Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms...
Sarah
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Pennsylvaina
Posts: 44
Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms...
I wanted to post a link but as new as I am I was unable to but the Information came to my attention about Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms. As so many of you know the struggles that we face as Friends and Family to Substance Abusers and Recovering Addicts is VERY Difficult for everyone involved. I was able to take a lot from the information about PAWS and also provide it to my RA husband as well. I know any bit of information or education on the journey at hand, that can help, I welcome with open arms. One day, one moment, one mood swing at a time...
God Bless you All!
Sarah
God Bless you All!
Sarah
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Canine Welfare Advocate
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Location: Norfolk, VA
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PAWS occurs several months after one has quit taking drugs. Has you husband been off drugs for that long? If not you might attribute your husband's behavor to using rather than PAWS.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
What Carl said!
You have to be clean, wd over, go through some sort of pink cloud phase then PAWS hits.
PAWS is fascinating. I watched my husband go through it like clockwork. Started at around 3 months and then it was monthly to the date every month for about a year. They it hit again at like 18 months. Just typically one day he would have leg kicks, constant chills with goosebumps, sneezing fits ... some mental, but more physical. The mental anguish, was just present for a real long time. It was a sadness, longing, lost, desperate oddity...
You have to be clean, wd over, go through some sort of pink cloud phase then PAWS hits.
PAWS is fascinating. I watched my husband go through it like clockwork. Started at around 3 months and then it was monthly to the date every month for about a year. They it hit again at like 18 months. Just typically one day he would have leg kicks, constant chills with goosebumps, sneezing fits ... some mental, but more physical. The mental anguish, was just present for a real long time. It was a sadness, longing, lost, desperate oddity...
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
here's another take on PAWS....called Flare Up Periods....i experienced this going thru getting off crack cocaine....after 8 years plus clean, i still get weird little moments....dreams....reflections....memories.
FLARE UP PERIODS
The term "flare up periods" or "flare ups" refer to definite time periods during which the recovering alcoholic/addict experiences an increased amount of tension and anxiety. Should he return to the use of alcohol or drugs, it will most likely be during one of these flare up periods. It is important, therefore, that the recovering alcoholic/addict, his family, his friends, his employer and anyone else who may play an important role during these periods become aware of how to recognize the onset of a flare up period and what to do when one occurs.
Flare ups occur at predictable intervals: five to six days, four to five weeks, eight to ten weeks, thirteen weeks, six months, nine months, and eleven to thirteen months after the last use of alcohol/drugs.
Factors in recognizing the onset of a flare up include feelings of irritability, moodiness, boredom, restlessness and difficulty in eating and sleeping. These emotional states grow in intensity and come to a peak which lasts up to three days. During these three days, the recovering alcoholic/ addict may be extremely depressed and irritable. He may feel all is hopeless, that nothing can go right and display outbursts of anger for almost no reason or because of something which would ordinarily be considered insignificant. There are also some physical signs indicating that he is approaching a danger zone. He may develop aches and pains, he may perspire more than ordinary and he may have headaches.There also may be behavior changes. These changes are sometimes so slight that they would be passed off without undue attention unless one is watching for them. Uncharacteristic juvenile behavior, unreasonable giggling and joy, expressions of weariness, restlessness or boredom, and a sudden concern about his health, job, family, loneliness, etc. are examples of such behavior changes.
WHAT TO DO
The first step in dealing with a flare up is to expect them and watch for the signs.
When you suspect that you are entering a flare up period, seek help from someone who will understand what you are going through, your counselor or therapist, your spouse, a fellow group member, AA, CA or a good friend (who won’t offer you a drink or drug) are possible sources of help. Sometimes just calling someone to talk to , going for a drive or working on a hobby will help reduce the tension of a flare up. In any case, it is best to keep busy.
Realize that the storm will pass. Flare ups usually last from one to three days. After it passes, things will return to normal again.
DO NOT DRINK! DO NOT USE DRUGS! One drink or drug will set off a chain reaction and you’ll find yourself completely loaded and right back where you started!
given to me by a counselor long ago -Dan
Hospitals have studied druggies/alkies that were brought in with brain damage severe enough to induce coma. The patients had to be fed through a tube. While they were hooked up to the IV's they took daily blood samples. A curious pattern started to emerge when they compared the tests for several hundred people who had stopped drinking/drugging when they were admitted to the hospitals. (coma's do that ya know... help you stop using that is...)
