Why Does Na-Anon and Al-Anon Do This?
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: MD
Posts: 658
Might be both lives can be, but its hard to say and trying to force someone to recover isn't likely to succeed.
Alanon hasn't told me to "leave 'em they're hopeless", but instead "clean up my side of the street and maybe they'll decide to clean theirs, and if so then perhaps both can work more closely. But if not, at least my side is cleaner and I'm saner".
My sponsor and I talk about all kinds on non 12 step recovery stuff, but that's person to person. In meetings that sort of thing is considered distracting. But the meetings are supposed to be about helping you keep at doing the 12/step work, the meetings aren't the program itself.
Alanon hasn't told me to "leave 'em they're hopeless", but instead "clean up my side of the street and maybe they'll decide to clean theirs, and if so then perhaps both can work more closely. But if not, at least my side is cleaner and I'm saner".
My sponsor and I talk about all kinds on non 12 step recovery stuff, but that's person to person. In meetings that sort of thing is considered distracting. But the meetings are supposed to be about helping you keep at doing the 12/step work, the meetings aren't the program itself.
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Burgh
Posts: 1,991
Let's be careful to not come across as bashing another's program of choice. Exploring all options is always a good idea.
My 2 cents, Jessica: You have to be careful to not pick apart everything that does not pertain to you, and then wind up throwing away all options. Subconsciously, this allows us to spin and do nothing, because nothing fits EXACTLY. That was a pretty comfy spot for me.
For some, using strict advice from Alanon saved them from finding reason's to abandon the belief that they also had a problem, and that problem was tossing everything that preserved themselves in order to "save" the addict.
For others, they were able to sustain a positive role helping their loved one by supporting their efforts at recovery.
The choice is yours and only you can decide what you are comfortable with.
My experience taught me that I could not keep hanging on to expected results from any of MY actions.
My 2 cents, Jessica: You have to be careful to not pick apart everything that does not pertain to you, and then wind up throwing away all options. Subconsciously, this allows us to spin and do nothing, because nothing fits EXACTLY. That was a pretty comfy spot for me.
For some, using strict advice from Alanon saved them from finding reason's to abandon the belief that they also had a problem, and that problem was tossing everything that preserved themselves in order to "save" the addict.
For others, they were able to sustain a positive role helping their loved one by supporting their efforts at recovery.
The choice is yours and only you can decide what you are comfortable with.
My experience taught me that I could not keep hanging on to expected results from any of MY actions.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I also think it depends on what group you are in. For myself, I attended Celebrate Recovery. I went in two different places as some nights worked better than others. The atmosphere is different in each place just by the nature of who attends. That also means the discussions that happen are a lot different. I like that, I like to mix it up.
People get way too focused on what "program" they want to use. I have taken and applied practices from all of them. You just have to find a good group that you are comfortable with, that should be really really high on the importance list.
People get way too focused on what "program" they want to use. I have taken and applied practices from all of them. You just have to find a good group that you are comfortable with, that should be really really high on the importance list.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by alterity 
"For me ~ Al-Anon was & still is a life saver ~
and that Life that needed to be saved was MINE - not the many alcoholics/addicts in my life."
Not to question your circumstances in particular, but in a generic sense, why can't both lives be saved? What I have found, and what I think Jessica might also be finding, is that al/nar-anon seems to employ extremely black and white, binary logic: me or the A, sober or not, success or failure, "with the program" or not, in recovery or in denial, enabling or not, etc. However, the world is not black and white and consists largely of shades of grey. Such heuristics serve to simplify, so can be very helpful for people who need simplification, but can also be very exclusionary, rigid, and off putting to people who both want to help themselves AND their As.
and that Life that needed to be saved was MINE - not the many alcoholics/addicts in my life."
