AH just got kicked out of rehab

[Reality]

Its his disease talking....he isnt convinced yet.

Let him do his thing. You do YOUR thing....and let the consequences do their job on him.

Boundaries....

[atalose]

Callie,

Please listen to what everyone here is saying to you. Reach deep down into your emotions for the strength to accept the truth. Pray for courage to stick to your boundaries and pray for the wisdom to know his truth not what you wish for it to be.

You had nothing to do with him using while in rehab for if you were that powerful he’d be clean wouldn’t he?

His threat of remaining high for the rest of his life if he doesn’t have you and his kids is a way to manipulate you and use your emotions against you for his own gain. As someone mentioned he is trying to hold you hostage and that is not love so don’t be fooled. It’s his self love for his drink and drug and for things to remain in his control so he can continue to use.

You state his mother is extremely codie so watch her behavior and don’t repeat it for yourself. We all have codie tendencies it’s to what degree we fall back on those unhealthy behaviors that does us and opens the door for the alcoholics/addicts to once again return with empty promises.

Anvilhead makes an excellent point if he couldn’t/wouldn’t stay clean in rehab then how in the hell is he going to do that on his own with no counseling/meetings or program to help him. If it were that easy wouldn’t he have done that by now? Don’t fool yourself into thinking he means it this time because he’s lost everything, the addict/alcoholic is still very much in charge of his addictions. And up until this point in time his best idea so far has been to drink and drug even in rehab.

Hold strong callie get control over your emotions as best you can because chaos causing emotions get us into repeated trouble and keep us unhappy and miserable.

[peaceteach]

Praying for you, Callie. I'm for changing the locks also, sweetie. Don't fall off YOUR recovery wagon with him. Face this without the emotion for a day or two if you can, come here for support, get to a meeting or counselor, but don't let him drag you back to those depths.

[hello-kitty]

I'm sorry to hear he bailed, but after all you have been telling us, it doesn't really surprise me. Sounds like he was looking for a way out from the time he got there.

I will not let him come home right now.

Good choice Callie.

Sometimes it is just better for us and for them if we just quit answering the phone when they call. Believe me. I know it's hard. But I'm healthier and better able to take care of my son, when I'm not trying to deal with my ex's addiction and all the lies and stories that go with it.

I know that when he is really serious about getting clean and sober, he'll do it whether or not I am supporting him. Actually, me supporting him and listening to his bullshit will probably only hold him back from true recovery. He has to want it on his own. NOTHING I do or don't do can affect his true will to get and stay clean.

So for me, no contact is the lesser of two evils. Yep. It's sad that the children have a drug addict for a father. But if he wants to get clean, he will. He has had every opportunity and so much help offered to him - and still he refuses to do whatever it takes to quit using.

It's truly in God's hands. The only control we have is damage control for our children.

[Chino]

Originally Posted by Callie

He will die from this. I just have to figure out how to let go.

It looks to me like you've taken a big step towards letting go by facing your worst fear with him: death. At my daughter's first detox, the therapist there told me to go ahead and imagine all my worst fears and how I would respond to them. 'How' determined the direction I should take for myself. Since my mind ran the gamut and I was still alive and kicking, I had tools for survival. It was up to me to find more or better ones and use them every day.

Try asking yourself what else you fear with him and then picture how you will survive it. We're victims or survivors of their disease, but the choice is entirely ours and it demands action.

Prayers for your serenity, Callie.

[Abundance]

Callie..... BIG *hugs* and tight tight hug at that coming to you.

Breathe... exhale.. release.... you have no control over this. You have been looking after you as you should be while he was doing the same.

HE wants to keep making the rules for what you need to be doing/allowing!

How free has it been where you haven't had to do it his way...ya know.... (the one that has worked so well up to this point). ?

I can't tell you just how you will be able to get to the point where you are totally at your bottom and recognize that this is NOT him.. this is the disease. There is you and him and the children, but this elephant in the room called addiction is WAY stronger..... no matter how strong YOU are, you can not beat this for him. You can only look after yourself. But you will come to the point where you will stop giving your power to that addiction. You will give power to your serenity and your children's serenity.

You WILL know what it is that you should be doing, when you are doing it..... when you are ready.

