Did I Enable?
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Savannah
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Did I Enable?
I went to visit my brother in jail, which I said I was NOT going to do. I went because I miss him, plain & simple, & I fear I may never get the opportunity again. Also, I put $25 on his books for him so he could get a few things like deodorant. I did tell him not to call & ask for more money b/c that is all I was willing to give and he promised not to. He gave me a phone number & asked me to call this girl. He said she would help me understand what he is going though. He said she was not currently using & that he hadn't spoken to her in awhile b/c he was still using. I agreed to call her but now I am regretting telling him I would. Am I falling write back into enabling?? Should I call this girl, I mean, do you think it will help? I have an incredibly difficult time determining what I should and shouldn't do. When I asked my brother about rehab, he said he was ready but then later in the conversation, he said "but I will need clothes & shoes to go" & I found myself saying "I will get those things for you."
Where do I draw the line. Have I begun my old habits of enabling or did I respond correctly?
Where do I draw the line. Have I begun my old habits of enabling or did I respond correctly?
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
It sounds like you might be.
When I quit enabling my brother I quit cold turkey. When I thought about it I would feel guilty so I just put it out of my mind.
It was difficult. I knew other people in his program had $ for incidentals and a lot more family support. But then I realized whenever I would visit that he is an ace at getting whatever he wants. And when I would give him $ the first thing he would buy is cigarettes. That made me mad!!! (He has since quit smoking. Yay, bro!)
I think my stopping helped him as well as myself. And he found ways to get what he wanted without me. We have real boundary issues over money and I always think if I have it, I should help him. Basically, if you think you are doing too much then you probably are right.
It's ok to say, "I thought about that and have changed my mind." About the clothes. He can go to a consignment store or a shelter and get things very cheap. Not having great clothes will not hurt him. Maybe help with decent shoes, especially if it is a program that include trudging.
I would definitely hesitate to call anyone that he recommends while he is not in recovery. My Dad was duped numerous times by "friends" like that, even while my brother was in the hospital. You can talk to people here and at meetings if you need to understand his frame of mind better.
When I quit enabling my brother I quit cold turkey. When I thought about it I would feel guilty so I just put it out of my mind.
It was difficult. I knew other people in his program had $ for incidentals and a lot more family support. But then I realized whenever I would visit that he is an ace at getting whatever he wants. And when I would give him $ the first thing he would buy is cigarettes. That made me mad!!! (He has since quit smoking. Yay, bro!)
I think my stopping helped him as well as myself. And he found ways to get what he wanted without me. We have real boundary issues over money and I always think if I have it, I should help him. Basically, if you think you are doing too much then you probably are right.
It's ok to say, "I thought about that and have changed my mind." About the clothes. He can go to a consignment store or a shelter and get things very cheap. Not having great clothes will not hurt him. Maybe help with decent shoes, especially if it is a program that include trudging.
I would definitely hesitate to call anyone that he recommends while he is not in recovery. My Dad was duped numerous times by "friends" like that, even while my brother was in the hospital. You can talk to people here and at meetings if you need to understand his frame of mind better.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Hanna, thank you for your advice. I do believe I am falling back into enabling & I probably shouldn't have gone to visit him b/c it has made me feel awful again. You said I should tell him I have changed my mind but I am scared to do that. In the past, when he went to prison last, I promised him I would pay for rehab, & get him clothes, & let him come stay with my husband & I, but then when he was just about to be released, I feared he did not truly want help & I told him I had changed my mind & that he was going to have to figure things out on his own. I think what I did was wrong. I don't want to make that mistake again. Any advice?
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Colorado
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I am in a similar boat and boy is it hard to not help. I am learning the hard way that they really are not very grateful and most of the time they can make do on their own.
My brother recently got moved from jail to work release, he went in late summer and he lost a lot of his clothes he left at a past rental. He had a job lined up right out of work release but only had one pair of pants, etc. So I went through some of his stuff, did laundry, went through everything to make sure there was no paraphernalia, packed up what few tools he had left which wasn't much (everything has been pawned) went to walmart and bought toiletries and some cheap T's and a pair of pants, drove 3 hours round trip to give it to him...etc.
