Feeling Guilty

Old 05-07-2015, 11:22 AM
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Feeling Guilty

I don't think I've ever posted to this part of the forums, but something has come up....

I used to work with a lot of adolescent substance-abusers. There was one I got very close to -- I was the only person he'd work with, and it was hardly working, it was a lot of just sitting together while he talked.

Over the 15 years or so since then, he's contacted me several times. Once years ago I "paid" him $100 for art he never delivered. Mostly he's written me intermittently coherent emails.

Due to a freak concatenation of things in the universe, I saw him this past January. I still like him as much as ever -- he makes me laugh, which most people can't do. But his teeth are rotted away from meth (which he says he's quit, he says he doesn't do the "bad drugs" anymore), and he's probably always high, and if you talk with him more than 10 minutes he starts going on about the god he is in the outer dimensions he visits when he's tripping on LSD & DMT.

So. He's been emailing me a lot lately. I know he's miserable, and looks to me for something -- he says a friend, I think it's always a teacher, maybe partly a mother. He probably doesn't have anyone who cares much about him, just drug-users and customers who let him move from one couch to another.

So. I wrote him today and said there's no relationship between us now. I didn't even say "unless you do such and such." Just nothing, because we see the world differently.

I'm not sure if I'm posting this for advice or affirmation or what. Just I feel crappy about it. I'll always think of him as he was when he was 15. Now he's a poor madman & a parasite on civilization, but he still desperately wants to be loved and he knows it. It's so sad, but I can't help him at all.
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Old 05-07-2015, 11:30 AM
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I'm sorry, Courage. That is sad

Don't know what else to say.

You did best by taking care of you though. I can understand this kind of guilt. I had to detach from my alcoholic mother and it made me feel sick and guilty.

I had to do it for my own sanity. And had she been in her right mind, she would've agreed. On some level, I'm sure she did.

*hugs*
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Old 05-07-2015, 11:33 AM
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I get it.
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Old 05-07-2015, 11:44 AM
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((((Bunny)))) we do what we can, you've done your best. I understand the guilt. You can only give what's there. It's hard, I know.

love from LeeLee
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Old 05-07-2015, 11:56 AM
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Thanks, guys. I usually detach pretty easily, but I have a lot of sympathy for people who get screwed up as children and it really wrenches me to know that some of them just never recover. Is why I got out of that business. And he was special.
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Old 05-07-2015, 12:07 PM
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It's sad but it's probably best to block him.

He wants to be a parasite on you most likely.


Originally Posted by courage2 View Post
I don't think I've ever posted to this part of the forums, but something has come up....

I used to work with a lot of adolescent substance-abusers. There was one I got very close to -- I was the only person he'd work with, and it was hardly working, it was a lot of just sitting together while he talked.

Over the 15 years or so since then, he's contacted me several times. Once years ago I "paid" him $100 for art he never delivered. Mostly he's written me intermittently coherent emails.

Due to a freak concatenation of things in the universe, I saw him this past January. I still like him as much as ever -- he makes me laugh, which most people can't do. But his teeth are rotted away from meth (which he says he's quit, he says he doesn't do the "bad drugs" anymore), and he's probably always high, and if you talk with him more than 10 minutes he starts going on about the god he is in the outer dimensions he visits when he's tripping on LSD & DMT.

So. He's been emailing me a lot lately. I know he's miserable, and looks to me for something -- he says a friend, I think it's always a teacher, maybe partly a mother. He probably doesn't have anyone who cares much about him, just drug-users and customers who let him move from one couch to another.

So. I wrote him today and said there's no relationship between us now. I didn't even say "unless you do such and such." Just nothing, because we see the world differently.

I'm not sure if I'm posting this for advice or affirmation or what. Just I feel crappy about it. I'll always think of him as he was when he was 15. Now he's a poor madman & a parasite on civilization, but he still desperately wants to be loved and he knows it. It's so sad, but I can't help him at all.
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Old 05-07-2015, 12:22 PM
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I think it's sometimes the judgements we hold about people that can feel so painful.

I'm not saying that they are not true... I just notice that when I judge my ex and label him certain ways (like a waster, loser drug addict for example) that I immediately feel bad.

The other day I was thinking about him, and I was noticing that we all have some innocence in us.

I noticed that to me he is someone who is/was a kind man, sometimes he's funny, and he is a drug addict, and all that comes with that.

