Am I crazy?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Montclair, NJ
Posts: 51
Am I crazy?
Ok, I know the answer to that question is "absolutely yes, you're bonkers," but that's not really what I'm asking.
I've been trying to figure out exactly what my girlfriend typically does all day (by "all day" I mean from roughly when she wakes up to the time when most people eat dinner). As far as I can tell, I believe the following facts are all true:
*She holds no job.
*She does not go to the gym or otherwise work out on a regular basis. Her dad got her an elliptical about a month ago. She's used it twice -- for 10 minutes each. I'm not sure when she last exercised, but it wasn't during the 3+ years I've known her, that's for sure.
*She has no known hobby or interest. No musical instrument. Nada.
*She declines even to pursue yoga or meditation, even though she has a yoga instructor willing to come to her home.
*She does not do volunteer work.
*She has no children to care for.
*She goes to one therapy appointment, one hour long, during the day on Wednesday.
*She does go to some meetings -- the number varies, but I think she's up to 4 meetings a week (including the weekend). But they're all at night, so she's not going to meetings during the day.
*Because we're on a break, we're not seeing each other. Even when we were seeing each other it was never during the day because I work. I believe the primary people she's in communication with (other than me) are her dad, her mom and her ex-boyfriend (great guy, turned her on to oxy and heroin and got her addicted; currently under indictment for possession with intent to distribute). She never sees the ex-boyfriend because he's several states away. She does sometimes see her dad and, less frequently, her mom during the week. The dad does not work (on disability). She has a brother whom I think she has seen precisely once since she got out of rehab -- maybe twice. She has one other friend (the yoga instructor), and I don't believe she's seen that person since July. She has a sponsor, but only sees her at or after meetings, which are all at night.
*She has other "friends," (people she once knew but now mostly sees only in the virtual world like FB) but since they all work and/or have families to raise, she doesn't see them during the day either. Frankly I don't think she sees them period, but she definitely does not spend time with them during the day.
*She does have two small dogs to care for, but frankly, other than walking them occasionally, and taking them to the periodic vet appointment, they don't require a lot of care.
*She does sometimes run errands, but sometimes not even that. She confessed to me last week that she feels she does not have the energy to food shop.
So basically I think she spends most of the day sitting around and watching TV and surfing the internet. Certainly that's how she spends a good part of each day.
(I know what you're thinking -- that she spends the day doing drugs. For a variety of reasons I don't want to spend time getting into, I don't believe that's correct.)
So can we all agree that that's a bad idea, and she should get off her ass?
According to my GF, her therapist thinks this is all fine, because if she takes too much on she will be overwhelmed and will relapse.
I spoke to my therapist about this last night (she is an addict in recovery) and she felt it was a crock of poo.
So am I crazy? Is the clinician at the drug treatment facility crazy? Is my GF just lying either to her clinician or lying about what she and the clinician actually discuss?
Yes, I know a good part of this is my fault, but still . . . would it be somehow wrong to ever raise this issue whenever (if ever) we get back together?
I've been trying to figure out exactly what my girlfriend typically does all day (by "all day" I mean from roughly when she wakes up to the time when most people eat dinner). As far as I can tell, I believe the following facts are all true:
*She holds no job.
*She does not go to the gym or otherwise work out on a regular basis. Her dad got her an elliptical about a month ago. She's used it twice -- for 10 minutes each. I'm not sure when she last exercised, but it wasn't during the 3+ years I've known her, that's for sure.
*She has no known hobby or interest. No musical instrument. Nada.
*She declines even to pursue yoga or meditation, even though she has a yoga instructor willing to come to her home.
*She does not do volunteer work.
*She has no children to care for.
*She goes to one therapy appointment, one hour long, during the day on Wednesday.
*She does go to some meetings -- the number varies, but I think she's up to 4 meetings a week (including the weekend). But they're all at night, so she's not going to meetings during the day.
*Because we're on a break, we're not seeing each other. Even when we were seeing each other it was never during the day because I work. I believe the primary people she's in communication with (other than me) are her dad, her mom and her ex-boyfriend (great guy, turned her on to oxy and heroin and got her addicted; currently under indictment for possession with intent to distribute). She never sees the ex-boyfriend because he's several states away. She does sometimes see her dad and, less frequently, her mom during the week. The dad does not work (on disability). She has a brother whom I think she has seen precisely once since she got out of rehab -- maybe twice. She has one other friend (the yoga instructor), and I don't believe she's seen that person since July. She has a sponsor, but only sees her at or after meetings, which are all at night.