I thought he would be somewhat grateful for my help, he had been clean for 3 months and was talking better at least, but in the end I got nothing more then a mumbled thanks. He got a front of $100 from his employer the next day, told him I would take him to goodwill or something, instead, he bought a $50 pair of new carhart pants because they were more fashionable then what I bought him to work in (he is doing construction by the way). So the boy has $100 to his name and he spends half of it on pants his first day out of jail so he can 'look' better demo'ing out a house. That snapped me back to reality that his mind was still not right and I was seriously wasting my energy (and money).
So now he is back in jail this week, failed his probation, and called me yesterday to put money on his books for soap and shower shoes, and to call his employer and try to get his check he was owed (which will not be a simple thing). I have done nothing since he called me as I am deciding on my new boundaries. I am tired of the stress and worry I put into these little things when he really doesn't care who gives it to him, he is just testing whomever he can for whatever he can.
I had been trying to help him when he was moving in a positive direction (clean, working, etc), but I think I need to hold back my assistance until he has made more progress in his recovery on his own. Since he only made it out on work release for 3 weeks, he obviously wasn't ready to be clean yet.
My brother recently got moved from jail to work release, he went in late summer and he lost a lot of his clothes he left at a past rental. He had a job lined up right out of work release but only had one pair of pants, etc. So I went through some of his stuff, did laundry, went through everything to make sure there was no paraphernalia, packed up what few tools he had left which wasn't much (everything has been pawned) went to walmart and bought toiletries and some cheap T's and a pair of pants, drove 3 hours round trip to give it to him...etc.
I thought he would be somewhat grateful for my help, he had been clean for 3 months and was talking better at least, but in the end I got nothing more then a mumbled thanks. He got a front of $100 from his employer the next day, told him I would take him to goodwill or something, instead, he bought a $50 pair of new carhart pants because they were more fashionable then what I bought him to work in (he is doing construction by the way). So the boy has $100 to his name and he spends half of it on pants his first day out of jail so he can 'look' better demo'ing out a house. That snapped me back to reality that his mind was still not right and I was seriously wasting my energy (and money).
So now he is back in jail this week, failed his probation, and called me yesterday to put money on his books for soap and shower shoes, and to call his employer and try to get his check he was owed (which will not be a simple thing). I have done nothing since he called me as I am deciding on my new boundaries. I am tired of the stress and worry I put into these little things when he really doesn't care who gives it to him, he is just testing whomever he can for whatever he can.
I had been trying to help him when he was moving in a positive direction (clean, working, etc), but I think I need to hold back my assistance until he has made more progress in his recovery on his own. Since he only made it out on work release for 3 weeks, he obviously wasn't ready to be clean yet.
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Sweetie he does not need clothes and shoes for rehab at Salvation Army which is FREE and is a 6 to 9 month program and he will get clothes and shoes from the thrift store. It is a GREAT program for those that truly WANT recovery.
Whether you call the girl or not is up to you. You can read all she is going to tell you by going over to our alcohol threads and our substance abuse threads and seeing what they are going through. And there is a lot about what it is to be an A on the threads here also because there are those like me that are Recovering A's and also are dealing with codependent issues, we are sometimes called: "double winners."
He is still manipulating you, and yep you are falling back into it again.
It is your choice to 'change your mind' and it is definitely alright to do so. You do not owe your brother anything. He is counting on his 'old' ways working by throwing out tidbits that you almost automatically agree to, and then he knows you won't say no later because he knows how to make you feel guilty. In reality the only one who can make you feel guilty is you.
Have you tried any meetings yet of Alanon and/or Naranon and possibly gone for some one on one counseling for YOU?
Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing as we do care so very much.
