Do I stay or do I leave?

[TTOSBT]

Hi 11d.

First I have to say that I am a recovering alcoholic. I have a 76 days sober and a "normie" husband and two beautiful children. There have been times that have been hard for me as I struggle with relearning how to live sober. I go through much more than my family probably realizes because I was a closet drinker and while my husband knew I drank too much sometimes, no one really saw the extent of my addiction. But I KNOW that they can't relate, that is okay and that is what my therapist, AA sponsor and sober friends in my meetings are for. But truly last night I told my husband that the longer I am sober the more I love and appreciate him. I meant it. I feel that everyday. At 9 months I would think your husband would know what he feels to some degree? Now, I am a woman but I have so much joy today that it comes out. I feel very strongly too that no matter what happens in my day today, it is still a good day because I did not drink.

Second I am a child of an alcoholic. A lot of secrets, hidden bottles, drinking behind closed doors etc. Hmm, wonder where I learned that from? Anyway, though I did not find out until I was older about the alcohol, I always knew something was wrong and I felt so scared and alone because no one would tell me what it was. And here I am...
So my point is that your kids know that something is wrong. The know MUCH more than you think. And by the way, THAT is why your daughter picked up a crumpled piece of paper from the trash and read it. I used to snoop all the time! She is trying to find some answers for the craziness around her. It is time for the talk and IMO, you need to be there as their rock.

I think you are doing wonderfully and have been VERY strong. I am so happy that you are taking care of you. Take care

[11d]

Went to work yesterday. RAH had a talk with my daughter.He told her that we are having problems and drinking was a problem. He told her he has quit drinking and he goes to meetings to not drink, be a better parent and spouse. He told her that he realizes that he has not been "around" in th elast 5 years and it is reason why we are having problems. He said that it had nothing to do with them, but he does know that the kids have lost respect for us and he is going to do something about that. He acknowledge the strain of his relatioship with our 14 yo son. He said that because he has not been there for him in the past. BUT that has changed. He NEVER talked about the drugs. I don't know if that was the right thing or not. He acknowledge the drinking. He felt he stayed on her level. I cannot control what he tells her and really feel that I need to stay out of their relationship. You are right that this is his crisis to feel and to step up to the plate with her. I know I cannot protect her from the pain. I can't do it any more, no matter how much I love her. He said she didn't have too many questions.

She seemed fine when I got home. BUT I did notice that she was folding clothes and straigtening up when I walked in. She was trying to make things perfect for when I walked in. That is not for her to do. She is a child. I do not want her to think she must become codependent to fix things! That is the last thing I want. I didn't have the right time to talk to her, but plan to today. I will use the opportunity to address using life's struggles as either good or bad. We need to use them to strengthen ourselves.

And when I walked in, my RAH came up to me to kiss me hello! I was taken back and did not respond to him. I do not know why. I have been wanting affection, but I did not know how to accept it. After all this time,... After him not being able to say if he loves me or that he has resentments toward me. When I was looking for answers. It was only that one time,...

I do feel better today. I feel a little burden has been lifted. I know there is a reason for everything. I am trying not to think about what he was doing/thinking by not addressing the addiction disease and drugs with her. As for me, I know that I get the codepent part and the addiction part,....I guess I really need to learn HOW to focus on my joys. I really do not know what they are.....HOW PATHETIC! Working has been good. I do feel the guilt of my kids. I feel by working part of me has abandoned them! I do feel the cycle of guilt, anger, pity,...I know I do feel like the frog in the water that has slowly heated up! My legs and mind are not strong to hop. I do feel stronger than a few months ago and a few weeks ago.

Thank you all for your support, opinions, words of wisdom, ...just being there. I will pray for strength and wisdom to know what my HP has for me. And I am grateful for my kids and complete strangers online who have supported me.

[IPT]

I am glad that you are feeling stronger. Best of luck.

[11d]

Yesterday, my 14 yo son wanted to go to a camp out for his cousin's b-day (at my RAH's family camp 1 hour away). Dad would not answer him as ususal. SO I talked to him and he said yes. Son went to work and came home at 5 and hurried up to get his stuff together. Friends showed up at my house and they ran down the road for something and was gone maybe 10 min. RAH says he wasn't bringing him b/c he left! COme on, he left for 10 min.! He told him no and son was very upset. I tried to talk to RAH and he got mad because he said earlier he had came in from cutting grass around his deer stands and I got mad!! We are trying to move out of our house so that they can sand our floors. We have to be out today! and we didn't start! RAH has been off since Wed.. He got mad at me saying tha tevery time he is enjoying something< I always snarl and say make a comment with the undertones that he should be here doing what I think is important! Not that I actually say that! I told him he could not read my mind. and perhaps he is reading things into what I say because he feels guilty about something?! I finally told him that actually I (we) are happy when he isn't around because we don't walk on eggshells. He said he likes me better when I am working and away! SO I told then maybe he needs to leave.

