Chino

People new to recovery are encouraged to find a sponsor and stick with the winners. People serious about recovery will do that. They'll find someone who has what they want. When the student is ready they'll find the teacher.

KelleyF

Thanks Chino.

So to clarify "winners" - are you saying it is recommended by the program that people in early recovery (less 2 years) when they are most fragile. Only socialize outside of meetings with those that have a proven record of success greater than 2 years? Or even 1 year with no relapses etc?

Because for the most part that's not whey I've read about here on SR and other places. Seems like birds of a feather means more like my new friends that I go out with at night or weekends are also new in their recovery.

Again this high relapse rate; or high failure rate amongst them doesn't seem to make them preferable for their primary source of social companionship

Chino

Kelley, I'm not in AA or NA so I have no idea about the specifics you're asking.

It seems like you're stuck on rates and I used to be as well, early on with my daughters disease. Eventually I let it go, because there's no way to gather accurate statistics.

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics

Heartbroken0608

I think the premise is the same for almost anything someone is trying to Change about themselves ... People tend to do better when they have a support group of like minded people to help hold them accountable. Weight watchers, quitting smoking, etc. if I'm trying to quit smoking I'm going to want the support of someone who has done it successfully. Although my family would cheer me on, if they're not former smokers they don't understand what it feels like and cant offer me suggestions as to what worked for them.

Also, I think with any illness/problem it really helps to know you are not alone, you are not so different, that others have been where you are and have overcome the issue. It gives hope. I know at my family meetings it is such a relief to be able to speak openly and honestly about something that "normal" people just don't get. Sure, my friends listen, support me, etc. but they simply cannot relate like the people at my meetings can. I have no doubt that I would have needed some serious psychiatric intervention if I hadn't found SR and my meetings when I did. I was at my limit and on the verge of a complete breakdown. It was in finding people who understood, who have been through what I'm going through and who understood me that I was able to begin healing. I think it's the same for addicts. They need the support from others who have walked in their shoes.

That doesn't mean someone HAS to get that support system in order to recover. There are no absolutes about anything in this world. I just think that in general, most people find it easier if they can bond with others. The important thing is a person finds what works for them and is taking positive steps to move forward in their life.

Impurrfect

(((Kelley))) - when I was in early recovery, my "friends" were people here on SR. Oh, I had acquaintances..the people I worked with. We had great times at work, I was the older one and everyone's auntie. I know, being older, I'm not as concerned about the social aspect of going out with friends, but still...I was seriously thinking I'd never have f2f friends again.

A couple years ago, I found out someone that posts here lives down the road. I've been to her place, she has horseback friends and I was THRILLED to have a real life f2f friend! In the past year, met another friend (and her husband) from here, reconnected with my old high school best friend (on FB) and recently had lunch with a friend that still works with my XABF#1 and her daughter...haven't seen them in over 10 years, and it was totally awesome.

Though I'm in online school, a couple of my classmates and I are planning on getting together when we're not bogged down in school. When I got hurt, falling down the stairs, they called to check on me. They're "normies" but they know my past because we're talking about getting jobs in healthcare and why I'm not a nurse and I felt safe talking to them.

My point is, I do still need RA's in my life and I always will. For a time, I felt RAs were the only ones who understood me. It's taken time, building up my self esteem (remember, I'm a codie, too), finding out I can work, make good grades in school, meet other people that I was comfortable with.

The recovery rates? No, I don't think they're that great, but I've said it before...I've known a LOT of addicts and RA's and none of us have EVER been included in any statistics. The people who come here are hurting, usually at their wits end. Many find recovery (codie and/or addiction) and drift away. Some of us, on the other hand, stay here and give back what was given to us in recovery.

In the beginning, I clung to anyone who had more time than I did. Now? The majority of my recovery friends are walking the walk, have been doing it for a while (some decades) but I will still always reach out to the newbies. Had someone not done that for me, I wouldn't be here.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

ctg492

I was very afraid of the guys in the recovery program my son is in, afraid of what???? Is what I ask myself now. These are not the using group my son hung with before, these are men working on recovery. I have found them to the most wonderful, happy to be alive, grateful to meet me, smile ready when I walk in weekly to the 1/2 wh, caring, supportive men I have ever met. I hope my son stays in support contact with all that want to support each other after he/they leave and start new lives.

england

That’s a good question – initially I was against making any friends with recovering addicts as I thought they may drag me down, but I was wrong. This was probably due to my paranoia and fear of trusting people who were recovering addicts.

