Just Hopeless
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: East Coast of Florida
Posts: 61
Just Hopeless
It's been a while since I posted. I don't think there's any hope at all for my daughter at this point. She has been back in jail again since June, and will soon be going to prison. She violated her community control (house arrest) and probation. She was involved in breaking into cars and selling stolen goods. And who knows what else that I don't know about.
There is no remorse or contrition that I can discern. Although she is not doing drugs in jail (as far as I know), she does not seem to comprehend or care about the consequences of her actions. Jail is just another place she's living.
The things she has done are unimaginable to me. She has shot up, snorted, or ingested every drug you can imagine. She has been in ICU with pneumonia and infections resulting from her drug use. She has lied, stolen, burglarized, and assaulted, and has been in and out of jail so many times, I can't get the timeline right. She was sentenced to 8 months in a DOC ordered facility followed by 2 years of community control and 5 years of drug probation. When I caught her shooting up a week after she got out, I made her go to rehab that her insurance was supposed to cover. After that, she got into a sober living home. Those last two were both complete jokes. She never so much as had a psychological evaluation and at both places the untrained staff and residents, including her, were using and were involved in criminal activity. But at least she had a job and had a place to live. Then the sober living facility was raided by the FBI and state police and shut down for insurance fraud.
I was contacted by the sheriff's department in the town where the sober living home was and told that if I didn't come get her and deliver her to the probation office here, she'd be arrested immediately for violating probation. So I did. She was sick in bed with a bad cold and I felt bad for her. Another mistake. She got a job here within walking distance of my house but was let go after a month when her background check came back. She was working at Subway, which was the same place she was working for when she was in sober living. The Subway there had an arrangement with the home; the Subway here does not hire convicted felons. I can't blame them. She was at my house for only a month before she was incarcerated again. I went through her computer after she left and found that she had been running a tumblr site for drug addicts, giving other addicts information about how to mix different types of drugs and how to use them. She had ordered devices off the internet which would demagnetize tags on items at stores so she could shoplift better. She had purchased insulin syringes. She had done a search about how to open my safe. She was selling used underwear on craigslist. She got dental work done and stole special prescription paper from her dental office.
Most recently, she was put in solitary confinement in jail for participating in something illicit. I don't know what.
I went to see a lawyer- not to get her out of jail but to find out what to expect when she goes to court. He told me that she could possibly go to prison for 5-7 years, and that if the public defender told her it would be 2 years, that was pretty good. The lawyer told me that if I retained him, he would charge me $12,000, and he would first schedule an evaluation with a forensic psychiatrist to determine if she was competent to proceed, because based on what I told him, he feels she may be a sociopath and should be treated. If she was found incompetent, she would be court ordered to another rehab facility followed by a stay at the state hospital for treatment for a year or so. Since she has never really gotten a dual diagnosis, and seems to be just fine, I find it hard to believe that she could be found unable to proceed.
But then what? No matter which way things go, that is my question. She will get out of jail or prison sooner or later, or the state mental hospital, and then what?
There are days I can think of nothing else. There is nothing I can do. I run into people all the time whose children went to school with her and were friends of hers, and their children are done with college and grad school, and some are now in Phd programs. They've traveled abroad and are married and/or having children of their own. I don't really care what they think about my daughter, but I cringe to think of running into them. They ask about her. They all feel that she has turned out the way she has because of parenting issues. They have no clue. She will be almost 30 when she gets out of jail, and believe me, she is learning nothing good in there. My heart breaks and all she cares about is how soon she'll be getting out. I know for a fact that whether she gets out sooner or later, she will be right back to using and thieving. She seems to have no moral compass whatsoever. I am just a wreck most of the time.
For those of you who read this; thanks for reading. Sometimes I can't seem to get through the day without letting some of it out. Thank you, and please pray for a miracle for my beautiful, damaged girl.
There is no remorse or contrition that I can discern. Although she is not doing drugs in jail (as far as I know), she does not seem to comprehend or care about the consequences of her actions. Jail is just another place she's living.
The things she has done are unimaginable to me. She has shot up, snorted, or ingested every drug you can imagine. She has been in ICU with pneumonia and infections resulting from her drug use. She has lied, stolen, burglarized, and assaulted, and has been in and out of jail so many times, I can't get the timeline right. She was sentenced to 8 months in a DOC ordered facility followed by 2 years of community control and 5 years of drug probation. When I caught her shooting up a week after she got out, I made her go to rehab that her insurance was supposed to cover. After that, she got into a sober living home. Those last two were both complete jokes. She never so much as had a psychological evaluation and at both places the untrained staff and residents, including her, were using and were involved in criminal activity. But at least she had a job and had a place to live. Then the sober living facility was raided by the FBI and state police and shut down for insurance fraud.
