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Old 02-05-2013, 09:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
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manipulation

new for me, discovered this fact today. and i just wonder does addicts are aware that they using manipulation or they dont even know that they doing it?
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:48 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Addicts will do anything to protect their addiction. Manipulation is the main communication/behavior tool they have which is why us codependents fall prey so easily to them. We will do ANYTHING to get them back to "normal" and they know that and take full advantage of it.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stucna View Post
new for me, discovered this fact today. and i just wonder does addicts are aware that they using manipulation or they dont even know that they doing it?
Of course they know they're manipulative. And I would add manipulative without conscience.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:08 AM   #4 (permalink)
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What's manipulation exactly? I was with an addicted bf and i remember he was trying to change me. Do u mean this by manipulation? Or do you mean that they lie a lot?
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:29 AM   #5 (permalink)
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A's do what works for them to continue to use their DOC. I am not sure that I knew while in my ongoing condition of drinking and drugging if I knew it was manipulation, I just knew what worked to keep others from interfering with me getting my substances so that is what I did.

Now upon finding recovery and my head finally starting to clear I started to become aware of my manipulative ways, since I was still doing those behaviors in my early recovery. Not until I finally got into Alanon also, did I start to really see the ramifications of not only what I had done, but what my sober but now gambling husband was doing.

From what I have also gathered from the many A's I have worked with and known over these many years, they too did not think of their ways and words as being manipulation while they were out there using and drinking. It was only when they were into and on their way in recovery that they became aware fully of what manipulations and manipulative behaviors they had used.

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Old 02-05-2013, 11:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
What's manipulation exactly?
Playing a loved one, or one's family with words to keep the person(s) enabling the active A so said A can continue to get and use their drug of choice (DOC).

Being they words of blame (causing guilt) or words of wheedling and begging, or being super nice, or threatening to leave and it will be all your fault, or threatening suicide and it will be all your fault, etc

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Old 02-05-2013, 01:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I think all they "know" is that they need to get high.... an addict does what an addict does. In my experience, if manipulation doesn't work, then begins threatening and theft. Do they know they are doing those things? They are just looking to get high.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:06 PM   #8 (permalink)
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It's all about control, whether it's a subtle remark or an overt demand or being kind or being nasty... It's about controlling the environment, the conversation, the relationship, to suit their particular needs at the time. The sweet soulmate love and flowers talk woo you back to loving and trusting. Picking fights so you'll go away, telling you one thing then convincing you he said something completely different, deftly rewriting your memories to suit a story he wants to tell... I don't know how "aware" they all are, but they certainly get good at it.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:14 PM   #9 (permalink)
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It's important to remember their behavior - manipulation, threats, violence - is not about you or your experience of their behavior. Their primary motivation is feeding their addiction. Whatever it takes.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I try to look at the addicts in my life how I would look at anyone else. Addicts don't deserve a million chances, or a get free out of jail card, or a fifth chance when they cheat, or to get out of bills.

I have seen so many times addicts get away with doing things that no one would ever accept just because the person is an addict. Yes our addicts are sick, but that doesn't give them an excuse to treat others like crap.

I am a recovered A and a loved one of addicts and I can tell you right now, the more times addicts get away with doing something (cheat, stealing, etc.) the more they know they can use their addiction as an excuse to just not behave like a part of society. I knew what I was saying and doing when I was an addict, I just didn't care.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamboo38 View Post
Picking fights so you'll go away, telling you one thing then convincing you he said something completely different, deftly rewriting your memories to suit a story he wants to tell...
definitelly i have experience thoese onces
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:28 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I was in love with a cocaine addict

