vaya

If I call 911 he will surely be arrested. If I call emergency psych it can take up to hours. I tried to get him to just sit down, but he wouldn't. I haven't made it absolute about not staying here tonight, I may see how it goes or else offer him the car so I know he's close and can sleep it off. I'd still rather wait until Monday, so at least he has options of a shelter or something when things are open. I feel like I'm responding to my younger son's frustration, but I don't want to lose AS seeing him in this state.

Impurrfect

Vaya - I'm so sorry for what you are going through.

This may sound harsh, but it is said with love - your youngest son found a needle in the bathroom. If your AS does sleep in your car and decides to shoot up, there is a great possibility of you getting stuck with a needle he attempts to "hide" somewhere.

This is your life, sweetie, and the life of your youngest son being put at jeopardy.

If AS is suicidal, call authorities. Heroin and xanax is a bad mix and they can really get agitated.

I have no doubt you love AS, but you know you can't fix this. I'm an RA and I was homeless and quite resourceful at finding a place to go when "home" was no longer an option.

Sending you big hugs and prayers,

Amy

hopeful4

HI Vaya,

Just checking in to see how you are doing today?

XXX

irisgardens

vaya...sending love and prayers to you in this hard situation.

vaya

Dear Hopeful,
Thanks for checking in. I told AS no more staying at the house...that it's temporary and I don't want to get in trouble with management. He's angry because younger son gets to stay there, altho I have lied a bit and say he's only there now and then. AS is so psychologically fragile that I'm afraid to tell him how he got me evicted from last place. I did tell him that it is a problem if he stays with me, it'snot ok with management, and that I don't want anything to jeopardize my having a place to live and that if I don't have a place to live, I'm no good to him or anyone or myself.
I may let him stay in car tonight so he'll make his appts tomorrow. I did find someone who can help him get into detox if he wants to turn this around again and offered a sober living as we had discussed. I may give that one more chance and if he blows that, then I am completely done. He will be in the streets most of the time this week, so he won't have the comfort of coming to my house on demand.
I know I am still trying to turn him around and save him, altho I have told him he has to save himself. he is in need of serious mental health treatment and rehab. Maybe he just isn't done using yet and hasn't experienced enough pain to stop.

It is absolutely exhausting me. Every effort I make to help him and help convince him of the right thing to do takes more out of me and my precious time and life.
tomorrow I may give him the money order to try and get a bed. He knows what is available. Rehabs are hard to get in in LA because there are huge wait lists everywhere. There are very few, if any, places he can go. That's why I paid $1500 for the first month of the place where he was. I won't do that again. Maybe a $500 sober living, but I can't keep throwing my money away.
He says he'll go to rehab if he gets arrested and the courts order him to. Imagine that! Maybe that will happen.
I'm sick of it all and sick of me tryin gto save him, but he is so mentally off I worry what he'll do. Today I told him I wouldnt' give him all of his money because I didn't want him to hurt himself. I also told him point blank that it was too painful for me to watch what he is doing to himself & said, 'What mother wants to see her son using heroin and know fully how he is destroying himself?'
I let him know I care, and may give 1 more chance in sober living, but that only he can decide what he wants to do.
I'm obviously still upset. I know he can't stay with me anymore and I won't let that happen. It is upsetting younger son, but he is 23 and lives with me rent free and smokes his weed, which I don't like. He's a good kid and is making a future for himself and things are coming together for him. He has seen his brother go through this since he was 14 years old and is sick of it.
So, thank you for asking how I am. I am a mess, but know I don't want to and won't live like this anymore. If trying to save my son, which I can't really do anyway, takes so much out of me, I will have to let go and let God and realize the futility of my ways.

Freedom1990

God is either everything or he is nothing.

Sending you gentle hugs of support, vaya.

vaya

Thank you all for your support and hugs and wise words. it does help. It's still complicated, but only if I let it be. I am starting to fear less and trust God in this. I have to and it is the only way.

Ann

I hear your struggle and my heart and prayers go out for you.

You are very close, hovering on the edge, hopefully the courage will come, Vaya. Please don't expect rational thinking from an active addict. You will need to make your decision for you and your other son, and leave the rest to God.

