Firesong

Not really, because of the anonymity factor, but still ...

I wish I could tell his mother I miss her too. She and I were friends before I ever met him, and we remained friends, until he ended the friendship. He ended not only the friendship he and I had, but the friendship she and I had. I miss his dad, too, and even the dogs!

When he wrote to me early this year he told me not to try to get in touch with her because he was so protective of her. I thought, "Honey, I am just as protective of her as you are; in fact more, because I never ever talked to her about you." I figured all along she knew, but she and I never talked about him, and he thought she knew nothing about a whole side of his life. So yeah, I was just as protective of her, if not more so, than he was.

It makes me sad, but it also makes me angry that she doesn't have the guts to stay friend with me, but let him rule her life. I understand family loyalty, and I hope that's what this is, but I miss the girl-friendship she and I had that was separate from my friendship with him.

He trusted me until he didn't trust me, and then he accused me of stuff I had never done, had never even thought about doing.

I should probably hate him, but I don't.

Ann

Have you tried to get in touch with her? His request doesn't mean it is her wishes.

Sometimes a little time is needed, sometimes the time can widen the gap. Maybe send her a note and tell her you miss your friendship and maybe ask if you two can meet for coffee...and then keep the conversation off him and on something good you both share, friendship. A note gives her time to think about it and not feel put on the spot.

Just my thoughts.

Firesong

Good thoughts, Ann, thanks, they make sense to me.

Last Christmas before I knew how mad he was at me, I sent the family some Christmas presents, like last year. She sent me a present from the family and a card. I wrote a thank-you card back. She didn't thank me for the presents I sent them, but I did get a very angry, very ugly note from him and that is when he told me to not try to get in touch with her anymore, not to call the house, not to send any more presents or cards or anything to any of them. Months later I e-mailed her, and some other friends, a copy of a poem I wrote years and years ago, before I ever met her or him, about children -- I sent it to friends who are parents -- and he sent me an e-mail telling me it wasn't cool to try to get in touch with him through her. I had not tried to get in touch with him through her, he isn't a parent, why would I have sent the poem to him? It was really creepy, because he e-mailed me from her e-mail account. He said it was a nice poem, but I don't know why he said he thought it was for him. I guess she let him read it in the e-mail and then let him e-mail me from her account. That is just creepy. I guess she didn't want to bother to contact me -- maybe he's told her not to contact me?

It's just creepy.

Bobbieka

My ex best friend and I became friends at 9. We are now 50. In October we will have not spoken in 1 year. It breaks my heart. But, I am sober, she is not. We were toxic to each other. Our children were raised as family. I took her mother to her doctor appointments. The demise of our friendship was treated like a divorce. I cry over our separation sometimes, but I know it is the best for everyone all around.

They are supporting their son. Maybe you really just have to let it go. I'd like to have a conversation one time, just showing them it is not my fault. I didn't do the things she said. Truth is, I'll never get the outcome I want, so I truly have let it go. I hope you can. I hope you get some peace.

needingabreak

Sometimes there are no goodbyes and no closure. It sounds like you need to walk away, keep the good memories and find some new friends. Many people who get clean unfortunately want to start new lives and that sometimes means leaving behind those who loved them and tried to help. I am not sure how much of a friend he really was by the previous posts. I think it would be very difficult (and uncomfortable) for his mother to remain friends with you when he has stated he wants no contact. I think this is one you need to honor, let go and move on not just for his benefit but yours as well. It sounds like there would be an awful lot of drama involved here. Do you really want it that bad?

atalose

I think it’s pretty normal to lose friends when there is a break-up. And when there are no children involved the dynamics with the other person’s family changes.

I got along well with all of my son’s GF’s while they were dating but once the break up happened, as you mentioned “loyalty” will also be to him. Some of his ex’s wanted to remain friends with me to find out about him. Some wanted to bash him to me as friends would normally do while others just fell by the way side because the dynamics changed. There was only one of his ex’s that he asked me NOT to remain friendly with and that was because she would not let go and had stalker tendencies.