*She has other "friends," (people she once knew but now mostly sees only in the virtual world like FB) but since they all work and/or have families to raise, she doesn't see them during the day either. Frankly I don't think she sees them period, but she definitely does not spend time with them during the day.
*She does have two small dogs to care for, but frankly, other than walking them occasionally, and taking them to the periodic vet appointment, they don't require a lot of care.
*She does sometimes run errands, but sometimes not even that. She confessed to me last week that she feels she does not have the energy to food shop.
So basically I think she spends most of the day sitting around and watching TV and surfing the internet. Certainly that's how she spends a good part of each day.
(I know what you're thinking -- that she spends the day doing drugs. For a variety of reasons I don't want to spend time getting into, I don't believe that's correct.)
So can we all agree that that's a bad idea, and she should get off her ass?
According to my GF, her therapist thinks this is all fine, because if she takes too much on she will be overwhelmed and will relapse.
I spoke to my therapist about this last night (she is an addict in recovery) and she felt it was a crock of poo.
So am I crazy? Is the clinician at the drug treatment facility crazy? Is my GF just lying either to her clinician or lying about what she and the clinician actually discuss?
Yes, I know a good part of this is my fault, but still . . . would it be somehow wrong to ever raise this issue whenever (if ever) we get back together?
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
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Did you HEAR the therapist tell her that yourself? If not, I would say it's a lie. Sounds to me like she does a bunch of nothing. No ambition, no self care, nothing. So, what is the reason for your post? Why do you this this is your fault? You cannot MAKE another person do anything.
Why would you want to get back together??
I don't mean to sound harsh with you, but you really need to look at the big picture here. If there were your child telling you this about the person they care about, what advise would you give him/her?
Why would you want to get back together??
I don't mean to sound harsh with you, but you really need to look at the big picture here. If there were your child telling you this about the person they care about, what advise would you give him/her?
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,414
I don't think anything is your "fault" NJandy.
This may or may not apply in Amy's case, but I'd like to share something which may give some insight.
The mystery and allure of the "wounded uberwaif" as a trope has always been much more hype than reality. Trust me, I've known a few and flirted with it myself back in my drinking anorexia days.
I'm not sure if that's what we are dealing with here, but if it is, this may actually be the complete package. There is little depth behind the facade which requires external stimulation either with substances or media.
Using drugs and being a party girl was the thing that was most "interesting" about the uberwaif, and not using exposes the flat persona that evolved into the addict in the first place because so little was going on inside.
There are reasons for that. Usually the wounds that build an addict are very real and make people want to save them, but I have found (and lived for awhile) that wounds alone don't make someone an interesting companion once the wounds are exposed to light. After you've told your story, the mystery is gone and either the wounds begin to heal, or you keep pulling the scabs off to stay interesting, if that makes a kind of morbid sense. I bet it will to many people who read it.
What I'm getting at is that the drugs and the TV may be the sum and substance of the input this person has allowed into her body/ mind/ soul for a very long time. Not easy to undo that.
Garbage in Garbage out, to put it harshly.
So either she changes in a very deep way and begins to cultivate her soul and intellect, and to (finally) heal and be present in her body and in her social relationships, or she continues to drift and stagnate until she gets "too" bored and picks up again.
That's what it looks like from the inside for many.
So, you aren't crazy in the least to be disturbed by what you are seeing.
Healing is possible but it is very hard work.
Many addicts have never worked through much of anything but where to get their next fix. That's why, in my opinion, so many relapse.
This may or may not apply in Amy's case, but I'd like to share something which may give some insight.
The mystery and allure of the "wounded uberwaif" as a trope has always been much more hype than reality. Trust me, I've known a few and flirted with it myself back in my drinking anorexia days.
I'm not sure if that's what we are dealing with here, but if it is, this may actually be the complete package. There is little depth behind the facade which requires external stimulation either with substances or media.
Using drugs and being a party girl was the thing that was most "interesting" about the uberwaif, and not using exposes the flat persona that evolved into the addict in the first place because so little was going on inside.
