Gay Parents Raising Gay Children

[backporchpoet]

I have a question for anyone that has an opinion.

I am a lesbian. I've been out since I was 14. Long story short, ended up having a son at the age of 22. Now, I am very butch. Not overweight, shaved head butch...I just look like a male model out of an American Eagle catalog haha. My partner is more feminine than me, but not extremely girly in any way. My son has never been exposed to make-up, jewelry, or skirts and dresses. At least not in my home.

About a year ago, my sisters came over and we all watched Sleeping Beauty, my son included. He was about 2 at the time. Little by little, he began asking me for pink dresses, and purses, and make-up. Over the past year, he has become obsessed with princess things. He is asking to grow his hair out, he wears big t-shirts around the house insisting they are dresses, and his once boy-ish room is now covered in princess posters and pages ripped from a princess coloring book that he has taped onto his wall. He likes strawberry ice cream and strawberry milk, just because they are pink. He owns about 4 or 5 barbies that he takes everywhere with him.

And every night he dances for about 2 or 3 hours to "Single Ladies" by Beyonce and "Love Story" by Taylor Swift....and the Taylor Swift song he has insisted is he favorite because she has a line in it where she says "You be the Prince and I'll be the Princess". Now, I took dance classes for 12 years growing up. I thoroughly enjoyed tap and jazz but as part of the requirement to compete, I had to take ballet. I HATED ballet. I COULD NOT make my body move so gracefully no matter how hard I tried. Now, my son dances ever so gracefully, fluttering around the family room with his "dress" on and the movements he can do with his body at 3 are beyond feminine.

I understand that some little boys go through a princess phase or dabble in things that we assume girls would typically like. But this has been going on for about a year now and he has become increasingly interested in princess paraphernalia.

I am a firm believer that people are born gay. I know it's too early to label my son, but clearly I wouldn't have a problem with him if he turned out to be gay, even though I hope for his sake he isn't.

I guess my worry is that I feel that there is a stereotype out there in society that gay parents will raise gay children. I mean, I could understand if my son saw me wearing dresses and wanted to be like Mommy, but that's not the case. He is not attempting to imitate me in any way. So I have no idea where this obsession with princess things is coming from unless it's truly what he find enjoyable.

Do you think I should continue to let my son indulge in his princess desires? Half hearted attempts to lure him into the world of GI Joes and Lightning McQueen have failed miserably. Do you think if he turns out to be gay, he might turn around and blame me for letting him have a few barbies as a kid or that people will think I "forced" homosexuality on him?

[indigo]

People will always have some opinion or another, you know you didn't and can't force a person's sexuality on them. He will be what he will be and hopefully happy. My partner and I have 4 children one used to dress up in girls things and is still quite camp but hetero. Don't mind what others say he is your son and he is loved for whoever he becomes.

[RayRayRay]

I am not a parent. But I am a lesbian and it was always obvious - I hated dresses, wouldn't have anything pink, never grew out of that boys-are-icky stage. My parents, as open as they are, would force me to wear dresses and bought me barbies because that is what I should've wanted.

My brother who happily took all the barbies I wouldn't play with, wore my mom's high heels and purses whenever he could, grew his hair long, was always hetero. There is no doubt in his mind - he likes girls.

The stereotype of gender roles does not have to play a part in sexuality.

What matters is that you give him the space to be who he wants and let him be happy. If being a princess makes him happy, don't take that away from him.

[justanothrdrunk]

My wife and I have a son - he's three. We have very traditional roles around the house. I work. She stays home. This is all by choice and not because (I hope!) I'm supposed to be the MAN of the house or something.

Our little guy is very into his stuffed animals. He has a boatload of them. I was never into stuffed toys when I was little. For whatever reason, all of them are female. He gives them girls names and refers to them all as "she." When anyone calls one of them "he," my son will correct them. It's a SHE!

My first instinct about this behavior was that he's either gay or super-mega-ultra hetero (because he wants to surround himself with women all the time).