Actually what you did before, changing your mind was NOT wrong, it was correct for you and your husband. There is no way he should be allowed to live with you and put your family through hell. IF he is serious, there are plenty of Sober Living Houses he can apply to and which in the long run are better for him, in learning to adapt to society sober and live sober.
Love and hugs,
Whether you call the girl or not is up to you. You can read all she is going to tell you by going over to our alcohol threads and our substance abuse threads and seeing what they are going through. And there is a lot about what it is to be an A on the threads here also because there are those like me that are Recovering A's and also are dealing with codependent issues, we are sometimes called: "double winners."
He is still manipulating you, and yep you are falling back into it again.
It is your choice to 'change your mind' and it is definitely alright to do so. You do not owe your brother anything. He is counting on his 'old' ways working by throwing out tidbits that you almost automatically agree to, and then he knows you won't say no later because he knows how to make you feel guilty. In reality the only one who can make you feel guilty is you.
Have you tried any meetings yet of Alanon and/or Naranon and possibly gone for some one on one counseling for YOU?
Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing as we do care so very much.
Actually what you did before, changing your mind was NOT wrong, it was correct for you and your husband. There is no way he should be allowed to live with you and put your family through hell. IF he is serious, there are plenty of Sober Living Houses he can apply to and which in the long run are better for him, in learning to adapt to society sober and live sober.
Love and hugs,
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
Laurie is so right. Our family spent ridiculous amount of money on rehabs and it didn't work. I struggle with a little bit of anger at those places that seem to take advantage of desperate families with a high price tag. My brother was literally in rehab with a rock star the first go round. We don't have that kind of money! And it didn't get him clean. He had someone bringing him drugs there. Neither did the second one, which charged an extra bunch of money because he had a couple of beers on the way there. Had to detox, you know. Seriously, from beer. I know it was all up to him, but it makes me mad that they give the impression that there are not other options out there and that money will solve all problems.
I didn't want my brother in rehab with a bunch of homeless addicts, but once he went to program that was like the ones I was trying to avoid, we both got a dose of reality. And he wasn't one bit different than those people, he was a homeless addict, too.
I don't think rescinding your offer was wrong at all. If he wants help, he will find it. Just like they know how to get everything they want when it comes to drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and cargo pants. When he wants to recovery, he will fight tooth and nail to get himself into a program and change his life.
I was pretty much forced to walk away. That night my brother slept in a shelter. He later told our Uncle it was the best night's sleep he had had in years. It was so difficult for me but it was start of a new life for him. He'd been on the waiting list for a free recovery center for many weeks. When he told them he was in a shelter, they magically had a bed for him. They get State assistance to cover housing and food, something that was very tough for our family to abide but it has been the best thing for him and for us. They cook for one another. Everyone has a job to do. They can walk away at any time, and can also return if they want to try again. They primarily self-govern so they learn to function in a community and relearn the rules of society.
I do things for my brother again, but hopefully mostly healthy things and I would stop in a heartbeat if I saw any sign that he is not clean. We have an ongoing dialogue and help each other navigate life these days. He still has a tendency to ask for a little more sometimes than is reasonable, but I've gotten better at saying No, and discussing the reasons.
Question for you - how do the things you do for your brother effect your life? Your marriage? Your finances?
I didn't want my brother in rehab with a bunch of homeless addicts, but once he went to program that was like the ones I was trying to avoid, we both got a dose of reality. And he wasn't one bit different than those people, he was a homeless addict, too.
I don't think rescinding your offer was wrong at all. If he wants help, he will find it. Just like they know how to get everything they want when it comes to drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and cargo pants. When he wants to recovery, he will fight tooth and nail to get himself into a program and change his life.
I was pretty much forced to walk away. That night my brother slept in a shelter. He later told our Uncle it was the best night's sleep he had had in years. It was so difficult for me but it was start of a new life for him. He'd been on the waiting list for a free recovery center for many weeks. When he told them he was in a shelter, they magically had a bed for him. They get State assistance to cover housing and food, something that was very tough for our family to abide but it has been the best thing for him and for us. They cook for one another. Everyone has a job to do. They can walk away at any time, and can also return if they want to try again. They primarily self-govern so they learn to function in a community and relearn the rules of society.