They found that the level of endorphines (pleasure receptors) dropped to zero after 4-7 days. Then after about 24-72 hours the endorphines came back AT A HIGHER LEVEL than they had been. Then at about 30 days the levels dropped to zero again. But after another 24-72 hours they came back, again at a higher level! This phenomenon repeats itself at a suspiciously familiar interval...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ normal endorphine level
~~++++++++++++++++ users level -- drugs/alcohol (+) provide the balance
~~ 1st week sober (notice the lack of drug support)
FLARE UP (24-72 hours each time)
~~~~ after 1st flare up (4-7 days)
~~~~~~ after 30 day's flare up
~~~~~~~~ after 60 day's flare up
~~~~~~~~~~ after 90 day's flare up
~~~~~~~~~~~~ after 6 month's flare up
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ after 9 month's flare up
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ after a year's flare up
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ normal level reached after 1 1/2 years or more.
Notice how the Flare-ups occur in the same time periods as we give chips? Makes one wonder doesn't it?
I imagine you are asking yourself... So? So - if you relapse you start back at the beginning of the chart because your body stopped making endorphines when the drugs/alcohol started supplying them. That is one of the reasons people don't want to come back - they don't feel all right. Another reason is ego. Hang in there and you WILL feel better.
FLARE UP PERIODS
The term "flare up periods" or "flare ups" refer to definite time periods during which the recovering alcoholic/addict experiences an increased amount of tension and anxiety. Should he return to the use of alcohol or drugs, it will most likely be during one of these flare up periods. It is important, therefore, that the recovering alcoholic/addict, his family, his friends, his employer and anyone else who may play an important role during these periods become aware of how to recognize the onset of a flare up period and what to do when one occurs.
Flare ups occur at predictable intervals: five to six days, four to five weeks, eight to ten weeks, thirteen weeks, six months, nine months, and eleven to thirteen months after the last use of alcohol/drugs.
Factors in recognizing the onset of a flare up include feelings of irritability, moodiness, boredom, restlessness and difficulty in eating and sleeping. These emotional states grow in intensity and come to a peak which lasts up to three days. During these three days, the recovering alcoholic/ addict may be extremely depressed and irritable. He may feel all is hopeless, that nothing can go right and display outbursts of anger for almost no reason or because of something which would ordinarily be considered insignificant. There are also some physical signs indicating that he is approaching a danger zone. He may develop aches and pains, he may perspire more than ordinary and he may have headaches.There also may be behavior changes. These changes are sometimes so slight that they would be passed off without undue attention unless one is watching for them. Uncharacteristic juvenile behavior, unreasonable giggling and joy, expressions of weariness, restlessness or boredom, and a sudden concern about his health, job, family, loneliness, etc. are examples of such behavior changes.
WHAT TO DO
The first step in dealing with a flare up is to expect them and watch for the signs.
When you suspect that you are entering a flare up period, seek help from someone who will understand what you are going through, your counselor or therapist, your spouse, a fellow group member, AA, CA or a good friend (who won’t offer you a drink or drug) are possible sources of help. Sometimes just calling someone to talk to , going for a drive or working on a hobby will help reduce the tension of a flare up. In any case, it is best to keep busy.
Realize that the storm will pass. Flare ups usually last from one to three days. After it passes, things will return to normal again.
DO NOT DRINK! DO NOT USE DRUGS! One drink or drug will set off a chain reaction and you’ll find yourself completely loaded and right back where you started!
given to me by a counselor long ago -Dan
Hospitals have studied druggies/alkies that were brought in with brain damage severe enough to induce coma. The patients had to be fed through a tube. While they were hooked up to the IV's they took daily blood samples. A curious pattern started to emerge when they compared the tests for several hundred people who had stopped drinking/drugging when they were admitted to the hospitals. (coma's do that ya know... help you stop using that is...)
They found that the level of endorphines (pleasure receptors) dropped to zero after 4-7 days. Then after about 24-72 hours the endorphines came back AT A HIGHER LEVEL than they had been. Then at about 30 days the levels dropped to zero again. But after another 24-72 hours they came back, again at a higher level! This phenomenon repeats itself at a suspiciously familiar interval...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ normal endorphine level
~~++++++++++++++++ users level -- drugs/alcohol (+) provide the balance
~~ 1st week sober (notice the lack of drug support)
FLARE UP (24-72 hours each time)
~~~~ after 1st flare up (4-7 days)
~~~~~~ after 30 day's flare up
~~~~~~~~ after 60 day's flare up
~~~~~~~~~~ after 90 day's flare up
~~~~~~~~~~~~ after 6 month's flare up
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ after 9 month's flare up
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ after a year's flare up
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ normal level reached after 1 1/2 years or more.