In reality, it's more likely that it's because he's three and lots of things little tots do or don't do doesn't necessarily mean anything one way or another. One thing I've learned with my three year old is that just about everything is a phase. Sooner or later (and usually very abruptly) one behavior or another will cease and that will be the end. And on comes a new behavior or routine.

To me, that's just what kids do. I'll drive myself crazy trying to analize every decision he makes. But lots of the time I can't help it. Parenting can drive you nuts like that sometimes.

[mattcake79]

I agree with all the posts so far, and I can see where you're coming from. Stereotypes are tricky, and phases do pass. When I was 4, I had several "girlfriends" that I apparently courted incessantly, and never in my life have I played with dolls. My folks were in disbelief when I told them I was gay. In fact, my mother *still* likes to remind me of the baffling era when I chased girls around for a kiss. Fact is, we are unpredictable. Imagine, what if your son liked to play with machine guns and knives?

For what it's worth, I used to resent my parents for the stuff they didn't allow me to do or forced me to do, not for the things they let me get away with. I have since realized that they did the very best they could, and love them for it. In the future, if your son were to resent you for letting him play with pink stuff, you can just tell him that he sure seemed to enjoy it

And here is something I wished ALL parents realized: yes, our surroundings and our genetic makeup probably do influence us during our formative years and beyond. But we are also our own individuals. Some people are all too fond of quickly assuming that the characteristics they like in their kids came from them, and that the traits they dislike came from the other parent - how egotistic is that!? The same goes for people who "blame" their unwanted characteristics on their parents.

We are not a predictable half+half product of genes and influences and conditioning. I believe that we were all born with a soul that is individual and ours only, and that it manifests in its own unique way.

[SoberforME]

Originally Posted by backporchpoet

I have a question for anyone that has an opinion.

I am a lesbian. I've been out since I was 14. Long story short, ended up having a son at the age of 22. Now, I am very butch. Not overweight, shaved head butch...I just look like a male model out of an American Eagle catalog haha.


Do you think if he turns out to be gay, he might turn around and blame me for letting him have a few barbies as a kid or that people will think I "forced" homosexuality on him?

I came out at 14 as well!!

I am femme. I mean like really super stealth lesbian femme. I started in on high heels and make-up in the 3rd grade. I'm also gay (surprise Mom!).

No one could have changed those things for me. Ever. (believe me I tried being butch when I first came out. Yeah. No. )

If you try to make him more masculine than he is, he is just going to resent you down the line. I wouldn't care about what others think and more about what my son grows up as. Do you want him to feel shame, even if he's Judy garland and Rupaul in one?

People are born gay. You can't "teach" him to be gay,anymore than you could force him to be straight if he's not.


(although I'm bias he sounds so damned cute!!)

[Eroica]

I havent seen any study that suggests lesbian couples are more likely to have children who grow up to be gay. And I dont think people will think you're forcing him to act "gay", especially if they see you with him on a regular basis. Its not like he's saying "mommy is making me do this" lol

[mattcake79]

Originally Posted by mattcake79

Fact is, we are unpredictable. Imagine, what if your son liked to play with machine guns and knives?

(Couldn't edit so, in a nutshell)What would you assume then?

I don't think that you should assume he is gay just because he likes to play with dolls etc. That's hardly an indicator of anything. Labels are never a good idea - and especially not when it comes to young kids. You'll know his orientation for sure once *he* figures it out and tells you In the meantime, maybe you should just keep giving him the freedom to express himself as he chooses

[freya]

Well, it sounds to me from what you've written that there might be some chance your son is transgendered (and I do mean "transgendered" as in "gender-nonconforming," not transsexual) -- whether or not that means he's gay, you'll probably have to wait a few more years, since gender non-conformity is not a reliable indicator of sexual preference.

However, I will tell you that my youngest son -- who is gay -- also did all of the things you've written about with your son (The Harmonia Garden scene from Hello Dolly was his favorite!) and although he did end up being gay, he's not anywhere near as gender-nonconforming as he was as a child. Not that it matters one way or the other, but that's just how it's been so far with him.