I left my day care programme about 1 month ago and have been out for lunch with someone who I started to forge a bond with.

Maybe a friendship will develop, I’m not sure yet but it’s good to spend some time with someone who understands what I am going through, even though their DOC was different to mine.

They are also trying to re-build their life so its good to see how we can help each other.

Give someone a chance – you never know what will happen 

bluebelle

My RABF has been clean for over 2 years. The first time he got into recovery, he started reattaching with old sober friends. When he relapsed, he isolated himself. He was no longer talking to those sober friends. Actually, I don't know if he was talking to much of anybody other than the doctors and pharmacies that he was trying to get drugs from.

When he got back into recovery, he immediately got back to talking to the sober friends. He wanted to tell all of them that he had relapsed, and that he needed to be honest with them. He wanted to talk about sobriety. With RABF, he seems to be healthier when he is connecting with people. I am very thankful for the friends who he was able to turn to at that time.

Two years later, and not all of his sober friends are sober. One of his good friends now is showing signs of an alcohol problem. RABF is having a hard time talking to this friend because the friend is being dishonest--saying one thing while doing another. I think RABF could be a great support to his friend--if his friend wanted it. Now that his friend is drinking a lot, he wants to spend time with other drinkers and people who support that lifestyle.

If your RABF wants recovery, then he will stick around the people who will help him with it. If he wants to be around people who will use drugs, then he will find those people. I don't think you can patrol his actions and try to stop his relapse by controlling who he spends time with. Anyway, that's my experience as a codie. My attempts at controlling RABF were useless and ended up hurting us both.

japalmer

My son lives in a sober living house. He is with addicts every day and almost all day. They look out for each other. While they may also relapse together, I've seen that they respect each other's sobriety and most son's roommates would never try to convince him to use even if they did. They also are the first to call each other on issues. If you lie, start missing meetings, get too involved with a romance, etc. they call each other on it. It's hard to lie to someone else who knows all the games. I was initially worried about my son being around that group but I know how much he needs them now.

KelleyF

Hi all,

Wow thanks for so many responses to the question I posed on this thread.
Very insightful.

Still dont have full clarity on it; but ((Amy)) I think you came really close for me ( as you usually do - thank you) .

I never questioned the value of recovering addicts bonding in their rehab centers, group discussions, NA meetings, or sober houses.... as these are structured environments.

What I questioned was when a person returns back to a shall we say normal environment... having been told (maybe incorrectly) that recovering addicts need to spend their non-recovery time pretty much ONLY with other recovering addicts. i.e.... He doesnt need to spend free time with you; he needs to spend it with other recovering addicts.....

I can see recovering addicts being PART of their social group; the friends that they schedule non-recovery activities with... but to say that the 12 step program encourages recovering addicts to PRIMARILY socialize with recovering addicts seems terribly wrong to me.

If you had the option why would you want your whole social structure to rely on people that have a high probability of failing at recovery, or relapsing...?

But what you said makes sense Amy because most your friends were addicts in your stages of early recovery. But during this time - you hung close to recovering addicts that were MUCH further along in their recovery... and then as you began to heal and gain confidence in yourself again... you were better able to have additional relationships with the so called "normies". Not give up the RA friends- but just expand your social structure.
So that makes perfect sense.

The question I posed was really just for my own knowledge; because I have heard this concept discussed so often here on SR. It is not something that I deal with personally, or that has caused me any codie issues... because in my particular situation BF doesnt do meetings and the like, and doesnt socialize with any RA's.. But Im still interested in learning and understanding the process that is used by other people - because obviously it works for many and it is embraced by many. So I completely respect that.

Thank you everyone for sharing.

Taykos

I think yes and no and I will tell you why, you can disagree or agree. Keep in mind this is from someone who has never done heroin.

My brother is 19 and extremely immature. He started using heroin because he was trying to a help a recovering addict who continues to relapse. He would go to NA meetings with her and hang out with her friends. He has an issue where he is talked into anything very easily and is very immature for his age. So this landed him in the problem in the first place, hanging out with recovering addicts.

