thousandwords53

Yes, that is exactly what he expects of me. Do I expect or get that in return?...um no. Not nearly. I do not even get true, unsolicited support in large events/issues in my life..let alone daily comfort and attention. Only when it suits him do I get showered with affection and praise, only when he will get kudos out of it that is.

Hopeful: " It does not sound to me like he is embracing recovery at all. More like just embracing the hopes that you will stay with him, so he is trying to be his best, which honestly does not sound so great.

You deserve a partner. What he is describing by way of you did not keep him in check...that's what moms do. Last time I checked he is not your child.

I think you are here b/c in your gut you know it's not right. I say stick with working on YOU, and eventually you will be strong enough to do the right thing."

Yes, I can see clear as day that he is doing this treatment program to get in my good graces. There is not a true, deep inner reflection happening. He shares with me everyone else's crazy backstory from group sessions, like in awe at these people...he's looking at others and not himself. He even mentioned when asked the craziest thing he has done while drinking- what he came up with was some dare-devil acts on his ATV from almost 10 years ago...It did not even come to his mind the road rage incident from this past December with the entire family in the car. Terrible. Anyways. I know what I need to do. It will happen, it is happening, just not the straight path I envisioned.

LexieCat

In what way would serving him be "out of the blue"? You've told him to move out, he's been (supposedly) trying to find a place to live.

You can have regular, cordial contact with someone you are divorcing. You don't have to put on a display of loathing or be quivering in fear to divorce someone. By your own terms, you do better when he's not around and it is dragging you down to live with him. Those are great reasons to split up.

Leaving someone isn't an "unsupportive" thing to do. He doesn't NEED your support to get sober. And, to all appearances, he has no DESIRE to be sober--he's placating you in the hopes that you won't kick him out. Sooner or later, it's going to blow. He's going to drink and get really nasty and vicious, you'll tell him that's it, your done, and he will again go back to rehab or make recovery noises and you will give him another chance. Because, after all, he's making an "effort."

I'm not saying that scenario WILL happen, but historically, isn't that what HAS happened?

thousandwords53

Yes, I can still serve him with disso/sep papers...I am just holding off on a more assertive way of removing him from the home with orders in one fell swoop. I don't want to escalate it if it can happen amicably, so far it has been, but nothing has really happened so I am waiting. I didn't really explain that well. I think he is looking into apartments tonight but we shall see I guess.

LexieCat

Can you maybe make a boundary for yourself? That if things continue as they have for, say, another month, you will just DO it? You don't have to say anything to him about your internal deadline, you can just keep reinforcing your message that he needs to find somewhere else to live--soon. There is no earthly reason he couldn't make some kind of arrangements in that amount of time--IF he really was willing to honor your wishes.

thousandwords53

But, with that being said, the longer I do the nicey-nicey game, the more his heels will dig in that if he is doing XYZ this whole thing will slide...so I need to make expectations very clear. and be safe about it.

thousandwords53

See yes, that's the thing. He is of the camp that he doesn't want this to happen so it won't ...not how it works buddy. People get divorced all the time when only one person wants to end the relationship. It's not always a mutual decision. Getting a divorce or separation is against his reality of what his life will be, but hey I kinda don't give a rats a$$ any more.

AnvilheadII

yup - you gave him the "move out" talk on Feb 2nd.

and remember, it's like up until that day you guys had a really great, healthy, life affirming relationship. this isn't out of the blue, no matter how much shock he feigns.

thousandwords53

Very true, but his status quo was uninterrupted, so for him this is a news flash. And he conveniently only remembers good moments. Being in a drunken fog will do that I suppose... I know the reality of our life and I need to hold onto that truth to stay strong and follow through.

AnvilheadII

i meant to say....it's NOT like......

trust me, he still knows. he has selective memory....but that doesn't mean he really ONLY remembers the good stuff. he only ADMITS to remembering the good stuff. big difference.

don't molly coddle him. he's not 12. you aren't asking for a vital organ. you are telling him he needs to relocate. stick to the facts of the matter. don't go all mushy!

dandylion

Thousandwords....have you ever done the tried and true exercise of writing the top worst things that have led you to this point? Carry it with you at all times, and read it every time you feel yourself weaken....
You may have to read it a dozen times a day......but, it works....

I wonder if you are waiting for him to do something "bad" for you to leave?
Because something "bad" give you a tangible, social permission....and, therefore you will not be billed as the "bad guy".....
Or, maybe, it is stumping you because you don't know what words to say that will convince him and others that you have the right to exit the relationship?
For example...I have heard lots of people say things like..."If he went back to drinking...I could leave him"....or..."If he hit me< I would leave him".....or.."I wish he would cheat on me...cause I would h ave a good reason to ask him to leave"....

SoloMio

Sometimes it helps to see how other people break up in a sane way. The other night I watched "Becoming Warren Buffett." He and his wife raised his kids and had a lovely, typical Brady Bunch life in Omaha.