There are reasons for that. Usually the wounds that build an addict are very real and make people want to save them, but I have found (and lived for awhile) that wounds alone don't make someone an interesting companion once the wounds are exposed to light. After you've told your story, the mystery is gone and either the wounds begin to heal, or you keep pulling the scabs off to stay interesting, if that makes a kind of morbid sense. I bet it will to many people who read it.
What I'm getting at is that the drugs and the TV may be the sum and substance of the input this person has allowed into her body/ mind/ soul for a very long time. Not easy to undo that.
Garbage in Garbage out, to put it harshly.
So either she changes in a very deep way and begins to cultivate her soul and intellect, and to (finally) heal and be present in her body and in her social relationships, or she continues to drift and stagnate until she gets "too" bored and picks up again.
That's what it looks like from the inside for many.
So, you aren't crazy in the least to be disturbed by what you are seeing.
Healing is possible but it is very hard work.
Many addicts have never worked through much of anything but where to get their next fix. That's why, in my opinion, so many relapse.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
and what does it matter WHAT she does with her day?
it's HER day right? her life?
she can spend as many hours as she chooses contemplating navel lint, watching paint dry, or sittin' on her ass watching the TV.
she's on her own timetable....it's possible her clinician did say something to the effect of no sudden changes, first things first, get the sober thing down. or maybe not. either way, it matters not.
how is this your fault again? unless you are paying for her rent? food? utilities?
actually, i think this separation thing is going well, it's allowing you to step back and give it all a second look.......and see those things that make ya go "huh?"
it's HER day right? her life?
she can spend as many hours as she chooses contemplating navel lint, watching paint dry, or sittin' on her ass watching the TV.
she's on her own timetable....it's possible her clinician did say something to the effect of no sudden changes, first things first, get the sober thing down. or maybe not. either way, it matters not.
how is this your fault again? unless you are paying for her rent? food? utilities?
actually, i think this separation thing is going well, it's allowing you to step back and give it all a second look.......and see those things that make ya go "huh?"
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Montclair, NJ
Posts: 51
Both posts make excellent points of course. In a funny way I'm more disturbed by her lack of ambition than her drug use, although the two are obviously interrelated. I've been disturbed by her empty days for a quite a while, but any time I would suggest maybe she needs to get off her ass people involved in the "recovery industry" would say things like "give time time," "don't put pressure on her," "let her manage her own recovery" and so on. I was so happy when my therapist called it a crock last night it practically made my whole week. She (my therapist) made what I thought was another good point, which is that being successful in recovery requires the addict to improve her self-esteem, and you improve your self-esteem by doing "esteemable" (not a word) things. It's true that it's great that she's remained clean thus far, but it seems patent to me that if she's going to stay clean she has to change other aspects of her life too. Otherwise . . . .
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Do I think you're crazy?
No.
But I don't believe you're at the point where you can make a fully objective and honest decision about what is best for you.
Frankly, I don't give a sh*t what she does all day. She's an adult. If she wants to continue to make poor decisions, that's her call.
My concern is when are you going to allow your brain to know what it knows.
No.
But I don't believe you're at the point where you can make a fully objective and honest decision about what is best for you.
Frankly, I don't give a sh*t what she does all day. She's an adult. If she wants to continue to make poor decisions, that's her call.
My concern is when are you going to allow your brain to know what it knows.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 845
Heads up, NJAndy: one of the things that kept me hooked enabling my AXBF was that it allowed me to feel superior. I got to rescue someone and in the process I got to think about how together I am by comparison. I started to get better when I started focusing on fixing what was mine to control and letting go of trying to fix his stuff.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
My ex is like that. Fills his days with nothing. No job, no goals/ambitions. Just drinking. He's an adult and that's his choice.
As an adult *I* have the choice not to be in that kind of relationship.
Fixating on her is not helping you, and you are very important. You matter. Your needs, your happiness. You.
Is there a way that you could dial it back when you find yourself fixating on her? You mentioned meditation. Mindfulness and meditation practice are very helpful to me when I find myself fixating on something that is outside my power to change.
If you can't accept her as she is right now- ambitionless, shallow, totally lacking outside interests- and not who she might become, then she is probably not the right woman for you.
Spend some time figuring out what YOU want in life. Not in the context of a relationship necessarily, because I think some single time would benefit you. I have been on a relationship hiatus for over a year with no end in sight. There are just too many other things I want to accomplish in my life right now.
Keep working your program in Alanon. Work your steps. Get a sponsor if you feel you need one. Time spent on your own recovery is time well spent because you deserve the best.