He has a great support system at home and allot of resources and friends he can contact. I agree he needs to talk to someone who has been what he has been through BUT he does not need to be around other kids who just got out of rehab who are also 19 and known for relapsing. I think he needs clean sponsors and counseling with addicts who have proven they can stay clean.

Unfortunately he has done horrible things to our family, he wasted 70k of college tuition, things he stole and rehab. He can't afford to do relapse, he will be on street and no one will help him because he can't drag the rest of our family down with him. He has zero room for error.


Now I understand allot of people here are older and have a different point of view and it makes sense but he is 19. It makes more sense for him to have a sponsor, reconnect with his family and stay around clean people.

I've spoken with allot of recovering addicts who are highly intelligent with great degrees, I asked them why they would try it? The response was the people they were hanging out with at the time. I have nothing against recovering addicts, I just think a month and a half isn't enough time to throw these 19 year olds in a car together, it's stupid in my opinion. I think cutting off all interaction with them is a bad idea but I also know if they relapse he is most likely not strong enough to say no. The fact of the matter is he only used for 3 months, he is only 19 years old and the kids he is around relapse all the time, there parents do not care. A sponsor and a friend might help but like I said he is very very immature for a 19 year old and allot of these kids relapse allot, the detox center recognized allot of them while I was talking with a tech. So my take is depends on the situation, resources the kid has, how long he has been using. In my brothers case I think linking up with these kids is a sure way to relapse right now until he finds people who can actually help him.

I don't understand why being with clean people who are succeeding at life not give him motivation, how having a sponsor wouldn't help him when he feels like using or lonely. I do think he should make friends with other recovering addicts but not these 19 year olds who relapse all the time. The parents are very wealthy and don't want to deal with there children, it's a tough situation.

KelleyF

Hi Taykos

Everything you said I pretty much totally agree with and the points you bring up were also my concerns.
One thing I was told that people in recovery are suggested to pick "winners" to befriend and hang out with. But at the same time I was told people in recovery (especially early) aren't stable enough often to make good choices
so that kinda blows the theory for me personally.

Thank you for sharing your brothers story. I hope that he takes this opportunity to find his recovery and healing. Sending out a prayer on his behalf. Also have to note... You sound like a good brother.

miamifella

Not to be contrary, but I do think there is some real danger in addicts associating with addicts--even in recovery. I did that early on and got into real trouble because of it.

Maybe it would be different if one were hanging around with people who were far from active addiction, but at that time the only people I knew in recovery were the people who were going to meetings. People struggling with the same urges do not make the best companions for each other. It can be disastrous.

Taykos

I would do anything to help him. Finding balance I think is really the most difficult part. The most dangerous thing is the bonds the addicts form. I think it is crucial to keep two people who were addicts together away from each other during the healing phase.

The bond they share is scarey, when one gets sick the other steals and gets the fix. It's almost like they are saving each other when the other is dying. The bond they develop while on the drug. This can be stronger than love.

We don't want unhealthy bonds forming while he is recovering, he needs to form his own identity and find self peace while getting help while finding comfort. He should have these bonds with his family and clean friends so instead of stealing and potentially going to jail for a relapsing addict he will think about his family and the people who truly want what is best for him.

crazybabie

. i guess my opinion with this was because before he went away he was in out-patient and when he would come out of the meeting he was able to buy pills from the same people that were just in the out-patient meeting.

I was going to ask if maybe you were scared he would/could get drugs from them. I saw this post first. I agree with everyone above but wanted to add that if he wants to use he will use and if he chooses to it is his choice.

Hopefully they are good people kinda got to me do you consider him a good person? I assumes so your with him many good people find their self in this position. Just because they became addicted does not mean they are/were not good people.

Vale

Watching the person who I cared about go through this----I guess she wasn't ready for
recovery...she just used it as a dating service.Where to find the best stuff,
best prices,new contacts,etc.

My read on it is just like rehab---a set of tools for the highly motivated.If they don't
really WANT to recover---then it is a candy store.

I'll echo CynicalOne here----recovery rates are truly dismal.But that does not mean the highly motivated cannot break free of this devil's yoke.