Hollow

[Bamboozle]

I know what I'm missing...I see it in other people everyday. I feel hollow inside...empty. To say it sucks is a gross understatement. The people who have the simplest things in life tend to be the happiest. These folks have others to hold, others to talk to…they have what they need for life satisfaction. I have none of that.

I’ve never had the chance to be in a relationship and make mistakes. You folks have already done that.

I've done everything else in life I care to do. I know what really matters to me...and anything and everything I do just passes the time. I have no real enjoyment for anything.

I’m not afraid to admit that I do need people…I do need social interaction. Nearly every single person on the planet needs that too, although they hate to admit it. Being “needy” is a so-called sign of weakness or is thought of as a mental problem. I don’t agree. Social interaction is as important as oxygen, food and water.


I'd trade off some of my better qualities to simply feel "normal". By "normal" I mean well-adjusted, not socially inept. Just like there is a difference between feeling depressed and actually being depressed, there is a difference between feeling anxious and being anxious. People who have social anxiety know what a debilitating condition it is. Anyone who’s never suffered from it cannot know what it’s like. I wish I could make this part of me disappear. I can only hope to manage it one day.


There are very few people who understand where I’m coming from. I hope they are out there and send me a PM. I’m flying this flag for them. And if there is anyone out there lurking right now and can identify with what I’m saying, at least know that you aren’t the only one.

[tears25]

I can identify with you.

I think the same about needing social interactions. unfortunately if im not to anxious to meet new people I do strange things to push them away, to test them cus i'm too afraid of getting hurt. and then those fleeting moments pass and you find yourself on your own again. in bed wandering why you can't just be happy. shut the curtains and pretend the world isn't spinning.

I often see people doing jobs like cleaning the streets or working in supermarkets and think they prob go home and watch tv sleep and maybe they have a family maybe they don't, if they dont how does that satisfy them? I want to know how they live this life happily and care free.

someone once told me intelligence is a valuable thing, but also debilitating. to see the world with so many unanswered questions...

You seem like an intelligent person, i wander if this is part of your problem too... and what leads us to drink and do drugs? to try numb our brains down from the over drive.

[Bamboozle]

Thanks for the response, tears.

Originally Posted by tears25

You seem like an intelligent person, i wander if this is part of your problem too... and what leads us to drink and do drugs? to try numb our brains down from the over drive.

I wouldn't say I'm intelligent...but I do think too much.

It's awfully hard to shut my brain off. My mind obsesses and analyzes endlessly. Alcohol calmed the storm. Now that I don't have drinking as an option...I'm doing the best I can. I hope things improve soon.

[tears25]

Originally Posted by Bamboozle

Thanks for the response, tears.





I wouldn't say I'm intelligent...but I do think too much.

It's awfully hard to shut my brain off. My mind obsesses and analyzes endlessly. Alcohol calmed the storm. Now that I don't have drinking as an option...I'm doing the best I can. I hope things improve soon.

yup, i'll share that boat with ya!

[GoldenGutters]

The hardest thing I had to learn in sobriety was how to interact with other people. I always felt so exposed, and I was so self conscience, and I beat myself up mercilessly every time I made the slightest mistake...real or imaginary...that I had a tendency to sit in the corner and watch everyone else. And then I got involved. I volunteered to read 'How it works' at the beginning of meetings, I took on service commitments, and I attended and actively participated in business meetings. I met my parner of 10+ years because I was the secretary at a meeting.

The change you seek will NOT happen unless you face your insecurities head on and make it happen.

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by GoldenGutters

The change you seek will NOT happen unless you face your insecurities head on and make it happen.

I don't know where to start.

[FightingIrish]

Maybe surrender the job of trying to figure it out for awhile?

Before I got really into this program, I used to be so self-centered that I thought everyone was constantly thinking bad things about me and evaluating every little shortcoming.

The truth is, most people (like me) are too busy thinking about themselves. I'm really not that important.

M

Originally Posted by Bamboozle

I don't know where to start.

