Dreaming005

Hello, First time poster here. My AH is upstairs asleep, sleeping off a 0.3 4 BAC which started with him drinking this morning. I came home from dance class with my 2 girls, ages 4 & 6, and picked up AH to go to a museum together. He got in the car and I could instantly smell that he'd been drinking - he denied - I let it go because he wasn't acting drunk & I thought it might have just been on his coat. We do museum, go to lunch, and get home- all' swell.

AH is supposed to take 4 y.o. To a birthday party so I listened to my gut & asked him to take a breathalyzer. He flubbed it several times then finally admitted he'd been drinking. So I take 4 yo and leave him home with 6 yo. Get home and he now looks drunk. Make him take breathalyzer and it reads 0.34!!! He insists he hadn't drank since the morning - regardless... as times passes he's acting more & more intoxicated & final just went to bed.

Question 1: is it possible for someone to get drunker as the day goes on, without drinking? He said he drank a bunch of nips of vodka before 10am. He blew the 0.34 at 1:00. By 4:30 he Was asleep.

He's been trying to get sober since Feb '16. Got 85 days, then relapsed, 30 days, then every 2 weeks, then Went to inpatient rehab in November after a bender which ended with me filing a missing person report.... Came home mid-December. Made it a week home before he started drinking again. Fessed up, hit reset. 2 weeks later, another relapse. Reset. Now today (2 weeks later again!!)

I've been reading an Al-Anon book (the daily thoughts one), read lots online, went to a few meetings but found them unbelievably depressing. No ones seems to recover, lots of separation/ divorce/ death.... Maybe I'm still being naive, but I still have hope he'll manage this & we'll be able to move forward together.

I get the detach with love sentiment- it's helped my sanity a lot. Also, understanding I can't control or cure him BUT there's a lot in Alanon that seems so outdated and like a 1950s mindset. Keep your looks up, smile, don't argue with the AH, and he'll notice & want to change his ways - what???

Reality is we have young kids, I work a full-time, pretty demanding job. He doesn't work- he got laid off 2.5 years go, has anxiety, depression... his job for now is supposed to be taking care of the house, cooking, groceries, errands.

Question 2: how am I supposed to not give him $, when he's supposed to do the errands inc grocery shop? I have to take all of that on too? Or else I'm enabling him?? He already doesn't pick the girls up from after-school care anymore, since I don't trust him to drive them at that time. That's an issue with my job as I have to miss meetings sometimes. I need to keep the girls safe so this is non-negotiable, but if I take on the other stuff too, my burden is doubled & isn't that enabling him?

Question 3: anyone experience this cyclical relapse behavior? Any suggestion on what to do/ not do? He's not physically or verbally abusive. He's apologetic and guilt ridden when sober.... I feel like he wants soberity, but maybe not enough. It's exhausting. I go on with my life, do outings with the girls, but when he drinks he just sleeps & im stuck taking care of everything, again.

I struggle with being patient and understanding vs setting boundaries and not enabling. Any thoughts?

Sorry for the ramble!

Nata1980

Hello and welcome to the forum!

The answer your questions

Question 1. Not likely. Chances are he he is drinking something throughout the day, which is really beside the point since the end result is him being drunk. Does not matter how he got there

Question 2. Does he steal money leaving you short? If he wants to get drunk - he will get drunk, whether he has the money or not. My XAH blatantly pilfered cash and left me short - so I started buying most things on my own.

Question 3. There is nothing you can do or not do to influence his drinking. He picks up a drink - it's his choice. The Al-anon advice is not how to appease an alcoholic, it is for you.

Trust your gut. If you think something is off - it probably is. Take care of yourself and your children, he may or may not stop - and your happiness does not have to depend on it.

FeelingGreat

Sorry for the reason you've come here Dreaming. From what you say I think relapse is the wrong word. You have to stop drinking to relapse and yes, he is taking top-up nips during the day. Of course he's lying - have a look at the 'Quackers' thread to see many similar examples, even in the face of clear evidence to the contrary.

He drank when he was left alone with your 6 year old. You've had to stop him picking up the kids because he's incapable of controlling himself. I get it - I'm a sober A myself, but it's adding to your burdens, not helping.

At the moment he only wants to stop drinking in theory, but not enough to go to AA, or work some sort of program. Worse, he denies drinking when he's about to drive his daughter. If you hadn't had the breathalyser would he have driven regardless? Yes, because protecting his drinking is his first priority.

Q1. He drank during the day - you just didn't see him.
Q2. If he's going to spend the money on drink, then you probably will have to buy the groceries etc. Think about ordering online and getting it delivered.
Q3. He's not relapsing because he's not stopped drinking. Expect it to be continuous from now on.