When he was little and he wanted to wear certain things, like women's jewelry, to school, my approach was always to talk to him about it (the pros and the cons) honestly and let him make up his own mind. My brother and my older son once tried to get him into the world of GI Joe's and aliens -- and while they we're preoccupied with a big battle, he decorated their GI Joe headquarters for a tea-party and then came out and announced to them all (GI Joes and Aliens alike)that it was time for them all to stop fighting and come have tea!

You know, people are who they are, and as parents we have a deep moral responsibility to nurture and support our children in finding out, expressing and celebrating who they are -- and in loving them and valuing them and protecting them unconditionally while they do so.

As far as the "gay parents raise gay children" thing, I'm sorry, but that's just stupid -- and who the h*ll cares what people who are ignorant enough to believe crap like that believe anyways????? Seriously, I'm not really at all sure why you would even give a thought to what such ignorant people think -- nothing you do will make people like that happy or keep them from thinking whatever BS they want to think....and what are you gonna do about it anyway???? Try to keep your son from being gay if that's who he decides he is???? I don't think so.

Actually, my guess is that kids who are raised in open-minded homes -- of any variety -- are just more likely to experiment with things and to come out more comfortably at a younger age because it's safe for them to do so and they do get a chance to see that they have options in life beyond compulsory heterosexuality.

freya

......and, BTW, I can't end without commenting on these remarks of yours, BPP: "Now, I am very butch. Not overweight, shaved head butch...I just look like a male model out of an American Eagle" What, exactly, is wrong with shaved-head butches who are "overweight" by our anorexic cultural standards????? I happen to like shaved-head butches and have dated quite a few in my time -- Also, I personally like a butch who takes up a little space and looks like she could throw me on the floor and have her way with me if that's what she decided she wanted to do. Furthermore, if I wanted to date someone who looked like a model out of the American Eagle catalogue, I'd date a gay gym-boy (well, probably not, because a gay gym-boy would probably not date me...but, you get my point!)....I know I sound p*ssy here, because I am -- I hate to "hear" lesbians mouthing this kind of assimilationist, looksist, BS...like we don't get enough of that from the mainstream media!

[sct]

Just... as an opposing viewpoint. I am, and always have been, very butch. One of the few positive memories when I was a kid, was helping my dad work on his truck when I was about five years old, picking out tools and holding the flashlight. I've never worn makeup (that I can remember, I do have some foggy spots in my memory) I'm still very stereotypically masculine. I have also known I was gay since I was 11, possibly even before that.

[indigo]

Well my parents where both het and my sister and brother too and they didn't force me to be the lesbian one lol so it works both ways ..the majority of us come from straight parents.

[least]

As long as you are raising your son with love and reasonable limits, I wouldn't worry too much. And if he's happy with himself and his life, that's the best you can hope for. I've raised four girls, and if any of them turned out to be gay, so be it. As long as they're loving members of the world I don't care who they love, as long as they're happy with themselves.

[mattcake79]

Originally Posted by least

As long as they're loving members of the world I don't care who they love, as long as they're happy with themselves.

I wish *all* people felt this way!

[least]

Matt, I thank my parents often for raising us kids to be loving and accepting of others.

[backporchpoet]

Thanks for all the responses guys. I do believe that allowing my son to indulge in his love for princesses is what is making him happy. I mean, just being around him for one minute would be enough for anyone to tell where his interest lies.

I do believe that if he does end up being gay, he will have parents who he will feel comfortable coming out to.

As a child, my Mother used to always say "When you grow up and marry a man or a woman..." and I would always say, "Ewwww Mom! A woman???"......Well, come to find out I liked women, so coming out to my Mom was so simple. In fact, she finished my sentence for me haha.