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by FightingIrish

Maybe surrender the job of trying to figure it out for awhile?

Before I got really into this program, I used to be so self-centered that I thought everyone was constantly thinking bad things about me and evaluating every little shortcoming.

The truth is, most people (like me) are too busy thinking about themselves. I'm really not that important.

M

Huh?

[FightingIrish]

I used to feel awkward around people unless I was drinking. I realize now that awkwardness is a preoccupation with self..."what is he/she thinking about me?", "what do I look like?", "did that sound weird?", "what is the right thing for me to say here?", etc., etc.

[utopia]

I used to feel the way you spoke in your first post, especially the feelings of emptiness, I've learnt that this helped me and hope it helps you, this just how it worked for me......

Go to as many meetings as possible.

Go to AA and Alanon for they are both sister fellowships for the same FAMILY dis-ease

Buy Conference approved literature

Read recovery literature every day

Make sure to get enough sleep and food each day. self care. this is hard work!

Pray. Be honest when you pray. Some of my prayers are swearing and screaming at God. I belive "God" loves honesty more than airy fairy prayers of no substance.

Look at the steps. work at the first 3 every day. Depression is usually anger turned inwards. Workng the steps with a sponsor helped me find a lot of my feelings and rage and resentments, made me aware of my values and this fills the emptiness (step 4).


As for the other people who seem to have everything Ive learnt to not judge others outsides by m insides. I can never really know what another life is like...as well as recvoery professional help can assist.

I dont believe in normal but I do believe recovery can help you be happy joyous at times and free. free from the mental attitudes, beliefs and understandings that can be warped by alcoholism into ones that do not help us.

I wish you well. peace.

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by utopia

Pray. Be honest when you pray. Some of my prayers are swearing and screaming at God. I belive "God" loves honesty more than airy fairy prayers of no substance.

I'm an atheist.


Not to get off-topic here, but AA is not a part of my recovery. SR, therapy, going for walks and picture taking is what I do. Oh, yeah, and smoking cigarettes. Gotta have those right now.


I still don't know where to start. The only thing I'm doing right now is getting some exercise and changing my eating habits. But those things don't involve interacting with people. Even if I can lose the weight that I need to lose (not just for vanity's sake...but more importantly to dodge the diabetes bullet...yeah, and before anyone says it I know smoking is bad, but one thing at a time...I'll quit eventually ), I still need to know what to do. I'm lost.

How do I build confidence/self-esteem when I've never had it? I've been this way ever since I was wee little. It's just the way I am. How do I go against the grain? I don't have any experiences (at least that I'm aware of) that I can look to for guidance. It's like asking someone visually blind to see. Ah...I think I'll start a new thread in Newcomers to get some more exposure...

[Draysin]

Thanks for flying that flag, Bam.

I relate to what you say....down to the last word.

If I can get over my writing PM phobia, I'll drop you a PM.

[utopia]

Originally Posted by Bamboozle

....those things don't involve interacting with people. Even if I can lose the weight that I need to lose (not just for vanity's sake...but more importantly to dodge the diabetes bullet...yeah, and before anyone says it I know smoking is bad, but one thing at a time...I'll quit eventually ), I still need to know what to do. I'm lost.

...

well I know for me that trust and all that comes with it never comes from reading a book however inspired but from experiencing trust in relationships with others and havinga relationship with a power greater than myself, whatever I choose that to be.

[utopia]

also there are many atheists in recovery just as there are not...AA is for those who wish to stop drinking, perhaps this is not your issue. perhaps alanon or another 12 step group can help. reach out. they suggest to try 6 meetings before making up your mind and to try meetings in diff locations. this is where you can start. if you try what youve always done then you will get what youve always got. all the best

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by utopia

also there are many atheists in recovery just as there are not...AA is for those who wish to stop drinking, perhaps this is not your issue. perhaps alanon or another 12 step group can help. reach out. they suggest to try 6 meetings before making up your mind and to try meetings in diff locations. this is where you can start. if you try what youve always done then you will get what youve always got. all the best

I'm not trying to be rude, but this is not up for discussion. I do not do groups. I have major issues with people wanting me to think and behave a certain way. I will not do it. I will not compromise who I am. I already spent most of my life doing that. Never again.

