It Isn't Tough Love (miff) - It's Self Love - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

**Ann** · 10-19-2002, 02:57 PM

When "normal" people ask me about my son and how I am handling it, I get really miffed when they say "Oh yes, that Tough Love really works". "You gotta be tough".

I try to explain to them that my program is NOT about HIM...that it is about loving myself and setting my boundaries, and about MY spirituality and self-respect.

To me, "Tough Love" would indicate that I am still trying to contol him by being tough and doing tough things to him...and that is not even close to where I am today.

I love my son unconditionally. I love him in his worst moment. There is nothing tough about that. I love him enough to "gently" let him go and find his own way.

Just needed to vent...I get a little miffed sometimes

bonbon · 10-19-2002, 03:35 PM

anns your awesome!!!!

Stephanie · 10-19-2002, 03:56 PM

Oh Anns, it sounds like you're doing so great
in a situation that would break most earth people
(that's what we call "normal people" in the other recovery group).
On top of that you help so many people here every day.
Earth people never understand and they never will.
You're awesome and it sounds like your son is lucky to have such a courageous mother!!!

Love,

Stephanie

10-19-2002, 04:05 PM

Well as most of us have found out the tough stuff doesn't work either.

So we are left with us and making the best us we can be. I've learned not to be too hard on people who don't understand. How could they understand? I go through this with a lot of issues.

Sexual abuse is even worse. I've watched so many women mistreated by people who have no clue. I think the thing that makes me angry is they answer and give advice and have a know at all attitude about something they have never experienced.

Maybe we should ask them how they know that.

Let it roll off.

Hugs,
MG

**Ann** · 10-19-2002, 05:26 PM

Thanks everyone

Searching, I love your term "earth' people. I used to feel like an alien from another planet, but now I feel like an albeit dysfunctional angel who has landed on a very strange planet and have found more of "my kind" right here on these boards.

I love you all for being here, even when I am miffed.

osier59 · 10-19-2002, 07:40 PM

Anns,
It is so hard to deal with the "others" who don't have a program and don't understand how we live our own lives. To me, you ARE practicing tough love.... its tough to love our addicts/alcoholics when they are acting they way they do, but its because of your program that you can love him no matter what and still be ok!

If that's not TOUGH love, I don't know what is

HUGS
Osier59

Kittycat · 10-19-2002, 08:35 PM

I am going crazy...I am. There is not doubt.
I went to our office where the A lives, and had the most bizarre hour with him. He acted like I was a some "chick' he wanted to hit on. At the same time a Sweetest day card arrived from some Bimbo, who signed it hg BJ! Then kissed the card with lipstick...OKKKKKKKKKKkkk now I know it is the woman he had here....it irritated me a ton. I made him open it infront of me. Well.........that even set off a huge blow up of I want you back, I need you, I will go to rehab. blah balh! I must say he looks like S>>>>>>>>>%^&*() on a stick! Bloated in the face...he was drinking his Grey Goose cocktail. But the strange thing was I got a kick out of it...I was laughing so hard the whole time..am I nuts or what!??? Is it is because I know I can leave and not have to come back? It was crazy. He then called me all night rarely did I answer, put back on his wedding ring, so he says, and told me he will make this right. He wants to DATE...you heard it right......ME!!!!! DATE ME! OMG!!!!!!!!! Do I really believe he will change...............NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....not really. I find this whole thing amusing, especially since our attys meet on Monday.
It is obvious to me he wants back in, and I am not letting him back. But what is going on? Attachment? Any ideas?
Love Kitty

Kittycat · 10-19-2002, 08:35 PM

I am going crazy...I am. There is not doubt.
I went to our office where the A lives, and had the most bizarre hour with him. He acted like I was a some "chick' he wanted to hit on. At the same time a Sweetest day card arrived from some Bimbo, who signed it hg BJ! Then kissed the card with lipstick...OKKKKKKKKKKkkk now I know it is the woman he had here....it irritated me a ton. I made him open it infront of me. Well.........that even set off a huge blow up of I want you back, I need you, I will go to rehab. blah balh! I must say he looks like S>>>>>>>>>%^&*() on a stick! Bloated in the face...he was drinking his Grey Goose cocktail. But the strange thing was I got a kick out of it...I was laughing so hard the whole time..am I nuts or what!??? Is it is because I know I can leave and not have to come back? It was crazy. He then called me all night rarely did I answer, put back on his wedding ring, so he says, and told me he will make this right. He wants to DATE...you heard it right......ME!!!!! DATE ME! OMG!!!!!!!!! Do I really believe he will change...............NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....not really. I find this whole thing amusing, especially since our attys meet on Monday.
It is obvious to me he wants back in, and I am not letting him back. But what is going on? Attachment? Any ideas?
Love Kitty