Notice how the Flare-ups occur in the same time periods as we give chips? Makes one wonder doesn't it?
I imagine you are asking yourself... So? So - if you relapse you start back at the beginning of the chart because your body stopped making endorphines when the drugs/alcohol started supplying them. That is one of the reasons people don't want to come back - they don't feel all right. Another reason is ego. Hang in there and you WILL feel better.
Sarah
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Pennsylvaina
Posts: 44
I have to say I am very new to all of this in the sense that I am living my life along side someone in very early Recovery. I have been very suspicious at times and I have been directed to research these stages. I did not realize that PAWS does not begin for several months... I don't know then if my RA husband is still in the throws of acute withdrawal or he is using these stages as excuses to mask symptoms... He left on October 23rd for Detox and came home on October 28th... So this is still the first month... I have been trying very hard not to assume the worst but when I turn a blind eye, I am most certain to be blind sided... I have lived my entire life surrounded by addiction and recovery and sadly much more addiction then recovery, since I was little, about 10yrs old I'd say but never have I been living with (married to) the RA in this type of scenario. I am suspicious on the inside of every sniffle.... Every trip to the bathroom, every drive to the store for smokes.... But I don't want to make this all harder then it already is either so I just take close account of his behavior and try to give it an explanation before an accusation.... I welcome any and all information I can absorb to help us both because with my (our) kids involved he wont get a chance to go through recovery again with me by his side....
Much love to you ALL!
THANKS!
sArAh
Much love to you ALL!
THANKS!
sArAh
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: milwaukee wi
Posts: 3,574
we have just learned that the Doctor knew Ed would have the terrible problems with withdrawl.. he was not able as a Doctor to tell me.. what to watch for .. he held me tight yesterday and I sobbed. since Sept.. Its been very difficult with Ed's mood swings and anger... I do know now that It will take a year or more for him to level off.. People this is different for every single person.. document get a book and document.. for that is the only Saving Grace in all of this.. make that your Bible of how your life is day to day.. and be honest with the writting and yourself.. for in a couple of months you will go back over it and read and then know how you have been able to bet it .. or find out with new eyes what has happened.. please llll trust this old lady of Faith and Family .. love to you all. keep trying .. for the only time you really fail is when you stop trying. love ardy
Sarah
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Pennsylvaina
Posts: 44
THANK YOU Anvil and Everyone ! That information is also very helpful. I feel like I have seen so many different behaviors that I am still trying to categorize them all as well as figure out if they belong to relapse or recovery.... 
dunno
I know that being in Recovery at any stage has to be a very selfish time and very focused on ones own best interest's. But I have to admit there are days I just wish I could be the selfish one. That I could lay around and be defined by only ONE ongoing accomplishment. That the world around me and the people in it would remove all of my responsibilities so that I could recover.... I'm feeling so beat, emotionally exhausted I guess... I'm sorry I don't meant to be this negative or say that he isn't also tired and emotionally exhausted in all of this too. I could just use a happy day with a little clarity... this month has felt like 3....
Thank you for your support and much appreciated information!!
Sarah
dunno I know that being in Recovery at any stage has to be a very selfish time and very focused on ones own best interest's. But I have to admit there are days I just wish I could be the selfish one. That I could lay around and be defined by only ONE ongoing accomplishment. That the world around me and the people in it would remove all of my responsibilities so that I could recover.... I'm feeling so beat, emotionally exhausted I guess... I'm sorry I don't meant to be this negative or say that he isn't also tired and emotionally exhausted in all of this too. I could just use a happy day with a little clarity... this month has felt like 3....
Thank you for your support and much appreciated information!!
Sarah
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,405
saw,
I must ask, what makes you think he is in recovery at all? Everything you have posted points to continued drug use that he is now just better at hiding.
Other than the 5 days in detox, he has been to the ER drug seeking twice since then, went to one meeting, refuses suggestions from his counselors, and refused a drug test.
Unless you've left some important ACTIONS out, there is not one shred of recovery going on so far.
I must ask, what makes you think he is in recovery at all? Everything you have posted points to continued drug use that he is now just better at hiding.
