Need some insight - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

somebodysfool · 10-31-2005, 11:57 AM

My AH picked a fight and got sucked in for a while. Sometimes I just want to speak my mind or see what his thought process is. I didn't remain engaged in the agruement for very long and within a half hour he was drunk enough to forget what he was irritated about. He tends to need to get away probably to feed his coke habit or to make sure he is not missing a good time at another local. I don't really care. I just don't like it when he makes it about me. Just tell me I'm going to the other place I'll be back, I'll probably doubt he's telling the truth even if he is and whatever but stop picking fights with me.

This is not what I came here to get insight on... This is...during the bantering he said, "now go ahead a say it's about the alcohol, I've barely had anything to drink" (hee had a least the equivalent of 8 drinks in 3 hours but his tolerance level is so high he was not buzzed) I responded with, "I haven't said a word about the drinking since when...June? But I know what it is about." (meaning the disease is got him so tightly he can't recognize it. He is not aware of what it has done to him. He is in so much denial.) Or is he? Has anyone got any wisdom here? Manipulation? Total denial?

He knows things are so shaky with us he wants something other than the drinking to be the problem. I don't make him drink he has been doing that since he was 11 or 12, I don't drive him to do coke he did that before we met and now the habit is back after 15 years. And he has to deal with guilt about OWs. I know his problem is the drinking and I know he has to recognize that, does he recognize it? And is that why he said that? I don't get how he doesn't see the root of all of it. Is this normal?

I am progressing in my recovery. I choose to or not to go places with or without him. I am feeling good about myself and getting to know me again. I am stronger and not as fearful of life without him. Because the him I know hasn't been around in a year and I only catch glimpses of him here and there. I am getting on my own two feet. I am a whole person by myself. Is it all right to plant seeds to give food for thought? I ask that and then answer myself "like he'll even remember?" I need a line...like..."if you want to go, go but don't make this about me, I'll be here when you get back and if I leave to go home I will call you" Like a said I am progressing I am not perfect he knows he can still get me to cower if he blames me.

Anyway, I am just curious I guess if most A's don't get the disease or if they do and look for any other excuse for thier feelings or lack of feelings.

J

robina · 10-31-2005, 12:41 PM

When I started going to Alanaon they suggested that I attend as many "Open AA" meetings as possible. This is an AA meeting at which a recovered alcoholic speaks about their disease, and their recovery. They allow anyone in the general public to attend these speaker meetings.

I have gained much insight and some compassion from attending these meetings - so many ruined lives taken by this terrible disease.. but you can also see there is hope. It has given me a much better understanding of alcoholism. I now know that it is a disease, not a weakness of character.

Robin

minnie · 10-31-2005, 02:14 PM

Actually, I'm not sure that drinking is the root cause. I think drinking is still a symptom. Trying to fill the emotional void or self-medicating is closer to the truth.

somebodysfool · 10-31-2005, 03:17 PM

You are right, Minnie. He has so much baggage and listening to stories of his childhood I know the alcoholism came from all he went through and never learned to process in a healthy way. A couple of months ago his mom told me she always thought her family turned out all right in spite of what they dealt with...now she realizes they are all very sick. It took her 4th husband (a healthy relationship) to figure it out. She has been very supportive. I worry for my husband. But I no longer will worry about him more than he does. I hope.

J

Cap3 · 11-01-2005, 06:22 AM

Welcome S.B.F. You say that he has stories from his childhood,and that alcoholism,came from all he went through..
There are many folks whose childhood was horrendous,and they are ...not... alocholics.
I am alcoholic.I drank because the sun was shinning.I drank because the sun didnt shine.I drank because there was a wedding.I drank because there was a funeral.All were not true.The truth,is for myself,that i drank because i am ...alcoholic....No blaming conditions,people,and or places.Im alcoholic.May i suggest that you get information about this disease called alcoholism.This will arm you with insights.Less shockers of what alcoholic,does or doesnt do.Knowing that they are sick,and tempory insane.Insane?Of course,who would say,and do things that the alcoholics does.No sane person,would.My opinion.
Congrats,way to go on progressing in your own recovery.Thats where it all at...
keep on,keeping on,
God Bless,and take care!!!!

minnie · 11-01-2005, 06:30 AM

Quote:

There are many folks whose childhood was horrendous,and they are ...not... alocholics.