Kittycat · 10-19-2002, 08:35 PM

I am going crazy...I am. There is not doubt.
I went to our office where the A lives, and had the most bizarre hour with him. He acted like I was a some "chick' he wanted to hit on. At the same time a Sweetest day card arrived from some Bimbo, who signed it hg BJ! Then kissed the card with lipstick...OKKKKKKKKKKkkk now I know it is the woman he had here....it irritated me a ton. I made him open it infront of me. Well.........that even set off a huge blow up of I want you back, I need you, I will go to rehab. blah balh! I must say he looks like S>>>>>>>>>%^&*() on a stick! Bloated in the face...he was drinking his Grey Goose cocktail. But the strange thing was I got a kick out of it...I was laughing so hard the whole time..am I nuts or what!??? Is it is because I know I can leave and not have to come back? It was crazy. He then called me all night rarely did I answer, put back on his wedding ring, so he says, and told me he will make this right. He wants to DATE...you heard it right......ME!!!!! DATE ME! OMG!!!!!!!!! Do I really believe he will change...............NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....not really. I find this whole thing amusing, especially since our attys meet on Monday.
It is obvious to me he wants back in, and I am not letting him back. But what is going on? Attachment? Any ideas?
Love Kitty

**Ann** · 10-19-2002, 08:54 PM

Kitty - are we having a bad day??? Why do you go there? Why do you do this to yourself by letting him drive you nuts??

Relax Kitty, and try to calm down a little. Breathe in and out, and get yourself calm.

You gotta let go, Kitty, just stay clear of trouble like this. You don't need it.

Kittycat · 10-19-2002, 09:02 PM

I ..............MUST..............go there I am the President of our business I have to keep an eye on my employees. I have no choice. We are in the middle of a large deal, and I have to watch him ...he is smart like a fox and people stupid. He has no authority in the company ...holds no postition,but honestly he is the brains $$$$$$......law makes it a marital asset...it is pretty confusing ...but that is the way it is.
I have to attend a meeting with him on Monday.............!

: )
Love Kitty
Sorry about the triple posts...what happened there? : )

10-19-2002, 09:08 PM

Hey Kitty,

Sounds like you're holding on some for security reasons. It's your comfort zone. I've done this too.

Keep trying to let go. You know you can't go back to this. He can't get sober for you and he may not ever do it for himself. If he does you can go back later.

What can you do to give yourself a new life?

Hugs,
MG

Kittycat · 10-19-2002, 10:44 PM

I don't know. I really don't. It is not like I am drawn to him phsically.....that is a not. Maybe I just want to make his life hell?
Like he made mine for the last few years...I don't know...and I don't think that is it either.
It has me confused and my kids get angry( adult kids) when I speak to him.
I guess it could be my old comfort zone? I have told him clearly we are not going back. I won't do that...no way.
Love Kitty

Josie · 10-19-2002, 11:00 PM

Gee Kitty,
What is going to happen with this busi-
ness-are one of you taking it over when
this court deal is finished?
Ann, how about normies with their
thoughts about jail! Oh, the looks-this
is rock bottom in their eyes. I get
miffed with that look and they ask me
about my son. Ooooooh, and how can you
handle it, I would just die if my son
was in jail. Well, I'm handling it just
fine-thank you for asking. I have talked
about my recovery a couple of times, they don't have a clue what I'm talking about-never mind.

Hugs,

10-19-2002, 11:17 PM

Kitty,

I just went through that with my son tonight. I just want a normal life. I just could have beat the heck out of him just for being unable to take care of himself. I guess I lost my recovery tonight or haven't found it yet. I wish I could just let him be homeless, but I can't do it yet.

I was even thinking that I should pay his rent somewhere else so I can have some peace. That's how desperate I'm feeling right now.

Tomorrow will be a better day.