It’s very normal for the friendships we created because of the person we were with, to change, once we are no longer with them.

AnvilheadII

he has asked you REPEATEDLY to NOT contact him or his family. if the roles were reversed and you had clearly stated to another to NOT reach out to your or your family, and they did so, how would YOU feel?

you are still clinging tightly to vapors of what you thought existed between you two. and i get that you also had a "relationship" with his mother, father, dogs. but there does come a time when we HAVE to let go and move on and quit circling the drain. for your own mental health.

teatreeoil007

It seems pretty clear, from what's been shared that this is a boundary issue as much as anything else. He has clearly said "no contact". And, "no contact" usually also means no contact with the family. I know that must hurt, but that is likely the reality of the boundary. It doesn't sound like he was a very healthy 'friend' overall. I guess I am wondering why you would WANT to be in contact with his mother?

Firesong

He has not asked me "REPEATEDLY." He asked me once, in a very ugly note in which he accused me of something he had made up, that I never did, that he knew would have been totally out of character for me. The first time he went nuts on me (on the phone) I texted him to please leave me alone. He was saying things that made no sense and I did not know why, or how to handle it, and I did not want him yelling at me anymore for something I never did, that he would not listen to me tell him he was mistaken. I figured he would come to his senses at some point and apologize. He said he missed me and loved me but just couldn't talk to me. There was no reason he could not talk to me. We had always talked about all sorts of things.

I have never had to ask anyone to leave my family or me alone. I don't know that kind of people. I have never felt threatened by anyone my family or I have known. This is the first person I have ever told to please leave me alone. As I said, I don't know the kind of people that people have to ask to leave them alone.

Firesong

Because she and I were friends. Not bosom buddies, just friends. We used to go out to eat together and chat and we would giggle like little kids. We never talked about him, other than just the sort of ordinary things you share about your family with friends. We never "discussed" him. I don't want to contact her to tell her how he treated me. I just miss the fun and laughter. We used to talk about dogs more than about our families, anyway. She and I were friends before he and I were, and he robbed us both of that friendship.

Why would there have to be drama? I don't do drama. I don't understand people who do. Some people make life so complicated and dramatic, and really it can be so nice and peaceful and happy and fun.

needingabreak

There would be drama because her son does not want you to contact her or anyone in the family. I get the feeling that you do not see this situation the same as those of us on the outside do.
You stated he asked you to not contact him or his mother. You did anyway. Now you wish you could contact her and be friends. I stated I think that puts her in a very awkward position. Maybe you do not understand how that could be but it puts her in the middle whether you discuss him or not because he does not want her talking to you and probably wants to move on without you in his life, for whatever reason, right or wrong it is what he wants and you should probably honor that and move on. Do you not have any other friends you have fun with who are your own age?

teatreeoil007

I didn't mention anything about drama, or lack thereof. But since you wrote about it, going against his wishes that you not contact his family, [which includes his mother], well, that could very well cause a bit of drama. "No contact" means do not contact him in any fashion...via any means, like through a family member or friend of his. Maybe you don't feel you are contacting him by contacting his family, but that is considered a means of 'contact'.

At any rate, I truly DO understand how you miss her and the things you used to do together...I get that, I really do. It's sad in a way. It's also common and quite easy to romanticize about the past GOOD times that were had. Those memories don't just go away. I have zero idea why he wants no contact, but sometimes recovering addicts want a clean break from their former life as an active addict. That may include breaking away from old friends.

Firesong

I am moving on. But when I have said here on SR that there is no reason for me to be here anymore, since this guy and I are no longer friends, people have responded that oh, yes, I still belong here, and it is OK to post that you are grieving something and trying to figure things out even though they are over. Sometimes going back to an issue lets you use that issue to give you a push to move forward, away from it.