They may not be alcoholics, but I would stake my house on them bringing flawed coping strategies out of their childhood.

paula a. · 11-01-2005, 06:33 AM

J,
I believe that deep down inside they know.

My husband, in a weak moment, will admit that he has a problem.

I believe that they have so much guilt over not being in control, that they choose to bury the reality most of the time, and the blame has to be placed somewhere, anywhere that it isn't their responsibility, so they can live with themselves.

It is very sad, and very difficult to live with...

Hugs,
Paula

Cap3 · 11-01-2005, 10:14 AM

Hey Minnie,you say that they would bring flawed coping strategies.Of course everyone is different.Some folks i know,learned alot from having a horrendous childhood,and vowed that this would never happen in their own families,when they, get married,and have children.They did everything,another way that they learned from their situation.So really,the world and its folks are different.This has been the "stuff" that another makes big changes in their lives.And this also has been the stuff,where another is still in pain,and their coping skills,are still at a loss.There is hope for eveyone,who is willing to go for help,with their issues.When blame is on the outside,no one gets better,or weller.When one looks on the inside,and take actions,life begins to change for them.
Thanks for letting me share my "opinion",and my experience here.
Not saying im "right",ive just got a different spin on this...

minnie · 11-02-2005, 02:11 AM

Cap, I don't disagree with you that people are different, situations are different. And I am not for one minute suggesting that blame should be part of the equation - I think you know me better than that. The people who have overcome tremendous difficulties alone are to be admired and we can all learn lessons from them, I think. And I have - I know people who have had horrendous childhoods and have lived their lives and raised their children totally different from their own experience. My father was one of them. But even he will admit that there are parts of his life that he still struggles with, although he has made the choice to leave those well alone.

Yes, we do have a different spin on many things

. Wouldn't like be boring of we all thought the same?

Jazzman · 11-02-2005, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebodysfool

My AH picked a fight and got sucked in for a while. Sometimes I just want to speak my mind or see what his thought process is.

My ex wife would try like hell to suck me into a fight. She would pick a fight with me for no apparent reason, (to me). The only time I would get mad, (at myself) was when I allowed myself to get sucked in, all though rare it still happened from time to time. What's normal? The whys or reasons of the conflict, or need for conflict, deep rooted or caused by the alcohol... I got to the point where it just didn't matter anymore. The only thing that mattered was my reaction, and that's what I worked on.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Cap3 · 11-02-2005, 06:14 AM

Yupper Minnie,t-would be real boring if everyones,thoughts were just like mine...zzzzzzzzzzzzzz....lol

**Cynay** · 11-02-2005, 09:17 AM

My ex told me later, after the relationship was over, that many times he would pick a fight as an excuse to leave so he could go out to drink....

Also I think there is alot to be said for them just not wanting to be around people they know they disapoint. My ex would do everything possible to stay away from me, his parents and friends that were not partying. He just wanted to be around people who drank like he did and did not judge him for it.

I think this is the same too when he stopped drinking, so much guilt, hurt and anger and he just could/would not face people that were close enough to him to call BS on what he was doing.

FaithChaser · 11-02-2005, 10:06 AM

Hey Somebodysfool,

Like Paula, my ah will admit he has a problem in a weak moment, then after I've picked a fight exactly like Jazzman describes, he'll blame his need for drinking shots on me. The other night he even said, "Now look, you've made me drink!" I just responded by saying that I cannot make him drink, he's a foot taller than me and weighs about 100 pounds more than me, very doubtful I can make him do anything! He "gets" the disease, has been to meetings but still chooses to numb himself, whatever his reasons are it is his choice. When I say his choice, what I mean is not that it is not a disease but rather it is his choice to not fight it, go to meetings, find a sponsor, learn more about it etc. To FIGHT IT. In answer to your question, yes, my ah looks for excuses to keep himself drunk, and yes, he's a very intelligent man and he understands the disease.

Best of luck to you it's hard to not get sucked into those arguments or in my case cause a few...ugh!

Hugs!
~FaithChaser

cupowater · 11-03-2005, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paula a.

J,
I believe that deep down inside they know.

My husband, in a weak moment, will admit that he has a problem.

I believe that they have so much guilt over not being in control, that they choose to bury the reality most of the time, and the blame has to be placed somewhere, anywhere that it isn't their responsibility, so they can live with themselves.

It is very sad, and very difficult to live with...

I believe this too. He CAN'T not know!

