Do Alcoholics KNOW they are lying deliberately?

Old 06-19-2017, 02:16 PM
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Do they actually know they are lying? believe that they can never get caught? or is it alcoholic delusion that makes them think they won't get caught?

It's a waste of energy to work out...who know or cares? Focus on yourself. your recovery, not what the alcoholic is doing or why.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ladybird579 View Post
Do they actually know they are lying? believe that they can never get caught? or is it alcoholic delusion that makes them think they won't get caught?

It's a waste of energy to work out...who know or cares? Focus on yourself. your recovery, not what the alcoholic is doing or why.
In general I agree, but on this particular issue, when I figured out that ex actually believed many of the strange things he said - he had not formed the conscious intent to lie - it helped me to see him as someone with mental health problems rather than just someone being a jerk, and that enabled me to feel a bit more compassion.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:53 PM
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Honeypig...I can imagine how hard it must be to lead a sort of double life, and avoid being caught....
My grandmother used to say..."Oh, what a web we do weave, when, first, we endeavor to deceive"......
Lol...I know what she is talking about, now that I am grown up.....
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:11 PM
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Sasha...I get what you are saying....I think it is helpful to know that they often lie to protect their disease and not just to deliberately set out to hurt you.....It helps not to personalize their actions, so much....
Maybe, it just makes it easier to deal with (less confusing), if one knows that they don't lie because they hate US......
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:18 PM
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Aside from what you all just mentioned I could tell my EX was lying when I asked her if there was someone else when she was acting really distant after I picked her up from treatment. Bear in mind we had been broken up, yet just days before she was telling me how much she couldn't wait to come back and spend time with me. Eventually found out she left to live with someone she was in treatment with. For some reason that hurt me. Not so much that she was with someone new but that she still had to hide the facts from me and still try to manipulate me.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Ladybird579 View Post

It's a waste of energy to work out...who know or cares? Focus on yourself. your recovery, not what the alcoholic is doing or why.
It can be helpful to try and understand the A's perspective, but I agree with Ladybird that this line of questioning mostly serves to "chase the dragon" of codie thinking, especially when there is no recovery program in place.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
Honeypig...I can imagine how hard it must be to lead a sort of double life, and avoid being caught....
My grandmother used to say..."Oh, what a web we do weave, when, first, we endeavor to deceive"......
Lol...I know what she is talking about, now that I am grown up.....
"A person that misleads others publicly will soon mislead himself privately."

Warren Buffet
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:14 PM
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I think my AH knows he's lying and goes great lengths to try and keep the truth from me, even if it means that he stays away and out of our (my and our child's) presence for days at a time in a few instances. And he's in denial to himself and thinks he's fooling everyone. It's so hurtful the the way he has lied to my face swearing up and down that he's telling the truth and doesn't Care if I believe him, twisting it to mean that I have trust issues and that I'll never believe him
No matter what he does. It's quite sick, in my opinion. I'm at the point that I am starting to not care why he lies. It's his addiction... yes I know, I get it. But I can only live with the lying and manipulating so
Long until I just don't give a crap about why. I just know he lies. And who knows what else he's lied about. He's lied about going to work when he stayed home to drink, he lies about where he goes and what he's doing. He's lied about money. He's lied to his family about me to pit them against me. Deliberately.
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:41 PM
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Lying intentionally, at least I did when active. I think active alcoholics don't care about consequences or what they do to others, getting the next drink is the focus.
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Old 06-20-2017, 05:34 AM
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Asked this because I can't lie AT ALL. I get caught so quickly so I avoid lying even if it's for greater good. I am just sooo surprised and shocked that ExABF came home and lied to my face ABOUT lying. He said he has only ever lied about his drinking and nothing else. turns out, he was lying about everything. One of the many girls that he has been talking to called his phone on the first day and I answered thinking it was his brother and she said they were planning to get married in Aug. I was shocked. ABF sat in my house and said that he will be back from rehab and we will be together forever. Not that I believed it wholeheartedly but just seems like something people will not be able to lie about so easily with a straight face. What was he planning to do once out? What was he planning to tell the other girl? WOW
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Old 06-20-2017, 05:45 AM
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Ituvia....it sounds like he was motivated by whatever felt good in that moment. It probably felt good when he implied marriage to her...and, it kept her on the hook....
It probably felt good when he promised "forever" to you, in that moment...because it kept you on the hook....
Immediate gratification....his gratification....
Just like a drink provides immediate gratification....