I do things for my brother again, but hopefully mostly healthy things and I would stop in a heartbeat if I saw any sign that he is not clean. We have an ongoing dialogue and help each other navigate life these days. He still has a tendency to ask for a little more sometimes than is reasonable, but I've gotten better at saying No, and discussing the reasons.
Question for you - how do the things you do for your brother effect your life? Your marriage? Your finances?
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Meadowsis - Soap and showershoes? See that's why I didn't keep in touch with my brother very well for the first few months. Those things seem so reaonsable. But how do you know they don't trade them for cigarettes, cash, or drugs? And what do the people do that don't have anyone to give them $?
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Originally Posted by Yogagurl 
I never considered that I might be enabling.... My husband asked me to bring him cigarettes to the shelter that he is staying at. Would that be considered enabling?
Wow, I am remembering the guilt I would feel whenever I said no to my brother about anything and am so glad I have (mostly) let that all go.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: North Carolina
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Saying no is so hard. Especially when the addict gets angry. It's almost like you just want to say yes to avoid a confrontation. The worst is when you live together and you can't escape to your own place to leave them alone to explode on their own. It's not that I ever felt sorry for saying no, I just didn't want to say no to avoid his insanity. How long is the program that your brother will be at and how long has he been in there? You said that you have tried the nicer facilities, is this one like a homeless shelter/rehab place? Is he angry that he is there or has he accepted that this is what he has made with his life?
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Originally Posted by Hanna
Meadowsis - Soap and showershoes? See that's why I didn't keep in touch with my brother very well for the first few months. Those things seem so reaonsable. But how do you know they don't trade them for cigarettes, cash, or drugs? And what do the people do that don't have anyone to give them $?
If he is lucky someone will share things with him, the other option is if someone is being moved out a lot of times they will give away a few things. So its a matter of your connections really. He went right back into the in jail treatment program so he knows folks.
No matter, I checked his account out of curiosity and he owes $170 in fees for his latest charges before any money will go on his commissary. That is not something I am paying so the decision was removed for me. I still need to work on defining my new boundaries though.
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I agree with Lauri.
He is an adult, he made his bad choices, allow him the diginity to learn how to become a responsible adult. He is not a spa, he is in the clinker. He is provided everything he needs...there is a big difference between needs and wants. Your enabling does not help him, one little bit.
If you are not doing so, get to some meetings, re or reread Codependent No More.
He is an adult, he made his bad choices, allow him the diginity to learn how to become a responsible adult. He is not a spa, he is in the clinker. He is provided everything he needs...there is a big difference between needs and wants. Your enabling does not help him, one little bit.
If you are not doing so, get to some meetings, re or reread Codependent No More.
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Originally Posted by Hanna
Meadowsis - Soap and showershoes? See that's why I didn't keep in touch with my brother very well for the first few months. Those things seem so reaonsable. But how do you know they don't trade them for cigarettes, cash, or drugs? And what do the people do that don't have anyone to give them $?
Think about this, when they are using, on the street, does anyone really think they care about showers, soap or smelling good? No they do not.
They only care about their next fix.
Sometimes, we codies need to put everything in proper perspective.
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Meadowsis,
Your comment about your brother owing money so you couldn't put money on his account, well, my brother owes over $5,000 but he gave me the account number of another inmate so that he would get the money. Does that make what I did even worse? Geezzz...guess I wasn't thinking that through.
Your comment about your brother owing money so you couldn't put money on his account, well, my brother owes over $5,000 but he gave me the account number of another inmate so that he would get the money. Does that make what I did even worse? Geezzz...guess I wasn't thinking that through.