Hugs

Ilovemysonjj

Dearest Vaya, I have been where you are, living in the stifling fear of the "what if" and also under the illusion that anything I could do would somehow affect the outcome. I dropped money and hid it to keep JJ's head above water. I believed nonsensical stories and continued to buy him things on Walmart.com only to find out later he returned them all for the cash. Finally I had to turn my head away. He fell hard this time. He called me desperate and in full withdrawals. The only thing I offered was getting him back in detox and then a ride to Salvation Army. This was at HIS request however, not mine.
Just dropped him off yesterday and I told him don't bother calling me if he leaves. I believe now that I am POWERLESS and that provides some comfort. I also believe deeply in God and His grace and love will carry me through.
Hugs
TT

irisgardens

Sending love and prayers, Vaya.

I hear that you are trying very hard...and that will help you get to where you need to be...I hope sooner than later...as with 3 serial addict daughters...and doing work for me as hard and fast as I could to survive and 'help' in the most effective way I could figure out...with this third one...and with other addicts...have realized that there are commonalities in what they say and do and how they act.

You have supported me a great deal and know that I am struggling as well...what I am doing though is to remind myself that every time I let that addict in...more chaos and problems ensue...and that it is like the movie...'the never ending story'...the addict may change...but the process and how it affects me only gets worse.

My daughter is 'out there'...whether in San Diego (where she became full blown) or San Francisco...it doesn't matter anymore. She chooses to be 'out there' because I set a boundary with her...no using in the house...and she did...and although I didn't become aware of it until going through more than a year of struggling to 'find her', to 'bring her home and help her (was in a foreign country but that is another story), and then to 'help her with detox' and then to 'get her into rehab - had insurance so could do that...no longer the case' and then, after praying the whole time she would get arrested...asking the judge, da and pd to 'help her by getting her into drug program diversion' in addition to the petty theft diversion they wanted...and although the pd did not...judge and da did...another 6 months...and then she didn't do it...not any of it...never stopped using the whole time...but I was so emotionally engaged in 'helping' that I only put all the pieces together afterwards as I entered therapy, had to majorly rehaul my meds, lost my job, and yadayadayada...coming here probably saved me...it may be hard now...but at least I am ambulatory.

This daughter lived on the street in San Francisco and San Diego...it was only winter in San Francisco that phased her into increasing her drug related activities to live in the Tenderloin at a transient hotel...this is major bad in San Francisco...all major cities have them...I worked there in a non-profit and I know that it is even worse than my agency's clients...intravenous drug users and gay men with aids. She has been doing this for 4-5 years...

I am worn out.

I don't think there is any better time than any other to getting those words out...with my first daughter and 2nd...years ago....I used to spend weeks putting my words together...working with therapists for the 'absolute correct wording'...and to sound loving and firm at the same time. This is where Anvil helps me...and I am getting better through her posts...you are doing this to protect your younger son and yourself from the major consequences of addiction. I love my daughter...but can no longer be in the same room with anyone who is using...I get sick and go down for the count...my mind may not know it but the strength just leaves my body and I have to sit or lay down and recovery myself...that, I am told, is what happens to codependents...and it too, is a disease...progressive and ultimately fatal...in ways that are different but no less destructive.

I am sending prayers and love...repeating myself but it is true. When they don't want the help and are not willing...they are not going to get it no matter who offers it...they have to be willing to do the steps for themselves...

Live in a completely unwilling family and came from one...addiction is a terrible disease...but I do not want you to go down for the count.

vaya

I am getting stronger and ready to ask him to move on. Maybe I had to live out my fantasy that if I gave him a chance he would turn this around, but he has done absolutely nothing to help himself. This week I will set a definite limit. He must talk to someone about getting into detox, which he has avoided, even if I have make sure he makes the call with me there. If he goes in he has a chance at sober recovery for at least a month. If he doesn't want to do this, or find a better solution then there is nothing more I can do for him. He's laying on the couch in my studio apt, where my AS already lives, in a dream like state. It makes me sick to see what a parasite he has become with no interest in doing anything for himself.
When he was in rehab all he complained about was being allowed to get a job and was pursuing housing options. Now he's not there and he hasn't even picked up the computer once to see about anything. He isn't going to his mental health appts, housing apps, or anything. After all he's been through and all I've been through the reality is painfully clear. He claims he doesn't want to be homeless, but if he does nothing he has no choice. He know this is very temporary, but all he know how to do is leave or be thrown out with a bunch of anger and resentment. he refuses to take any responsibility for himself. I absolutely cannot watch this much more.
Any words of continued support are very helpful.

