Should I consider my AS rights to safeguard his propery while he's in jail?

[vaya]

AS just went to jail. Just before he got arrested he found a 4G iPhone. (Really...didn't steal it.) Was planning to sell it for drugs then. Now that he's arrested he wants to keep it.

Problem is younger son, who isn't an addict, wants to buy it from his brother, but his brother wants to keep it for when he gets out. Younger son's other phone on the brink so he wants it even more now.

Today AS told me, (when he called me on the phone) that he would let his brother use it until he gets out, for a deposit of $100. If younger brother doesn't take care of phone, or something happens, he loses his deposit. ( Not sure who gets to keep the phone or what happens with it then. Sounds like younger brother would keep it anyway if it was malfunctioning.?)

Younger brother is now feeling entitled to take the phone, regardless of AS wishes, because of the things AS stole from him 4 years ago. AS hasn't really stolen since he relapsed the last two times. Younger brother has also been generous to AS giving him t-shirts and sweatshirts he gets from his skateboard sponsors to wear and have throughout past year.

HERE'S WHAT'S UP:
1. I feel younger brother has no right to phone just because he feels he's entitled. No point in revenge. Want him to do the right thing.
2. AS should have some say since he found the phone and it's his. He doesn't have much else, or a working phone. He also has issues about younger brother needing to deal with things and not have everything handed to him. (His perception, since AS was thrown out of father's house and younger son wasn't.)

All of this is old stuff that we cannot change. i just want them both to do the right thing, respect what eachother wants, work it out somehow, without my being in the middle. I wound up getting in the middle because I put money on my phone so I can get calls from jail and I become the messenger.

They are both coming at it from old resentments about past issues. I wasn't there then, can't do anything about it...all we have is now.

My gut feeling is if younger brother really wants the phone he cannot just take it and disregard AS rights. He can come with me to visit AS and they can hash it out then, with me out of it.

I would do the same thing for younger son, if I had to safeguard his stuff. Younger son has no more right to disrespect AS requests just because AS is an addict and is jail. I think it's not being above board, which is what I want.

Younger son also forgets that I bailed him out of jail in 2010 and paid his restitution in exchange for charges dismissed when he broke someone's rear window in car.

AT A MORE REAL AND BOTTOM LINE ISSUE IS THIS:
How did I get myself in the middle of this?
I told younger son what AS wanted and he can't take no for an answer. ( Same issue AS has.)
I didn't create this. they were living with their father when all this got going, due to various hardships I experienced. I have legal custody, not father, but he didn't want to pay child support, so he basically kept them from me and wouldn't provide the support he owed so I could get another place for my sons and I.

I DON'T WANT TO BE IN THE MIDDLE. I WANT BOTH SONS TO WORK SOMETHING OUT OR WHATEVER IN A FACE TO FACE VISIT. ENOUGH WITH GOING BEHIND EACHOTHER'S BACKS AND RIPPING THE OTHER OFF! TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT!!!

More importantly, is I realize how much this cycle of addiction continues to suck us in, in various ways. I did tell AS that younger son was upset about the times he was ripped off and that AS should realize the impact that his addiction has on others. Doesn't make him the bad guy. just a reality check. puts people at risk for arrest, disease, being robbed, and more. Sorry it didn't work out for ASwhen he got kicked out of DAd's but he has to understand impact of his actions too.

What's really bothering me is that I've let this phone crap destroy my peace of mind all morning and day. And, it's all because younger son won't respect the boundaries that AS wants the phone!!!

A lot of this stuff is more than just dealing with addiction. It also has a lot to do with dealing with young adult children, especially when addict father screwed things up for the previous 4 years and now, as usual, I have to pick up the pieces.

I know some, or most, of this is my own choosing. In the name of trying to get my sons to do the right thing, I wind up getting stressed and my serenity is surrendered and caught in the middle.

I am grateful for having my sons back with me, but not at all grateful for the damage repair I have to do. NOw that AS is 24 and younger is 20, and I took them both in after all that drama with their dad during my AS worst period....I am somewhat at a loss as to what to do.

[Heartbroken0608]

I would recommend you try to find the rightful owner of the phone. If there are no contacts saved on it, try to determine the provider and return it to one of their stores. They'll be able to locate the owner. If that fails, turn it into the police dept in case someone is looking for it. It doesn't belong to either son! I lost my phone while on a hike in another state. I got a call from my wireless provider weeks later that someone had found it and turned it in. I had since bought a new one but was still very grateful someone was honest enough to go through the trouble of getting it returned to me.

[suki44883]

I agree with turning the phone over to the store so they can find the rightful owner. If the boys want a phone, let them buy one like everyone else has to.

[cc88]

The apple store can likely figure out who it belongs to unless your son already wiped it clean, which is the first thing thats usually done by any thief with half a brain.

My parents let my troubled teen cousin live with them for a while. He was always "finding" electronics. or "winning them in card games". Then one day my ipod touch grew feet and walked away. Unless you physically SAW him almost step on it and go "huh. would ya look at that" ...