Hugs,
MG

smoke gets in my eyes · 10-19-2002, 11:41 PM

Oh, MG! You haven't lost your recovery. In fact I think you brought this thread back to where it started. Tough love is another way of trying to control an addict's using. It's okay if you want to give him a place to sleep... denying yourself that because making him be homeless might make him clean up... well you said it yourself. Tough love is no miracle cure.

As to getting mad at him... it's not as deep or as long an anger any more, is it? Even people who are not codependent get mad. It's okay, too.

And this is just my opinion, but if you can't afford to get the alarm, then you can't afford to pay his rent somewhere.

And Josie, you reminded me of the first time I got Dino out of jail. I was so horrified it nearly paralyzed me. That evolved into joking with the cat that I was "fixin' to spring Pappy from the pokey agin'."

Josie · 10-20-2002, 12:21 AM

Geez,
Is there something in the air today?
I was going to post today that I am now
officially nuts. I was wringing my
hands about my grandkids again, and
wanting to take a little drive and ring
their parents necks. M.G., I'm not
ready to throw my kids on the streets
either, don't beat yourself up. When
my son was out here, I did find him a
place after I kicked him out. I also
helped him with the rent when he was
short-enabling-I guess. But at that time
all I cared about was my sanity.
Smoke, I used to be horrified myself-
now-peace of cake. Either I'm numb to
it all or it's just getting easier.
You're right, tomorrow is another day.

Hugs,

10-19-2002, 02:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
Ann Sharing Our Light... Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: By The Lake Posts: 14,408	It Isn't Tough Love (miff) - It's Self Love When "normal" people ask me about my son and how I am handling it, I get really miffed when they say "Oh yes, that Tough Love really works". "You gotta be tough". I try to explain to them that my program is NOT about HIM...that it is about loving myself and setting my boundaries, and about MY spirituality and self-respect. To me, "Tough Love" would indicate that I am still trying to contol him by being tough and doing tough things to him...and that is not even close to where I am today. I love my son unconditionally. I love him in his worst moment. There is nothing tough about that. I love him enough to "gently" let him go and find his own way. Just needed to vent...I get a little miffed sometimes
	__________________ Somewhere between the gator swamp and the Taj Mahal, there is a path, it may be hidden, overgrown or may blend in with the other surroundings, but it is there, it's your path and it is calling you.~Frankly~

10-19-2002, 03:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
bonbon Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: North America Posts: 360	anns your awesome!!!!
	__________________ "Forgiving is not forgetting, it's letting go of the hurt." Mary McLeod Bethune <img src="http://www.animationlibrary.com/Animation11/Animals/Elephants/Small_elephant.gif">

10-19-2002, 03:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
Stephanie Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Basement Posts: 729	Oh Anns, it sounds like you're doing so great in a situation that would break most earth people (that's what we call "normal people" in the other recovery group). On top of that you help so many people here every day. Earth people never understand and they never will. You're awesome and it sounds like your son is lucky to have such a courageous mother!!! Love, Stephanie
	__________________ It isn't the mountain ahead that wears you out – it's the grain of sand in your shoe. Robert Service

10-19-2002, 04:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
Morning Glory Guest Posts: n/a	Well as most of us have found out the tough stuff doesn't work either. So we are left with us and making the best us we can be. I've learned not to be too hard on people who don't understand. How could they understand? I go through this with a lot of issues. Sexual abuse is even worse. I've watched so many women mistreated by people who have no clue. I think the thing that makes me angry is they answer and give advice and have a know at all attitude about something they have never experienced. Maybe we should ask them how they know that. Let it roll off. Hugs, MG
Morning Glory Guest Posts: n/a

10-19-2002, 05:26 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ann Sharing Our Light... Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: By The Lake Posts: 14,408	Thanks everyone Searching, I love your term "earth' people. I used to feel like an alien from another planet, but now I feel like an albeit dysfunctional angel who has landed on a very strange planet and have found more of "my kind" right here on these boards. I love you all for being here, even when I am miffed.
	__________________ Somewhere between the gator swamp and the Taj Mahal, there is a path, it may be hidden, overgrown or may blend in with the other surroundings, but it is there, it's your path and it is calling you.~Frankly~

10-19-2002, 07:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
osier59 No More Mrs. Nice Guy Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 723	Anns, It is so hard to deal with the "others" who don't have a program and don't understand how we live our own lives. To me, you ARE practicing tough love.... its tough to love our addicts/alcoholics when they are acting they way they do, but its because of your program that you can love him no matter what and still be ok! If that's not TOUGH love, I don't know what is HUGS Osier59