I was contacted by the sheriff's department in the town where the sober living home was and told that if I didn't come get her and deliver her to the probation office here, she'd be arrested immediately for violating probation. So I did. She was sick in bed with a bad cold and I felt bad for her. Another mistake. She got a job here within walking distance of my house but was let go after a month when her background check came back. She was working at Subway, which was the same place she was working for when she was in sober living. The Subway there had an arrangement with the home; the Subway here does not hire convicted felons. I can't blame them. She was at my house for only a month before she was incarcerated again. I went through her computer after she left and found that she had been running a tumblr site for drug addicts, giving other addicts information about how to mix different types of drugs and how to use them. She had ordered devices off the internet which would demagnetize tags on items at stores so she could shoplift better. She had purchased insulin syringes. She had done a search about how to open my safe. She was selling used underwear on craigslist. She got dental work done and stole special prescription paper from her dental office.
Most recently, she was put in solitary confinement in jail for participating in something illicit. I don't know what.
I went to see a lawyer- not to get her out of jail but to find out what to expect when she goes to court. He told me that she could possibly go to prison for 5-7 years, and that if the public defender told her it would be 2 years, that was pretty good. The lawyer told me that if I retained him, he would charge me $12,000, and he would first schedule an evaluation with a forensic psychiatrist to determine if she was competent to proceed, because based on what I told him, he feels she may be a sociopath and should be treated. If she was found incompetent, she would be court ordered to another rehab facility followed by a stay at the state hospital for treatment for a year or so. Since she has never really gotten a dual diagnosis, and seems to be just fine, I find it hard to believe that she could be found unable to proceed.
But then what? No matter which way things go, that is my question. She will get out of jail or prison sooner or later, or the state mental hospital, and then what?
There are days I can think of nothing else. There is nothing I can do. I run into people all the time whose children went to school with her and were friends of hers, and their children are done with college and grad school, and some are now in Phd programs. They've traveled abroad and are married and/or having children of their own. I don't really care what they think about my daughter, but I cringe to think of running into them. They ask about her. They all feel that she has turned out the way she has because of parenting issues. They have no clue. She will be almost 30 when she gets out of jail, and believe me, she is learning nothing good in there. My heart breaks and all she cares about is how soon she'll be getting out. I know for a fact that whether she gets out sooner or later, she will be right back to using and thieving. She seems to have no moral compass whatsoever. I am just a wreck most of the time.
For those of you who read this; thanks for reading. Sometimes I can't seem to get through the day without letting some of it out. Thank you, and please pray for a miracle for my beautiful, damaged girl.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
I will be praying for her. I am so sorry.
I believe that all you can do is perhaps beg the judge to insist she get mental help, while incarcerated. I know that drugs can make people do things like this, but she does not seem to show remorse... maybe there is an underlying mental issue that needs addressed. She probably won't be doing drugs, in prison, one would hope....and that would be a good time for her to get mental help.
please, do not forget that your life matters, and you have the right to be happy. It surely does not look like there is much for you to do, but wait, pray and perhaps beg the judge to give her a manditory mental evaluation and help.
and get some help for yourself, as I would imagine your anxiety level is through the roof. Find peace for yourself. We do not know what tomorrow will bring, whether we will be here or not, so grab happiness while you can. Her turn will come, I pray.
I believe that all you can do is perhaps beg the judge to insist she get mental help, while incarcerated. I know that drugs can make people do things like this, but she does not seem to show remorse... maybe there is an underlying mental issue that needs addressed. She probably won't be doing drugs, in prison, one would hope....and that would be a good time for her to get mental help.
please, do not forget that your life matters, and you have the right to be happy. It surely does not look like there is much for you to do, but wait, pray and perhaps beg the judge to give her a manditory mental evaluation and help.
and get some help for yourself, as I would imagine your anxiety level is through the roof. Find peace for yourself. We do not know what tomorrow will bring, whether we will be here or not, so grab happiness while you can. Her turn will come, I pray.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 1,426
Dear Newimage,
First, you are a good mother, don't let judgemental people make you fell otherwise.
IMO you did what you could. But you can't fix your daughter, only she can do that,
when she is ready.
So now, work on fixing yourself. Get off the Codie bus so many of us momma ride
on. Start a life you can be happy in. You didn't cause your daughter to turn to drugs
and illegal activity, she did that all on her own.
We care about you and I'm glad you came back.