I am just getting enough distance from what happened that I can look back on it without coming apart, and try to figure out what happened and why. I am starting to be able to see him as he was when he treated me badly, when he got mad at me for nothing, when I could try to figure out 99 things that might annoy him so I could avoid them, and then he got mad at me for the 1 thing I hadn't considered. I am trying to see him as he probably really was. I thought it would help me to ask other people -- people who don't know either one of us and could be objective -- for ideas based on their experiences.

But apparently I was right the first time, I don't belong on here anymore, because all this is over as of last winter and I need to move on, both from the two friendships that apparently mattered more to me than they did to this man and his family, because after all they have each other and they have swept so much stuff under the rug for so many years it's a wonder they can walk around without tripping and falling flat on their faces. I don't need to reflect on this, or try to figure out that it might possibly have been him who was at fault at least some of the time, and not me all the time, so I can stop blaming myself. Because he left me feeling that I don't ever want to make any more friends, ever, especially male ones.

But apparently I also need to move on from SR, because his family and I aren't friends now, so I have no reason to post on "Friends and Family of Addicts," or under "Grief" or "Anxiety" (even though my doctor put me on Lexapro because of this guy).

So I should just move on from SR, too, because since it's all over I should by now be fully recovered.

OK, I get it.

teatreeoil007

Firesong:

I, for one and I'm sure there are others who would hate for you to somehow get the idea that you don't belong here and that you should 'just move on'. The way I see it, you are going through the various stages of grief and there are really no set RULES for how long each stage should take and the stages don't always go in "order". I see that you are still trying to process your feelings and coming here to do so is good because the folks here have been through something so similar and truly do understand.

I know it's hard to move on from something that meant so much. Hugs to you and keep plugging away at loving yourself. Tell yourself that you ARE lovable! Sometimes, it feels like all you really have is yourself.

I can't speak for others, but think the point was trying to be made is when someone wants no contact, that is what we are sort of resigned to...I would think that would hurt....but what can you do? One time my very own sister was refusing to accept my calls and I did not know what I even DID...she was hostile toward me for a very long time....things are better now, but it was really painful for a while there...

needingabreak

TEatree I am the one who said she probably doesnt need the drama in her life. I was trying to be helpful but it seems my words are being twisted. I, nor anyone else ever said you need to leave SR in fact I think it would be very beneficial. No one said you should not feel hurt or upset over what happened and I said I felt after the way he treated you that maybe he wasn't such a good friend after all. When said "move on" I did not mean you should just move on as if nothing happened. I am not sure why you are feeling defensive and that anyone feels you should not be here. I feel as if you have misinterpreted my words. Please understand when anyone comes here for advice, myself included, we do not always hear what we want to. If the members all told us what we wanted to hear they would not be helping us. The truth is harsh and it sure does hurt at times but it helps move us in the right direction. I have lost friendships myself so I get it but the people who responded are trying to tell you when someone asks for no contact, it means no contact and unfortunately that means family members as well. Every person who has responded to you is trying to help you. I am sorry if you feel hurt by the responses but I can tell you most people here are very caring and compassionate. I will refrain from commenting on this thread but do wish you the best and hope you continue to come back and get the support you need. People here are wonderful.

Hechosedrugs

Firesong,

Some of the advice that has helped me the most has hurt just as much. The truth hurts, plain and simple. It wouldn't be right for us to only tell you what you want to hear. It's time to move on. So, what's the plan? Because that's where you need to be at this point. You need to have a plan and start implementing it. No more "what if's?"

Wish you the best.