As an adult *I* have the choice not to be in that kind of relationship.
Fixating on her is not helping you, and you are very important. You matter. Your needs, your happiness. You.
Is there a way that you could dial it back when you find yourself fixating on her? You mentioned meditation. Mindfulness and meditation practice are very helpful to me when I find myself fixating on something that is outside my power to change.
If you can't accept her as she is right now- ambitionless, shallow, totally lacking outside interests- and not who she might become, then she is probably not the right woman for you.
Spend some time figuring out what YOU want in life. Not in the context of a relationship necessarily, because I think some single time would benefit you. I have been on a relationship hiatus for over a year with no end in sight. There are just too many other things I want to accomplish in my life right now.
Keep working your program in Alanon. Work your steps. Get a sponsor if you feel you need one. Time spent on your own recovery is time well spent because you deserve the best.
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Right here right now
Posts: 57
Sorry if this seems harsh, I don't mean to be... But.... Why do you stick around and consider her your girlfriend, especially in light of the fact that she is in touch with her ex addict boyfriend...?
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Montclair, NJ
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by jjj111 
Heads up, NJAndy: one of the things that kept me hooked enabling my AXBF was that it allowed me to feel superior. I got to rescue someone and in the process I got to think about how together I am by comparison. I started to get better when I started focusing on fixing what was mine to control and letting go of trying to fix his stuff.
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Montclair, NJ
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by ladyscribbler
My ex is like that. Fills his days with nothing. No job, no goals/ambitions. Just drinking. He's an adult and that's his choice.
As an adult *I* have the choice not to be in that kind of relationship.
Fixating on her is not helping you, and you are very important. You matter. Your needs, your happiness. You.
Is there a way that you could dial it back when you find yourself fixating on her? You mentioned meditation. Mindfulness and meditation practice are very helpful to me when I find myself fixating on something that is outside my power to change.
If you can't accept her as she is right now- ambitionless, shallow, totally lacking outside interests- and not who she might become, then she is probably not the right woman for you.
Spend some time figuring out what YOU want in life. Not in the context of a relationship necessarily, because I think some single time would benefit you. I have been on a relationship hiatus for over a year with no end in sight. There are just too many other things I want to accomplish in my life right now.
Keep working your program in Alanon. Work your steps. Get a sponsor if you feel you need one. Time spent on your own recovery is time well spent because you deserve the best.
As an adult *I* have the choice not to be in that kind of relationship.
Fixating on her is not helping you, and you are very important. You matter. Your needs, your happiness. You.
Is there a way that you could dial it back when you find yourself fixating on her? You mentioned meditation. Mindfulness and meditation practice are very helpful to me when I find myself fixating on something that is outside my power to change.
If you can't accept her as she is right now- ambitionless, shallow, totally lacking outside interests- and not who she might become, then she is probably not the right woman for you.
Spend some time figuring out what YOU want in life. Not in the context of a relationship necessarily, because I think some single time would benefit you. I have been on a relationship hiatus for over a year with no end in sight. There are just too many other things I want to accomplish in my life right now.
Keep working your program in Alanon. Work your steps. Get a sponsor if you feel you need one. Time spent on your own recovery is time well spent because you deserve the best.
I don't think, however, I can be happy alone. I did take a break from relationships for 3 years after my first marriage (long story), and while it was necessary and constructive, I was lonely. I think for many men (and certainly for me) relationships with women are critical to our well-being. It's just not possible (again, just speaking for me) to form the same deep emotional bonds with other men. So while I'm taking a break now, and if my relationship with Amy implodes I will take a further break to get my head together, I will head back out to the dating world. Except for that one 3 year break, I've not been out of a long term relationship for longer than a month since I was 17 years old (which, if I'm counting, is almost 35 years ago). That's not a habit I'm going to be able to break.
None of that's an argument for staying in my current relationship, of course, I'm just being honest that I will not be happy alone.
P.S. I agree she lacks ambition and outside interests, I don't agree she's shallow. She's actually terribly smart and engaging when she's "on." I've never had better talks with anyone I've ever known (well, other than my kids). Just right now she's in a very deep emotional hole and is not finding her way out.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
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I don't think, however, I can be happy alone.
Then you're not going to be happy with someone else. I was a serial dater/monogamist as well. The things you're looking to externally to fill the void within you are not going to work. That all has to come from within. Work on you and the happiness and fulfillment will follow.