I know you're hanging on to hope now, but it doesn't seem he's motivated at all. Many people only get it after the marriage has broken up. Right now he has no work, a comfortable home, almost nothing to do. It's not helping his self-esteem or depression, and it's providing zero incentive to stop drinking.

Sorry this is not a hopeful answer, but you may have to take control of a lot more family tasks, and assume he's not going to be much use until he starts taking recovery seriously. You may be able to organise help for yourself with child-minding and and house cleaning. Perhaps he could get a job, anything, to help pay for it.

schnappi99

The hope I got in Alanon wasn't that my wife would stop drinking but that I could start feeling better. I spent so many years more or less frustrated, annoyance, anger, judgement were frequent companions, and in the end 3 years ago the self-righteous vindication of my suspicions was just too much. I sure couldn't think my way out of all that having tried many times.. so the lesson I got is that I could feel better whether she stopped drinking or not- and I have found that to be true.

She has spent most of the last 10 years emotionally walled off and isolated from family life with our daughter and I, still more or less the case for the last 3 since she's been dry. My recovery in that time amounts to learning how to let her be the way she's going to be and not increase conflict. Up until recently I've been responsible for all the bills, still am doing the groceries, all kid logistics & laundry.

So my day-to-day attitude is I can't rely on her to do much or to get involved... she is really tied up inside her own head, which I understand having been there for many years myself. The emotional & physical isolation is hard to bear sometimes- having lots of recovery friends helps. I can talk freely to them & vise versa so the isolation is eased.

My alanon sponsor is a double-winner, he often talks about how sincere and apologetic an alcoholic can be when they're in the middle of a "jackpot". But they will drink anyway.

ChloeRose63

There is a hidden stash of booze in the house somewhere or you have booze out in the open where he is 'nipping' into. He is not relapsing. He is an alcoholic.
If you don't drink (I hope not) get all the alcohol out of the house. It is time to stop dreaming and start taking action for yourself and your children's well being.
You are not in a good situation unless he sees what damage he is doing with his drinking...the lies, the false, promises, the denial is distructive. You need to have a plan and the right tools to make yourself powerful against his addiction. Seek support.

dandylion

schnappi.....the usual advice is to go to 6 different alanon meetings....because the tone can be different in each of them.....
Alanon is for you to figure out how to feel better about yourself...not to get the alcoholic to stop drinking.....(because you can't control the alcoholic...you can only control yourself ).....
There are, also, other groups that can be helpful for you, also.....
I don't hear anything about what he is doing to get sober.....is he going to AA meetings every day...does he have a sponsor? Has he seen a doctor or counselor?.....Has he joined any o nline groups for alcoholics?

I hope that you have been reading the "stickies"...the articles listed above the regular threads on the main page....there is a bootcamp of information alcoholism and co-dependency in those many, many articles.....

Keep posting, here...and reading the thousands...thousands...of other real life stories of others who have walked in your shoes....
(Celebrate Recovery, Adult Children of Alcoholics, Co-dependents Anonymous, are some of the other groups that you might find support in)

Dreaming005

I did get rid of all the alcohol last February. Hidden stash- probably. He pours it into seltzer or water bottles which I've found everywhere.

Take action- I don't know what to do at this point. I kicked him out in November & he left with a tent. Told me he was camping in a nearby park. 3 days later I got worried after a tearful phone call & went looking for him. Called the police when I couldn't find him in the park. They pinged his phone & discovered he hadn't been in the park at all. Used an extra key to get into his patent's apt, stole booze, and slept in the complex's basement. Long story short, he ended up going to inpatient the next day.

I still love him very much. It's 20 degrees outside. I need a plan on what to do- where to send him. If I just kick him out he won't call anyone & then I'm guilt ridden. I know I should, but there it is.

dandylion

RETRACTION...............
Schnappi.....I am sorry...I typed the wrong name!!.....the above post, by me, is meant for Dreaming!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dreaming005

He goes to an IOP program. Was 9-3, now 9-12. It's for co-occurring issues, but seems to me to be focused more on mental issues than the alcoholism. Has gone to AA, but not regular. Went to 3 last week, then none this week. When he got his 80+ days of sobriety he was going every single day, and had a sponsor, but they had a falling out.

So- he's doing something to say he's doing something, but it's not enough nor the right place. So frustrating!!!

dandylion

Dreaming.....I am glad to hear that he has heard of AA and has some familiarity with it.....(some alcoholics refuse to darken the door of AA...lol....)...

It is true, that many alcoholics and addicts have co-occurring issues...so, I actually do see an enormous value in dealing with those "other" issues while having a program for sobriety (AA), also.....
So...I heartily agree with you that the sobriety issue doesn't need to "slide"....
Alcoholism (and addictions) fit together with mental issues like hand and glove...BOTH need to be treated.....