I'm thinking of you Callie......

xoxoxxoxoox

[BayAreaPhoenix]

(((Callie)))

It's all been said above. He's talking a lot, but no plan, nothing concrete, and what he has shown you with his actions directly cancel what he SAYS. He wants to want it to be true, that he can do this himself, etc. Of course he does, staying clean and recovery take work. They take time, and right now the work and time don't look fun, they just look hard.

He doesn't have anything to live for - right now. He's lost everything. But, who knows what is out there for him if you and everyone steps back and lets him find his own way?

We all have to make our own way and make our choices thru our troubled times - addiction or not. Personally I have had many troubled times during my life, where it felt like I lost everything (that I knew anyway) - my mother (haven't had her in my life for almost 25 years!), my first home, etc. But looking back is there anything I would change? No. Everyone around me stepped back and let me find my way and I am proud of how far I have come (including coming here!). Each year and each day has been better and happier because I kept choosing to have a happier and healthier life. I didn't have a good marriage, but from that marriage I have wonderful nephews, friends and neighbors, live in a town that is my home, etc. Your AH has to do the same. IMO, he does have everything to live for. Himself, his children, his family... The list goes on and on. If he chooses to use because he doesn't live in his house, with his wife and kids and doesn't have his job, then that is his choice. If those things are important to him, he will figure out a way to get them. Right now it sounds like he is figurinig out a way to use.

Hope you are breathing deeply and have stopped shaking. I send you lots of support and strength!

[rose]

Callie,
I know the emotional feeling you are having right now, as I could have been through just what you are going through right now. I think the major upset within me was the hope that I had that things were going to get better. It was such a blow when I got the call that my husband was being removed. Samething Callie, he was caught using. But it didn't happen just once, we got him into another one just shortly after and he was removed again. Then onto the 3rd one, he managed to finish and get his certificate, he had his car there and he wasn't even out of the parking lot, had some crack hidden under the ashtray and enough said....!

He said all the samethings to me that your husband is saying to you. I need to be with my family to get clean, I fell for that one to. Brought him back home, I just about went insane, needed 2 sets of eyes, one to sleep and one to keep and eye on him. He tried pulling the wool over my eyes, I knew he was lying, lying and the fights were on.

Oh and then there was the "well if I can't have my family there is no point in me stopping". It is all a game of manipulation! It doesn't matter if we do or don't do for them, if they are going to use they are going to use.

We just have to be strong and learn to keep the focus on us and the children. I know for me that any contact I had with him even over the phone he would just dragged me back down again.

Rose

[lightseeker]

Callie -

Great insights above me. I'm just here to add moral support. Speaking from experience - I would not want a man with no clean time moving into my house. My RAH has stayed clean (not recovered) for 3 years and it is not worth the pain, misery, and anguish that I have gone through. I wish that I had stood my ground and said "show me a year of clean living, get your act together, and then we'll talk". Instead, when he moved in with me I became his higher power and let me tell you - I don't want that job. I was his "savior" that was going to help him stay sober. Addicts don't have relationships - they take hostages. Blah blah blah - I won't be able to do without you, etc. My ego was high on thinking that could be true. He has stayed sober but I have walked through hell in his sobriety. His addiction was covering up lots and lots of problems that neither or us had any idea of.....learning to deal with life on life's terms without drugs has been quite the experience and brought to light lots of character defects (his and mine!). I hope that you can stay strong and not surrender the well-being of your children and yourself. Nothing changes if nothing changes.

So sorry to hear about this - I know that you are disappointed.

[Callie]

Thanks so much for being there today guys - I truely appreciate it from the bottom of my heart. I just met AH at his mom's. He was put into extended detox. He was taking 2 80 oxy's @ breakfast, 2 @ lunch and 2 @ dinner just to keep from getting sick. He would chew them all up. At the tale end (prior to rehab) he was taking 6-10 at a time throughout the day.

