Do alcoholics really love us?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 133
From the codie perspective....it's important for us to believe that we were (or are) loved. It validates us. It makes us believe that all we have been through was for love, and if it wasn't love, then why? Somehow, I always feel better when I believe it was love. As a codie, I got this thought in my head, that HE was the one, HE was my soul-mate, we shared things like he's never shared before. I got blinders on thinking that if I didn't have this one man in my life, I would NEVER know love again. I limited myself. I limited my life.
The flip side to this one is this...As a RA, I can tell you all that when I was using, I did love. I loved the alcohol. It was my lover, my friend, it made all the feelings go away...and then it turned on me. This RA drank to NOT feel anything. That was my goal. So when love gets talked about, I can relate on both sides, as I'm sure many people here can. I hated myself when I used, which pretty much made loving anybody else impossible. I think what I loved during those times was what people DID for me, not how they felt about me. The more you did for me, (to help me obtain what I wanted, which was to drink) the more I wanted you around. When that stopped, it was on to the next. I may have had some feeling of sadness, but, it was easy to drink those away too. It's a horrible disease.
The flip side to this one is this...As a RA, I can tell you all that when I was using, I did love. I loved the alcohol. It was my lover, my friend, it made all the feelings go away...and then it turned on me. This RA drank to NOT feel anything. That was my goal. So when love gets talked about, I can relate on both sides, as I'm sure many people here can. I hated myself when I used, which pretty much made loving anybody else impossible. I think what I loved during those times was what people DID for me, not how they felt about me. The more you did for me, (to help me obtain what I wanted, which was to drink) the more I wanted you around. When that stopped, it was on to the next. I may have had some feeling of sadness, but, it was easy to drink those away too. It's a horrible disease.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 149
I’m really enjoying this thread. I’ve asked myself many of the same questions in regards to xabf…did he really love me? Is it possible he *thought* he loved me but really didn’t? was he fooling himself and me at the same time? I’m still grappling with these questions, our relationship ended a few months ago. And I know my feelings and thoughts change daily – for right now, I’m choosing to believe that he did love me, but that his ability to love me the way I want and need to be loved, the way I think one should be loved in a romantic relationship, was greatly hindered by his addiction. I’m not sure which is sadder: believing that it was all a sham, that he never truly loved me, or believing that he is just unable to love anyone truly.
Man I can relate to this SO MUCH. I had CRAZY blinders on…I felt for sure xabf was the one. And that was that – just like that, I gave up my life, my friends, my family, my car, everything, to move thousands of miles away to be with him. I was THAT sure that things would work out. Fast-forward to now, and he kicked me out of his house and dumped me. I was stunned. That wasn’t in the plan at all. I hadn’t even thought of that as a possibility. How blinded I was!
Originally Posted by harleyd101
From the codie perspective....it's important for us to believe that we were (or are) loved. It validates us. It makes us believe that all we have been through was for love, and if it wasn't love, then why? Somehow, I always feel better when I believe it was love. As a codie, I got this thought in my head, that HE was the one, HE was my soul-mate, we shared things like he's never shared before. I got blinders on thinking that if I didn't have this one man in my life, I would NEVER know love again. I limited myself. I limited my life.
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California
Posts: 131
Interesting set of posts.... my thoughts... which echo some of what others have said are these.
1. When someone is in active addiction, the concept of love for anything other than their drug of choice does not exist. It may sound harsh, but it seems to be true. The ONLY thing they care about is getting the next opportunity to drink and drug.
2. When someone is in early recovery, he or she is struggling with learning how to love and treat themselves well. If you don't love yourself, I believe that loving someone else is just this side of impossible. Recovery, especially in its early stages, has to be an incredibly selfish process. It is about survival. The addict or alcoholic really can't focus on anything or anyone else. This has been a VERY hard lesson to me to learn. My xAGF is at best very early in her recovery. She really thinks of no one but herself. But I have come to understand that it is about her survival. If she can't find a way to stay clean and sober, death or jail is the inevitable outcome.
3. Can an addict or alcoholic who is strong and well into their recovery really love someone? I know 2 recovering alcoholics... both are well into their recovery. They both really struggle with the concept of agape love. For me, the jury is still out on this one.