Other than the 5 days in detox, he has been to the ER drug seeking twice since then, went to one meeting, refuses suggestions from his counselors, and refused a drug test.
Unless you've left some important ACTIONS out, there is not one shred of recovery going on so far.
Canine Welfare Advocate
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Location: Norfolk, VA
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Originally Posted by saw1978 
But I have to admit there are days I just wish I could be the selfish one. That I could lay around and be defined by only ONE ongoing accomplishment.
Seek out a Nar-Anon meeting and you will understand what I mean.
Sarah
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Pennsylvaina
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by cynical one
saw,
I must ask, what makes you think he is in recovery at all? Everything you have posted points to continued drug use that he is now just better at hiding.
Other than the 5 days in detox, he has been to the ER drug seeking twice since then, went to one meeting, refuses suggestions from his counselors, and refused a drug test.
Unless you've left some important ACTIONS out, there is not one shred of recovery going on so far.
I must ask, what makes you think he is in recovery at all? Everything you have posted points to continued drug use that he is now just better at hiding.
Other than the 5 days in detox, he has been to the ER drug seeking twice since then, went to one meeting, refuses suggestions from his counselors, and refused a drug test.
Unless you've left some important ACTIONS out, there is not one shred of recovery going on so far.
Sarah
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Posts: 1,405
I wouldn't be so concerned about him going to get drugs. What I would be concerned about is someone delivering drugs to him...knowing where you live. Access to money of course makes getting drugs easier, but it's not impossible to acquire them without it.
Just be careful, focus on you, keep those kiddos safe, and watch for actions not just words.
Just be careful, focus on you, keep those kiddos safe, and watch for actions not just words.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
One of the bigger revelations in my life … I knew nothing unless it is mine. For all I thought I knew it wasn’t until he really shared that I even got a glimpse of what was in his head. Oddly by then I didn’t need any of them answers anymore.
Which made me remember something I was told way back when I was you first posting looking to make sense of things. You don’t get the answers you want but you always get the answers you need if you are open to them.
Be open!
And know that his behavior will show his truth.
And I can guarantee without a cent in their pocket, or a car and no matter how bad they feel, if someone wants to use they will find a way to get their fix. And it goes back to what we won’t have any control over that.
I am being gentle because I have a feeling when you finally get to where you are only seeking out your own answers it is going to be more confusing and stressful than what you are going through with your husband.
And I will call ********!
I am not without compassion, but just because he kicked that doesn’t mean he needs to be laying around all day. That isn’t recovery that is just laying around all day.
Laying around, is a one way ride back to using. Last thing anyone needs is that time alone in their own head.
Does he work?
Which made me remember something I was told way back when I was you first posting looking to make sense of things. You don’t get the answers you want but you always get the answers you need if you are open to them.
Be open!
And know that his behavior will show his truth.
And I can guarantee without a cent in their pocket, or a car and no matter how bad they feel, if someone wants to use they will find a way to get their fix. And it goes back to what we won’t have any control over that.
I am being gentle because I have a feeling when you finally get to where you are only seeking out your own answers it is going to be more confusing and stressful than what you are going through with your husband.
And I will call ********!
I am not without compassion, but just because he kicked that doesn’t mean he needs to be laying around all day. That isn’t recovery that is just laying around all day.
Laying around, is a one way ride back to using. Last thing anyone needs is that time alone in their own head.
Does he work?
Sarah
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Pennsylvaina
Posts: 44
Well things did not go well tonight. All he hears when I talk is accusations, mistrust and zero understanding. I don't "get" what being stuck at home alone all day does to him especially "while he's in pain" he wishes he could find the energy to get up and do things around here... But he just can't.... But the minute I get home he leaves and spends the evening out. I'm left watching the bank account on line... I see he gets gas, coffee ... Supposedly then to a meeting and then out to dinner. He Can't stand being home alone all day yet the minute his family is home he's outta here. This behavior has been going on for a week. Can't spend a minute with us but can't do a damn thing at home to give me a hand. But he does have the energy to get ready for his meeting (only the 3rd in a month) or to spend the day fishing with his best friend or to help move his best friends sister into a new apartment.... I'm not supposed to be angry!!?? Fed up!!?? So I couldn't hide my disgust of it all tonight and well s¡#*t hit the fan. He said he can't recover with me like I am so he is leaving tomorrow he says to go stay with his mother!!.... Maybe that's for the best... I feel like a failure and I hate myself for feeling like that!!! But he is right I am so resentful!!! I'm so F-&!@#g Angry!!!!