Then you're not going to be happy with someone else. I was a serial dater/monogamist as well. The things you're looking to externally to fill the void within you are not going to work. That all has to come from within. Work on you and the happiness and fulfillment will follow.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
what DO you want from a relationship?
an active drug addict? NO. you paid to try and change that.
a recently sober person who, to your estimation, sits around all day and does NOTHING meaningful? no job, no motivation, no social circle, no hobbies, no...........nuthin? NOPE. you stated clearly that YOU think she needs to be DOING MORE.
she isn't meeting your requirements.....your expectations. to the point that you two are now on a "break" - same woman you funded her rehab, to the point of needing to dip into retirement and college funds. and now your investment is just..........sitting there.
our American bulldog just had her second surgery on her other knee. right leg was about 3 years ago, and the vet told us the probability of the other knee blowing out was well over 50%. so, we sucked it up again, financed the damn surgery as we do not have the disposable income to cough up $2500 in cash. and now we are on REHAB. a six month proposition....like I said, we've been thru this before.
guest room mattress moved to the living room, up against the couch, and that is where she and I have slept every night since nov 4. and will do so for probably another month. we are on visitor quarantine to keep her from getting too excited and straining her leg. we just recently took down the baby gate and she is allowed to move thru the upper floor of our house without being on a leash. the dogs (we have two) must be restricted from play. ideally it would be best if she would just LIE STILL. so the bone heals properly.
we can't SEE what is going on inside her leg. the sutures healed beautifully. in fact she never had to wear the cone of shame. structurally from the outside her leg looks good...considering they reconstructed her knee it is amazing how well she walks.
and that's the thing. she can WALK. she has use of that leg. it is healing. her prognosis looks good. the longer she stays inert, rests, sleeps....the more she heals unimpeded.
if after all this effort, her leg did not return to full use..or worse...we'd be heartbroken. but we wouldn't be mad at HER for not getting better - after ALL WE DID FOR HER. either the recovery takes........or it does not.
we can AID the healing......but we can't HEAL.
an active drug addict? NO. you paid to try and change that.
a recently sober person who, to your estimation, sits around all day and does NOTHING meaningful? no job, no motivation, no social circle, no hobbies, no...........nuthin? NOPE. you stated clearly that YOU think she needs to be DOING MORE.
she isn't meeting your requirements.....your expectations. to the point that you two are now on a "break" - same woman you funded her rehab, to the point of needing to dip into retirement and college funds. and now your investment is just..........sitting there.
our American bulldog just had her second surgery on her other knee. right leg was about 3 years ago, and the vet told us the probability of the other knee blowing out was well over 50%. so, we sucked it up again, financed the damn surgery as we do not have the disposable income to cough up $2500 in cash. and now we are on REHAB. a six month proposition....like I said, we've been thru this before.
guest room mattress moved to the living room, up against the couch, and that is where she and I have slept every night since nov 4. and will do so for probably another month. we are on visitor quarantine to keep her from getting too excited and straining her leg. we just recently took down the baby gate and she is allowed to move thru the upper floor of our house without being on a leash. the dogs (we have two) must be restricted from play. ideally it would be best if she would just LIE STILL. so the bone heals properly.
we can't SEE what is going on inside her leg. the sutures healed beautifully. in fact she never had to wear the cone of shame. structurally from the outside her leg looks good...considering they reconstructed her knee it is amazing how well she walks.
and that's the thing. she can WALK. she has use of that leg. it is healing. her prognosis looks good. the longer she stays inert, rests, sleeps....the more she heals unimpeded.
if after all this effort, her leg did not return to full use..or worse...we'd be heartbroken. but we wouldn't be mad at HER for not getting better - after ALL WE DID FOR HER. either the recovery takes........or it does not.
we can AID the healing......but we can't HEAL.
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
Andy - I have to agree with ladyscrabbler. If you're not happy with yourself, you won't be happy with anyone else. This said from someone who spent decades thinking I was totally in love with someone. In retrospect, I wanted to save them from their hard lives.
I'm glad you are taking a break from Amy. Seeing as how your gf and I share the same name, I can tell you several people had to take a break from me.
You are seeing the true picture of how she lives her life. Whether you like it or not, it IS her life.
For me, I had to take a huge step back and realize that was not a life I was interested in sharing.