TWA
1. When someone is in active addiction, the concept of love for anything other than their drug of choice does not exist. It may sound harsh, but it seems to be true. The ONLY thing they care about is getting the next opportunity to drink and drug.
2. When someone is in early recovery, he or she is struggling with learning how to love and treat themselves well. If you don't love yourself, I believe that loving someone else is just this side of impossible. Recovery, especially in its early stages, has to be an incredibly selfish process. It is about survival. The addict or alcoholic really can't focus on anything or anyone else. This has been a VERY hard lesson to me to learn. My xAGF is at best very early in her recovery. She really thinks of no one but herself. But I have come to understand that it is about her survival. If she can't find a way to stay clean and sober, death or jail is the inevitable outcome.
3. Can an addict or alcoholic who is strong and well into their recovery really love someone? I know 2 recovering alcoholics... both are well into their recovery. They both really struggle with the concept of agape love. For me, the jury is still out on this one.
TWA
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Do alcoholics really love us?
...do our alcoholic partners really love us like they say they do?
do they realise half of what they put us through and how upset they make us?
Do they feel any guilt when they lie to us about how much they've had to drink/how much money they've spent on drink? Do they even know they are lying in the first place? Do they realise that we know they're lying?
Of course, a person with true narcissistic or antisocial personality disorder (which can only be diagnosed by a physician), by definition would not feel guilt at his own behavior. Alcoholics and addicts often APPEAR to have narcissistic or antisocial personality disorder, but that doesn't mean they medically do.
Do they think about things from our perspectives at all? Or are they too wrapped up in themselves and their problem to be able to do this?
Miracles Happen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,977
As an alcoholic in sobriety I can tell you that Yes, I do love and always did. The problem when I was drinking/drugging was that I was so caught up in my disease that even though it seemed that I did not love, I didn't love myself and tried to turn all those close to me away. It seemed to be the only way I couldn't hurt them if I made them turn against me.
I apologize for any hurt I may have caused to anyone close to me.
I hope I didn't barge in where I didn't belong.
I apologize for any hurt I may have caused to anyone close to me.
I hope I didn't barge in where I didn't belong.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Hey Believe808,
Of course you aren't "barging in." I personally am very grateful for your post. Your post helps me to know that my belief that my Dad TRULY LOVES me, no matter what has occurred in the past, is TRUE. Your post validated me, my feelings, and my existence in this world. Thank you.
Of course you aren't "barging in." I personally am very grateful for your post. Your post helps me to know that my belief that my Dad TRULY LOVES me, no matter what has occurred in the past, is TRUE. Your post validated me, my feelings, and my existence in this world. Thank you.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: OK
Posts: 85
Originally Posted by queenie88 
I’m really enjoying this thread. I’ve asked myself many of the same questions in regards to xabf…did he really love me? Is it possible he *thought* he loved me but really didn’t? was he fooling himself and me at the same time? I’m still grappling with these questions, our relationship ended a few months ago. And I know my feelings and thoughts change daily – for right now, I’m choosing to believe that he did love me, but that his ability to love me the way I want and need to be loved, the way I think one should be loved in a romantic relationship, was greatly hindered by his addiction. I’m not sure which is sadder: believing that it was all a sham, that he never truly loved me, or believing that he is just unable to love anyone truly.
I could have written this exactly!! I'm still trying to understand it all.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 611
Originally Posted by Daneydoo
One thing that's always come to mind is do our alcoholic partners really love us like they say they do and do they realise half of what they put us through and how upset they make us?
Do they feel any guilt when they lie to us about how much they've had to drink/how much money they've spent on drink? Do they even know they are lying in the first place? Do they realise that we know they're lying?
Do they think about things from our perspectives at all? Or are they too wrapped up in themselves and their problem to be able to do this?
Do they feel any guilt when they lie to us about how much they've had to drink/how much money they've spent on drink? Do they even know they are lying in the first place? Do they realise that we know they're lying?
Do they think about things from our perspectives at all? Or are they too wrapped up in themselves and their problem to be able to do this?
I'm sorry this is the reality of addiction. I wish our addicts would just get it but they don't until they are well into recovery. :sorry
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where the streets have no name
Posts: 1,078
Originally Posted by Gabe
Oh no you don't.