😢😡😢😡
😢😡😢😡
Sarah
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Pennsylvaina
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by cynical one
I wouldn't be so concerned about him going to get drugs. What I would be concerned about is someone delivering drugs to him...knowing where you live. Access to money of course makes getting drugs easier, but it's not impossible to acquire them without it.
Just be careful, focus on you, keep those kiddos safe, and watch for actions not just words.
Just be careful, focus on you, keep those kiddos safe, and watch for actions not just words.
Sarah
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Pennsylvaina
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by incitingsilence
One of the bigger revelations in my life … I knew nothing unless it is mine. For all I thought I knew it wasn’t until he really shared that I even got a glimpse of what was in his head. Oddly by then I didn’t need any of them answers anymore.
Which made me remember something I was told way back when I was you first posting looking to make sense of things. You don’t get the answers you want but you always get the answers you need if you are open to them.
Be open!
And know that his behavior will show his truth.
And I can guarantee without a cent in their pocket, or a car and no matter how bad they feel, if someone wants to use they will find a way to get their fix. And it goes back to what we won’t have any control over that.
I am being gentle because I have a feeling when you finally get to where you are only seeking out your own answers it is going to be more confusing and stressful than what you are going through with your husband.
And I will call ********!
I am not without compassion, but just because he kicked that doesn’t mean he needs to be laying around all day. That isn’t recovery that is just laying around all day.
Laying around, is a one way ride back to using. Last thing anyone needs is that time alone in their own head.
Does he work?
Which made me remember something I was told way back when I was you first posting looking to make sense of things. You don’t get the answers you want but you always get the answers you need if you are open to them.
Be open!
And know that his behavior will show his truth.
And I can guarantee without a cent in their pocket, or a car and no matter how bad they feel, if someone wants to use they will find a way to get their fix. And it goes back to what we won’t have any control over that.
I am being gentle because I have a feeling when you finally get to where you are only seeking out your own answers it is going to be more confusing and stressful than what you are going through with your husband.
And I will call ********!
I am not without compassion, but just because he kicked that doesn’t mean he needs to be laying around all day. That isn’t recovery that is just laying around all day.
Laying around, is a one way ride back to using. Last thing anyone needs is that time alone in their own head.
Does he work?
Sweet dreams😔
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Posts: 1,405
His knees hurt too bad to run a vacuum, dust, and do dishes in his own home, but they are OK when he is moving furniture and boxes for some random woman...how does that work?
And, if he has no access to money how is he able to buy gas, coffee, and dinner out?
A very good boundary is "I don't run a flop house, everyone needs to contribute both financially and/or physically to the home, and if they don't- they need to find elsewhere to be a bum".
It sounds like you are contributing 100% to the family finances, the upkeep of the home, and the care of the children and he is contributing 0%. There is no balance at all.
You're kickass and can take care of yourself and your kids on your own...what are you getting out of this?
And, if he has no access to money how is he able to buy gas, coffee, and dinner out?
A very good boundary is "I don't run a flop house, everyone needs to contribute both financially and/or physically to the home, and if they don't- they need to find elsewhere to be a bum".
It sounds like you are contributing 100% to the family finances, the upkeep of the home, and the care of the children and he is contributing 0%. There is no balance at all.
You're kickass and can take care of yourself and your kids on your own...what are you getting out of this?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
He is a contradiction, I know you see it.
And the buying gas. Is it actually making it into the car? I love the gas scam. You go to station offer to put gas in someone else’s car under the pretense that you need cash. You pay for their gas on card, they give you cash and that is that.
And while you cannot understand you are not naïve. And his actions and words don’t match. And trust was broken, most in recovery get that and know that if they are walking the walk it will be obvious and when they aren’t it will equally as obvious. If he actually is clean, this is also early for you too and you get the same break if you are being insane
You will have your own stuff to undo.
Did he leave this morning to go to his moms?
TGIF!
And the buying gas. Is it actually making it into the car? I love the gas scam. You go to station offer to put gas in someone else’s car under the pretense that you need cash. You pay for their gas on card, they give you cash and that is that.
And while you cannot understand you are not naïve. And his actions and words don’t match. And trust was broken, most in recovery get that and know that if they are walking the walk it will be obvious and when they aren’t it will equally as obvious. If he actually is clean, this is also early for you too and you get the same break if you are being insane
You will have your own stuff to undo. Did he leave this morning to go to his moms?
TGIF!
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