I'm glad to hear that people think allowing my son to have barbies and wear big t-shirts around the house is nurturing, not damaging. My son's Father used to be a regular part of his life until this princess obsession began and then we got into a HUGE argument with him saying things like "He's a BOY! You don't buy him girl things! No son of mine is gonna be a fruit. I don't care what he likes...he's not the one with the money to buy these things." As you can only imagine that didn't turn out so well. So long story short, he decided that he didn't wanna be in my son's life anymore if my son was gonna "act like a girl" and that it was all my fault because I was giving him the impression that acting like a girl is okay. Some man, huh? I think it's better off for now anyway. He doesn't need someone that narrow minded in his life who is only gonna put him down.

Anyway, so reading that what I'm doing is healthy is helpful, especially after hearing that what I'm doing is wrong over and over again.

And freya, I never said there was anything wrong with being a shaved head, overweight butch. I was simply stating that although I am by no means a femme, I am also not entirely butch. I guess you said it best. I look like a gay man! In fact, I've been hit on many times by gay men at the clubs. I was just throwing that in there in case it had an impact on people's opinions of my situation.

[KenL]

I don't remember dressing up as a princess but I did play with Barbie dolls. We used shoes as cars. It's better to let him play with those than it is to make him feel like a worthless, unloveable person like his dad was most likely going to do. That's what would really f*** him up. It's probably a pretty good thing that his dad is out of the picture. The boy is so young. Just keep being the best mom you can be! Love him and cuddle him and let him know he means something.

Ken

[backporchpoet]

My son does sometimes say that he doesn't think I'm a girl because I don't have long hair. I keep trying to explain to him that girls don't have to have long hair and that both boys and girls can have long or short hair.

I wonder if that has anything to do with his views on gender. I keep telling him he is a boy and I am a girl, yet I look like a boy. Hmmmmm....

[Emimily]

i'm not gay. i'm actually kinda boy crazy... buuuut, i wanted to be a boy pretty much my whole childhood. wore hi tops, big baggy shorts, always played the boy role... aladdin was a badass, why on EARTH would i be lame jasmine stuck in an hourglass? seriously.

nowadays, i'm still pretty rough and tumble, but my jeans are fitted and my t-shirts are too and i look like a girl. i wear mascara. BUT - my mom let me go through my "i hate dresses" phase, and i ended up sundress/skirts n tees queen of north cackalack. so go figure. i bet he's freakin adorable.

[KenL]

Originally Posted by backporchpoet

My son does sometimes say that he doesn't think I'm a girl because I don't have long hair. I keep trying to explain to him that girls don't have to have long hair and that both boys and girls can have long or short hair.

I wonder if that has anything to do with his views on gender. I keep telling him he is a boy and I am a girl, yet I look like a boy. Hmmmmm....

I'm putting on my psychoanalyst hat now even though that's not what I do, so bear with me.

Barbies typically have long hair. Perhaps your son has learned through his Barbies that girls are "supposed" to have long hair and he is projecting that onto you. That is not to say that you should give his Barbies a hair cut. But, it would be an interesting thing to see what he thinks about cutting the hair of one of his Barbies. That's just something to ponder before suggesting it to him. You may already know how he'll react. If that is the case then consider my next suggestion. Not that you asked, I'm just putting it out there.

I know my avatar is a bit of a distraction. It's due to my name of course and it was inspired by one of my friends here. May I suggest, assuming your son does not have any Ken dolls, that you take him this weekend to get one or two Ken dolls. This might stir things up when considering the dynamic of the relationships in your house but you did bring up the notion that he has views on gender. I would propose that he is too young to have such views and that in fact they are just now beginning to develop. I'd have to check on that to be certain. Anyway, it might be an avenue that you could take to help him with this development.

I also have a book title that I'll send to you shortly. You may or may not find it of some use as you raise that cute little guy of yours. That's a great picture of him. I have a son and four daughters just so you know a little about where I'm coming from.

[backporchpoet]

Hmmm I suppose you are right. His ideas on gender are just now forming. I mean, he doesn't think that I am a boy, but he keeps trying to tell me that I don't have "pretty long girl hair". Long hair might just be what he thinks is "pretty".