I will share, with you, an observation that I have made for a long time---It is this:
Alcoholics will do anything...anything...to keep others off their backs about totally giving up the alcohol forever (it lliterally feels like being a fish without water, for them). They will go to anything that doesn't have the word "alcohol" as the main word. In the recesses of their minds...there is the idea that they can, somehow, still manage to drink, sometimes....and keep their loved ones "satisfied" that they are doing something....
The problem is that addressing the other issues is so vitally important---but, it won't work unless the drinking stops, also....
Here is the thing---their manipulation, to avoid alcoholism treatment...straight on...works, for them....The loved one...often, being so ignorant of th e true nature of alcoholism, and on their last nerve....are thrilled that the alcoholic is willing to do something...anything...that they believe just seeing a "counselor" of some kind or mental health program is "enough".....which it is not....
Thus, the alcoholic can go to the other therapy...and drink, here and there...while the loved one is pulling their hair out...like you are, right now...lol...

Actually, he is lucky that the kids are in school and he has the daytime hours to do a lot of work on his problems....a lot of people get sober while working full time jobs and a family....

Dreaming...I am hearing "excuses"....that he fell out with his sponsor is an excuse...he can get a new sponsor and another AA group....
In AA there is a saying---"It works if you work it"....AA and the steps do work for those who are willing to do the work. It is not that AA doesn't work--it is that the Alcoholic isn't working.....
(I am telling you this, so that you know....)

I hope that this is of some help to you.....

LexieCat

Hi, and welcome!

As the others said, he isn't "relapsing"--he's drinking. Nothing, at this point, is stopping the progression.

I know it feels like you SHOULD be able to count on him to do a few things, but trust me, you can't. It would be far less burdensome to be on your own with the kids than having this big kid who is more work than the rest put together.

As you have already seen, alcoholics are very resourceful. He'll figure out some way to keep warm. And when he's sick enough of his lifestyle, maybe he'll decide to take all of this seriously. Because right now he's not. And apart from the physical danger his drinking presents when he's caring for the kids, this is terrible for them. I'd suggest letting the school counselor know what's going on at home--the counselor might be able to work with them in an age-appropriate way.

Dreaming005

This completely resonates. He thinks he can still drink & manage it. So ridiculous. He doesn't want a beer- he goes for Vodka & gets wasted so that he sleeps for 2 days. It's never just a little slip.

And he's definitely going excuses about AA. I just told him he's going every day or he's going to get a a sober house. I don't think that will work, with me mandating attendance, but I don't know what else to do. Maybe just send him to a sober house and let him figure out his life is the answer.... However, I met with his counselor from inpatient and he told me home was better & he'd be more likely to relapse in a sober house...

LexieCat

"More likely to relapse"?? He's in full-blown relapse now, with no signs of stopping.

And unless you are having him bring home a signed attendance sheet or are going with him to the meetings (neither of which I'd recommend), you have only his word that he's going. How reliable is that?

He's not going to be accepted at any "sober house" unless he's been sober--they generally take people straight out of rehab. They aren't places to GET someone sober--they don't do detox and they aren't rehabs. They are post-rehab places to reinforce the skills needed to live sober.

I'd suggest you put your energy into making a plan to live without him--at least for a while. You are in an unworkable situation right now. Your kids aren't safe and you are at the end of your rope.

Dreaming005

Makes sense. Nothing to disagree with.

So, he needs detox now? Try for inpatient again? Or just send him to a shelter?

LexieCat

He NEEDS detox before any recovery is possible, but you can't force him if he's not interested. And I wouldn't make any "deals" if I were you--like "you can come home once you've detoxed and get sober in AA." That's what you've BEEN doing, and it isn't working for you, is it?

I think if I were you, I'd want to see a good long stretch of sobriety before letting him come back. Rehab followed by sober living arrangements. The point is that he can't indulge his addiction in YOUR home, and disrupt the lives of YOU and YOUR kids any longer.

Your decision, but I think that's what I would do. Then step back and let him decide what he's going to do. But don't give him too long to think about it. Trust me, he will tug at your heartstrings and give you a zillion excuses and promises. The promises are great, but he's going to have to start fulfilling them somewhere OTHER than under your roof.

dandylion

Dreaming.....this is not a criticism of you...but, take a look at the "tone" of what you are saying---"SEND him here" or.."SEND him there" ..or..."SEND him somewhere else".....LOL...it sounds like a parent who is deciding where to send a child who is under 18yrs. old, and still under parental authority....
Now, I get it , that you don't mean it that way....that you are trying to find a way to get him to stop drinking that works for everyone...best for him...best for you and the kids....
The problem is this as I see it: You are talking about boundaries...right? Well, boundaries are to p rotect your and the kids welfare. They are not "rules" or laws that you make for him to follow.....because, rules for him (written by you) don't work! Because, they are decisions that are not made by him. He will not commit to anything that he has not decided for himself. He might go along, for a little while to get you off his back...but it will fail in th end, because his heart is not in it....your heart might be in it....but, that is not the same thing....