That is my reality and my experience of it, however the second statement feels better to me. The first one is full of (my) harsh judgements and makes me feel bad.

This has nothing to do with him. It's about me.

Then I can also accept that he makes his choices, and I just happen not to agree with them, meaning I would not make the same choices. And I can respect that he does. And he has the same resources available to him that I do, he could choose something different, people do all the time.

I can choose not to see it as sad because that is disempowering to him (he has a choice therefor on some level this is what he wants/is choosing). Or I can choose to see it as sad and that it is sad FROM MY PERSPECTIVE.

I don't think we can ever truly know what it's like for someone else.

AND there may just be things I cannot see, beyond my comprehension. Not to go too far out here, and how do I know the world doesn't need someone like him to demonstrate how NOT to do things...

I don't know, I just find that sometimes this can open my mind a little and feels a bit less painful.

I think in Al Anon they speak about it as 'Letting Go And Letting God' or surrendering to our higher power.

And that how I see him is just how I see him. It's my view.

There may be things I don't know and I am willing to live in the question.

It doesn't mean I would choose to be around him.

And maybe there is something more. Then it doesn't feel like such a waste. And I can respect him and love him (from afar) as a fellow human being.

Does that make any sense?

It's kind of hard for me to describe.
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Old 05-07-2015, 12:37 PM
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CarmenLove, it makes perfect sense. I don't think his way of seeing things is wrong or bad although to the extent that he can only communicate fully with other gods, it must be a difficult way to live -- just that his way is not consistent with mine, and I can't relate to him, or help him, or do anything with him, even understand him from the point of view of my current choices about how to live in the world. As an addict/alcoholic in recovery myself, which he knows, and which doesn't stop him from inviting me to use DMT.

I don't disrespect his choices and I enjoy his wit and wildness, but I can't allow myself to enjoy them because of all the other stuff that comes with them.

I've made a lot of those choices myself.

At the same time, it bothers me in a different way to see irrevocable damage, brain damage, self-inflicted sometimes but tolerated by American society, that begins when people are just children through neglect, abuse, and drug and alcohol abuse by them and everyone around them -- to see human lives that barely have a chance to reach health or security from the get-go. To me, that's a damn shame.
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Old 05-07-2015, 12:54 PM
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For folks I have no control over, I
place them into the hands of my Higher
Power, God of my understanding.

In doing so, it will take the burden
of worry, resentments, etc off my
shoulders and take care of whats
more important in my life which
is continueing to remain and live
a sober life incorporating steps
and principles to live by each day.
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Old 05-07-2015, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by courage2 View Post
At the same time, it bothers me in a different way to see irrevocable damage, brain damage, self-inflicted sometimes but tolerated by American society, that begins when people are just children through neglect, abuse, and drug and alcohol abuse by them and everyone around them -- to see human lives that barely have a chance to reach health or security from the get-go. To me, that's a damn shame.
Yes I can relate to that too.
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Old 05-08-2015, 09:21 AM
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Thought I ought to check in to admit that my disconnecting was a total fail.

I did try to set boundaries:

If nonetheless you wish to maintain a relationship, I will communicate with you on your terms as long as you respect my terms:

1) If you tell me that you are writing when high or that you did write me something when you were high, the conversation is terminated.
2) I don't want to hear about your theories about afterlives or realms beyond death or the like.

That's pretty much it, I think.
Right now, he's confining himself to sending me photoshopped images of trees.
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Old 05-08-2015, 09:50 AM
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Only now saw this thread, courage. I just wanted to say that I understand -- both sides, I think. I was that "student" a few times, not as damaged as your friend, but I do get this kind of relationship deeply. You mentioned DMT... well, I have not had much craving or nostalgia for alcohol for a good while, but I do struggle with thoughts about psychedelics periodically.

I've had many students myself and encountered similar ones also, so I got to know this also from the other side. Again, not the very screwed up ones you are describing, but young people who remind me of myself strongly... and of course they can sense this, no matter how I try to hide it, and they are drawn to me often. You probably know just as well as I do that these relationships are heavy with psychological projections.