10-19-2002, 08:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
Kittycat Fantastic Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 176	*What a $%^&(* day I had!!!** I am going crazy...I am. There is not doubt. I went to our office where the A lives, and had the most bizarre hour with him. He acted like I was a some "chick' he wanted to hit on. At the same time a Sweetest day card arrived from some Bimbo, who signed it hg BJ! Then kissed the card with lipstick...OKKKKKKKKKKkkk now I know it is the woman he had here....it irritated me a ton. I made him open it infront of me. Well.........that even set off a huge blow up of I want you back, I need you, I will go to rehab. blah balh! I must say he looks like S>>>>>>>>>%^&*() on a stick! Bloated in the face...he was drinking his Grey Goose cocktail. But the strange thing was I got a kick out of it...I was laughing so hard the whole time..am I nuts or what!??? Is it is because I know I can leave and not have to come back? It was crazy. He then called me all night rarely did I answer, put back on his wedding ring, so he says, and told me he will make this right. He wants to DATE...you heard it right......ME!!!!! DATE ME! OMG!!!!!!!!! Do I really believe he will change...............NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....not really. I find this whole thing amusing, especially since our attys meet on Monday. It is obvious to me he wants back in, and I am not letting him back. But what is going on? Attachment? Any ideas? Love Kitty

10-19-2002, 08:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
Kittycat Fantastic Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 176	*What a $%^&(* day I had!!!** I am going crazy...I am. There is not doubt. I went to our office where the A lives, and had the most bizarre hour with him. He acted like I was a some "chick' he wanted to hit on. At the same time a Sweetest day card arrived from some Bimbo, who signed it hg BJ! Then kissed the card with lipstick...OKKKKKKKKKKkkk now I know it is the woman he had here....it irritated me a ton. I made him open it infront of me. Well.........that even set off a huge blow up of I want you back, I need you, I will go to rehab. blah balh! I must say he looks like S>>>>>>>>>%^&*() on a stick! Bloated in the face...he was drinking his Grey Goose cocktail. But the strange thing was I got a kick out of it...I was laughing so hard the whole time..am I nuts or what!??? Is it is because I know I can leave and not have to come back? It was crazy. He then called me all night rarely did I answer, put back on his wedding ring, so he says, and told me he will make this right. He wants to DATE...you heard it right......ME!!!!! DATE ME! OMG!!!!!!!!! Do I really believe he will change...............NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....not really. I find this whole thing amusing, especially since our attys meet on Monday. It is obvious to me he wants back in, and I am not letting him back. But what is going on? Attachment? Any ideas? Love Kitty

10-19-2002, 08:35 PM	#9 (permalink)
Kittycat Fantastic Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 176	*What a $%^&(* day I had!!!** I am going crazy...I am. There is not doubt. I went to our office where the A lives, and had the most bizarre hour with him. He acted like I was a some "chick' he wanted to hit on. At the same time a Sweetest day card arrived from some Bimbo, who signed it hg BJ! Then kissed the card with lipstick...OKKKKKKKKKKkkk now I know it is the woman he had here....it irritated me a ton. I made him open it infront of me. Well.........that even set off a huge blow up of I want you back, I need you, I will go to rehab. blah balh! I must say he looks like S>>>>>>>>>%^&*() on a stick! Bloated in the face...he was drinking his Grey Goose cocktail. But the strange thing was I got a kick out of it...I was laughing so hard the whole time..am I nuts or what!??? Is it is because I know I can leave and not have to come back? It was crazy. He then called me all night rarely did I answer, put back on his wedding ring, so he says, and told me he will make this right. He wants to DATE...you heard it right......ME!!!!! DATE ME! OMG!!!!!!!!! Do I really believe he will change...............NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....not really. I find this whole thing amusing, especially since our attys meet on Monday. It is obvious to me he wants back in, and I am not letting him back. But what is going on? Attachment? Any ideas? Love Kitty

10-19-2002, 08:54 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ann Sharing Our Light... Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: By The Lake Posts: 14,408	Kitty - are we having a bad day??? Why do you go there? Why do you do this to yourself by letting him drive you nuts?? Relax Kitty, and try to calm down a little. Breathe in and out, and get yourself calm. You gotta let go, Kitty, just stay clear of trouble like this. You don't need it.
	__________________ Somewhere between the gator swamp and the Taj Mahal, there is a path, it may be hidden, overgrown or may blend in with the other surroundings, but it is there, it's your path and it is calling you.~Frankly~