I pray for the best for you, I understand why she is so much on your mind, but in the long run, it's all about you. What do YOU want from life?
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
I'm glad you are taking a break from Amy. Seeing as how your gf and I share the same name, I can tell you several people had to take a break from me.
You are seeing the true picture of how she lives her life. Whether you like it or not, it IS her life.
For me, I had to take a huge step back and realize that was not a life I was interested in sharing.
I pray for the best for you, I understand why she is so much on your mind, but in the long run, it's all about you. What do YOU want from life?
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: OH
Posts: 21
Forgive me - I am totally new to SR, and totally new to your situation, which looks like it has been talked about often on here. Of course, you sound a lot like me and remind me of the very high emotional and financial investments I've made in my addicted ex-bf. I, too, wondered how he could be so unmotivated, eternally unemployed, and so chronically miserable. I worried about it so much that I stopped worrying about myself and my own health and now I've been VERY seriously burned. You either go through decades of life sitting in stagnation the way you are, or you wind up getting burned. I'm not sure which is worse. Getting burned is probably better because it teaches you that you need to get out and get out now, but it also depends on how badly you get burned.
I've tried so hard to detach my emotions from my own situation. I've tried to look at my feelings in a logical and rational way. When you look back on the course of your relationship, can you quantify what percent of the time you spent feeling genuine happiness with this person? And I mean, REAL happiness, where you didn't feel shadows of doubts underneath, where a smile and laughter wasn't hiding the gut feeling of "oh, this is oh so wrong"? When I look back on my 3 years relationship with my opiate addicted boyfriend, and contemplate all that he has cost me, I am flabbergasted at HOW and WHY I stayed for as long as I have - I would say that it was only in the first three months of the relationship that I truly felt happy with him - I mean INTENSELY happy! But even then there were major red flags and bad gut feelings. So, I'd rate it at maybe 5% happiness over the course of 3 years of my life, years I'll never get back...
I don't know you, and it's none of my business, but maybe that's one way to think about it. I'm learning the hard lesson that may appear selfish to people like us but the bottom line is that YOU are the only one who matters to YOU! Or at least that's how it should be.
Much love to you.
I've tried so hard to detach my emotions from my own situation. I've tried to look at my feelings in a logical and rational way. When you look back on the course of your relationship, can you quantify what percent of the time you spent feeling genuine happiness with this person? And I mean, REAL happiness, where you didn't feel shadows of doubts underneath, where a smile and laughter wasn't hiding the gut feeling of "oh, this is oh so wrong"? When I look back on my 3 years relationship with my opiate addicted boyfriend, and contemplate all that he has cost me, I am flabbergasted at HOW and WHY I stayed for as long as I have - I would say that it was only in the first three months of the relationship that I truly felt happy with him - I mean INTENSELY happy! But even then there were major red flags and bad gut feelings. So, I'd rate it at maybe 5% happiness over the course of 3 years of my life, years I'll never get back...
I don't know you, and it's none of my business, but maybe that's one way to think about it. I'm learning the hard lesson that may appear selfish to people like us but the bottom line is that YOU are the only one who matters to YOU! Or at least that's how it should be.
Much love to you.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,256
Hi NJandy,
I think I can help you here. It seemed very clear to me after reading your post that you really like this other woman, and that you are now desperate to demean her to make yourself feel better since you currently do not have her.
Give her props for being sober, that it the best thing for her right now. I agree with her therapist and disagree with yours in that she does need to focus on her sobriety right now, and that motivation and ambition in life come second. She is going to meetings, GREAT!!!
If all she does each day is run an errand, throw a ball to her dogs, scroll Facebook, and watch a movie, so what. That is how she is choosing to live her life, and only YOUR JUDGMENT is saying that this is not all right. As long as she is surviving, paying her bills and rent, not doing anything illegal, and not using, she is doing just fine.
The truth may hurt a bit, but I think your desire to go into all of this stuff about her motivation and not having a job, etc, is an attempt by you to PROVE that she is not okay without you, when in reality she is doing just fine without you (which is scaring you).
I am not saying that you being with her is not good or would not add to her life, but I think you are going about it the wrong way. Accept her more for who and what she is, and you may find that things turn out how you want them to.
Hugs!!!
I think I can help you here. It seemed very clear to me after reading your post that you really like this other woman, and that you are now desperate to demean her to make yourself feel better since you currently do not have her.
