Romantic vs. Sexual Attractions

[spittake]

Does anyone else experience a dichotomy of their romantic and sexual attractions in terms of the genders of the respective objects?

If that doesn't make sense, it probably isn't the case for you. I'd like to give more detail, but I'm kind of embarrassed, frankly.

Consider this my introduction to the GLBT board, which I did not see until yesterday. Glad to be here.

[louis]

Hey....

I will be back to answer after i hit the dictionary with that question :o)
Wanted to say hi and welcome you to the board anyway...
So Hi and welcome

be well
louis

[indigo]

Welcome from me too.

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by spittake

If that doesn't make sense, it probably isn't the case for you.

Or maybe I killed too many brain cells with booze...it's also early for me.


Hello, spittake!

[MCake]

Hi, Spittake.. IMHO The people who post here are very open-minded, I hope you'll experience this yourself... no need to be embarrassed

I think I know what you're saying... though I haven't experienced it myself... A friend of mine is sexually attracted to men, yet he's completely unable to build intimate connections with them - and he's always "in love" with one girl or another..

Sometimes I've become romantically fascinated by certain women, but I've never been sexually attracted to any of them. I'm very capable of bonding with men, though, either as friends or intimately... and I tend to prefer the company of men, to the point of (jokingly) being called sexist and chauvinist by my girl-friends. That's inaccurate, though. I absolutely love women... just not in *that* way

Anyway, I'm rambling as usual. I hope you can find more accurate answers... Welcome to GLBT

[freya]

Question: When you say "gender" do you really mean "gender" (as in man/woman and/or masculine/feminine) or do you mean "sex" (as in male/female)?

For me personally, I am attracted by a certain type of gender expression -- fairly masculine. When I was younger, the sex of the person (i.e. whether he/she was male or female) did not seem to be a very important factor. But as I've gotten older, I seem to be more and more exclusively attracted to butch females.

I have never been attracted (other than as far as friendship goes) to feminely presenting people of either sex.

And, for me, romantic interest defintely is connected to sexual attraction. I mean, I might not be romatically interested in everyone to whom I find myself attracted sexually, but I most certainly have never found myself romantically interested in someone to whom I was not sexually attracted.

freya

[MCake]

... I should add that labels such as "gay" - and the assumptions they imply- are dangerous and petty. So, though I do think it's highly unlikely, I don't rule out the possibility of someday becoming romantically *and* sexually attracted to (a?) woman.

Stranger things have happened

[spittake]

Originally Posted by freya

Question: When you say "gender" do you really mean "gender" (as in man/woman and/or masculine/feminine) or do you mean "sex" (as in male/female)?

Oops! I meant "sex." Sorry, force of habit. Though, I do have yet to find myself particularly attracted to a person whose sex and gender did not align in the conventional sense. (Even though I am one of those people that doesn't align too well, lol)

Originally Posted by mattcake79

I think I know what you're saying... though I haven't experienced it myself... A friend of mine is sexually attracted to men, yet he's completely unable to build intimate connections with them - and he's always "in love" with one girl or another..

Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't know why I should be embarrassed to elaborate, so I will.

I'm female. I definitely feel, more and more, that I am pretty well heterosexually wired. My biological drives are pretty damn orthodox . But, I have never in my life felt the least bit emotionally infatuated with a male. Because of this, I haven't enjoyed sexual contact with males, except in the most temporary, heat-of-the-moment way.

I do, however, find myself infatuated with women on a semi-regular basis. I have even fallen full-blown in love. In rare instances, like the aforementioned, I may find them sexually appealing, but it just doesn't awaken the primordial drive that hetero sex seems to. I always enjoy the physical affection aspect, it just doesn't fully cross over into lust. For now, I am satisfied to enjoy my private, fantasy and dream life and just call myself lesbian for the sake of brevity. But, I worry that I will not ever have the total package - the head-over-heels crush and the animal lust.

I was just wondering if anyone else was in this boat, because I never hear the two attractions separated when discussed. It's typically assumed that they are one and the same.

For me, the lack of overlap gets frustrating. At times, I feel like a fraud around my gay friends (and straight friends, for that matter).

Thanks for the warm welcome!

[MCake]

Well... I can see why you'd feel frustrated. It sounds like a confusing state. The good news is, you're being open about it, and honest with yourself... Hopefully the situation will sort itself out, given time. Have you considered therapy? There is a lot of literature, research and theories available on this matter, so working with a therapist might be very helpful.