I guess there were 4 guys who didn't have family show up this weekend. They have classes on Sunday where family can attend. I'd spoken with AH's counselor prior to all of this and it was decided that I wouldn't be up on Sunday (this past Sunday). I was very busy with work and I didn't want to "run to him" at the first chance that I could. These 4 guys basically had free time. All did pills prior to rehab. AH was the newest. AH said that they started talking about the homework they had, this, that and the other. One genius got the idea that he would call whomever to come to family day. He did and brought percocet with him. AH said he did try to talk him out of it for about 4 hours. (verified by ah's counselor). Said the guy basically avoided ah after this. When he did get the pills he came to AH with 2. AH had 10 dollars left, gave him 8. AH said he's been sicker than a dog. Throwing up, weak, chills, sweating all of it. He said he knew the percocet would give him temporary relief and he thought just these 2 and that's it. (His counselor also verified this as well). Ends up that the guy that got them was basically "high" all day and it was very obvious to staff.

Rehab pulled him in and he rolled on AH and the 2 other guys. All 4 were kicked out. AH's counselor was very upset and tried to keep AH in. He said he's a newly recovering addict who is in the throws of withdrawal, that it would be nearly impossible to turn it down. But their policy is to give them the boot. AH's counselor said he can be re-enrolled, but wasn't sure how much time frame had to pass before they could do that. I found out that this is a world renowned rehab. People fly in from all over the country. I REALLY liked it and AH said it was very good as well.

Since talking with AH after he got home he has changed his tune. He set up an IOP assessment for tomorrow. He's also working with the original counselor to go back to the rehab. He said he would not do rehabs again, but would go back to where he came from. We talked for about 2 hours. He said he has learned that when he talks to me he needs to look me in the eyes. He was sobbing and said he just couldn't because of all that he's put me through. I asked him what his plans are for tonight as far as using. He's clean right now (percocet were Sunday late if you exclude the percocet, he's had 9 days clean). I know he could teeter either way - he said he wants to be clean but it's the hardest thing he's ever done. He told of the speakers that he'd heard up there, talking with the counselors, talking about what he's done to me and the path that has lead to where he is. He's very emotional right now, which is very unlike him. I hope for his sake that he can make it through the next few days and not use.

He asked to come home. I said no - he changed his tune a bit on that too because he said he understands I've had enough for now. My family is utterly shocked. Speechless. I am too. Thank you so much for talking me down today. I am completely astounded that this happened. I am so mad that another human being would provide pills to not only 1 person, but 4 that were in rehab to get better.

[sojourner]

Callie:

Your last comment about not believing that one person would supply 4 others while in rehab - i've got to comment on that!!

I've come to the place where i realize that a person with addiction does not stop because he/she runs out of opportunities to get high - he/she stops because he/she personally hits a wall and decides to do what is necessary not to live that way anymore. I'm not surprised that happened.

[anvilhead]

nor i....remember it's supply and demand......your AH knew the guy was getting pills, and when the opportunity presented itself, he bought some. that's ON HIM. not saying good or bad, right or wrong, those are simply the actions he CHOSE to take......observe how quickly you shifted your anger away from AH and towards the other addict....also observe that you have already minimized the event on sunday: He's clean right now (percocet were Sunday late if you exclude the percocet, he's had 9 days clean) - clean means NOT taking drugs of any kind, especially those that are not prescribed to you. he USED on sunday, on purpose, knowing full well the consequences....now he's back at mom's crying the blues....

understanding that you are standing strong on not allowing him home FOR NOW, what ARE your boundaries going forward?

[Chino]

AH said he's been sicker than a dog. Throwing up, weak, chills, sweating all of it.

Is this a detox and rehab facility? If it is both, they typically dispense drugs to minimize withdrawals but the patient has to let them know. It won't be pain free but these places have it down to such a fine science that it isn't overwhelming.

[Callie]

You are admitted to detox (if you need it) and then when you can you start the rehab. He'd been in bed for about the first 4 days. Has been to meetings the last part.

AH - you are spot on. I DID shift my opinion/stance if you will. It IS all on him and I KNOW that. He asked to come home, I said no. He asked to see the kids - I said no not right now they are too young and don't want to confuse them further when daddy is "suppose to be away." Also, after speaking with ah's counselor (a RA himself) and talking more with AH I know more of the details.

You are 100% right that it was HIS choice. Initially he kind of came at me with "well without you I have nothing - I'll just be high and then blah blah about him having no family there etc." But in the end it was HIS choice and he admitted that to me when I saw him. He also said that for today he chooses to not use, but he cannot guarantee me that tomorrow or the next day or whatever. He could be high as a kite tonight when I talk to him after taking the kids to soccer practice. Who knows - I'd probably be the LAST to know. For now I'm choosing to step back and see what his next step will be.