He actually does have 1 Ken doll. My Mother bought it for him to play with as a "prince" for his Sleeping Beauty Barbie. When he first got it, he seemed excited and as he played with it, he kept making the Ken and Barbie dolls kiss. I've never seen him make two of his Barbie dolls kiss, even though the only adult couple around the house are two females. So I know for a fact he doesn't think that all women marry women or that all men marry men.

Anyway, he lost interest with the Ken doll 2 or 3 days after he got it. For a kid who's entire fascination with Barbies revolves around "pretty long girl hair" and pink dresses, Ken and his simple suit and plastic hair just doesn't cut it.

[KenL]

Erin,
From what I've read, boys don't really show much preference for either gender until 5 or 6 years of age. And that is in the context of friends, not dolls or clothing. My daughter Sarah has a friend who is a boy and is 9 years old but he still plays only with girls. It's quite a stretch to say anything related to his sexual preference. He's still young and has much developing to go through. It's possible for him he likes the genteel nature of girls over the rambunctious nature of the boys he knows. That's just an aside and my have no bearing on your son. Their is something to be said for hormones as well. Boys have roughly 20 times the amount of testosterone that girls have so you'll have more aggressive behavior with them.

Originally Posted by backporchpoet

I've never seen him make two of his Barbie dolls kiss, even though the only adult couple around the house are two females. So I know for a fact he doesn't think that all women marry women or that all men marry men.

Again, as with the gender issue, I don't think that at his young age he is capable of forming those kinds of ideas. I don't mean to be contrary but I do have some experience in these matters. I do believe that people in this day and age expect children to grow up way too fast and that many attribute young children with having more knowledge than they actually do. I have come to this realization based on my own mistakes in raising my children. I was very active in that endeavor and still am. My own son is now just entering puberty and I have to figure out how to deal with him. I've never had a son in puberty before. I'm learing new things about him. I have in my head that he should know certain things and yet I know that he needs to be taught them before he can apply them to his daily relationships. I need to remind myself of that from time to time.

The book I have is titled The Good Son by Michael Gurian. It's only one source and there are many that you can find on how to raise a son and what to expect in terms of "normalcy" (sorry freya) for a young boy. My best advice is to find books and to educate yourself (assuming you haven't already) about your little boy so that you can understand the reasons for the things he does. There is bound to be more significant issues than the Barbie one as time progresses. He's so young and you two have a long life together.

Ken

[nandm]

I am assuming that your son is the picture in your avatar. Which would mean he is about 3 or 4. Children that age are exploring, curious, and learning. He is trying to define and understand his world.

As a lesbian and mother of 3 children, ages 24, 22, and 14, I have found that my thoughts on which of my children might be gay were way off base. My middle daughter was the rough and tumble tough one. She hated dresses and was as tough as nails growing up. I assumed she would be gay. My oldest daughter was much more feminine. Did not mind dresses, was always dressed neat and clean, shy, and reserved. I never dreamed she would be gay. But she is and her sister is as straight as an arrow. I raised them both the same.....let them choose the toys they wanted to play with....tried to teach them to respect others differences...and be true to who they are on the inside rather than trying to live up to what they think others want them to be.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are respectful, loving, and teach him to be true to himself he will make his own way in life and find who he is. Trust that God does not make mistakes. Being gay is not a birth defect (actually I have a theory that hormonal balance in the womb affects sexuality of the child, this is just a theory). Trust yourself....keep loving him and allow him to express himself. Hang in there...there have been some wonderful and insightful responses to your thread. :ghug

[Nallabelle]

Cute kid you have. I am straight but your story is really interesting. I mean he is a kid so it could be a phase. Or, he could be gay. If I were you I would make an attempt to expose him to "boy things" sports, etc. Im not saying you should encourage him NOT to be gay, but just make sure he is exposed to enough guy stuff too. Time will tell