[otterbearcat]

Bam,

Have you considered SMART online meetings ?
It wouldnt be in person...

Or f2f if there is one in your area?


I have only been to 2. I have serious social anxiety, I could have went to a f2f last night but didnt bc this is a diff group at a diff location and I figured there would be way more people than I could handle bc it was a friday eve (one person is usually what I can handle btw).

My first SMART f2f, I was the only one there, and the 2nd there was one other person and he was new.

I got lucky, I feel lucky.

But if f2f is an option, maybe you would end up in a small group too.

But most importantly I didnt feel judged or like I was being told what to do...

I feel like these meetings serve a double purpose, dealing w/ my drinking and social anxiety.

Im agnostic, I dont do AA.

[otterbearcat]

The change you seek will NOT happen unless you face your insecurities head on and make it happen.[/QUOTE]


Thanks for that, Golden

[freya]

Bam: You wrote in your OP: "I'd trade off some of my better qualities to simply feel 'normal'."

If that is not a majorly huge offer of compromise, I can't imagine what would be.

In another thread you recently stated that, without a relationship (of the romantic/sexual variety) in your life, you don't want to go on living and that everything else you do is your life is just a sad substitute for (what you imagine) such a relationship would be and would bring you.

Does any of this honestly sound to you like the thinking, feeling or writing of someone who truly knows, values, and is unwilling to compromise herself?

So, you don't want people to share with you what has worked for them, if what has worked for them happens to be in any way related to the 12 Steps. Well, that's fine. You are obviously free to want what you want, just as, on a public forum, others are also obviously free to share what has worked for them when dealing with the issues that you have brought up for discussion here. But trying to justify your aversion to such programs by pretending that they somehow require you to compromise yourself or to to conform to other members' ideas about who and how you should be, not only reveals either an incredible ignorance or a willful misrepresentation of the true principles and goals of such programs (and of the healing that many have gotten through working them), but also a frightening lack of awareness of your own current writing and behavior.

And I do have to say that starting a discussion on a recovery site and then trying to manipulate or guilt those who choose to participate into saying only what you want to hear is probably, not only futile, but also extremely naive -- unless, of course, it is your unacknowledged (perhaps even to yourself) goal to set up a situation that you can use to support your feelings of victimization and of being misunderstood.

freya

...and, BTW, "being needy" and "having needs" are 2 very different states of being. True, we all have needs. However, "needy" people choose to allow their needs -- and the things they lack as opposed to the blessings they have -- to define and control them.

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by freya

You are obviously free to want what you want, just as, on a public forum, others are also obviously free to share what has worked for them when dealing with the issues that you have brought up for discussion here. But trying to justify your aversion to such programs by pretending that they somehow require you to compromise yourself or to to conform to other members' ideas about who and how you should be, [B]not only reveals either an incredible ignorance or a willful misrepresentation of the true principles and goals of such programs (and of the healing that many have gotten through working them), but also a frightening lack of awareness of your own current writing and behavior.[/B]

I do not like dogma and I care nothing for it. I have an aversion to group think and group speak. If others find something in 12-step groups that works for them, good for them, but it is not for me. What about my opinion is so difficult for you to comprehend?

I don't understand why you had to resort to personal attacks by calling me ignorant. I've received nothing but vitriol from you.

Originally Posted by freya

And I do have to say that starting a discussion on a recovery site and then trying to manipulate or guilt those who choose to participate into saying only what you want to hear is probably, not only futile, but also extremely naive -- unless, of course, it is your unacknowledged (perhaps even to yourself) goal to set up a situation that you can use to support your feelings of victimization and of being misunderstood.

I'm looking for people to relate to who understand where I'm coming from. Obviously, there are hardly any people who do understand. I've already received a couple of PM's from some friendly folks directly concerning this thread, and that was what I was hoping for.