Then, once the kids were older, his wife decided she needed a life of her own. She still loved Warren, but she had to fulfill herself in a way that didn't include being Warren's SO, living in Nebraska. So she moved to San Francisco (ironically, I was in a hotel in SF at that moment).

Of course he was a relatively healthy guy, so they were able to maintain a friendly relationship, and she asked her friend to look in on him because she knew it would be hard for him at first.

But he survived, she survived, they all survived. And she simply made her own life happen. No apologies. That was inspirational to me.

LexieCat

I just LOVE Uncle Warren. Not that I'd necessarily want to be married to him.

Yeah, those stories (similar to mine) are inspirational. But they only work when you have two reasonable people, both playing with a full deck. With an abusive alcoholic, or one who is out to lunch for the count, you can't wait for the other person to step up and do the right thing. Because they can't or won't. And it really doesn't matter which it is--it causes the same level of harm.

thousandwords53

Yes. That is a great example of mutual respect and understanding. Not all relationships have that...mine doesn't.

SoloMio

Exactly.. neither does mine. I guess my point was, and the reason this example resonated with me, is that I tend to get caught up in feeling so guilty and enmeshed in his problems that simply leaving seems insurmountable.

SparkleKitty said something in another thread: "It's enough that you don't want to live this way." Honestly--I feel I just need to wake up to that mantra every day. Otherwise, I'm filled with thoughts of "What if I leave and he gets worse? What if I leave and he dies?" "What if I leave and it impinges on my ability to retire?" "What if I leave behind all the memories woven into this house?" "

This example also reminds me of my MIL. She was a widow, and she had her mother and her brother living with her. Her brother had been sober for many years, but one day relapsed under her roof.

So right after he relapsed I told her about AlAnon and suggested books, etc. She didn't go to AlAnon, but instead the very next day she kicked him out, changed the locks on her doors and her phone number. Boom. Done. No apologies. They both lived well into their 80s.

NewRomanMan

In the end it's a choice on his part. I came to the realization when my ex divorced me that I had two choices: I could be bitter and resentful and mean and make her life miserable (thereby my kids too), or I could man up and be an honorable ex husband by admitting that I had no one to blame but me and doing my best to show by my actions that I'm on her side and the side of my kids. That's a choice I make every day, but it's a lot of work . The alcoholic in me resists that every day. But that's what real recovery can make possible. I hope someday your AH can find that kind of recovery.

thousandwords53

Thank you NRM,

This is what I hope for.

dandylion

thousandwords.....may I gently point out that NewRomanMan's wife probably wished for the same thing.....but, she stopped waiting for it.
Notice, also, that he, evidently, came to that after his wife divorced him.......

thousandwords53

So we had another "talk" " last night. He asked me what I thought of him taking his classes and I told him it's great and asked if he was learning from them. He said he wants to finish the program and doesn't agree with everything they say, some of it is old fashioned but he is still learning from it. He also said he put a call into a marriage counselor to make an appointment for us.

Somehow it came back around to me reiterating that I wanted to still live apart. He can't wrap his head around that idea because how are we supposed to fix us when we are apart (I've shared he said that last time I realize) how he doesn't have anywhere to go and financially we can't afford two households (I really don't believe that) anyway he suggested I can live with my parents. (I guess I could, the kids would have a room too but I DONT WANT TO is that enough reason alone?) I have a hard time telling if I am being selfish and one track minded. I told him I ultimately wanted a divorce but I settled for pitching a legal separation because he is actually taking this seriously this time and I don't want to jump the gun. I think he was taken aback by that a little. He's worried about what my family is saying and I told him I've kept this between myself mostly. He also texted me from bed a few hours later AGAIN asking if there was someone else. Grrr. I feel like I am in some sort of limbo and I know I'm keeping myself there I just don't have clarity on my next steps. Had to vent/share

hopeful4

You do have clarity, you are simply fighting yourself.

You don't need to leave the house and uproot your children. You did not cause the chaos.

I did many things to try and keep things nicey nicey with my X, guess what, in the end, he ended up bitter and is still bitter to this day. It just did not work. In trying to be nice, I screwed myself out of about $100k and continue to financially support my kids because I settled for trying to be nice instead of taking care of my children's future.

I am only saying this because he exhibits signs of wanting to do all the right things, but when you stick to your own wants and needs he may not be so nice about it anymore.

Tight hugs.

Ariesagain

You do what YOU want and what's best for your kids. The end.

I believe that when a relationship has deteriorated to the point where everything is a negotiation, it's no longer a relationship. Living with another person requires a lot of good will and kindness on both sides that can't be mandated or quantified. My ex was very much a balance sheet guy...everything he did "for me" required a "payment" from me. I can't believe I ever lived that way.

It's your life and only you can decide, but it sounds like this is broken beyond fixing.