Ramble:
In my experience, sexuality/attraction/lust/love/whatever are pretty fluid processes - a person's preferences can certainly change. In another post I mentioned that the overall "type" of guy I'm usually attracted to has changed quite a bit over time.

A more extreme situation is that of a guy I know who identified and felt 100% "hetero" until he reached his mid 40s, at which time his sexuality and feelings shifted quite radically. After some drama -identity crisis, he was married, had kids etc- he realised that he was no longer attracted to women, and accepted that he was, in fact, "gay" (like you, I'm using these labels for the sake of brevity). And I believe him when he says that this change took place quite abruptly - he wasn't in lifelong denial, in the closet, or anything like that. These changes do happen; statistically it's much more usual among women, although I have the sneaking suspicion that the numbers are inaccurate. So:

Paraphrasing () Freya ... labels are dangerous. Maybe you are a "lesbian", maybe not, but don't act accordingly... like, don't assume you're supposed to be attracted to women just because guys don't cut it for you right now (I'm not saying that's what you're doing). Going along with your feelings, disregarding preconceived expectations, without worrying about what form and direction your feelings and attraction will take... just being open about it could be a good approach.

Keep us posted!

[louis]

Hi...

I wanted to appologise if my first post seemed rude... and after re-reading it, it could have been taken that way.... i just didnt understand what you were asking (the language you used) so wanted to check it out before i posted...
I maybe should have asked you.... anyway..

I think i am getting the jist of what you are asking ....

When i was first trying to understand who it was i was sexually attracted to i found it very confusing... trying to sort out all my feelings romantic/sexually/emotionally... i found that personally there was no diference for me...
I have never been attracted to men... i dated because i was brought up that is what you were to do... but there was never any feelings there for me what so ever... not to demean anyone... i went through the motions...

When i first started to be attracted to women... bingo.... the whole package came together... i felt (this is gonna sound corny but) whole... and i dont mean that as in i need a woman to make me whole... but as in it FELT right....

Sorry i m probably making no sense and may still not understand your question... your question has been bothering me for a couple of days and i wanted to try and answer what i could... it interested me.

Again i wanted to welcome you to SR

be well
louis

[spittake]

Originally Posted by louis

When i first started to be attracted to women... bingo.... the whole package came together... i felt (this is gonna sound corny but) whole... and i dont mean that as in i need a woman to make me whole... but as in it FELT right....

Yes, this does make sense to me. I went through half of my adolescence wondering what the hell was the big deal about boys and crushes and dating and kissing, etc. It always felt like I was making out with my buddy (essentially, I was), and he was usually a bad kisser to boot!

Then I started to feel an intense attraction to girls, fantasizing about kissing and holding hands, and it clicked. The lulling pleasure, the desperate longing, the thrills, the butterflies in your stomach...it suddenly made sense why every one was so focused on this falling in love business. But I never daydreamed about having sex with them. That's the disconnect. I did spend a lot of time, er, mulling over heterosexual sex, however...and still do.

I'm really not that concerned about it. I feel like I have a pretty good handle on what's going on with me, so I'm not confused. I guess I just wish it was different than it is. I have seen the Pavlov effect in action many times over, so I believe this situation may eventually resolve itself. Still, I wonder if, when I finally experience a requited love, it will work out in all departments. (And I think I'm about to maybe land this super hot chick that I've had my eye on for a while )

Thank you for all the support, everyone. It's nice to be able to talk about this stuff.

[Faerie]

Hi all,

I'm female 27 and Bi, always have been.

For me, I fall in lust/love with the person not the gender.

My personal physical preference is feminine women and manly men.

The first time I made love was with a woman.

Since then I have been with quite a few women sexually but only had a serious relationship with one and she broke my heart.

Have been with many men too and been in many long term relationships with men. The last two have ended very badly. [as you would know if you have read the thread I started in newcomers]

Sadly, because of what I've been through, I think I will find it hard to trust a man again. Please don't get me wrong, I know there are kind, gentle, understanding men out there.

But I think when I am over my addiction and ready to look for love again it will be with a woman.

Spittake, good luck with your new girl, maybe she will be the one!

Much love to you all, really good thread.

Faerie xx

[spittake]

Originally Posted by Faerie

Have been with many men too and been in many long term relationships with men. The last two have ended very badly. [as you would know if you have read the thread I started in newcomers]

I did read that thread, and it broke my heart, which is something very difficult for anyone to accomplish, let alone a stranger.

Thank you for your very personal shares. I welcome all the concord I can get.