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Originally Posted by kthopkt
Meadowsis,
Your comment about your brother owing money so you couldn't put money on his account, well, my brother owes over $5,000 but he gave me the account number of another inmate so that he would get the money. Does that make what I did even worse? Geezzz...guess I wasn't thinking that through.
Your comment about your brother owing money so you couldn't put money on his account, well, my brother owes over $5,000 but he gave me the account number of another inmate so that he would get the money. Does that make what I did even worse? Geezzz...guess I wasn't thinking that through.
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Originally Posted by kthopkt
Meadowsis,
Your comment about your brother owing money so you couldn't put money on his account, well, my brother owes over $5,000 but he gave me the account number of another inmate so that he would get the money. Does that make what I did even worse? Geezzz...guess I wasn't thinking that through.
Your comment about your brother owing money so you couldn't put money on his account, well, my brother owes over $5,000 but he gave me the account number of another inmate so that he would get the money. Does that make what I did even worse? Geezzz...guess I wasn't thinking that through.
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Originally Posted by Hanna
How is that even possible!?
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Originally Posted by dollydo
It happens everyday, the other guy gets a %, he then buys 'stuff" for the other inmate, it is all part of their game, they all learn how to work the system to their advantage...just as they work the enabler.
I always figured they were trading things around in jail and rehab. We sent phone cards to rehab but never got a phone call!
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Join Date: Feb 2012
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Originally Posted by kthopkt
Meadowsis,
Your comment about your brother owing money so you couldn't put money on his account, well, my brother owes over $5,000 but he gave me the account number of another inmate so that he would get the money. Does that make what I did even worse? Geezzz...guess I wasn't thinking that through.
Your comment about your brother owing money so you couldn't put money on his account, well, my brother owes over $5,000 but he gave me the account number of another inmate so that he would get the money. Does that make what I did even worse? Geezzz...guess I wasn't thinking that through.
I am sure if I talk to my bro and told him he had money outstanding on his account he would probably tell me to use someone else's account too. Four months ago, I would have done it right away, I was so freaked out because he was in jail. Now, I am just pissed at him and frankly glad he is back there.
UGH. Brain games.
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((kthopkt)) - This is what I can tell you from MY jail time. I was given shower shoes, soap, shampoo, and food. My dad did put money on my books, which I used to buy paper and stamps to mail them letters...the rest I spent on "junk food" which I gave to other inmates who didn't have anything. I was still Ms. Codie
My friend I met in a diversion center (being locked up but had a job and had to pay rent) got sent to prison. She was ALWAYS whining that I didn't send her money for boots (they had to march every day), medical costs, etc. which she really did incur.
However, when she told me how HARD it was "in there" I said "yeah, will it's hard out HERE, too, and I can't send you money". She got out, got a job and told me "holy shytt, you were right..it really IS hard out here!".
As far as his gf, I wouldn't call her. Why do you need to know more about what HE is going through...YOU are going through enough! If he questions it, you have every right to say "I changed my mind". It's not like HE has done everything he said he would, right? It's not your responsibility to contact her. If he wants to talk to her, they can write each other or she can pay for the collect calls if she wants to.
I've been in jail, I've been the loved one of someone in jail. I have to take care of ME, first and foremost, though it did take a while to realize.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
My friend I met in a diversion center (being locked up but had a job and had to pay rent) got sent to prison. She was ALWAYS whining that I didn't send her money for boots (they had to march every day), medical costs, etc. which she really did incur.
However, when she told me how HARD it was "in there" I said "yeah, will it's hard out HERE, too, and I can't send you money". She got out, got a job and told me "holy shytt, you were right..it really IS hard out here!".
As far as his gf, I wouldn't call her. Why do you need to know more about what HE is going through...YOU are going through enough! If he questions it, you have every right to say "I changed my mind". It's not like HE has done everything he said he would, right? It's not your responsibility to contact her. If he wants to talk to her, they can write each other or she can pay for the collect calls if she wants to.
I've been in jail, I've been the loved one of someone in jail. I have to take care of ME, first and foremost, though it did take a while to realize.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
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