lost
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Join Date: Jun 2017
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lost
Where to start ... I married my husband and two months later he told me he was joining aa. This was rather a shock as I didn't even notice there was an issue. We then moved to a new country for his job leaving me with no support network to work through my issues with this...Skip forward two years, he has worked the program and is still sober. We have had our ups and downs, but we have just found out that I am two months pregnant and planning on moving to a new country in a few days.
so heres the problem.... I don't know much about what goes on in AA as i try to let him do his thing. This week he was doing step 4 with his sponsor before we leave and he has explained parts of it to me. I was curious to see if I was on it and I looked,.... the moment I did I instantly regretted it. I understand its his personal and private thoughts and past.. I just searched for my name and found it last on the list.. it said that I'm not pretty enough for him.... I just don't know how to come back from this. I just need some advice I already know that I should not have read it but its too late now, its done.
so heres the problem.... I don't know much about what goes on in AA as i try to let him do his thing. This week he was doing step 4 with his sponsor before we leave and he has explained parts of it to me. I was curious to see if I was on it and I looked,.... the moment I did I instantly regretted it. I understand its his personal and private thoughts and past.. I just searched for my name and found it last on the list.. it said that I'm not pretty enough for him.... I just don't know how to come back from this. I just need some advice I already know that I should not have read it but its too late now, its done.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I hate to say it, but that's what comes from snooping--we often learn things we would be happier not knowing.
Since you don't know much about AA, let me explain what a Fourth Step is. It is a "searching and fearless moral inventory." Ultimately it will be discussed with his sponsor as part of his Fifth Step. What's on his Fourth Step is most likely things he is ashamed of. So it's not a list of what he is unhappy about in his life, it is things he wants to change about HIMSELF. The focus in AA is on doing the INTERNAL work to have a spiritual awakening.
So maybe he is ashamed that he cares so much about looks in people. Maybe he internally sometimes has critical thoughts about how you look. The thing is, he married YOU, not someone "prettier." There is ALWAYS someone out there more attractive than we are. The other thing is that he apparently doesn't want to feel that way. So it looks like he's thinking he wants to work on that shallow part of him that has those thoughts.
Are you going to Al-Anon? I think it might be helpful for YOU to talk to someone in the program to (a) put this in perspective for you and (b) deal with your own need to pry into his personal recovery business.
I think your reaction is understandable, but I think it's very promising he is doing all this work on himself--it bodes well for his recovery and, ultimately, your relationship. Al-Anon for you would put the two of you more on the same page, so to speak.
Since you don't know much about AA, let me explain what a Fourth Step is. It is a "searching and fearless moral inventory." Ultimately it will be discussed with his sponsor as part of his Fifth Step. What's on his Fourth Step is most likely things he is ashamed of. So it's not a list of what he is unhappy about in his life, it is things he wants to change about HIMSELF. The focus in AA is on doing the INTERNAL work to have a spiritual awakening.
So maybe he is ashamed that he cares so much about looks in people. Maybe he internally sometimes has critical thoughts about how you look. The thing is, he married YOU, not someone "prettier." There is ALWAYS someone out there more attractive than we are. The other thing is that he apparently doesn't want to feel that way. So it looks like he's thinking he wants to work on that shallow part of him that has those thoughts.
Are you going to Al-Anon? I think it might be helpful for YOU to talk to someone in the program to (a) put this in perspective for you and (b) deal with your own need to pry into his personal recovery business.
I think your reaction is understandable, but I think it's very promising he is doing all this work on himself--it bodes well for his recovery and, ultimately, your relationship. Al-Anon for you would put the two of you more on the same page, so to speak.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,144
Hi Jordan,
It hurts to see it in writing. What I take from it is it was in the bottom of his list. When someone is searching for those last bits of inventory that is his thoughts. It wasn't the first thing that came to his mind.
It hurts to see it in writing. What I take from it is it was in the bottom of his list. When someone is searching for those last bits of inventory that is his thoughts. It wasn't the first thing that came to his mind.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by LexieCat 
Since you don't know much about AA, let me explain what a Fourth Step is. It is a "searching and fearless moral inventory." Ultimately it will be discussed with his sponsor as part of his Fifth Step. What's on his Fourth Step is most likely things he is ashamed of. So it's not a list of what he is unhappy about in his life, it is things he wants to change about HIMSELF. The focus in AA is on doing the INTERNAL work to have a spiritual awakening.
I don't really have any experience to share except that these situations are the reason I stopped snooping years ago. I was always the one getting hurt.