I just want to say that I really, really understand this, including the guilt.
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Old 05-08-2015, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by haennie View Post
I have not had much craving or nostalgia for alcohol for a good while, but I do struggle with thoughts about psychedelics periodically.
Me too. And other substances that I haven't thought about in a long time. Isn't that odd?
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Old 05-08-2015, 10:31 AM
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How will you know if he is high when writing? I mean he's an addict. That pretty much is...always?
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Old 05-08-2015, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by biminiblue View Post
How will you know if he is high when writing? I mean he's an addict. That pretty much is...always?
Yup. I know that, he knows that. It's only if he writes about it. Pot smokers and hallucinogenic users are particularly irritating in my experiences about proselytizing use.
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Old 05-08-2015, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by courage2 View Post
I don't think I've ever posted to this part of the forums, but something has come up....

I used to work with a lot of adolescent substance-abusers. There was one I got very close to -- I was the only person he'd work with, and it was hardly working, it was a lot of just sitting together while he talked.

Over the 15 years or so since then, he's contacted me several times. Once years ago I "paid" him $100 for art he never delivered. Mostly he's written me intermittently coherent emails.

Due to a freak concatenation of things in the universe, I saw him this past January. I still like him as much as ever -- he makes me laugh, which most people can't do. But his teeth are rotted away from meth (which he says he's quit, he says he doesn't do the "bad drugs" anymore), and he's probably always high, and if you talk with him more than 10 minutes he starts going on about the god he is in the outer dimensions he visits when he's tripping on LSD & DMT.

So. He's been emailing me a lot lately. I know he's miserable, and looks to me for something -- he says a friend, I think it's always a teacher, maybe partly a mother. He probably doesn't have anyone who cares much about him, just drug-users and customers who let him move from one couch to another.

So. I wrote him today and said there's no relationship between us now. I didn't even say "unless you do such and such." Just nothing, because we see the world differently.

I'm not sure if I'm posting this for advice or affirmation or what. Just I feel crappy about it. I'll always think of him as he was when he was 15. Now he's a poor madman & a parasite on civilization, but he still desperately wants to be loved and he knows it. It's so sad, but I can't help him at all.
I would feel pretty crappy if I had to tell someone that, too. The fact that you do shows that you have a heart, and you do care for him.

However, you also know you can't fix him. He's on a very solitary path. I hope someday he chooses a better one.
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Old 05-10-2015, 04:10 PM
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Bottom line is we cannot change anyone, only ourselves. Hard enough for me to believe when its my AS and I still struggle with that. I hate to say it, but given his active using, he probably is just looking for someone to lean on or use, especially since you've shown you care. Kind of cold, but I would close the door. You've done what you could. BTW....how did he get your email? Protect yourself and Let Go and Let God.
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Old 05-10-2015, 07:53 PM
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The most heartbreaking moments I
remember about the addict I once
cared about was how very grateful
she for having someone listen to
the horrifically improbable endless
stories. I felt like (actually knew) that
I was the last person in her 'former life'
that would give her the time of day. I felt
like I was the last strand of the last rope
that reminded her of her former middle
class existence-----whilst knowing the
truth ......that she was marooned in
this one way trip to hell.

I had always hoped that she never
suspected WHY I was moving the money
transfer closer and closer to the beginning
of each interaction.

I just didn't want to listen any more.
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Old 09-30-2015, 05:44 PM
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Update.

Unbelievably, we continue to correspond, and he follows my rules pretty well. I think I only forced the termination of one thread, because of a picture he sent me.

Vaya, he got my email because he knows my name and I have a public web presence.

Vale, he asked for money once. He wanted to know why I refused, but accepted my reasons without complaint, once we were clear, and hasn't brought up money again, so far.

It's ridiculous, but from his point of view, I'm pretty sure I'm an important friend. He's 35, but he's still a mixed-up drug-addled kid to me.

My big question now, is how do I tell him that if he wants to win the girl of his dreams, he should get his meth-ruined teeth fixed?
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Old 10-02-2015, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by courage2 View Post
Update.

Unbelievably, we continue to correspond, and he follows my rules pretty well. I think I only forced the termination of one thread, because of a picture he sent me.

Vaya, he got my email because he knows my name and I have a public web presence.

Vale, he asked for money once. He wanted to know why I refused, but accepted my reasons without complaint, once we were clear, and hasn't brought up money again, so far.

It's ridiculous, but from his point of view, I'm pretty sure I'm an important friend. He's 35, but he's still a mixed-up drug-addled kid to me.

My big question now, is how do I tell him that if he wants to win the girl of his dreams, he should get his meth-ruined teeth fixed?



Why would you want to do that?
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