I will include you in my prayers to my HP, to grand you some peace.
Take care, big hugs to you!
TF
First, you are a good mother, don't let judgemental people make you fell otherwise.
IMO you did what you could. But you can't fix your daughter, only she can do that,
when she is ready.
So now, work on fixing yourself. Get off the Codie bus so many of us momma ride
on. Start a life you can be happy in. You didn't cause your daughter to turn to drugs
and illegal activity, she did that all on her own.
We care about you and I'm glad you came back.
I will include you in my prayers to my HP, to grand you some peace.
Take care, big hugs to you!
TF
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 923
i'm so sorry--the way people blame parenting is ludicrous and it is good you are avoiding those people--although they are ignorant--most do not want to know or stand in support--you will know those who do because they can stand with you, feel your sorrow and still encourage you to do what you need to do so that you don't go down as well. I find this to be very hard but am working on it--and your daughter, as 2f says made her own coices and has continued to make them--when she is ready--she will be ready but noone can tell us when or how that will be.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Maybe a stay of 2 years or longer will finally give her the wake up call she needs. I wouldn't worry about what happens when she comes out. The here and now is enough to deal with for now. As you say, she is just worrying about getting back out but if she gets a longer sentence and getting out will be a long time, maybe that will jolt her into a little reality...over time.
I'm so sorry you have to go through this. It just isn't fair and you don't deserve it. I feel that way often.
Hugs, Kari
I'm so sorry you have to go through this. It just isn't fair and you don't deserve it. I feel that way often.
Hugs, Kari
Curmudgeon, Electrical Engineer, Guitar God Wannabe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where the mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth
Posts: 3,403
I run into people all the time whose children went to school with her and were friends of hers, and their children are done with college and grad school, and some are now in Phd programs. They've traveled abroad and are married and/or having children of their own. I don't really care what they think about my daughter, but I cringe to think of running into them. They ask about her. They all feel that she has turned out the way she has because of parenting issues. They have no clue.
Geddy Lee of Rush once referred to prison as "The House of Bad Decisions". And it's worth reminding yourself that you didn't make any decisions for your daughter. She made them on her own. And this is telling:
There is no remorse or contrition that I can discern. Although she is not doing drugs in jail (as far as I know), she does not seem to comprehend or care about the consequences of her actions. Jail is just another place she's living.
She's your daughter, and you will always feel that tug between her and you. But I'm of the opinion now is a good time to detach as best you can. Doesn't mean you'll like it, and it doesn't mean you're suddenly going to feel better when you do. But I hope coming to terms with something you can't control frees you to live your life.
Sorry you're going through this, NewImage. But I'm glad you're here at SR.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Somewhere out there
Posts: 2,249
I'm so sorry you are going through so much pain and trouble. Having an addicted child is heartbreaking. Praying for you and your family that the judge will have her evaluated so you know what the underlying issues are. It may not change how she feels or decisions she makes but maybe she can get the help she needs. Hugs to you.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 177
NewImage...they are so lost, they truly are. I have a 23 YO AS who is currently facing revocation of his probation (if they ever go get him on his warrant) for a 3-7 year underlying sentence for an offense he committed shortly after he turned 18.
He has an almost 2 year old baby and an AGF and their world is spiraling out of control Believe it or not, I PRAY almost daily that they will pick him up and put him in jail. The only 2 times in the past 5 years I haven't had to worry about him so much have been either when he is in rehab, or when he's in jail.
No, I don' t believe jail is necessarily "good" for them, but sometimes it's necessary, and a last resort. Then I can stop worrying about him physically anyhow... There ARE drugs in jail, so be mindful of this if you are considering supplying commissary (or money for commissary). Items are traded for cash. But at least they aren't able to support full blown use like they can on the streets.
My heart breaks for you, as I know what it feels like to lose hope, or even feel like you are approaching that point. At least when we have hope, it seems to give us a motivation to go on........a reason to get through the day.......but somehow we have to find that motivation in OURSELVES instead of getting it through our children's actions. I'm not there yet, but I'm working on it....that's "the plan".
I know what you mean about running into other parents whose children have not gone down the dark path that ours have. I admittedly often avoid those situations where I can. I can make myself feel guilty enough without help from others (thank you very much). I know deep down I shouldn't, but sometimes that is my reality. I think sometimes that those who judge believe addiction to be contagious.....something their children might "catch". They think if they put themselves "above it" and can explain why OTHER children have issues (all of our bad parenting), then they have the answer to keeping it away from their own families. IF ONLY!!!!!
Glad you are here! I am finding support and know you will too! I will pray for your daughter as well! Hang in there! You aren't alone!!!!