Not to question your circumstances in particular, but in a generic sense, why can't both lives be saved? What I have found, and what I think Jessica might also be finding, is that al/nar-anon seems to employ extremely black and white, binary logic: me or the A, sober or not, success or failure, "with the program" or not, in recovery or in denial, enabling or not, etc. However, the world is not black and white and consists largely of shades of grey. Such heuristics serve to simplify, so can be very helpful for people who need simplification, but can also be very exclusionary, rigid, and off putting to people who both want to help themselves AND their As.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Burgh
Posts: 1,991
Originally Posted by alterity
"For me ~ Al-Anon was & still is a life saver ~
and that Life that needed to be saved was MINE - not the many alcoholics/addicts in my life."
Not to question your circumstances in particular, but in a generic sense, why can't both lives be saved? What I have found, and what I think Jessica might also be finding, is that al/nar-anon seems to employ extremely black and white, binary logic: me or the A, sober or not, success or failure, "with the program" or not, in recovery or in denial, enabling or not, etc. However, the world is not black and white and consists largely of shades of grey. Such heuristics serve to simplify, so can be very helpful for people who need simplification, but can also be very exclusionary, rigid, and off putting to people who both want to help themselves AND their As.
and that Life that needed to be saved was MINE - not the many alcoholics/addicts in my life."
Not to question your circumstances in particular, but in a generic sense, why can't both lives be saved? What I have found, and what I think Jessica might also be finding, is that al/nar-anon seems to employ extremely black and white, binary logic: me or the A, sober or not, success or failure, "with the program" or not, in recovery or in denial, enabling or not, etc. However, the world is not black and white and consists largely of shades of grey. Such heuristics serve to simplify, so can be very helpful for people who need simplification, but can also be very exclusionary, rigid, and off putting to people who both want to help themselves AND their As.
As I (and many others) have mentioned countless times, I take pieces of several programs and use them heavily. But somehow the conversation keeps being brought back to absolutes... it's like arguing religions .
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by hopeful4
I also think it depends on what group you are in. For myself, I attended Celebrate Recovery. I went in two different places as some nights worked better than others. The atmosphere is different in each place just by the nature of who attends. That also means the discussions that happen are a lot different. I like that, I like to mix it up.
People get way too focused on what "program" they want to use. I have taken and applied practices from all of them. You just have to find a good group that you are comfortable with, that should be really really high on the importance list.
People get way too focused on what "program" they want to use. I have taken and applied practices from all of them. You just have to find a good group that you are comfortable with, that should be really really high on the importance list.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
the secular forum is a great place to explore many non-12 step programs. and can be explored without having to bash on Alanon for its supposed faults and shortcomings. don't you think if we knew HOW to save the ADDICT we'd share that tidbit?????
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
Originally Posted by alterity
... in a generic sense, why can't both lives be saved?
My opinion only: getting stuck on programs is just another obsession.
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Burgh
Posts: 1,991
Originally Posted by JessicaLives
Im not sure its the people, its more the general ideas they share. Ive picked up some helpful things but I think they only have a box of goodies and once you open it, and look at whats there then it doesnt get deeper. Im not interested in the 12 steps because its about working on control issues and letting go. It all ties in and makes sense if your life is out of control, or would probably be good for ending a relationship. I am not done looking in their box, but most of you are validating what I see is correct on whats they offer.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by cece1960
I think that everyone of us hopes that both lives can be saved, but it took a long time for me to figure out who's life I had the power of saving. None of this ( no program, no school of thought) has to be black and white, unless you make it that way.
As I (and many others) have mentioned countless times, I take pieces of several programs and use them heavily. But somehow the conversation keeps being brought back to absolutes... it's like arguing religions .
As I (and many others) have mentioned countless times, I take pieces of several programs and use them heavily. But somehow the conversation keeps being brought back to absolutes... it's like arguing religions .
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by Chino
I could only choose to save my life; I did not/do not have the power or ability to make that choice for my daughter. Thankfully she eventually chose that for herself.
My opinion only: getting stuck on programs is just another obsession.
My opinion only: getting stuck on programs is just another obsession.
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