But in reading this thread I have to say I seems that there is a big difference to what you experienced Nata - your ex was leaving these lists around as a tactic in emotional manipulation & you really didn't have to go snooping to find anything - it was laid bare in your path over & over again. Seems different than purposely searching out private thoughts that were hidden away. JMHO
I'm sorry Jordan, there's no way to not feel hurt after reading something like that.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 667
I tend to agree that is is HIM that is taking inventory of HIS failings.
Coming from a male perspective a tiny bit. There are certain things that we can never talk about. If a woman has a weight problem....off limits.....It is worse if they didn't have a weight issue when you meet and it develops later. If we don't agree on how the rear children that are not ours.....off limits.
etc etc etc.
I have no idea what you look like. Nor does it matter.
But let me ask this........how would he talk to you about this?
I think its just an off limits topic that he knows he has to keep to himself.
You have things you keep to yourself. You know you do. Does he have a right to that information?
As to how you came to learn them....that is open to interpretation. I was going to individual counseling. Part of that process required a 3 ring bound notebook of lots of intimate things I was being asked to write about in the context of what my therapist was requiring. It was like a diary of how I developed thoughts. There was much information in it that was totally private and never meant to be shared with anyone.
I would leave this in my car, or in my desk or etc etc around my home. Not under lock and key. Sometimes you have to write in the moment as things occur mentally.
My ex took it upon herself to decide to read it. All hell broke lose because of it. I was at fault for leaving unlocked and accessible. Even though it was never there for anyone to see. Her perspective was, if she had access, she had a right.
I won't argue the right or wrong of that thinking. It caused me to realize that I would l have to live under lock and key if I stayed with her. And even then, she'd still apply pressure with the "Oh you are keeping secrets from me and so I have trust issues with you" argument.
I was in a no win scenario no matter what.
And P.S. I went to Al-Anon and learned the Step about making amends.
My ex paid a lot of attention and time to making public apologies and amends to everyone......but me. I got a very side handed attempt that was something like. "All the pain I caused you.......I'm sorry". I responded with, "Do you even have any idea what those pains are?" That was the wrong answer. She blew up. Yet for everyone else, she took great lengths to talk discuss, learn and offer long heartfelt sounding apologies.
In the end it was all short lived. She never changed her lifestyle. She simply sets up tent in someone elses life and starts all over with new people.
When we first met, my ex asked me if I found her attractive. I answered honestly. No I didn't really. But I found many other qualities that I wanted to have around me.
They ask for honesty. We give it. And that was the answer I always regretting telling the truth over. She never forgot that.
Learned my life lesson there.
Coming from a male perspective a tiny bit. There are certain things that we can never talk about. If a woman has a weight problem....off limits.....It is worse if they didn't have a weight issue when you meet and it develops later. If we don't agree on how the rear children that are not ours.....off limits.
etc etc etc.
I have no idea what you look like. Nor does it matter.
But let me ask this........how would he talk to you about this?
I think its just an off limits topic that he knows he has to keep to himself.
You have things you keep to yourself. You know you do. Does he have a right to that information?
As to how you came to learn them....that is open to interpretation. I was going to individual counseling. Part of that process required a 3 ring bound notebook of lots of intimate things I was being asked to write about in the context of what my therapist was requiring. It was like a diary of how I developed thoughts. There was much information in it that was totally private and never meant to be shared with anyone.
I would leave this in my car, or in my desk or etc etc around my home. Not under lock and key. Sometimes you have to write in the moment as things occur mentally.
My ex took it upon herself to decide to read it. All hell broke lose because of it. I was at fault for leaving unlocked and accessible. Even though it was never there for anyone to see. Her perspective was, if she had access, she had a right.
I won't argue the right or wrong of that thinking. It caused me to realize that I would l have to live under lock and key if I stayed with her. And even then, she'd still apply pressure with the "Oh you are keeping secrets from me and so I have trust issues with you" argument.
I was in a no win scenario no matter what.
And P.S. I went to Al-Anon and learned the Step about making amends.
My ex paid a lot of attention and time to making public apologies and amends to everyone......but me. I got a very side handed attempt that was something like. "All the pain I caused you.......I'm sorry". I responded with, "Do you even have any idea what those pains are?" That was the wrong answer. She blew up. Yet for everyone else, she took great lengths to talk discuss, learn and offer long heartfelt sounding apologies.
In the end it was all short lived. She never changed her lifestyle. She simply sets up tent in someone elses life and starts all over with new people.
When we first met, my ex asked me if I found her attractive. I answered honestly. No I didn't really. But I found many other qualities that I wanted to have around me.
They ask for honesty. We give it. And that was the answer I always regretting telling the truth over. She never forgot that.