Dang you AH - I knew you'd call me out on being a total codie and I thank you for it. Don't let up, ok? I'm not thinking of any kind of reconciliation right now at all. I'll post more later about my boundaries - I've gotta get the kids to soccer. I'm finding that I'm just becoming numb to all of this and just rolling with the punches right now.

[Jody Hepler]

I know this is hard - been there, with the non-compliant addicts in my family. One tried to set his cabin on fire in treatment - but we wouldn't let him come home. And told him if they pressed charges, he'd have to deal with it - and don't call us. Amazing how fast he straightend up.

One of the best pieces of advice from my Alanon sponsor: When I got busy (finding a hobby, going to my meetings, hanging with recovery friends, going to open AA/NA meetings so I could learn how "they" act and what recovery for them looks like, cleaning my house and taking care of my family, getting a life other than obssessing/worrying about "him", in short - taking back my life), I got better.

I had to act my way into recovery thinking - I couldn't wait to change until I "felt better".

Love and hugs coming your way - lots of us have been there.

Love in recovery,
Jody Hepler


P.S. I was taught that it only takes one person in the family to change, for the whole family dynamics to change. For me, that was learning to say no - stop arguing and trying to talk sense into them - and sticking with it. He didn't get sober then (took 20 more years), but at least he was respectful to me when he called.

[Chino]

Originally Posted by Callie

You are admitted to detox (if you need it) and then when you can you start the rehab. He'd been in bed for about the first 4 days. Has been to meetings the last part.

They can still ask for help when they leave detox but he chose to get 'help' elsewhere. anvilhead cut to the chase on that issue

[rose]

Callie,

When I was with my husband, I use to blame anyone that gave or sold him the drugs...if only I could get rid of these people. Onetime I raise havic at a drug house, well they would not let him come there anymore, his wife was nuts and they didn't need me around so they would not let him come there anymore. He just found another source to get his drugs.

Guess what I am trying to say is, it was my husbands choice, nobody was putting it in his food without him knowing.

I hate the words it was "just and but".

Rose

[Reality]

Since percocet is a controlled substance that alters the mind, I dont see how it can be excluded.

A drug is a drug.

[Abundance]

Originally Posted by rose

Callie,
I know the emotional feeling you are having right now, as I could have been through just what you are going through right now. I think the major upset within me was the hope that I had that things were going to get better. It was such a blow when I got the call that my husband was being removed. Samething Callie, he was caught using. But it didn't happen just once, we got him into another one just shortly after and he was removed again. Then onto the 3rd one, he managed to finish and get his certificate, he had his car there and he wasn't even out of the parking lot, had some crack hidden under the ashtray and enough said....!

He said all the samethings to me that your husband is saying to you. I need to be with my family to get clean, I fell for that one to. Brought him back home, I just about went insane, needed 2 sets of eyes, one to sleep and one to keep and eye on him. He tried pulling the wool over my eyes, I knew he was lying, lying and the fights were on.

Oh and then there was the "well if I can't have my family there is no point in me stopping". It is all a game of manipulation! It doesn't matter if we do or don't do for them, if they are going to use they are going to use.

We just have to be strong and learn to keep the focus on us and the children. I know for me that any contact I had with him even over the phone he would just dragged me back down again.

Rose

Originally Posted by lightseeker

Callie -

Great insights above me. I'm just here to add moral support. Speaking from experience - I would not want a man with no clean time moving into my house. My RAH has stayed clean (not recovered) for 3 years and it is not worth the pain, misery, and anguish that I have gone through. I wish that I had stood my ground and said "show me a year of clean living, get your act together, and then we'll talk". Instead, when he moved in with me I became his higher power and let me tell you - I don't want that job. I was his "savior" that was going to help him stay sober. Addicts don't have relationships - they take hostages. Blah blah blah - I won't be able to do without you, etc. My ego was high on thinking that could be true. He has stayed sober but I have walked through hell in his sobriety. His addiction was covering up lots and lots of problems that neither or us had any idea of.....learning to deal with life on life's terms without drugs has been quite the experience and brought to light lots of character defects (his and mine!). I hope that you can stay strong and not surrender the well-being of your children and yourself. Nothing changes if nothing changes.