He said that son wanted us to work around his schedule! If he really wanted to go he would not have left! I told him that 14 yo goes to work EVERYDAY. He was outside working on his 4 wheeler while RAH was inside watching TV. He could have helped him. That it is the other way around. We have to go around his. It was 5:30pm on a Friday and of course RAH wanted to eat and go to bed! Because we do not have a life...no fun.

I took my son with the 4 wheeler to the camp! I don't know if that was codie...but he deserved to go. We had a long talk. He asked about when dad left and I told him he went to rehab. I tried to explain about addiction. I did not say anything about the drugs. He said he was so close to his dad and now that he is back....He can't stand to be by him. Always wants to work and now there is no fun. I know RAH has to find his fun again also. BUT 9 months...I told him I understood and I acknowledge that things were not well between RAH and I. I told him it had NOTHING to do with them. He understood. I felt better that he now knows about the rehab and addiction disease. Maybe God planned for me to come clean with him after coming clean with daughter. maybe this was my little step in getting out. I am so scared. I am afraid of losing my home and moving my kids again. I grew up in this house and have worked so hard in restoring it.The back of my home goes for a couple of miles and has an orchard which belong to my dad. My kids love the freedom and hunting and 4 wheelers. I live so close to my parents. I don't want to move. BUT I don't know if I can pay him out. We paid cash for the house and took a line of credit on it to do the repairs. Which is more than the appraisel price. I am so scared. I guess I need to see a lawyer and see if I can make him let me keep the house without paying him.

Sorry so long. He is at a meeting. I just don't know anymore. That was so damn selfish on his part. Am I wrong to think this? If he left for 10 minutes, should he have been punished?

[rozied]

11d, I don't know enough of your situation to even comment. I will keep you & your family in my prayers.
Lean on your HP & pray alot & I am sure you will find your way,
Diane

[codeinewife]

(((11d)))

The conversation with your son sounds like it went really well - healthy and appropriate! Even tho you didn't really want to go there with your kids, hoping it's a bit of a relief to have that door of communication open and the truth out.

Never ceases to amaze me how the A's refuse to do the "right" thing by leaving the family home and letting their kid's lives continue in an environment they love and can feel some continuity, security, etc. during such a difficult transition (if parents seperate)... but, they are A's - active or not in recovery mode - and the inability to put someone else's needs and feelings before their own is impossible. It is very hurtful, and not OK, but good for you for knowing this is a possibility and facing that reality.

My AH kept saying to me he couldn't leave our house because it was his "sactuary". Whatever... More about him feeling safe, protected, sheilded, etc., but certainly not about living, growing, accountability, responsibility, etc.

[cynical one]

Addiction so loves to be kept in the dark, where it can fester, grow, and become so much more destructive. When it is allowed to be spoken of, to be seen for what it is, it loses it's power over others.

The older children are old enough to know most everything, the little one only needs to know the big picture (daddy takes drugs [yes, use the word] that make him act weird but he’s trying to get better), not the details. Alateen would be a great place to start the older ones, where they can find out that they are not alone or different, and that they are in no way responsible for their dads addiction. They can also freely open up among their peers and share what they are seeing and how they are feeling.

Kids are not stupid, IMO they actually read people better than most adults do. They know when something is going on or wrong, but because of the way the adults in their lives behave, they follow the example that is being set. If mom walks on eggshells, they will too. If mom allows herself to be spoken down to, or snapped at for no reason, then they too will allow it. If they live in a home where affection is not handed out freely and openly, they too will become emotionally stunted. Hug often, smile often, and always say those three little words.

[11d]

If they follow the example set by the adults in their lives, would seperating from him be better? What if he can reattach and be an awesome dad and spouse? Why is he so detached? I feel like he wants to hide something from me/us. Like there is a secret that he doesn't want out.

Yesterday, we were moving stuff and furniture out of the bedroom because they are redoing my floors on Monday. and he is working today (Sunday) he just sat in the living room while my mom, my daughter, and I move things out!! He was reading his big book. He finally got up when I asked him to move the big furniture. He knew we needed his help. Why just sit there? It is like he has no clue as to what we are doing. He is in his own little world. Is it detachment or is it selfishness?

[cynical one]

Bad behavior is bad behavior, addiction is not an excuse, however it is frequently used as one…by both sides.

I surley don’t know you, your situation, or the atmosphere in the home, so only you can answer whether separation is best for all involved (yes, your husband too). All families have disagreements, words are said and regretted, and there are anger and tears, that’s just human nature. But if laughter, love, fun, and family time do not rule most days, then yeah, change needs to occur.

When there is a big elephant in the living room that everyone tip-toes around, avoids, resents, fears, doesn’t speak of, to, or about, so it doesn’t get upset. If the elephant just sits there and does not participate in this miracle called life and that includes chores, quality time, events, picnics, playgrounds, school activities, sleepovers, or whatever interests the family members have as individuals and as a group, than maybe it’s time to get back to the basics, and stop losing time. The children are only going to be young once, there is no going back at a later time and reliving what has been lost.

Maybe this will help you with your decision:

Speak to Us of Children
~The Prophet

And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, "Speak to us of Children."

And he said:

Your children are not your children.

They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.