Give her props for being sober, that it the best thing for her right now. I agree with her therapist and disagree with yours in that she does need to focus on her sobriety right now, and that motivation and ambition in life come second. She is going to meetings, GREAT!!!
If all she does each day is run an errand, throw a ball to her dogs, scroll Facebook, and watch a movie, so what. That is how she is choosing to live her life, and only YOUR JUDGMENT is saying that this is not all right. As long as she is surviving, paying her bills and rent, not doing anything illegal, and not using, she is doing just fine.
The truth may hurt a bit, but I think your desire to go into all of this stuff about her motivation and not having a job, etc, is an attempt by you to PROVE that she is not okay without you, when in reality she is doing just fine without you (which is scaring you).
I am not saying that you being with her is not good or would not add to her life, but I think you are going about it the wrong way. Accept her more for who and what she is, and you may find that things turn out how you want them to.
Hugs!!!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Montclair, NJ
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by Justbreathe1980
Hi NJandy,
I think I can help you here. It seemed very clear to me after reading your post that you really like this other woman, and that you are now desperate to demean her to make yourself feel better since you currently do not have her.
Give her props for being sober, that it the best thing for her right now. I agree with her therapist and disagree with yours in that she does need to focus on her sobriety right now, and that motivation and ambition in life come second. She is going to meetings, GREAT!!!
If all she does each day is run an errand, throw a ball to her dogs, scroll Facebook, and watch a movie, so what. That is how she is choosing to live her life, and only YOUR JUDGMENT is saying that this is not all right. As long as she is surviving, paying her bills and rent, not doing anything illegal, and not using, she is doing just fine.
The truth may hurt a bit, but I think your desire to go into all of this stuff about her motivation and not having a job, etc, is an attempt by you to PROVE that she is not okay without you, when in reality she is doing just fine without you (which is scaring you).
I am not saying that you being with her is not good or would not add to her life, but I think you are going about it the wrong way. Accept her more for who and what she is, and you may find that things turn out how you want them to.
Hugs!!!
I think I can help you here. It seemed very clear to me after reading your post that you really like this other woman, and that you are now desperate to demean her to make yourself feel better since you currently do not have her.
Give her props for being sober, that it the best thing for her right now. I agree with her therapist and disagree with yours in that she does need to focus on her sobriety right now, and that motivation and ambition in life come second. She is going to meetings, GREAT!!!
If all she does each day is run an errand, throw a ball to her dogs, scroll Facebook, and watch a movie, so what. That is how she is choosing to live her life, and only YOUR JUDGMENT is saying that this is not all right. As long as she is surviving, paying her bills and rent, not doing anything illegal, and not using, she is doing just fine.
The truth may hurt a bit, but I think your desire to go into all of this stuff about her motivation and not having a job, etc, is an attempt by you to PROVE that she is not okay without you, when in reality she is doing just fine without you (which is scaring you).
I am not saying that you being with her is not good or would not add to her life, but I think you are going about it the wrong way. Accept her more for who and what she is, and you may find that things turn out how you want them to.
Hugs!!!
It's not just my judgment that says what's going on is not ok. The folks that have full knowledge of the facts pretty much uniformly believe that she's been given a lot of tools to progress in recovery, but that she is not using them to full capacity because I've made it too easy for her to coast. I believe you and her clinician have a basic obstacle in common -- you're not acquainted with the unvarnished truth about how she is living. I think if I ever were permitted to meet her clinician in person, she would have a different view.
I do give her props for being clean. I agree that it's the most important thing. I just disagree with you that at 70 days out it's the only thing she can handle. And I also disagree that she will stay clean if she never fills those vast empty hours she faces each day.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Montclair, NJ
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by VirgoRising
Forgive me - I am totally new to SR, and totally new to your situation, which looks like it has been talked about often on here. Of course, you sound a lot like me and remind me of the very high emotional and financial investments I've made in my addicted ex-bf. I, too, wondered how he could be so unmotivated, eternally unemployed, and so chronically miserable. I worried about it so much that I stopped worrying about myself and my own health and now I've been VERY seriously burned. You either go through decades of life sitting in stagnation the way you are, or you wind up getting burned. I'm not sure which is worse. Getting burned is probably better because it teaches you that you need to get out and get out now, but it also depends on how badly you get burned.