Firesong

Thanks ... yeah, see, I've never had anyone tell me before to leave them alone. I'd never told anyone else that, either, until I told this guy. We had been such good friends, so close, talking about so many things so honestly (I thought), that I figured he would come to his senses after he got clean, once the right meds kicked in, he would stop being paranoid, stop having to keep so many secrets from so many people, he would feel more relaxed, and he would want to continue being my friend. And I figured his mom and the rest of his family could make up their own minds who they wanted to stay in touch with and who they didn't. I was going by my experience with other friends I have had. A couple of us have had falling-outs, but they never lasted, we got back in touch, and we are still friends. So I figured that was what would happen here, too, because in some ways this guy and I were closer friends than I was with the others.
I hear what people here are saying about his mom and divided loyalties and being caught in the middle. I don't agree that it's valid, but I guess it is what it is. And if she doesn't have the guts to get in touch with me, see how I'm doing; if she doesn't want to hang out anymore, just because her son controls her, well, then, she doesn't have the guts to do that, so that's that.

Firesong

Maybe you should have expressed yourself more clearly, and said this the first time. How are people to know what you mean if you don't say what you mean? Just a bit of advice.

Yes, the truth is harsh, but who are you to say that what's been said is the universal truth? It may be opinion, it may be based on experience, and that's good, that can be helpful, but what is the standard that makes it "truth"?

One of the things I have begun to consider recently, looking back, is what you said, that maybe, after all, he wasn't such a good friend as I thought he was. I have been thinking about that for awhile now, and trying to accept the possibility. I used to think that at some point he and I would be able to look back at this mess together and discuss what happened, who thought what, etc., but I'm starting to think that won't happen, and that I should just move on (which is the message I'm getting here, oddly enough! )

I am not feeling defensive, necessarily, but I do get frustrated when people make assumptions based on something I have written and respond without bothering to ask me to explain so they can be sure they've got it right. Maybe I "twisted" your meaning; maybe you twisted mine. Misinterpretation cuts both ways. It is VERY hard to express tone of voice in written communication.

I never said anyone here had said I should not be here. What I did say is that people have said that I do belong here. Again, you assumed a lot that was based on misinterpretation. The reason I doubt that I should be here is -- as I said -- I am no longer the friend of an addict. So obviously I don't belong in the "friends of" forum. Maybe that is an erroneous assumption on my part. Maybe you can post in that forum even if you are not a friend or relative. I don't know. If it is indeed time for me to move on from my ex-friendship with this guy, then maybe I don't belong in the Grief forum, either, because moving on means you have stopped grieving. Or does it? I think it was TeaTree? who posted about moving through the stages of grief -- sorry if I got it wrong -- so maybe I can still post in that one. As for the Panic and Anxiety threads, maybe I could still post there, because I am still taking meds for panic and anxiety. The horrible thing is, I got put on those meds because of this guy, but when we were friends I never needed them. I never panicked when he was there. I was brave. I could go anywhere have fun, because I was with him and he was with me and we had fun. He once told me I was tough as nails and said he meant that as a compliment. I had his back.
I thought he had mine.
I miss him. Maybe I shouldn't, maybe he wasn't a good friend, maybe I'm much better off without him. I don't miss the temper, the walking on eggshells, the realization that some things I talked about, that I thought interested him, actually annoyed him.
I miss him when he was nice to me, and fun to be with.

Eauchiche

Dear Firesong
I am going to tell you something different than the other input you have received here. This is just my opinion. As at meetings, we are free to take what we want here and leave the rest.

This is my take on the issues:
1. Your ex is free to ask you to not contact him. HOWEVER, unless he holds some inappropriate control over his family, he doesn't have the right to enforce this for them. The whole scenario you described sounds sort of like a bratty kid on the playground ordering all the other kids to shun somebody.

2. The friendship between you and his mother is between the two of you. If she wants to maintain this friendship, then nobody else should have anything to say about it. This should also apply to all the other members of his family.

3. It sounds to me like your ex is acting like an addict, trying to rope others in because his own life is out of control.

I hope you keep coming back here. Good luck!!!

Firesong

Eauchiche, thank you for your insight.

He is an addict, last time I saw him he was a recovering addict and had been for nearly a year. I hope he still is in recovery.