[otterbearcat]

Hi Spittake,

Im not sure I fully understand what

"I did spend a lot of time, er, mulling over heterosexual sex, however...and still do."

Is about.

Not trying to be insensitive or judge, but why do you think you are still mulling over heterosexual sex? Is about the the sex or something else?
Perhaps you are bi? Nothing wrong with that as far Im concerned.

I cant really say I KNOW where you are coming from, sorry.:sorry

Ive never been attracted to a guy in a romantic way. Knew from a yooung age that I was a lesbian.

That being said, hmmm, wasnt planning to say all this but,... I have slept with men and liked it. It was about sex for me, nothing more. I didnt question my sexual identity because I slept with men, I knew I was still a lesbian. My heart belongs to women. And it does feel hard wired.

Sorry you are having a rough time with all of this.

[spittake]

Originally Posted by otterbearcat

Hi Spittake,

Im not sure I fully understand what

"I did spend a lot of time, er, mulling over heterosexual sex, however...and still do."

Is about.

Not trying to be insensitive or judge, but why do you think you are still mulling over heterosexual sex? Is about the the sex or something else?
Perhaps you are bi? Nothing wrong with that as far Im concerned.

"Mulling" is my euphemism for fantasizing. Yes, I can definitely say I am bisexual. I even think, strictly sexually speaking, that I am solidly toward the hetero end of the spectrum. The thing that makes it not so clear-cut for me, is I don't enjoy the actual experience of sex with guys for various reasons which are logical and largely understood by me.

Originally Posted by otterbearcat

Ive never been attracted to a guy in a romantic way.

Me neither! That's exactly what this thread is about, how the romantic and sexual aspects of attraction can exist separately, and on the basis of gender/sex.

Originally Posted by otterbearcat

hmmm, wasnt planning to say all this but,... I have slept with men and liked it. It was about sex for me, nothing more. I didnt question my sexual identity because I slept with men, I knew I was still a lesbian. My heart belongs to women. And it does feel hard wired.

Thank you for being so open and candid about this. It does make me feel more comfortable talking about sexual matters (And why shouldn't we? It's only one of the most integral and natural parts of our humanhood!). I know I'm not the only "lesbian" who has these gradations; that's why I started this thread, to hear about similar experiences.

That's the main thing - I fall in love with women. I can say with 99% certainty that I will never fall in love with a guy. What frustrates me is that I do not feel an equal sexual attraction to women. That's not to say I don't ever feel it at all, but it's fairly rare. I just wish my sex drive was hardwired more homosexually than it is.

Originally Posted by otterbearcat

Sorry you are having a rough time with all of this.

Thank you! I get a little frustrated sometimes, but mostly I am cool with all of this. It's just the way it is, you know? And having people such as you talk with me honestly about their own complexities really makes me feel that I'm not a freak.

[freya]

spittake:

I guess the thing that stirkes me as potentially problematic about your situation is, if someday you want/hope to be in a long-term, committed life partnership (and maybe that's not someting you're interested in, in which case, of course, this is not an issue) what do you imagine that is going to have to look like and how do you imagine that is going to work for you -- and for the other person, too, of course?

Also, when you say that you have fallen "head over heels in love with women," but at the same time have not been hugely attracted to them on a sexual level, what exactly does that mean to you.......I mean, I guess I'm asking how is it different for you than a deeply intimate, intense friendship?

And, I do realize that I'm kinda goin' out on a limb with this next part, but it's something you might want to think about:

A few years ago when I was separated from my partner (due to her dry drunk), I was involved for several months with a Latino butch. Sexually, we were very compatible, and initially the sexual aspect of the relationship was friggin' amazing. But, as time went by, hir unacknowledged and unaddressed social, racial, and class issues, combined with, it turned out, a lot of internalized homophobia and sex-negativity in general, really started to take its toll on our relationship.

Basically, what it boiled down to was the fact that, on some not-totally-conscious level in hir mind, I was "too good" to be with hir and I was defintely way-too "white," too educated, too socially "above" hir, etc...etc.....etc.... for hir to "do to/with me sexually" what we actually both enjoyed doing.

Obviously, this is just a lesbian "version" of that age old problem of men wanting a "lady in the drawing room and a wh*re in the bedroom" and then, of course, of the difficulty many, many men have in accepting/reconciling the fact that the same woman can, in fact, be both.