I'll have none of you going numb again.
Feeling inconsequential to someone has got to be one of the hardest hurts to deal with.
Hugs to you from me Bike.
Do addicts love?
Of course they do.
They are human beings with feelings just like the rest of us.
They may not be able to show that love in appropriate ways while they're using, but that doesn't mean the feelings are gone.
I'll have none of you going numb again.
Feeling inconsequential to someone has got to be one of the hardest hurts to deal with.
Hugs to you from me Bike.
Do addicts love?
Of course they do.
They are human beings with feelings just like the rest of us.
They may not be able to show that love in appropriate ways while they're using, but that doesn't mean the feelings are gone.
Addicts love to get high/drunk above all= number 1 priority. Any love they have for others is not strong/important enough to make them choose loved ones over getting high. Loved ones become people to use for shelter, food, cash. They not infrequently steal from loved ones. Recently a mother chose to drink before driving children and killed multiple children and adults. Because of these things, if addicts have any love for others it is largely inconsequential.
My aw told me "if you love me you will give me money to drink" = pure manipulation employing "love"
When I replied that I don't want to help her to hurt herself all rage ensued. I used to cry when I'd saw her in bed with a horrific hangover reaching her hand out to mine. In a loving way I begged her to stop hurting herself.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Merced, CA
Posts: 77
Hello Daneydoo:
I suggest you get an excellent book titled "Under the Influence". It will go into great detail about what the alcoholic is feeling. It offers a look into the alcoholic's baffling mind, and it very emphatically states that the alcoholic DOES suffer grief, shame, remorse, self-hatred, despair and other emotions such as we have. But alcohol is a cruel master and the human emotions we have are cast aside when alcoholism is in control.
Their very cells have become addicted to alcohol (if they ARE alcoholics) and they lose their humanity in the process.
One asks: Is the alcoholic really the person they are when they are drinking? Is the drunken person revealing their "true" self? The answer is NO. Alcohol has robbed them of their humanity, their identity, their very dignity as a human being.
It is tragic.
Electa
I suggest you get an excellent book titled "Under the Influence". It will go into great detail about what the alcoholic is feeling. It offers a look into the alcoholic's baffling mind, and it very emphatically states that the alcoholic DOES suffer grief, shame, remorse, self-hatred, despair and other emotions such as we have. But alcohol is a cruel master and the human emotions we have are cast aside when alcoholism is in control.
Their very cells have become addicted to alcohol (if they ARE alcoholics) and they lose their humanity in the process.
One asks: Is the alcoholic really the person they are when they are drinking? Is the drunken person revealing their "true" self? The answer is NO. Alcohol has robbed them of their humanity, their identity, their very dignity as a human being.
It is tragic.
Electa
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wild West, USA
Posts: 407
Oh, dang. I can't see the original post. OK, oh well. This is what I've seen:
My former husband loves very much. Our daughter is the delight of his life. But he doesn't think he deserves love, and therefore treats those closest to him as poorly as he does himself. Nothing unusual there.
He is incapacitated in the empathy department and my belief is that this isn't the result of his alcoholism, but contributes to it (he thinks he has Asperger Syndrome... I don't agree, but I see why he believes that). I had a rare fight with him over the phone last year, and I asked him several times: "How would YOU feel if our positions were REVERSED?!?" Stone sober, he was still incapable of answering the question.
There's a cable in his head somewhere labeled everyone else's point of view that isn't plugged in right. He's gotten more than one job review where his poor interpersonal judgment was brought to his attention. I remember him once telling me with frustration that he wished he could figure out a way to have better judgment-- he'd do it if he knew how.
He does feel guilty about the effects of his dishonesty and addiction-- he's not very good at hiding it. To others, he tends less towards overt lying and more towards omitting pertinent truths. But good lord, he can sell himself the most outrageous bs. At the end of the day, that's why I asked him to move out. It was just too hard to have a relationship with someone whose primary aim was to conceal the truth from himself. It made communication impossible. Argh.
My former husband loves very much. Our daughter is the delight of his life. But he doesn't think he deserves love, and therefore treats those closest to him as poorly as he does himself. Nothing unusual there.