I fail to see the guilt trip you are accusing me of. I fail to see the manipulation.

I’m looking for understanding. I’m looking to converse with people who actually know what I’m talking about and have made it through it or are in the process of finding their own way through this. This is obviously something you know absolutely nothing about, so your input is of no value to me.

freya

Originally Posted by freya

...and, BTW, "being needy" and "having needs" are 2 very different states of being. True, we all have needs. However, "needy" people choose to allow their needs -- and the things they lack as opposed to the blessings they have -- to define and control them.

Needs are needs, not wants. I think what you are talking about are people who want

Relationships are necessary to live well. I suppose I could just be grateful for my shelter, clothing, food, and job and leave it at that. What’s the point? I don’t care to merely survive. I deserve the same things everyone else enjoys.


Freya, you have a choice. You can continue your attacks or you can ignore what I have to say.

I'd prefer you go bully someone else.

[freya]

First off, if you want to suddenly now start using a rigorously technical definition of "needs," then that only refers to the things that we would die without -- air, water, food, shelter from the elements...and that would mean literally, physically die, not "want to die" or "intend to die."

And, under such a rigorous definition, a "relationship" is not a need. And all that is necessary to prove that is the fact that you have lived as long as you have without one (as you yourself stated in an earlier thread) and that many, many people live even longer and much happier without them. When you have posted about the topic, here and elsewhere, and referred to a relationship as a "need," you clearly were not going by that definition, and trying to "switch" the definition in the middle of the discussion in order to better make your point is intellectually dishonest, and I'm not falling for it or letting it slide......because, after all, I am a bully (actually I much prefer b*tch, but "bully" will do if that's the best you can come up!) or a pushover, for that matter. LOL!

This thread is entitled "Hollow." In it you talk quite a bit about your lack of self-esteem and confidence and the fact that (you believe that) the only thing that is going to fill up your hollowness is an intimate partnership with another person. You also asked for people who understand your feelings to contact you and support you and for suggestions from them on how to build your self-esteem.

Several people have responded, some at length. Most of those who have had more to offer than "sympathy" have told you that they have been where you are at and that they have found "a way out" through working the 12 Steps -- both in secular recovery and in more traditional programs. You responded with a refusal to even discuss/consider that and then went on to say: "I have major issues with people wanting me to think and behave a certain way. I will not do it. I will not compromise who I am."

Now, clearly you are not a stupid and totally incompetent writer, so when you write that in the context in which you wrote it, it follows logically that you are saying that it is the purpose of 12 Step programs to make people act and behave a certain way and to compromise who they really are. That is not presenting an opinion; that is stating a fact. An opinion might read: "I am uncomfortable in groups and I always feel like I am being pressured to compromise myself and conform to some "idea" of myself that the other members have or to be someone the other members want to be."

If you had indeed stated an opinion, then obviously, it would be both stupid and pointless for anyone to say that that can't be your opinion. But that is not what you did, and that is not what I said. You made a statement of fact that is not only untrue about the purpose and goals of 12 Step programs, but that is, in fact, the exact opposite of what such programs ideally seek to do. You made that statement after several people have specifically stated that and how such programs have helped them (thereby implying that those people are either brainwashed "conformists," totally lacking in personal integrity, or outright liars), and you made it on a public forum on which you are well aware that many people owe their lives, literally, to such programs.

And you expect any sane person to believe that you did not know perfectly well that you were likely to get some hard push-back on that? Even after you have done exactly the same thing on multiple other threads in the past and have gotten exactly the same result? And that's not a manipulative set-up?

So, on to the whole "understanding and sympathy" thing. Like I said, several people have responded here, said that they totally get where you're coming from, have been there themselves and have gotten out through the 12 Steps. Those who have been able to relate and who are still in that oppressed/depressed, self-loathing place have not given you any concrete ideas, proven over the long-term by their own experience, about how to get out of that place.

This, if memory serves me correctly, is how it pretty much always plays out on your threads like this. So, it seems like you have pretty clear choice here: Stay stuck and "support" your stuckness with the sweet-misery-she-likes-her-company "sympathy and understanding" of others who are stuck exactly where you are or start to make even a remedial attempt to listen to those who have been there and have escaped.