He has an almost 2 year old baby and an AGF and their world is spiraling out of control Believe it or not, I PRAY almost daily that they will pick him up and put him in jail. The only 2 times in the past 5 years I haven't had to worry about him so much have been either when he is in rehab, or when he's in jail.
No, I don' t believe jail is necessarily "good" for them, but sometimes it's necessary, and a last resort. Then I can stop worrying about him physically anyhow... There ARE drugs in jail, so be mindful of this if you are considering supplying commissary (or money for commissary). Items are traded for cash. But at least they aren't able to support full blown use like they can on the streets.
My heart breaks for you, as I know what it feels like to lose hope, or even feel like you are approaching that point. At least when we have hope, it seems to give us a motivation to go on........a reason to get through the day.......but somehow we have to find that motivation in OURSELVES instead of getting it through our children's actions. I'm not there yet, but I'm working on it....that's "the plan".
I know what you mean about running into other parents whose children have not gone down the dark path that ours have. I admittedly often avoid those situations where I can. I can make myself feel guilty enough without help from others (thank you very much). I know deep down I shouldn't, but sometimes that is my reality. I think sometimes that those who judge believe addiction to be contagious.....something their children might "catch". They think if they put themselves "above it" and can explain why OTHER children have issues (all of our bad parenting), then they have the answer to keeping it away from their own families. IF ONLY!!!!!
Glad you are here! I am finding support and know you will too! I will pray for your daughter as well! Hang in there! You aren't alone!!!!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 1,426
Dear NI,
Thinking about you today, I hope you were able to do something nice for
yourself, something to bring you a little peace and distraction.
I have 2 beautiful daughters that are in recovery, both have underlying
mental illnesses. I feel and remember your pain when I first read your words.
I also remember those judgemental people talking about my girls....
they too have a few skeletons in their closets....
Let
Those
Comments
Go, away, as the wind blows.
Take care, we care about you. Welcome to our world, we understand.
Hugs, nice and tight yet gentle coming to you from all of us.
TF
Thinking about you today, I hope you were able to do something nice for
yourself, something to bring you a little peace and distraction.
I have 2 beautiful daughters that are in recovery, both have underlying
mental illnesses. I feel and remember your pain when I first read your words.
I also remember those judgemental people talking about my girls....
they too have a few skeletons in their closets....
Let
Those
Comments
Go, away, as the wind blows.
Take care, we care about you. Welcome to our world, we understand.
Hugs, nice and tight yet gentle coming to you from all of us.
TF
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: East Coast of Florida
Posts: 61
Thank you all for your input. It is always a big help. My daughter has now been sentenced. She was given 14 months in prison for each of her violation of probations, and 12 months for receiving stolen goods. Somehow her public defender managed to convince the judge to combine both of those cases, and she gets time served. Bottom line, she is going to prison but only for a few months, and will be out as early as June or as late as August.
My anxiety level is now through the ceiling. When she gets out, there will be no probation or community control. She will be completely done. When she gets out, she will have no money, no driver's license, no job, nowhere to live. She will have thousands of dollars of court fines to pay. On her birthday in May, her health insurance terminates so she will have no insurance to help pay for sober living or any kind of rehab. She wants to go back to school but as a convicted felon, she will not qualify for any financial aid. She would like to come home. She has been here three times, and each time was a huge failure. The things she has done are all the things you'd expect- slept all day, not helped out because she was 'depressed', pawned my jewelry, used drugs and had people here without my permission, used my computer without my permission, etc etc. She keeps telling me "Do you think I wanted to get high? Do you think I wanted to use? I'm a drug addict! I can't promise that I will never screw up again! You don't understand!" I honestly don't know what to do. I have been in contact by phone with her the whole time she's been in jail. When she gets out, do I try to help her out? There is no Salvation Army here, the NA and AA meetings are few and far between, public transportation is almost non-existent. I'm freaking out again.
My anxiety level is now through the ceiling. When she gets out, there will be no probation or community control. She will be completely done. When she gets out, she will have no money, no driver's license, no job, nowhere to live. She will have thousands of dollars of court fines to pay. On her birthday in May, her health insurance terminates so she will have no insurance to help pay for sober living or any kind of rehab. She wants to go back to school but as a convicted felon, she will not qualify for any financial aid. She would like to come home. She has been here three times, and each time was a huge failure. The things she has done are all the things you'd expect- slept all day, not helped out because she was 'depressed', pawned my jewelry, used drugs and had people here without my permission, used my computer without my permission, etc etc. She keeps telling me "Do you think I wanted to get high? Do you think I wanted to use? I'm a drug addict! I can't promise that I will never screw up again! You don't understand!" I honestly don't know what to do. I have been in contact by phone with her the whole time she's been in jail. When she gets out, do I try to help her out? There is no Salvation Army here, the NA and AA meetings are few and far between, public transportation is almost non-existent. I'm freaking out again.