chicory

Vaya, he also knows how hard it is for you to toss him out. In his state of mind, he isn't going to do much, it seems.
I bet he will try a lot harder when he does not have your couch to zone out on.. and I say that with all love and respect for you. I know how hard it is.

since he once realized the need to do more, he will again, I am betting.
I am betting too, that if you put him out, he will get his self set up into rehab.

when he is there with you, he does not have to do anything. He may be counting on you not to be able to make him leave.
Of course, you know all these things, but its hard to use your head when your heart keeps getting in the way, and seeing them as our children, not the men that they really are.. in age anyway.

prayers that you find the strength to do what you want to do. He may just stay in a stupor until his 'vacation' is up. its a shame that they abuse us,,, their parents...but they will. they don't feel about us as we feel about them.. we gave birth to them, we are protective of them... but sometimes, often, they are much more competent than we will 'see'.

big hugs to you...
chicory

vaya

Update...well it's been 3 weeks now..AS still in denial, but yet continues to shoot up in my bathroom. I've told him staying here is temporary and he needs to continue with his appts, mental health, and applying for housing. When he was in rehab all he wanted to do was work. Now he's out of rehab and all he does is get high. He did send a few job responses out online one day and finally took care of a couple of appts yesterday. I offered sober living, but he has to be sober to get in one. I had him call someone about detox, who can get him in fast, now he's depressed and getting cold feet.

I have told him it's hard for me to see him when he's high and when he disrespects me by shooting drugs in my house. he has basically not complied with my requests, except that he hasn't been making scenes and agrees to smoke his cigarettes away from my door, so manager won't know he's staying here.

I've gently put it in such a way that he can choose detox and sober living, even if temporary, so he can get a job and a place to live, or he knows the alternative. He doesn't really want to go to detox, and it did come up quickly and won't cost me anything this time.

I'm still basically giving him a chance to save himself. I've told him I can't control if he uses or not, but he may want to at least stay clean long enough to get into a more stable situation, regardless of what he chooses after that.

It's so sad, because he acts so wounded and doesn't understand why he can't stay here, yet continues to do the very thing that's not ok. While his brother does smoke weed, but never in the house, it is different. I never know if AS will get violent and loud and crazy again, like when he runs out of money or has not options.

Most importantly is that I can't let mgmnt know he's staying here. to visit for a weekend or so is one thing, but I already 'snuck' in my younger son, and that's been ok, especially since he's rarely here and out of town for his work usually.

I can't have AS smoke cigs on property. What if he starts nodding out and a neighbor or manager sees him. He doesn't realize how he appears. Not to mention how his behavior got me kicked out of last apt because of his behavior. I have told him I won't jeopardize my security of a home. I can't.

He really doesn't get how he looks in public when he's loaded and doesn't understand why people react to him like they do! Junkie's are scary to many people. It's also painful to see them nod out. I can't take seeing my son like a vegetable. He doesn't get it.

So....sorry for my ramble...but....I'm going through with the detox and will drive him to his appointment. Unfortunately he's supposed to see psychiatrist next day, but will have to reschedule or lose detox oppt. He knows the time for him to go is coming and that once he goes to detox his 'visit' is done.

I wish it was different and I had a bigger space than a studio and it wasn't a problem if he stayed here. But the problem is he doesn't really do much when he's here...it's too comfortable. I'm offering him a chance to get help and sober living to stay clean for a bit and have a place to stay. I can't put him in a room for rent if he's still using. he won't even look into it himself.

Well detox will hopefully give him some clarity. If he wants to be resentful that's his problem. He can leave detox if he wants too and live in the street or figure it out. he didn't have much of a plan when he used in rehab.

Am I wrong to encourage detox? He can refuse and then leave.he's often doing things to make me happy rather than to help himself. He's lucky to have someone who gives a damn and is willing to help. Or should I just show him the door now? I figured offering detox and sober living was the best compromise for him. I wish he'd go back into rehab, but that's not going to happen. ....its so sad...

zoso77

Vaya...I don't have children, so I can't exactly relate to how awful this much be for you. So please forgive me when I ask why you are allowing someone to use illicit drugs in your home?