I've tried so hard to detach my emotions from my own situation. I've tried to look at my feelings in a logical and rational way. When you look back on the course of your relationship, can you quantify what percent of the time you spent feeling genuine happiness with this person? And I mean, REAL happiness, where you didn't feel shadows of doubts underneath, where a smile and laughter wasn't hiding the gut feeling of "oh, this is oh so wrong"? When I look back on my 3 years relationship with my opiate addicted boyfriend, and contemplate all that he has cost me, I am flabbergasted at HOW and WHY I stayed for as long as I have - I would say that it was only in the first three months of the relationship that I truly felt happy with him - I mean INTENSELY happy! But even then there were major red flags and bad gut feelings. So, I'd rate it at maybe 5% happiness over the course of 3 years of my life, years I'll never get back...
I don't know you, and it's none of my business, but maybe that's one way to think about it. I'm learning the hard lesson that may appear selfish to people like us but the bottom line is that YOU are the only one who matters to YOU! Or at least that's how it should be.
Much love to you.
I've tried so hard to detach my emotions from my own situation. I've tried to look at my feelings in a logical and rational way. When you look back on the course of your relationship, can you quantify what percent of the time you spent feeling genuine happiness with this person? And I mean, REAL happiness, where you didn't feel shadows of doubts underneath, where a smile and laughter wasn't hiding the gut feeling of "oh, this is oh so wrong"? When I look back on my 3 years relationship with my opiate addicted boyfriend, and contemplate all that he has cost me, I am flabbergasted at HOW and WHY I stayed for as long as I have - I would say that it was only in the first three months of the relationship that I truly felt happy with him - I mean INTENSELY happy! But even then there were major red flags and bad gut feelings. So, I'd rate it at maybe 5% happiness over the course of 3 years of my life, years I'll never get back...
I don't know you, and it's none of my business, but maybe that's one way to think about it. I'm learning the hard lesson that may appear selfish to people like us but the bottom line is that YOU are the only one who matters to YOU! Or at least that's how it should be.
Much love to you.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: OH
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by NJandy
I'm sure you know the problem -- when you're in love that 5% can keep you clinging to hope for quite a while. Trying to detach here, trying to detach . . .
I totally relate to what you said about not being in a relationship. You get so used to it; it feels good and natural and right - so much so that the prospect of being alone is a lot worse.
One thing I'm really taking to heart right now is the realization that I need to go out and do things for myself independently of this person (or anyone else really). It's so hard. It's like learning how to swim or ride a bike for the first time. I'm afraid to death to do it but I know I have to. Maybe you're not ready to detach yet, but instead of worrying about what this lady is doing all day, it would benefit you to go out and do more activities just for yourself - I KNOW it's hard but it gets your mind off of things and you never know who you might meet! It sounds to me like you are an incredibly kind, worthy and dedicated person who is much deserving of someone who can give back to you as much as you can give to them.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 205
I know you know this but you have no control over your gf. She's going to live her life how she wants to, whether that means actively using, being "dry" and not really working a program (or doing much of anything), or fully committing herself to recovery and improving her life. You're not responsible for her and you're not to blame for where she is today. Her life is a mess because she made it that way and she is the only one who can fix it. You said, "we all agree she should get off of her ass." I don't know, but from what you tell us, it sounds like she is perfectly content with lying around all day doing god knows what and accepting your money. So even if she SHOULD get off her ass, she's not going to unless she wants to. So it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.
You have to decide what is acceptable to you. You said you're more bothered by her lack of ambition than her drug use. So would being with her the way she is now make you happy? I'm sure you've learned about expectations in Al-Anon. You can't set expectations for your gf (as foreign a concept as that is) because they are YOUR expectations for her, not what she expects from herself. And as far as what she claims her counselor told her, it doesn't even matter. That's between her and her counselor. It could be true, it could be a lie but it isn't about you and it's not your problem. You've got your own problems to work through and that's what this time should be about.
You have to decide what is acceptable to you. You said you're more bothered by her lack of ambition than her drug use. So would being with her the way she is now make you happy? I'm sure you've learned about expectations in Al-Anon. You can't set expectations for your gf (as foreign a concept as that is) because they are YOUR expectations for her, not what she expects from herself. And as far as what she claims her counselor told her, it doesn't even matter. That's between her and her counselor. It could be true, it could be a lie but it isn't about you and it's not your problem. You've got your own problems to work through and that's what this time should be about.
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