Learned my life lesson there.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
reading someone's 4th step without their permission is a HUGE violation. that's like evesdropping on confession.
you said you were "curious" if you were on his 4th step and surprise, you were. so you got what you were looking for.
you now have a choice:
1. come clean to your husband, tell him you looked into his private journal and that you are upset about what he wrote about you.
OR
2. keep this to yourself and simmer with resentments.
you have violated his privacy and his trust. you have the opportunity to attempt to make things right. however, you should be prepared for fallout.
you said you were "curious" if you were on his 4th step and surprise, you were. so you got what you were looking for.
you now have a choice:
1. come clean to your husband, tell him you looked into his private journal and that you are upset about what he wrote about you.
OR
2. keep this to yourself and simmer with resentments.
you have violated his privacy and his trust. you have the opportunity to attempt to make things right. however, you should be prepared for fallout.
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Posts: 16,246
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,393
I find that 99.999% of alcoholics (the ones I know and read about) are super selfish and superficial, so this doesn't really surprise me. He probably would say the same thing if you looked like Christie Brinkley 30 years ago LOL. How long has he been working his program? If he is TRULY in recovery, hopefully he is also learning a few deeper emotions about people and relationships than the one he had with his bottle.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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I think that this thread could use some positive vibes....
***"stone soul"....is not referring to drugs in any way.....
I think that this thread could use some positive vibes....
***"stone soul"....is not referring to drugs in any way.....
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Okay people, posting to each other instead of to the original poster is called "hijacking".
Posts are to be only from personal experience, not just some random opinion. If you don't have specific experience that can help the original poster overcome the challenge she is facing then don't say anything. Go find some other thread where you can be a help instead of a hindrance.
If you are feeling "triggered" by a post then kindly don't make things worse by posting. Call your sponsor, get some fresh air outside. Come back tomorrow.
I have removed posts that do not follow the SR rules.
Mike
Moderator, SR
Posts are to be only from personal experience, not just some random opinion. If you don't have specific experience that can help the original poster overcome the challenge she is facing then don't say anything. Go find some other thread where you can be a help instead of a hindrance.
If you are feeling "triggered" by a post then kindly don't make things worse by posting. Call your sponsor, get some fresh air outside. Come back tomorrow.
I have removed posts that do not follow the SR rules.
Mike
Moderator, SR
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Jordan, sorry for your pain. For better or worse most women want to be thought of as attractive. And I'm pretty sure your husband does think of you that way, because he married you. I'm a superficial person myself and often wished my EXH was better looking, but I can promise you, I still have a deep affection for him even though he is my ex. Nothing to do with his looks.
Might be guessing here, but is his personal definition of attractive some idealised super model or pin up? We women compare ourselves to these fantasies that take hours to even get themselves out the door, so we can't be too hard on men for feeling the same.
Give yourself time to digest this and I hope it will give you some perspective, especially once the baby arrives. Your AH has done an awesome thing; giving up alcohol is never easy and he is working very hard and succeeding. He is laying down a secure foundation for you and your bub, and that takes courage and love.
Might be guessing here, but is his personal definition of attractive some idealised super model or pin up? We women compare ourselves to these fantasies that take hours to even get themselves out the door, so we can't be too hard on men for feeling the same.
Give yourself time to digest this and I hope it will give you some perspective, especially once the baby arrives. Your AH has done an awesome thing; giving up alcohol is never easy and he is working very hard and succeeding. He is laying down a secure foundation for you and your bub, and that takes courage and love.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 2
Thank you to those who have offered constructive feedback. As soon as he returned home I explained what I had done. I can not live with lies and feel that we should be open with each other to overcome our issues. As someone already explained these are his darkest thoughts and when we discussed it he said that he does not believe this anymore but of course I will never know.
Those who commented on me snooping, unfortunately, this is true I should not have looked. As I'm sure you are aware finding out a family member or loved one is an alcoholic when you had no clue and you married an outgoing adventurer for two months later to become a social recluse. Has an effect and you are correct this is something I need to work on. We currently live in a country with no alnon and I think the situation will be the same in our next country.
We have had many open conversations the past few days and hopefully, these continue and we grow stronger through our issues.
Thanks again for the support and information and i hope i can do the same for you in the future x
Those who commented on me snooping, unfortunately, this is true I should not have looked. As I'm sure you are aware finding out a family member or loved one is an alcoholic when you had no clue and you married an outgoing adventurer for two months later to become a social recluse. Has an effect and you are correct this is something I need to work on. We currently live in a country with no alnon and I think the situation will be the same in our next country.
We have had many open conversations the past few days and hopefully, these continue and we grow stronger through our issues.
Thanks again for the support and information and i hope i can do the same for you in the future x
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