Have you been in touch with any of our resident moms?

sknghlp

Vaya, my sister has been using heroin for 6 months and has burned though $15000 in that time. I caught her using in my home when I was trying to help her get sober. I have two teenage boys and had to kick her out. I was so worried dcf would take my children away... the one thing I realized is that she has to want to quit. I can not help her. I can only help myself. And that's what I'm learning to do. My spouse is also an addict.. I can't help him either,been trying for years. So all I can tell you is try to do the same. I have located al-anon and nar-anon meetings to attend to get perception on how to fix the only person I can.. me!.. do not stand for abuse in your home. I have allowed my kids to be affected by my sisters and my spouse and I should have stopped it years ago. Don't be afraid to stand up for what you know is right.

chicory

Vaya, I have not had experience with an adult child on heroin, but I have a son who at one time jeopardized my apartment , through his being violent on vodka, and staying stone drunk for days. Being loud, leaving doors open to the outside , smoking and dragging in burning butts on his shoes.... I did call and have him arrested , as I could not take it anymore and he was endangering me, and punching holes in walls, and screaming. The night they took him to jail I was able to get a nights sleep, finally. I would do it again, if he did that again. No one has the right to terrorize us in our home, when we are helping them, keeping them off the street. I love my son with my whole heart, and it was hard, but it was the only choice I had.

Here is a quote from an earlier post of yours , a few back from this one.

( He says he'll go to rehab if he gets arrested and the courts order him to.)

May I ask- is he doing something which can get him arrested? Would it not be safer for him to be in jail, not doing heroin,, which CAN kill him? And if he will then go to rehab, would that not be what you want for him anyway?
I am just wondering why you cannot see that his using is endangering his life as well as your ability to stay where you are living? Perhaps it would be very good for him to be arrested? He would see that he cannot do this to you, to his self, and that he has to do SOMETHING.
forgive me if that seems mean or blunt.. I am asking because I think it might be the only solution to your situation. And perhaps you will keep him from hurting his self further with the heroin. Many are dying from it, and I know you know that, but your situation seems to have you beaten down and unable to make a move...I send hugs, and I know how much pain you must be in.

chicory

GardenMama

Vaya, I have to agree with Chicory here. And others. You need to keep your son out of your house, regardless of where he goes. You are in danger of all kinds of things, not to mention losing your home. Dealers. Thugs. Other problems you may not even be aware of. YOU have clearly done all you can. He is old enough to figure it out. If he can find heroin without having any money, he can find a place to sleep at night. If he is caught shooting up somewhere in public, maybe he will be arrested.

Putting my daughter out of the house last May, knowing she would be living by the river, high and in danger, was gut-wrenching, to say the least. I imagined her overdose and death every night. I lived through this, and so did she. It is the hardest thing for mothers of addicts to finally accept: we cannot make our child choose to get sober. Oh, we sure try! Over and over again, we do, and sometimes it seems to work. But heroin is a force no mother can beat on behalf of her child. I've tried and watched countless others try.

Give him up to his Higher Power, Vaya. Cup your hands and toss his spirit up to God, the universe, whomever greater than you. Do this simple thing as many times a day as needed. And then protect your home from heroin. (It helped me to think of it that way, as opposed to "kicking my daughter out." If he gets violent, call 911.

We are here for you. Be brave.

hopeful4

Tight, tight hugs Vaya. Sending much love and many hugs to you.

vaya

AS going to detox this afternoon. he knows he can't come back here after.will consider sober living for him or he can talk to people at detox about options. I've vacillated between anger and detaching with love.Told him it's time he figure out what he wants to do with his life and if he wants help. Being here doesn't work.he just winds up using when he's here for whatever reasons. I will support him to a degree in efforts to get and stay clean, but only he can choose how he wants to live his life.

he still won't participate in the process. Expects me to do all the footwork to find a place after detox.told him he has to talk to people. Says he's too anxious and depressed. Told him then perhaps he needs more intensive care, but that I can't help him anymore with those things. He has to work with the people who can.

It's a sad and hard day, but I'm glad we're at this point.I know he wishes he could come back here.
BTW...I am mad at younger son for smoking weed.Will have to come to terms with that soon too. Not fair to AS that younger brother smokes weed and doesn't have to seek help, although heroin is very different. Just more internal conflicts and decisions I have yet to make.

Pray that I can do this today with love and pray we find something for him after detox. I truly pray he can turn things around for himself, even if for a little while. I love him so much, but am truly powerless over his disease.

zoso77

That was a brave thing you did...