You are absolutely right, the choice is yours.

And, as you say, it is my choice as to whether or not I continue to engage with you. Just for future reference, here's how I make those decisions:

If someone is talking about something that is somewhat interesting to me but I know or have the sense that s/he not coming from a very unhealthy, place, I will often (depending on my mood, my time, what else is going on, and what forum s/he is posting in -- I tend to avoid those forums where enabling "support and sympathy" is the norm) post once to that thread, especially if s/he is writing things that are obviously internally contradictory or untrue. If s/he over-reacts and/or misreads what I've said -- as is usually the case -- I will go another round to clarify. Beyond that, unless the issue is somehow directly related to me personally, I cease and desist, otherwise, I would become a nag -- or a bully, if you like -- and also cross the line to codependency and enabling. So yeah, I had read this thread, as it is in a forum in which I post often, but, as we had just began to discuss this earlier and you bailed, did not post to it until you started in on blatant misrepresentation of 12 Step programs and outright refusal to listen to people who were sharing with you exactly what you asked for -- an understanding of where you are and a way to get out of there. And this is my second post here, so I'll be done and gone right after this:

You bailed from that earlier thread right after I had asked you if you had shared with your therapist your feelings/thoughts about needing someone else to make you happy and whole and "not wanting to live" if you couldn't find such a relationship. Well, not because I'm a bully, but because I really am concerned about your life and health, I am going to say that again here...and I'll even up the ante....You print what you've written in these last few threads and take it to your therapist. Find out what she says about your plan to make yourself full and whole and happy by finding a lover. Find out what she says about your wanting not to live if you can't get that relationship.

If she approves of that plan and says it sounds like a great plan with a high probability of long-term success, I will publically admit, not only to being a bully, but to having been 100% wrong about everything I written here and write an apology to you.

I wish you wholeness and happiness -- from the inside out!

freya

BTW....To say someone is "ignorant" about something is to say that they do not know anything about it. For example, I personally am ignorant, totally ignorant, of nuclear physics. That is not a self-deprecating slam; it is a simple statement of fact. We are all ignorant about many, many things.

[Bamboozle]

Oh my goodness, freya...can you please be more concise next time? It's going to take me about three hours to plow through your post.

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by freya

First off, if you want to suddenly now start using a rigorously technical definition of "needs," then that only refers to the things that we would die without -- air, water, food, shelter from the elements...and that would mean literally, physically die, not "want to die" or "intend to die."

That is called survival. I don’t wish to merely survive, mmmkay?

Originally Posted by freya

And, under such a rigorous definition, a "relationship" is not a need. And all that is necessary to prove that is the fact that you have lived as long as you have without one (as you yourself stated in an earlier thread) and that many, many people live even longer and much happier without them.

I am not happy. Good for the people who are perfectly happy being alone. I am not them.

Lack of relationships = pervasive suicidal thoughts...and sometimes pervasive suicidal thoughts leads to not surviving. Hmm.

Originally Posted by freya

When you have posted about the topic, here and elsewhere, and referred to a relationship as a "need," you clearly were not going by that definition, and trying to "switch" the definition in the middle of the discussion in order to better make your point is intellectually dishonest, and I'm not falling for it or letting it slide......because, after all, I am a bully (actually I much prefer b*tch, but "bully" will do if that's the best you can come up!) or a pushover, for that matter. LOL!

Where was I pulling a bait and switch? Huh? I made it very clear that in order for ME (see that? Me, me, ME!) to continue to live I need relationships. Do you understand what severe depression can do to anyone? Are you familiar with the phrase “suicidal ideations”?

By the way, "bully" is not the best I can come up with. I’m being exceedingly polite.

Originally Posted by freya

This thread is entitled "Hollow." In it you talk quite a bit about your lack of self-esteem and confidence and the fact that (you believe that) the only thing that is going to fill up your hollowness is an intimate partnership with another person. You also asked for people who understand your feelings to contact you and support you and for suggestions from them on how to build your self-esteem.