Curmudgeon, Electrical Engineer, Guitar God Wannabe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where the mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth
Posts: 3,403
She keeps telling me "Do you think I wanted to get high? Do you think I wanted to use? I'm a drug addict! I can't promise that I will never screw up again! You don't understand!"
These are the words of a young woman who apparently refuses to take responsibility for her choices. Do I think she wanted to get high? Which time? The first time she flirted with drugs? Absolutely. And I would say it was that initial decision on her part that set off a series of events that led her to where she is now. Every time she came to a fork in the road, where she had an opportunity to do what was best for her as opposed to what was easiest for her or what she wanted, she chose what was easier for her or what she wanted. In short, to be blunt, she's full of crap.
The moral of this story is this: every action has intended and unintended consequences.
I honestly don't know what to do. I have been in contact by phone with her the whole time she's been in jail. When she gets out, do I try to help her out? There is no Salvation Army here, the NA and AA meetings are few and far between, public transportation is almost non-existent. I'm freaking out again.
I'm of the opinion that she needs to find her own way. If there's no Salvation Army, few NA or AA meetings and little public transportation where you are, how is this your problem?
It's not.
How things go for her once she's released from prison is up to her. If she's serious about achieving and maintaining recovery, she'll make decisions that will maximize her chances. You can't those decisions for her. Nor should you.
For now, she's safe. Try to relax and not future trip. Otherwise, you'll go nuts. And I think you've had enough of nuts for a while, don't you?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Detroit MI
Posts: 28
I think you've been offered a lot of good advice here, and I think it's great you now have a few months to process it until you actually have to make your decisions. At the end of the day, how little or how much you do is your choice, we can only offer you our experiences to lean on.
Detaching isn't easy. It won't eliminate the guilt. But it will keep you from drowning with her. I left my 16 year old brother in juvie over Christmas one year because I had a vacation I refused to cancel because he decided Teenage Drug Dealer was a great occupation. He screamed and cried as I left that visitation. He begged, "I've never missed a Christmas." My response was a stoic "Bet you never miss another one." I then cried the whole way home.
Unfortunately, it's 8 years later and he's in rehab, but you know what? Those are his choices and I'm glad I didn't put his choices before my life. Going or not going on vacation that year had absolutely NO impact on his recovery and that's easier said than done when looking in the rear view, but think about all of the opportunities, experiences, think about how much of *your life* you could miss out on waiting for her to catch up.
(hugs)
Detaching isn't easy. It won't eliminate the guilt. But it will keep you from drowning with her. I left my 16 year old brother in juvie over Christmas one year because I had a vacation I refused to cancel because he decided Teenage Drug Dealer was a great occupation. He screamed and cried as I left that visitation. He begged, "I've never missed a Christmas." My response was a stoic "Bet you never miss another one." I then cried the whole way home.
Unfortunately, it's 8 years later and he's in rehab, but you know what? Those are his choices and I'm glad I didn't put his choices before my life. Going or not going on vacation that year had absolutely NO impact on his recovery and that's easier said than done when looking in the rear view, but think about all of the opportunities, experiences, think about how much of *your life* you could miss out on waiting for her to catch up.
(hugs)
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
There is someone who comes to our CR that went to the Salvation Army program. He traveled quite a distance to get there. He put in the work to get there and work the program.
Salvation Army and Teen Challenge are both viable options for her. She may have to travel to get to one, but being out of her old environment would most likely be good. I believe Salvation Army is at least six months and Teen Challenge I believe is 14 months.
Just throwing it out there to look at resources that may not be near you. Tight Hugs, I cannot even imagine.
Salvation Army and Teen Challenge are both viable options for her. She may have to travel to get to one, but being out of her old environment would most likely be good. I believe Salvation Army is at least six months and Teen Challenge I believe is 14 months.
Just throwing it out there to look at resources that may not be near you. Tight Hugs, I cannot even imagine.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1
Newimage, a felony conviction does not make one ineligible for financial aid. The only felony conviction that will keep one from getting financial aid is a drug conviction where the crime was committed while receiving federal financial aid. Also I believe that there is only a waiting period after the conviction, maybe 3 years. Don't give up on school, when she gets herself together it's still a possibility.
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