They come through you but not from you,

And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts.

For they have their own thoughts.

You may house their bodies but not their souls,

For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.

For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.

Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;

For even as he loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.

[cynical one]

Should I Stay Or Should I Go?
By Annie Kaszina

It’s one of the ways you can spot a woman in an abusive relationship. They ask themselves the question, time and time again, obsessively.

Actually, it’s not the question that obsesses them so much as the answer. The hope is that if they ask themselves the question often enough, the answer will become the one they want. The desired answer is, of course,yes. Yes, they should stay because it will work out the way they’d like it to.

Of course, there are good reasons for wanting the relationship to metamorphose into the Happily-Ever-After kind. Ironically, abused women are driven by their very desperation to invest far more in their relationship than their emotionally fulfilled sisters do. They do so, not least, because of their spiralling isolation and self-doubt.

So a massive, draining conflict between emotion and reason ensues. Of course emotion wins the day for the longest time. ‘The heart has its reasons that reason knows nothing of’, Pascal observed back in the seventeenth century.

It’s a great quote. It’s even made it onto a T-shirt. (My daughter wore one such through the autumn.)

In fact, how many of us have ‘been there, done that and bought the T-shirt’, metaphorically speaking, at least? And how many of us have muted the voice of reason by our persistent denial of it, for sentimental ‘reasons’?

Nobody can tell another person whether they should stay or go – although they may be sorely tempted. (The exquisite relief of telling a loved one that their partner is a cold-blooded reptile best returned to his dank swamp, can be a tough one to resist.)

Equally, when the boot’s on the other foot, it’s not something you want to hear. The only perspective on the problem that counts is your own.

If you feel ready to explore the same problem from a new – broader – perspective, it may be time to start asking yourself different questions. These are some of the questions you can ask yourself:

· Over time has my relationship improved, deteriorated or stayed the same?

· If it has consistently deteriorated, what grounds do I have for hoping for radical improvement?

· Is my partner prepared to make a medium to long-term commitment to improving the relationship?

· How am I validated and honoured in this relationship?

· What would you choose if you really believed you did not have to settle for second best?

Your answers should be self-explanatory. If you are looking for someone who will keep you on track and hold a vision for you while you learn to let your reason provide you with strength and direction, you may be ready to be coached.

Annie Kaszina

Joyful Coaching

An NLP Practitioner and Women's Empowerment Coach, Annie specialises in helping women heal relationship pain and attract the relationships they want.

Reprint allowed under Terms of Use of Annie Kaszina - EzineArticles.com Expert Author

[11d]

cynical one- You have made a great point. And love, laughter, family fun does not rule most days. It just makes me so sad because we use to have all of that. It slowly went away with the drugs, I really thought rehab and recovery would bring it back. I know it can change people, but there has to be good in it for it to last. My older kids even talk about the old dad. They want him back. And so do I. They are so sad. There is alot of laughter gone. You have given me alot to think about and I will keep reading and praying.

Thank you for your words. All of everyone's words.

[malihas]

i am in a similar situation but without kids... have lots of my plate and i understand how it feels.
i am debating the same question... should i stay or leave?
my heart has been saying LEAVE for some time now... and i keep staying and the crap keeps increasing

the rest are right... make a decision for u and the kids

i have lots of stuff on my name and have no job right now... i still want to pick up and GO to another city and feel i should do it.
i am going to talk to my AH very soon and share some thoughts with him and see what happens

best of luck and keep writing here....
you deserve to give yourself and your kids a better, more certain, more loving life

[11d]

MNalihas....I hope you find your way. Having children involved is so hard. Find that inner peace and your joy. If that means leave, then so be it. You are strong and have lots of support here. Many have walked the same paths. I have decided to see a lawyer to see where my finances will fall. My RAH says he is going back to individual therapy. I am still waiting to see if he made that appointment. As for me, I am thinking of going to therapy also. 9 months since RAH's sobriety, but years of using when I did not know anything is eating away at me. Nothing changes till something changes. BUT I know I have to give it everything for my kids and a piece of me that is holding onto old memories. Sad but honest.

I will keep you in my prayers! Keep posting!

[Frog_2hop]

Someone told me at the very early stages of me making a change in my situation to "Pray he gets better, make decisions as though he never will". That was a huge help to my decisions making. I knew that there was a chance to get better but I couldn't make decisions based on hopes. If he did get better, we'd get back together. It has been three years since I made that decision and I am SOOOOO much healthier, my kids are doing awesome, and he is in the same boat, actually worse.

[ski04]

11d,
can I just say its probably a good thing she found out even though it wasnt the best way to find out? My oldest daughter now 19, 16 when her dad and i split told me afterward that she was glad i finally told her about his addiction bcuz she thought that there was "something wrong with me", that his distance and being aloof meant she wasnt loveable or important enough to pay attention to. It broke my heart that all my years of hiding it from her actually scarred her, I hadnt even thought of that, I was trying to save her from pain not create it. Just a thought i had to put out there and dont beat yourself up about it cant do anything to change it now.... I hope this helps and everything gets better for you!
~Ski