When me and my siblings fought over stuff like that my parents would take whatever it was and throw it away, donate it, or sell it without blinking twice. We learned to get along. At this point it seems like your adult children are beyond lesson learning so if its going to be a point of argument you're better off tossing it out the window on the highway.

[vaya]

Unfortunately, the phone isn't turned on, nor has a password, so no way of knowing who the provider is. For all I know it may not even work, which is what makes this even crazier. I do appreciate your suggestions.

[Ann]

I agree, get rid of the darn thing. If it is stolen (and sorry to say that it probably is) and you keep it in your house, you can be charged.

Turn it in to the store or to the police as a "found" phone.

All I hear from your boys is "manipulation" and plotting. Take no offense, I heard it often enough from my own son to recognize the tone.

If I were you, I'd just get rid of it by taking it back to the store and let them figure it out.

Just my thoughts.

Hugs

[bluebelle]

I agree. The Apple store would be able to trace it to the owner. Or, turn it into the police. You don't just "find" an iPhone. If I found a phone, I would certainly give it to the police, the Apple store, or turn it in at the location where I found it. If I lost my phone, I would be very upset. It would upset me that people were dishonest and it would upset me because I work hard for my money.

[Heartbroken0608]

The IMEI number and the serial number are laser etched on to the SIM Tray (or on the back of the phone if there is no SIM card in that phone).

Apple iPhone support can tell you who the carrier is from the IMEI number. Then you can take the phone to the carrier. The carrier can contact the owner by checking the IMEI against their records.

[KelleyF]

I have an iPhone and there are a couple ways they can be tracked.
If you have the find my iPhone app, or if you use icloud.

You can get access to your phone to lock it down and even wipe off all your data.

I don't know if they could reactivate it either because apple can look up your serial number with just your name. But I don't know if they can flag them as stolen. Never lost mine but I also have insurance on it so it would be replaced for free.

I don't think YOU should make the decision; your kids are adults and it's a good lesson to learn about ethics.

[wicked]

To answer the question about safeguarding your son's rights.

What right does he have to that phone?
It is not his, not his brother's, so it is certainly not your problem.
I wonder if the person who lost the phone would like it back?
Good God.

[KelleyF]

Originally Posted by KelleyF

I have an iPhone and there are a couple ways they can be tracked.
If you have the find my iPhone app, or if you use icloud.

You can get access to your phone to lock it down and even wipe off all your data.

I don't know if they could reactivate it either because apple can look up your serial number with just your name. But I don't know if they can flag them as stolen. Never lost mine but I also have insurance on it so it would be replaced for free.

I don't think YOU should make the decision; your kids are adults and it's a good lesson to learn about ethics.

Sorry; I meant to say report as "lost" . People do lose their phones all the time so I wasn't doubting what you said about that.

[Justfor1]

Drug addicts in active addiction always seem to "find phones". They must be very lucky or something.

[vaya]

I really do appreciate your feedback. The phone could be stolen. It is not either of theirs to really lay claim too. I really don't know what my AS was doing or did when he found the phone. I also found someone else's ID on him once and he said he found that too.

My gut is to get rid of it or turn it in, especially because of what is represents.....a means to a fix before my AS got busted.

Thank you anvilhead....you're absolutely right. Also, thank you for answering the immediate question and not coming down on me for what I think is a bigger issue....about the lengths I'd go to to make my sons happy in the name of doing the right thing. Good grief. I have a lot to learn about letting them deal with their choices and taking responsibility for themselves. Maybe because of the years we were apart I haven't learned how to let go and still rush in as Mommy to make it all better right away. I feel so weak sometimes.

[tbeit]

If you brought that phone to Apple or the wireless provider they could tell you who "lost" that phone

[Ann]

Originally Posted by vaya

for what I think is a bigger issue....about the lengths I'd go to to make my sons happy in the name of doing the right thing.

In cases like ours, most times doing the right thing won't make them happy....but it's still the right thing.

However he came upon it, it's not his phone. The owner can, and should, be found. That is the right thing.

From one mama to another...don't throw out your own values to protect their deeds.

[Kindeyes]

Vaya
We don't see things clearly when we're in the middle of them.....at least I can speak for myself here.

You have a choice. You are not in the middle unless you place yourself there. It took me a long time to realize that I often tried to orchestrate the relationships between my son and EVERYBODY else. His sister, my husband (his stepfather), his bio-father, his friends, his girlfriends.......you name it......I was right in the middle trying to navigate the relationships, mediate the disagreements, and smooth everything over.

20/20 hindsight is so very powerful and clear. I now realize that I was hampering my son's abilities to deal with his own issues with others. I chose to put myself in the middle and meddle. And every time I did that......I sent a clear message to my son that he was not capable.

My AS also has shown up over the years with "things" that he said he found. My AS is a master at minimalizing, lies by omission, and spinning the truth in his favor. He is an addict and that is what addicts do. I accept that. I don't like it....but I accept it.

This stuff is so difficult for mothers. We see ourselves in our children. We see the good in them. We see the light in their spirit. And we want to hold on to that for all we are worth...... As the mother of an addict, I have so much compassion for other mothers (or fathers) on SR.

You and both of your dear sons will be in my prayers today.

gentle hugs
ke