You do remember that alcohol messes up the frontal lobes...where logic. planning, and many other executive functions reside....it is sort of like a chemical lobotomy....
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:12 AM
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Yes I definitely knew I was lying. As
a child, I began to lie to get what I
first wasn't allowed to have so id
steal or take it, then lied to cover
my azz or to try to avoid physical,
verbal and emotional abuse at the
hand of a sick family member.

Of course someone was always there
to snitch, tattle on me and still caught
hell.

What was survival in the beginning became
habit and was carried on into my adult life.

Once I entered recovery and began to
incorporate tools of a recovery program
as my guideline and falling back in my
Catholic up bringing, teaching, education,
10 Commandments, I began to work to
repair many of those character defects
and learn how to make amends and
avoid repeating old habits.

It took me a long time with 26 yrs sobriety,
a new marriage after 25 yrs with continued
willingness, openmindedness that I finally
achieved HONESTY.

Once I became completely honest in
all my affairs, then and only then was
a door to open to a freedom I had never
experienced before.

Now that I have it, I cant imagine life
without it. That to me is a Gift in life
and recovery worth achieving.
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:46 AM
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The Addict's Dilemna

For those who are interested in how the alcoholic mind works.....this is an excellent site, in my opinion....
Not all the articles listed on the right hand side...
You might, also, appreciate the ones on "Addictions, lies, and relationships"
and
"Excuses alcoholics make".....

All of the papers written by Floyd P. Garrett, M.D. (above) were very enlightening, for me.....
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:46 AM
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I have to echo what anvil said earlier. When I was drinking, I almost always tried to lie about it, and maybe a few follow-up lies to cover my tracks to account for the before and after. Otherwise, I very rarely lie and I pride myself on that. It's the insanity that drives us to do anything - including compromise our morals - to protect the continuation of our habit. I remember being confronted by my ex about it when I had only had a few shots, and the first thing I felt was terror that if I admitted it, he would then demand to know where the bottle was so he could dump it, as he had done in the past. I used every faculty of my brain to protect that wicked bottle from being emptied. Sigh.

But I have to note that often people characterize alcoholics as by definition pathological liars, which is not always the case. I've known pathological liars, and they'll lie about anything and everything for no discernible reason from literally what they ate for breakfast to what their great aunt does for a living. I knew I was lying, because if someone believed me (or pretended to), I felt a giant sigh of relief.

It's part of the insanity of it. Most alcoholics I know are exhausted having to remember various lies they told and feel tremendous shame about the consequences of these lies.
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:50 AM
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I don't know, Vigilancenow cos my ex had no reason to come back and say all these things to me while asking flirting with the other girl and leading her on. She is an american so he had a good opportunity to get married and go to the US.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:02 AM
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Sure. They know they are lying. They are willing to do whatever it takes to protect their addiction. It becomes first.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:02 AM
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But it wasn't even about the drinking. It had nothing to do with it, really.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Ituvia View Post
I am confused about this one. Do they actually know they are lying? believe that they can never get caught? or is it alcoholic delusion that makes them think they won't get caught?
depends at what stage of alcoholism i was at.

at any stage,i didnt think id never get caught, but there came a time i didnt care if i did or not.

there were also times i told lies just out of spite- trying to hurt someone.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:08 AM
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Some people are also just liars.

Originally Posted by Ituvia View Post
But it wasn't even about the drinking. It had nothing to do with it, really.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:13 AM
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^^^ That makes more sense. Pathological lying I think.
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