FriendofBill · 11-03-2005, 02:52 PM

The root cause of alcoholism isnt the drinking...its just a disease. Drinking is but one of the many symptoms. Stop the drinking, still got a disease with many other symptoms.

Denial is, to me, the most significant symptom to overcome. My own, as well as their denial.

10-31-2005, 11:57 AM	#1 (permalink)
somebodysfool Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Windy City Burbs Posts: 100	Need some insight My AH picked a fight and got sucked in for a while. Sometimes I just want to speak my mind or see what his thought process is. I didn't remain engaged in the agruement for very long and within a half hour he was drunk enough to forget what he was irritated about. He tends to need to get away probably to feed his coke habit or to make sure he is not missing a good time at another local. I don't really care. I just don't like it when he makes it about me. Just tell me I'm going to the other place I'll be back, I'll probably doubt he's telling the truth even if he is and whatever but stop picking fights with me. This is not what I came here to get insight on... This is...during the bantering he said, "now go ahead a say it's about the alcohol, I've barely had anything to drink" (hee had a least the equivalent of 8 drinks in 3 hours but his tolerance level is so high he was not buzzed) I responded with, "I haven't said a word about the drinking since when...June? But I know what it is about." (meaning the disease is got him so tightly he can't recognize it. He is not aware of what it has done to him. He is in so much denial.) Or is he? Has anyone got any wisdom here? Manipulation? Total denial? He knows things are so shaky with us he wants something other than the drinking to be the problem. I don't make him drink he has been doing that since he was 11 or 12, I don't drive him to do coke he did that before we met and now the habit is back after 15 years. And he has to deal with guilt about OWs. I know his problem is the drinking and I know he has to recognize that, does he recognize it? And is that why he said that? I don't get how he doesn't see the root of all of it. Is this normal? I am progressing in my recovery. I choose to or not to go places with or without him. I am feeling good about myself and getting to know me again. I am stronger and not as fearful of life without him. Because the him I know hasn't been around in a year and I only catch glimpses of him here and there. I am getting on my own two feet. I am a whole person by myself. Is it all right to plant seeds to give food for thought? I ask that and then answer myself "like he'll even remember?" I need a line...like..."if you want to go, go but don't make this about me, I'll be here when you get back and if I leave to go home I will call you" Like a said I am progressing I am not perfect he knows he can still get me to cower if he blames me. Anyway, I am just curious I guess if most A's don't get the disease or if they do and look for any other excuse for thier feelings or lack of feelings. J

11-01-2005, 06:33 AM	#7 (permalink)
paula a. It's a Puggle! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: On the road to sanity Posts: 236	J, I believe that deep down inside they know. My husband, in a weak moment, will admit that he has a problem. I believe that they have so much guilt over not being in control, that they choose to bury the reality most of the time, and the blame has to be placed somewhere, anywhere that it isn't their responsibility, so they can live with themselves. It is very sad, and very difficult to live with... Hugs, Paula __________________ Screw the other shoe!

11-02-2005, 10:06 AM	#13 (permalink)
FaithChaser Ugh! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Enchanted Elmoland Posts: 180	Hey Somebodysfool, Like Paula, my ah will admit he has a problem in a weak moment, then after I've picked a fight exactly like Jazzman describes, he'll blame his need for drinking shots on me. The other night he even said, "Now look, you've made me drink!" I just responded by saying that I cannot make him drink, he's a foot taller than me and weighs about 100 pounds more than me, very doubtful I can make him do anything! He "gets" the disease, has been to meetings but still chooses to numb himself, whatever his reasons are it is his choice. When I say his choice, what I mean is not that it is not a disease but rather it is his choice to not fight it, go to meetings, find a sponsor, learn more about it etc. To FIGHT IT. In answer to your question, yes, my ah looks for excuses to keep himself drunk, and yes, he's a very intelligent man and he understands the disease. Best of luck to you it's hard to not get sucked into those arguments or in my case cause a few...ugh! Hugs! ~FaithChaser __________________ There are no short-cuts to any place worth going. ~Beverly Sills

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10-31-2005, 12:41 PM	#2 (permalink)
robina How Important Is It? Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cyberia Posts: 613	When I started going to Alanaon they suggested that I attend as many "Open AA" meetings as possible. This is an AA meeting at which a recovered alcoholic speaks about their disease, and their recovery. They allow anyone in the general public to attend these speaker meetings. I have gained much insight and some compassion from attending these meetings - so many ruined lives taken by this terrible disease.. but you can also see there is hope. It has given me a much better understanding of alcoholism. I now know that it is a disease, not a weakness of character. Robin

10-31-2005, 02:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
minnie Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: England Posts: 3,416	Actually, I'm not sure that drinking is the root cause. I think drinking is still a symptom. Trying to fill the emotional void or self-medicating is closer to the truth.