Uh-huh. So far so good…

Originally Posted by freya

Several people have responded, some at length. Most of those who have had more to offer than "sympathy" have told you that they have been where you are at and that they have found "a way out" through working the 12 Steps -- both in secular recovery and in more traditional programs. You responded with a refusal to even discuss/consider that and then went on to say: "I have major issues with people wanting me to think and behave a certain way. I will not do it. I will not compromise who I am."

Uh-huh.

Originally Posted by freya

Now, clearly you are not a stupid and totally incompetent writer, so when you write that in the context in which you wrote it, it follows logically that you are saying that it is the purpose of 12 Step programs to make people act and behave a certain way and to compromise who they really are. That is not presenting an opinion; that is stating a fact. An opinion might read: "I am uncomfortable in groups and I always feel like I am being pressured to compromise myself and conform to some "idea" of myself that the other members have or to be someone the other members want to be."

If you had indeed stated an opinion, then obviously, it would be both stupid and pointless for anyone to say that that can't be your opinion. But that is not what you did, and that is not what I said. You made a statement of fact that is not only untrue about the purpose and goals of 12 Step programs, but that is, in fact, the exact opposite of what such programs ideally seek to do. You made that statement after several people have specifically stated that and how such programs have helped them (thereby implying that those people are either brainwashed "conformists," totally lacking in personal integrity, or outright liars), and you made it on a public forum on which you are well aware that many people owe their lives, literally, to such programs.

Originally Posted by Bamboozle

I do not like dogma and I care nothing for it. I have an aversion to group think and group speak. If others find something in 12-step groups that works for them, good for them, but it is not for me. What about my opinion is so difficult for you to comprehend?

12-step groups have helped a lot of people. Again, good for the people who’ve found that it works for them. I understand that this approach works for many people. What some do not understand, however, is that not everyone can benefit from this method.

12-step groups are religious in nature. The concept of appealing and giving up to a “higher power” and a focus on “spirituality” is evidence of this. As an atheist, there is no way these groups can help me.

Besides, aren’t these groups supposed to be about attraction rather than promotion? I do not go around and tell 12-step people to drop their programs and join me on the secular (dark) side.

And I have a really hard time understanding what low self-esteem has to do with 12-step groups. I’ve had this problem all of my life…long before alcohol came into the picture. Should I have joined a 12-step group when I was 8 years old?

Perhaps I should restrict all of my posts to the Secular Connections and Mental Health sections. I deliberately posted this thread here because I wanted help from BiGLTQ folks…and many BiGLTQ folks do not frequent the secular side.

Originally Posted by freya

And you expect any sane person to believe that you did not know perfectly well that you were likely to get some hard push-back on that? Even after you have done exactly the same thing on multiple other threads in the past and have gotten exactly the same result? And that's not a manipulative set-up?

Are you following my threads?

I think someone likes me!

Originally Posted by freya

So, on to the whole "understanding and sympathy" thing. Like I said, several people have responded here, said that they totally get where you're coming from, have been there themselves and have gotten out through the 12 Steps. Those who have been able to relate and who are still in that oppressed/depressed, self-loathing place have not given you any concrete ideas, proven over the long-term by their own experience, about how to get out of that place.

So, basically you are implying that non-12-steppers are stuck where they are because they don’t do 12-step groups. I don’t buy it.

Originally Posted by freya

This, if memory serves me correctly, is how it pretty much always plays out on your threads like this.

Yes, you do like me!

Originally Posted by freya

So, it seems like you have pretty clear choice here: Stay stuck and "support" your stuckness with the sweet-misery-she-likes-her-company "sympathy and understanding" of others who are stuck exactly where you are or start to make even a remedial attempt to listen to those who have been there and have escaped.

You are absolutely right, the choice is yours.

Are you taking my inventory?

If I had a desire to stay stuck I wouldn’t bother posting these threads.