10-19-2002, 09:02 PM	#11 (permalink)
Kittycat Fantastic Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 176	I ..............MUST..............go there I am the President of our business I have to keep an eye on my employees. I have no choice. We are in the middle of a large deal, and I have to watch him ...he is smart like a fox and people stupid. He has no authority in the company ...holds no postition,but honestly he is the brains $$$$$$......law makes it a marital asset...it is pretty confusing ...but that is the way it is. I have to attend a meeting with him on Monday.............! : ) Love Kitty Sorry about the triple posts...what happened there? : )

10-19-2002, 09:08 PM	#12 (permalink)
Morning Glory Guest Posts: n/a	Hey Kitty, Sounds like you're holding on some for security reasons. It's your comfort zone. I've done this too. Keep trying to let go. You know you can't go back to this. He can't get sober for you and he may not ever do it for himself. If he does you can go back later. What can you do to give yourself a new life? Hugs, MG
Morning Glory Guest Posts: n/a

10-19-2002, 10:44 PM	#13 (permalink)
Kittycat Fantastic Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 176	I don't know. I really don't. It is not like I am drawn to him phsically.....that is a not. Maybe I just want to make his life hell? Like he made mine for the last few years...I don't know...and I don't think that is it either. It has me confused and my kids get angry( adult kids) when I speak to him. I guess it could be my old comfort zone? I have told him clearly we are not going back. I won't do that...no way. Love Kitty

10-19-2002, 11:00 PM	#14 (permalink)
Josie Grace Under Fire Join Date: May 2002 Location: Another world Posts: 540	Gee Kitty, What is going to happen with this busi- ness-are one of you taking it over when this court deal is finished? Ann, how about normies with their thoughts about jail! Oh, the looks-this is rock bottom in their eyes. I get miffed with that look and they ask me about my son. Ooooooh, and how can you handle it, I would just die if my son was in jail. Well, I'm handling it just fine-thank you for asking. I have talked about my recovery a couple of times, they don't have a clue what I'm talking about-never mind. Hugs,
	__________________ Josie

10-19-2002, 11:17 PM	#15 (permalink)
Morning Glory Guest Posts: n/a	Kitty, I just went through that with my son tonight. I just want a normal life. I just could have beat the heck out of him just for being unable to take care of himself. I guess I lost my recovery tonight or haven't found it yet. I wish I could just let him be homeless, but I can't do it yet. I was even thinking that I should pay his rent somewhere else so I can have some peace. That's how desperate I'm feeling right now. Tomorrow will be a better day. Hugs, MG
Morning Glory Guest Posts: n/a

10-19-2002, 11:41 PM	#16 (permalink)
smoke gets in my eyes 1000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: That's what I'd like to know. Posts: 2,433	Oh, MG! You haven't lost your recovery. In fact I think you brought this thread back to where it started. Tough love is another way of trying to control an addict's using. It's okay if you want to give him a place to sleep... denying yourself that because making him be homeless might make him clean up... well you said it yourself. Tough love is no miracle cure. As to getting mad at him... it's not as deep or as long an anger any more, is it? Even people who are not codependent get mad. It's okay, too. And this is just my opinion, but if you can't afford to get the alarm, then you can't afford to pay his rent somewhere. And Josie, you reminded me of the first time I got Dino out of jail. I was so horrified it nearly paralyzed me. That evolved into joking with the cat that I was "fixin' to spring Pappy from the pokey agin'."

10-20-2002, 12:21 AM	#17 (permalink)
Josie Grace Under Fire Join Date: May 2002 Location: Another world Posts: 540	Geez, Is there something in the air today? I was going to post today that I am now officially nuts. I was wringing my hands about my grandkids again, and wanting to take a little drive and ring their parents necks. M.G., I'm not ready to throw my kids on the streets either, don't beat yourself up. When my son was out here, I did find him a place after I kicked him out. I also helped him with the rent when he was short-enabling-I guess. But at that time all I cared about was my sanity. Smoke, I used to be horrified myself- now-peace of cake. Either I'm numb to it all or it's just getting easier. You're right, tomorrow is another day. Hugs,
	__________________ Josie

10-20-2002, 08:00 AM	#18 (permalink)
Ann Sharing Our Light... Join Date: Mar 2002