10-31-2005, 03:17 PM	#4 (permalink)
somebodysfool Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Windy City Burbs Posts: 100	You are right, Minnie. He has so much baggage and listening to stories of his childhood I know the alcoholism came from all he went through and never learned to process in a healthy way. A couple of months ago his mom told me she always thought her family turned out all right in spite of what they dealt with...now she realizes they are all very sick. It took her 4th husband (a healthy relationship) to figure it out. She has been very supportive. I worry for my husband. But I no longer will worry about him more than he does. I hope. J

11-01-2005, 06:22 AM	#5 (permalink)
Cap3 Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 732	Welcome S.B.F. You say that he has stories from his childhood,and that alcoholism,came from all he went through.. There are many folks whose childhood was horrendous,and they are ...not... alocholics. I am alcoholic.I drank because the sun was shinning.I drank because the sun didnt shine.I drank because there was a wedding.I drank because there was a funeral.All were not true.The truth,is for myself,that i drank because i am ...alcoholic....No blaming conditions,people,and or places.Im alcoholic.May i suggest that you get information about this disease called alcoholism.This will arm you with insights.Less shockers of what alcoholic,does or doesnt do.Knowing that they are sick,and tempory insane.Insane?Of course,who would say,and do things that the alcoholics does.No sane person,would.My opinion. Congrats,way to go on progressing in your own recovery.Thats where it all at... keep on,keeping on, God Bless,and take care!!!!

11-01-2005, 10:14 AM	#8 (permalink)
Cap3 Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 732	Hey Minnie,you say that they would bring flawed coping strategies.Of course everyone is different.Some folks i know,learned alot from having a horrendous childhood,and vowed that this would never happen in their own families,when they, get married,and have children.They did everything,another way that they learned from their situation.So really,the world and its folks are different.This has been the "stuff" that another makes big changes in their lives.And this also has been the stuff,where another is still in pain,and their coping skills,are still at a loss.There is hope for eveyone,who is willing to go for help,with their issues.When blame is on the outside,no one gets better,or weller.When one looks on the inside,and take actions,life begins to change for them. Thanks for letting me share my "opinion",and my experience here. Not saying im "right",ive just got a different spin on this...

11-02-2005, 02:11 AM	#9 (permalink)
minnie Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: England Posts: 3,416	Cap, I don't disagree with you that people are different, situations are different. And I am not for one minute suggesting that blame should be part of the equation - I think you know me better than that. The people who have overcome tremendous difficulties alone are to be admired and we can all learn lessons from them, I think. And I have - I know people who have had horrendous childhoods and have lived their lives and raised their children totally different from their own experience. My father was one of them. But even he will admit that there are parts of his life that he still struggles with, although he has made the choice to leave those well alone. Yes, we do have a different spin on many things . Wouldn't like be boring of we all thought the same?

11-02-2005, 06:14 AM	#11 (permalink)
Cap3 Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 732	Yupper Minnie,t-would be real boring if everyones,thoughts were just like mine...zzzzzzzzzzzzzz....lol

11-02-2005, 09:17 AM	#12 (permalink)
Cynay Forum Leader Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,700	My ex told me later, after the relationship was over, that many times he would pick a fight as an excuse to leave so he could go out to drink.... Also I think there is alot to be said for them just not wanting to be around people they know they disapoint. My ex would do everything possible to stay away from me, his parents and friends that were not partying. He just wanted to be around people who drank like he did and did not judge him for it. I think this is the same too when he stopped drinking, so much guilt, hurt and anger and he just could/would not face people that were close enough to him to call BS on what he was doing.

11-03-2005, 02:52 PM	#15 (permalink)
FriendofBill 1000 Post Club Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Recoveryville, USA Posts: 1,296	The root cause of alcoholism isnt the drinking...its just a disease. Drinking is but one of the many symptoms. Stop the drinking, still got a disease with many other symptoms. Denial is, to me, the most significant symptom to overcome. My own, as well as their denial.

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