Here is how it, basically, works---You make your decisions (boundaries) on your side of the street. It is, then, up to him to make his own decisions about what he is going to do..on HIS side of the street. You are in charge of your side of the street...and, he is in charge of his side of the street.....

Now, to be fair...I don't have any idea of what background his outpatient counselor has...how much is alcoholism and how much is primarily mental issues....but, it doesn't matter, really....He still needs to get sober....if he really wants real recovery in his life....
Remember this---HE is the counselor's main concern...not you and the kids! That is the way it always is.

Could you make the boundary..."I will not live with active alcoholism in the same house as me and the kids".....What he does with that is up to him and on his side of the street.....(you don't have to be mean about it..."say what you mean/and mean what you say...don't say it mean"........

Any commitment to sobriety will, ultimately, have to come from him.....
Meanwhile, you are responsible for the decisions that affect you...

Dreaming005

I get it- I can't make him do anything, and shouldn't. The way I've been writin t words.... But if I don't tell him to do something, he'd be happy to sleep all day and/ or lie about drinking. I've had the police here in the past and they've told me I can't kick him out against his will. So me creating boundaries means I have to give him something to DO. I sure can say I won't live with active drinking, and have, but that obviously isn't happening.

I think I understand all this theoretically, but not HOW to actually do something. I'm not willing to leave the house. I guess I'm at asking him to consider detox again then.

Thank you all for the responses!!!

biminiblue

File for legal separation. It's pretty likely you and the kids will be allowed to remain in the house and he will have to go elsewhere.

All the nicey-nicey has to stop at some point.

"Asking him to consider detox," (?) There needs to be some protection for the small children: they cannot protect themselves. Him being allowed to stay at home drunk with small children is a recipe for tragedy. Asking him hasn't worked and it won't work now. His brain is fried, he cannot make good decisions. It's going to get worse if he doesn't get away from the alcohol and he's not going to do that while living with you, so it's on you to force the issue. Not a perfect scenario, but it is the cards you have been dealt.

Many hugs. You can do this. You're doing it all already, and having him out of the house is going to make your daily life much more peaceful and productive - and the kids will be safe. They HAVE to be your first priority.

ladyscribbler

Why would he want to change anything about this arrangement? It's working for him 100%. He gets to drink in comfort while you take care of all the adult responsibilities, childcare, financially supporting the family and everything else that goes along with being a grownup. All he has to do is go to a counseling session or a couple of AA meetings and promise to change every so often to keep you off his back and he gets to keep living his cushy life, bottle in hand.

I've learned a lot in Al Anon. One of the biggest lessons for me is that if I'm waiting for someone else to change so that I can have the life I want, then I will probably not ever have the life I want. I didn't do obviously enabling behaviors like buying him booze, but everything I did to keep our family running day to day made it really easy and comfortable for him to keep drinking.

I too was very concerned about what would happen to my ex when the kids and I left. I believed that he would literally die. He turned out to be much more resourceful than I would have ever given him credit for and wasted no time rounding up new enablers. Once he wore out his parents, he got married to a woman who had just enabled her first alcoholic husband to death. This was within a year of me leaving and he's constructed his entire life around being able to keep drinking in peace and comfort while someone else does all the icky grownup stuff for him.

I do have to tip my hat to your AH. That moving out with the tent thing was some pretty epic manipulation. Even my ex never took it that far, and he pulled some doozies. Sorry you and your daughters are dealing with this mess. I hope you are able to find some peace and clarity.

dandylion

Dreaming...I understand what you are saying.....y our dilemma..
I am not saying to say nothing to him!! I am suggesting to make your decisions and lay it out on the table for him to see. Put all the cards on the table....
I am not a lawyer. I do know that you can't just evict him from his own home..
But, I do understand that there are ways to legally stay in the house with the kids...with him required to vacate the house, by legal means through a divorce lawyer.....
There is a website....www.WomansDivorce.com.....that is very educational about all areas of divorce. It is listed by state, and it has links to other resources, as well. It won't take the place of your own lawyer...which you need...but, it will help you understand a lot and will prepare you with what questions to ask a lawyer.....

(By the way...you don't have to tell him what to DO...he has a brain in his head...he can think. He has a counselor in the outpatient program who can help him with what to "do", also. He is an adult...and, trying to be his "mother" will break you back...break...your...back......