He is incapacitated in the empathy department and my belief is that this isn't the result of his alcoholism, but contributes to it (he thinks he has Asperger Syndrome... I don't agree, but I see why he believes that). I had a rare fight with him over the phone last year, and I asked him several times: "How would YOU feel if our positions were REVERSED?!?" Stone sober, he was still incapable of answering the question.
There's a cable in his head somewhere labeled everyone else's point of view that isn't plugged in right. He's gotten more than one job review where his poor interpersonal judgment was brought to his attention. I remember him once telling me with frustration that he wished he could figure out a way to have better judgment-- he'd do it if he knew how.
He does feel guilty about the effects of his dishonesty and addiction-- he's not very good at hiding it. To others, he tends less towards overt lying and more towards omitting pertinent truths. But good lord, he can sell himself the most outrageous bs. At the end of the day, that's why I asked him to move out. It was just too hard to have a relationship with someone whose primary aim was to conceal the truth from himself. It made communication impossible. Argh.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1
Do they love us?
No, I can't believe they do. This is my second marriage, my first wife died and I un-wittingly married an alcoholic. She did a great job of covering it up. Every excuse imaginable, bi-polar disorder, depression, sexual abuse, you name it she has an excuse for her behavior.
A few months into the relationship, her daughter who is in her 20's, had a complete break down, it landed her in a mental hospital for many weeks. Her kid's have suffered tremendous agony from fetal alcohol syndrome. This woman is so engaged to her bottle that she will never tell them the truth. She will carry it to her grave and continue to blame everyone and everything in her life just so she feels justified.
No, an alcoholic loves one thing, their bottle of booze and that is all they love.
A few months into the relationship, her daughter who is in her 20's, had a complete break down, it landed her in a mental hospital for many weeks. Her kid's have suffered tremendous agony from fetal alcohol syndrome. This woman is so engaged to her bottle that she will never tell them the truth. She will carry it to her grave and continue to blame everyone and everything in her life just so she feels justified.
No, an alcoholic loves one thing, their bottle of booze and that is all they love.
Black and Yellow
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,359
This is just my opinion (based on my experience with my parents being alcoholics) but I think:
Yes
And Yes.
Originally Posted by Daneydoo
.....do our alcoholic partners really love us like they say they do....
Yes
Or are they too wrapped up in themselves and their problem to be able to do this?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Baghdad
Posts: 2,822
Originally Posted by Daneydoo
Or are they too wrapped up in themselves and their problem to be able to do this?
What difference does it make?
I spent so much time and energy wrapped up in her problem, I managed to completely ignore my own.
Maybe that was the whole point.
As long as I was engaged, I never had to look at my end.
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
I like the way SilverMag said it.
and thanks, Sailor John.
I haven't re-read the whole post.
I believe my alcoholics love me in a certain manner but it isn't really good (or good ENOUGH) for me.
That is the part I get to make a choice about.
and thanks, Sailor John.
I haven't re-read the whole post.
I believe my alcoholics love me in a certain manner but it isn't really good (or good ENOUGH) for me.
That is the part I get to make a choice about.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,292
This is a great thread and glad it was "dug" up!
I believe my ex RABF loved me in his own way. He lied to me often and cheated so I think his lack of love/respect was for himself.
I truly believe in my heart he wanted to feel "normal" and be "normal" and have a fun and healthy relationship
I think ultimately most humans lack self love, A's or not, codie's or not, we all struggle with who we are.
I believe my ex RABF loved me in his own way. He lied to me often and cheated so I think his lack of love/respect was for himself.
I truly believe in my heart he wanted to feel "normal" and be "normal" and have a fun and healthy relationship
I think ultimately most humans lack self love, A's or not, codie's or not, we all struggle with who we are.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 57
I've been asking this "love" question about my RABF who I never saw as an active A, just recovering. A lot of his actions sounds a lot like an active A but he swears he works a program. But the lying, manipulating and his actions not matching his words especially when he says he loves me but doesn't actually show he loves me were just too much for me to handle anymore. Just too much hurt I had to let go or be dragged. Would like to hear more from others who were in relationships with RA and if their actions mimicked active A's.
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
What difference does it make?
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