I was in love with a cocaine addict...i still am (maybe) but we are not together anymore. I understand that what he did was not right. Sometimes I miss him cos he was my 1st love but then I think of what he did to me and I see he was completely out of mind. Not that he was crazy or out of control, but very mean...My friends won't believe me. They don't believe that he does cocaine every day very constantly (he LOOKS good indeed). Cocaine is now something that ppl do as if they were drinking coffee and only those who have known the drug closely understand this world and what it brings. I am blamed for being the fragile girl. That things happened cos I could not manage him. This is what anyone from the outside would see, a young, fragile girl who cpuld not help solve his man's problems. He made me cry a lot. I don't know if this is a bad thing. Should you hide your tears just to look stronger in front of your man? Or better should you not want to cry? You should be strong! I dont' know. The thing is I was strong enough to see the world. I travel alone since I was 19. I've been everywhere and spent a long time away from my parents. I'm a curious person so that came naturally. I wanted to understand different cultures. My ex bf fell in love with me cos of this. He was fascinated by my strength to be able to go and find a job wherever. So he believed I was someone who could save him. WRONG! It turned out I could not manage anything about him. It turned out to be a messy relationship where I even lost my identity.And it only took few months to loose it all... I would like to understand why. Is it me? Was I too fragile? How can a fragile girl travel the world by her self? I don't understand myself anymore. I don't know me anymore. This site helped me a little. It's good to know that these stories with addicts are all the same, pretty much. There is always the partner who gets abused and at the end he/she understands that their sanity is worth more than the addict. I understand I m better off without him. But sometimes I think...what if I was stronger? What if...I could manage him...or his addiction? Some ppl can maybe.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:59 AM   #13 (permalink)
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new for me, discovered this fact today. and i just wonder does addicts are aware that they using manipulation or they dont even know that they doing it?


Sounds a tad like you might be trying to rationalize his behavior.
Addiction excuses nothing.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:41 AM   #14 (permalink)
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they know exactly what they are doing. they know the damage, the risks....and all the bad crap that this lifestyle could bring. they keep WANTING to do it until the crap hits the fan...and then maybe they will decide to live a different life. and even then, that might not be enough to stop. but when the crap does hit the fan....and they see how badly THEIR lives have become...they may want to get help...and decide to stop.

but, even if they do...they are still accountable for all the bad things they did. period. the drugs may have obviously played a role in the poor choices...but the manipulation, cheating, lies....all of it does not get excused. i think an addict trying to hide behind "the drugs made me do it" is not really taking responsibility for the horrible behavior. as a codie...it is sooooooooooo tempting to want to blame it all on the drugs.

the healing begins when you accept that he did that....he did that...he did that becasue he wanted to do it....and knew exactly what he was doing. he was a jerk for it...but now own it...take responsibiltiy and get yoru crap together so that you dont make the same mistakes again...AND get clean. you know?
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
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You don't have to buy the manipulation...
And as was said above, addiction doesn't excuse anything.

But there was this posted as a definition of manipulation
Quote:
Quote:
What's manipulation exactly?
Playing a loved one, or one's family with words to keep the person(s) enabling the active A so said A can continue to get and use their drug of choice (DOC).

Being they words of blame (causing guilt) or words of wheedling and begging, or being super nice, or threatening to leave and it will be all your fault, or threatening suicide and it will be all your fault, etc
And here is where it gets sticky...cause focusing on their behavior is like the best excuse in the world to not look at our own. So flipping the question around, have you been manipulative, because many here have, we have blamed it all on, while we were there, taking and all in, begged and did the silent treatment and then were super nice and play the game right along with the addicts in our lives...

Focus on you and what you need and want in this life. You only get one go around, try not to miss anything!
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
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some know damn straight that they are manipulative to the point of being pathological liars and they know it willfully. And, they continue it all knowingly.

While others are manipulative because they learned crappy life coping behaviors based out of complete ignorance and devoid of compassion and empathy for the human race let alone themselves. Many wander aimlessly not understanding their own motivations and in strange ways justifying their behaviors.

Yes, they all manipulate in some way and in many different ways.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:19 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I asked an addict working toward recovery that question once. He just flat out said yes. Then he told me a story about visiting his sistery and knowing she had Rx in her bathroom, and knowing she wouldn't let him in there to get them. So he let her dog outside, knowing she would go chase the dog, giving him a chance to get what he wanted.

He looked kind of stunned by his own lizard brain behavior and I got the sense that he felt he should feel bad about it, but that he didn't actually feel bad about it.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:48 PM   #18 (permalink)
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What's manipulation exactly? I was with an addicted bf and i remember he was trying to change me. Do u mean this by manipulation? Or do you mean that they lie a lot?

Lotsa lyin, anything to get money for their addiciton, it's an illness. I am an addict. try Narc anon for families of addicts
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:12 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Maylie - You hit the nail on the head. My husband is the addict in my life. I know of three times that he has cheated and I'm sure there were more than that. They will definitely do and say anything to get what they want. If they weren't an addict they would be very good sales people!!!
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