Originally Posted by freya

And, as you say, it is my choice as to whether or not I continue to engage with you. Just for future reference, here's how I make those decisions:

If someone is talking about something that is somewhat interesting to me but I know or have the sense that s/he not coming from a very unhealthy, place, I will often (depending on my mood, my time, what else is going on, and what forum s/he is posting in -- I tend to avoid those forums where enabling "support and sympathy" is the norm) post once to that thread, especially if s/he is writing things that are obviously internally contradictory or untrue. If s/he over-reacts and/or misreads what I've said -- as is usually the case -- I will go another round to clarify. Beyond that, unless the issue is somehow directly related to me personally, I cease and desist, otherwise, I would become a nag -- or a bully, if you like -- and also cross the line to codependency and enabling. So yeah, I had read this thread, as it is in a forum in which I post often, but, as we had just began to discuss this earlier and you bailed, did not post to it until you started in on blatant misrepresentation of 12 Step programs and outright refusal to listen to people who were sharing with you exactly what you asked for -- an understanding of where you are and a way to get out of there. And this is my second post here, so I'll be done and gone right after this:



You bailed from that earlier thread right after I had asked you if you had shared with your therapist your feelings/thoughts about needing someone else to make you happy and whole and "not wanting to live" if you couldn't find such a relationship. Well, not because I'm a bully, but because I really am concerned about your life and health, I am going to say that again here...and I'll even up the ante....You print what you've written in these last few threads and take it to your therapist. Find out what she says about your plan to make yourself full and whole and happy by finding a lover. Find out what she says about your wanting not to live if you can't get that relationship.

Freya, I’m on every-other-week sessions right now. I haven’t had a chance to talk to her yet and much of what is going on with me lately is quite sudden. If you've never been on the extreme roller coaster ride you cannot possibly understand where I'm coming from.

Originally Posted by freya

If she approves of that plan and says it sounds like a great plan with a high probability of long-term success, I will publically admit, not only to being a bully, but to having been 100% wrong about everything I written here and write an apology to you.

Come on…no rational therapist condones suicide and you know it. You wouldn’t apologize to me, anyways…you’re too narcissistic for that. How’s that for name-calling!

If anything, she’ll fully realize how badly off I am and work with me on my self-esteem and confidence issues so that I can get what I need.

Originally Posted by freya

I wish you wholeness and happiness -- from the inside out!

I do appreciate sarcasm. Thanks.

Originally Posted by freya

BTW....To say someone is "ignorant" about something is to say that they do not know anything about it. For example, I personally am ignorant, totally ignorant, of nuclear physics. That is not a self-deprecating slam; it is a simple statement of fact. We are all ignorant about many, many things.

You’re wrong. I do know about 12-step groups. I’ve read a lot about these programs at SR and elsewhere on the internets, so you are being disingenuous or gravely mistaken.

Let me put it this way:

I don’t have to stick my hand unprotected into a vat of extremely hot oil to know that by doing so I will severely burn said hand.

It doesn’t work for me (groups) so I won’t work it.

I am in the process of finding my way through and out of this mess. I don’t need groups to do this. I do need therapy, though, and fortunately therapy involves my input greatly.


Wow, that took way too long.

[GoldenGutters]

I never did give anybody hell; I just told the truth and they thought it was hell. -- Harry S. Truman

[freya]

Originally Posted by GoldenGutters

I never did give anybody hell; I just told the truth and they thought it was hell. -- Harry S. Truman

OMG, and GG just comes to rescue out of nowhere and knocks one right out of the park! That is just too perfect!.......and even moreso since I wasn't the one to point it out. LMAO here!

freya

[utopia]

wow this thread has become charged...theres gross judgement and ignorance here but as this is a "recovery" website that refers to the 12 steps so therell be a lot of that. im not posting again because i feel theres toxic energy and its falling on deaf ears. its not a religious program at all but a spiritual one. feel free to keep trashing it because it ill help noone. being "right" will just further isolate yourself....those that seek health and wholeness through recovery (the purpose of this website) will keep seeking and find it. peace out.