So, with all of that intro -- the thing I'm getting at here is I'm wondering if somehow, on some level, you might possibly be harboring some ideas about or attitudes toward sex, and/or sexuality,and/or toward yourself, and or about "what women and men are" that interfere with your ability to want to be sexual with someone you love (emotionally and spiritually) -- respect, admire, adore and all that goes with that???? And I'm wondering, too, if that might somehow be related to the fact that, although you have sex with men, you don't really find it to be all that satisfying and fulfulling????

Sorry if I'm going over-board here...and obviously I don't know you at all, but this is what reading your last post brought up for me.

freya

[spittake]

Incredible post, freya; thank you! You gave me so much to think about. I certainly have had to work through sexual hangups - i.e. religious upbringing, physical abuse - and there's more work to be done. You really made me think about how little experience I actually have. It is the unknown that gives me hope.

It's so funny that I started this thread when I did. I've just become insanely attracted to this certain woman; I've never been this physically attracted to another human before. It turns out I have a very particular type of woman I want, I just didn't realize how intensely because I haven't had an opportunity like this before. I'm experiencing none of the usual difficulties with this woman. I'm so glad to be certain that this is possible for me.

[freya]

When I was an undergrad, there was this very nice guy I dated for awhile. He was grad student in Pastoral Counseling. Things between us seemed to be going pretty well, but we had been dating for over a month and, sexually, he was just moving very, very slowly......way too slowly for me! I was getting pretty frustrated, so I decided to talk to him about it.

His response was: "But I want you to know that I respect you."

To which I replied rather vehemently: "Please don't respect me that much!"

If I had been a little older and had thought about it a little more, my response probably would have been more along the lines of: "Well, if you really respect me, then you'd respect, accept, and appreciate me as the whole human being I am."

This "idea" that being sexual with someone is somehow disrespectful and somehow tarnishes that person and/or oneself and/or the relationship is just total messed-up b*llsh*t.

I mean, let's get real here: if people are self-aware and honest and open and real with each other, then sex is another mutually fulfilling way to connect and to celebrate the relationship....and if people are not self-aware and honest and open and real, then the problem with their relationship is that they are not self-aware and honest and open and real, not sex -- whether they are having it or not!

There's a really interesting sub-plot dealing with this in the Spike Lee film "Summer of Sam," and also a Tolstoy short story, "The Kreutzer Sonata," in which a man takes this nonsense to a very extreme and disturbing level.

Anyway, just a hodge-podge of thoughts this morning...good luck working all of this out, spittake!

freya

[MCake]

Originally Posted by spittake

It's so funny that I started this thread when I did. I've just become insanely attracted to this certain woman; I've never been this physically attracted to another human before. It turns out I have a very particular type of woman I want, I just didn't realize how intensely because I haven't had an opportunity like this before. I'm experiencing none of the usual difficulties with this woman. I'm so glad to be certain that this is possible for me.

Well, seems like we may have all missed the obvious answer to your original question: maybe you simply hadn't met the right person

[spittake]

Originally Posted by mattcake79

Well, seems like we may have all missed the obvious answer to your original question: maybe you simply hadn't met the right person

Yeah, I feel kinda foolish now for being so worried about it. I'm still a little worried, as I haven't actually hooked up with this person, so I don't know what might happen if I do. But I'm also excited about the unknowns. For the first time in my life (as of this week, lol), I feel like I'm now old enough to land the type of woman I've always wanted. I guess I thought I'd always have to settle for the peers who didn't really do it for me.

This proves that I don't need women as a collective sex/gender to do it for me. I just need one individual to rock my world. Hope abounds...

[MCake]

Originally Posted by spittake

Yeah, I feel kinda foolish now for being so worried about it. I'm still a little worried, as I haven't actually hooked up with this person, so I don't know what might happen if I do. But I'm also excited about the unknowns. For the first time in my life (as of this week, lol), I feel like I'm now old enough to land the type of woman I've always wanted. I guess I thought I'd always have to settle for the peers who didn't really do it for me.

This proves that I don't need women as a collective sex/gender to do it for me. I just need one individual to rock my world. Hope abounds...

Thanks, Spittake - as far as I'm concerned, this is nothing short of a message of hope LOL. Though I don't quite feel lonely at the moment, I can see it happening soon - I haven't been in a serious relationship for years.

Part of it is due to being basically unavailable, as I'm still in the process of getting back on my feet and gathering my bearings. And... also, it's been a while since I truly felt attracted to a guy (or woman for that matter,no surprises there) - on any level. I spent many years fooling around, settling for pseudo-relationships that, deep down, were not satisfying at all. I refuse to do that now, though.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack your thread. Good luck with your friend, keep us posted!