So sorry to hear about this - I know that you are disappointed.

Rose and Donna.... I NEEDED to read that. Thank you.

[lightseeker]

Abundance -

No, thank YOU. It's posts like yours that make what I've gone through worth it. Addiction is a ruthless beast that I now understand will have its way no matter what anyone says or does. It's always looking for a way to rear its head and not give up it's precious ground. It wants people dead.

Callie, honey, hope that you are hanging in there. Hopes that are dashed are particularly painful. I know that there are many things about your current and past life that you cherish and it's hard to think about things changing. It's times like you are in right now that "one day at a time" has a particularly important meaning. You don't have to make any decisions today other than the next right thing for you and your children. I've learned that situations can make me emotionally drunk and I'm not fit to make a proper decision at those times. The best thing that I can do is keep doing the next right thing....for each moment. Hang tight to the boards and other friends in recovery. I've found that the "general public" loves to chime in and attempt to influence. Now is a great time to apply the principles of recovery to everything that is coming your way. Good for you for still doing the things that need to be done like getting the kids to soccer.

Thinking of you -

[Abundance]

Callie........... Anvil is SO good at that isn't she?! I think I want to marry her... I hope she accepts my marriage proposal when I get my sex change

Okay...... chica..... you are right now sounding so much better! And that is great! You are not shaking... you are not freaking out.... it's like you are in the calm before and after the storm. Take this time and savor this energy.

Keep on going.... and coming here and listen to your inner child/spirit.

When my guy relapsed ... he went to IOP high...... and then he was discharged for using. Also, how lame that he got punished for telling the truth. But ..... rules are rules... anyway you look at it. This is called dealing with life on life's terms .....

It sounds like he does want to get help... it sounds as though he is remorseful. Shoot... if my guy was offered those in the rehab house on day 8...... for sure he would have used. Just like when he got in touch with his dealer last Tuesday.... MAN I was SO mad at that dealer. How dare HE sabotage my guy's recovery. What a real JERK! But really.... my guy made the choice to do it.... and the dealer couldn't have been happier about it. He got his buddy back! They were even making plans to move in together..... well he just might get to make that plan come to fruition now. IDK.... but it's out of my hands.... and he is going to do what he is going to do.

When I was going crazy.... my guy would talk with me and tell me that I was going through the normal stages of grief. That is one of the remarkable things about my guy ... even though it's his addiction that is driving me to insanity... he can step outside of it and help me deal with it and calm me down. He was a healer to me on so many levels.... but that is to think about / talk about at another time.

Anyway..... I find that focusing on how I am feeling and how I am reacting vs. acting in situations brings me to the answers I am looking for. For example.... just observing how I am doing in whatever situation. It's like the cause and effect. This happens and I *feel* this way..... sure I want to fix it.. change it... have craving to feel differently or aversion to how I'm feeling....... but instead of immediately reacting to it....... I observe it. Observe the emotion/sensation at the time for what it is... it will pass, but in the meantime... just observe it. I observe it by acknowledging it by talking it out or writing it out.

Today I was told.... if you are in doubt..... don't make a decision.

I can't tell you just how much I understand what you are going through.... just be good to yourself and know that you are an amazing person.

What his next step is going to be does not have any correlation to you or what you are going to do.... keeping that in mind and staying with your program and what you are going to do - regardless of what he is going to do. you get it? Stay in your hula hoop....

You are already doing really well btw. You are taking your kids to soccer practice.... you are continuing on with your duties as a mother. You are staying true to yourself. When I was in the throws of it all last week, I wanted to know what to do...... even though I already knew what I needed to do.... I just wasn't ready to do it.

I guess what I really want to say most of all to you....... is that I am proud of you. You are staying honest with yourself and all around you. You are giving power to your self - worth and not his addiction.

[anvilhead]

abs, how am i going to explain this to hank? LOL ya know what guys? all we can do is the best we got on any given day.......chances of us getting it right the FIRST time are, mmm, slim.......in order to get good at anything it takes three things:

1. Practice
2. Practice
3. Practice

[Abundance]

Oh yeah..... I was thinking that Hank might be kind of an obstacle

My guy asked me a few times after the relapse if I honestly really thought this wouldn't have happened. That he really would have gotten it the first time around??? I told him....... that I had hope. But that expectations typically are just future resentments. But I was hoping.... and that I thought he was strong enough to really do it. That he was going to at least get right back into recovery if he did relapse.

Also Callie.... when I showed my guy one of your posts asking what you should do..... in regards to the whole divorce thing while he is in rehab...... his advice was the following:

"I'm sorry to say this, but she should stick with him in re-hab and then right before or after he gets out..... divorce him. Just so that he at least gets some tools." And then..... he said...... "That is what I was expecting you to do to me." I told him that I hadn't even thought of that..... and I wouldn't and I didn't. It's no wonder that he didn't put up a fight to not use..... as well as..... a fight not to have left last night when I asked him to leave.

[Callie]

Geeze guys (abs and AH). I am completely torn. It's not that I want to stay with him or be married to him. It's just that I completely see his heart and who he can be. He's played me, no doubt. He's played my family whom I cherish - no doubt. BUT I see him today and I KNOW he's clean and trying. He asked what can I do to relieve the W/D's and I told him what I've learned here. He's abided by everything that I've said about doing/telling the kids because he "knows I've got their very best interests @ heart." He's said "I want this so very badly" but I cannot promise you tomorrow or next week or next month. He DID choose to take those pills. I KNOW he did, but again I've never been in the massive throes of withdrawal.

He's only 8 miles from here right now, but my kids think he's miles away "getting better". He's abided by everything I've layed down for him thus far as far as not disrupting their world. For that I'm grateful.

I guess I'm at a point where "I" can let go myself as painful as it will be. But whether we're together or not I don't want to bury him. I don't want to be standing OVER him putting him in the ground. I want to help him for himself. For the person that I and everyone else sees him for. I KNOW it's not a healthy R or M. But I just believe in him so much. I KNOW he can do this. Maybe not enough to meet my standards, but he can at least lead a right life for himself, his family, my family and most importantly MY family (kids).

I realize through all of this that I may be deemed "sick as him". I don't deny that. But ya know I don't come from addiction. I come from trust. I don't surround myself by people who willfully lie to me on a daily basis. From my world, I trust most everything that everyone tells me. If I catch them in a lie, what do I do? Most likely forgive them. It takes a few 2 x 4's to get me to never trust you again. Call it naieve, stupid, dumb or whatever, but that was the way that I was raised. I come from a GREAT family, with a GREAT childhood. All of this is foreign to me. I know many think I'm a complete codie and I'm not denying that. But damn#t I see him and KNOW him to be better than this.

If I leave he has NOTHING but his codie mother. She's EXTREMELY codie. The roles between mother and son are completely reversed because AH is in control of that. Without me his entire family (except his mom) turns their back on him. My entire family turns their back on him. Does he deserve all of this -- probably yes. But that means taking my kids, ah, his family down too. I'm not trying to toot my own horn but there is NOBODY in his family who will stand up and fight for him. NOBODY. His very own dad who he loves and cherishes hasn't called for 1.5 weeks. I tell you if it were )MY( son I'd be fighting tooth and nail. AH's dad has his "own life' and can't be bothered. Foreign to me I guess.

For tonight only he's clean. I hope he's had a trip instead of an entire fall. Thanks for reading. and I welcome ANY advice good or bad. Anvil - I didn't want to hear it, but I'm so glad for the 2 x 4's. I truely mean that girl. Again, nobody will hurt my feelings, I'll take all of the shout outs or advice that I can get.

[laurie6781]

I want to help him for himself.

Callie, YOU CAN'T HELP HIM. All that will happen is you will be sucked back into the drama, chaos and lies.

Without me his entire family (except his mom) turns their back on him.

This is not your problem. It is his problem, based on HIS ACTIONS.

Step back for a year at least and watch and see if HIS ACTIONS match his 'oh so sorry and you are right and I want this so bad' words.

Sorry to sound cynical, but you see I was the way your AH is for many many years before finding recovery so..........................................instea d of looking at 'his potential' and 'the person you know he can be' look at the person you have been living with, who has continued to lie to you, is this WHAT YOU WANT FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE????

Only you can answer that. He has to want recovery FOR HIMSELF (not for you, not for the family, but for himself) more than he wants to continue to use, and only he will know when he has reached his bottom.

Please take the focus off of him, and put it on you and the kids.

J M H O

Love and hugs,