Meassi

Hello

I am back.
Short recap:
Meet my A in 2012 where he drank 3 bottles of wine a day. Was never abusive, but had a lot of gaslighting and denial going on, which can in some ways be as hard to cope with.
We've come a long way. Been on and off, lived together and seperately, he's been with a million therapists and treatments, but insists that he is different.
Today he drink one bottle of wine every 2 weeks and takes the occasional bender - just had 5 days where he drank 10 bottles in all, including my favorite sherry that I got for my birthday.
I was on vacation and it's been like that for some time - he only drinks when I am not home.
Progress. Yes. Well done.

I wouldn't even bother with him being drunk while I was away, if it wasn't for the fact that his daughter had promised to throw him a birthdaydinner at her place and he simply never showed up. She hailed me on messenger and was worried - he's been admitted to the hospital twice before for close encounters with traffic during a bender.
She wanted to know if I had talked to him. Normally I would shrug and say "Not my problem" - I have become good at that, but I fell into the codependent trap once more and started finding someone who could go and check if he was ok.
He was off course. Pissdrunk, but fine.

He is off his bender and I am home from my vacation. We talk.
And here's where my problem arises.

His daughter sets her boundaries and doesn't want to talk to him for a while. Good for her.
I can't come home and be in love with this guy. My body - traumatised through childhood with a narcissistic father and an alcoholic mother - has to spend a few days feeling safe again. I need distance and to take care of me.

He says that he does not feel sufficiently acknowledged for his progress.

He says "It was just one time" and "Come on, it's really not that bad" and "You weren't even here" and "Why are you taking it out on me when it was my daughter I let down?!"

I fall for it. I fall for the gaslighting he does. He is diminishing the problems he is causing for his relatives. I feel guilty for not "just shaking it off".

I need some input from you - mirroring - to stop myself from overstepping my own boundaries right now. And I need you thoughts and reflections on my story to get it into meta perspective.

Thank you so much for your words, be they encouraging or the opposite <3

TobeC

Comparing, minimizing, triangulating and manipulating are all tools an addict uses to hang on to his active using. When you realize that everything that he says and does is to protect his ability to keep drinking, you'll be one step closer to realizing how truly sick he is. Set boundaries and stick to them. He crosses them...have consequences but be prepared to do what you have to do for your mental health.

Meassi

TobeC - do you believe that an A can recover and progress to the point where he won't use comparing, minimizing, triangulating and manipulating to protect his own drinking?
- and thanks for replying

TobeC

I do. And when he realizes life on the other side is so much better than the amount of time and effort it takes to keep his addiction going, the person you know now almost disappears and a new better version arrives. It's a journey though. It doesn't happen over night. Once an alcoholic quits finding the appropriate coping tools to deal with life is critical. I use a combination of individual mindfulness based therapy and 12 steps. His recovery has to be his and for him. I've found that people in recovery can be the most humble, lovely people in the world. Beautiful souls, really. It takes a ton of work and I'm still scratching the surface of mine. I'd be happy to talk to your guy, if I can help in any way.

Ariesagain

You already know what's happening...trust your instincts, you're a smart person.

As for hanging in there...personally, I believe there is a tipping point with any addiction where the need takes over the person and it is only by a supreme act of will on the part of the addict that can bring him/her back. And nothing anyone else says or does is going to make a bit of difference.

You know the history with this man better than anyone...is he at that point?

What may be more pertinent...are you at that point? It's extremely hard to continue to be married to someone you can't trust and can't respect. It's really up to you whether you want to continue this life, because there aren't any indications from your post that he plans to change anything.

Tough situation..sending you a hug.

P.S. Every active alcoholic believes they are special and have unique and vital reasons why they are justified in their drinking. It's a hallmark of the condition. Recovery starts when we recognize that it's just the addiction lying to us and we're just another bozo seeking a buzz, just like all of the others.

TobeC

You know what yoir reality is. Dont question it. He doesn't seem to know what his reality is. Addicts can be like tornados and can suck the life out of any situation. Do they do it with malice or bad intent? No. But, sometimes it takes very little for them to wake up and others take an epic fall. In both cases, the addict crawls out of a hole. Some deeper than others but a hole none the less. Be strong for you. Do what you have to do but with love. Love the person. Hate the disease. Find help, like this place. If you can get a person in recovery to talk to him, great. It may help to shake him by the shoulders to wake up.

Meassi

Ariesagain:
Is he at that point?
EVERY time he has been on a binge, he states that he can now see how stupid it is and that he doesn't need it anymore.

Regarding alcohol, I see progression - from 3 bottles a day to a binge a month or rarer.

Biggest problem IS the lies, the denial, the promises that are not kept, the endless row of therapists who are all in some way or another not quite the right one.

Now he wants to take NALTREXON and I hope it takes his crawing - but he still has the emotional problems of denial etc.

I am no better - I have been at my edge a few times and thought "This is it" - walked out the door, only to realize that no man has the qualities of this guy sober. Others see it too. I hear that this is common and that when the A stops drinking completely, some of the good sides will fade because they are induced by guilt. =/

I am no closer to less confusion.

It's like I am backing out the door and then not. Tiresome and exhausting.

Meassi

That's part of an oooold pattern - my parents lying and telling me that what I saw was not real. No, mum is not drunk, just tired. No, dad can't help beating up his girlfriend - she is hysterical!

Most of the time I have become really good at hanging on to my reality, but when I go into codependency, everything fails.

Thanks for being there and generously offering to talk to him. He has to seek it though. Not me

PhoenixJ

Meassi- thankyou for your brave share. The following reflection is about me. Alcoholics who are actively drinking trick themselves as being the centre of the entire universe- and then become very good at acting normal- a 'high functioning alcoholic' (ha!). Every action for me revolved around the drinking of alcohol while appearing normal. I would gauge my success in being normal by the reactions of others. Not by my thoughts or feelings on the secretive behaviour, lies, cheating, stealing and gas-lighting. I would sincerely (I talked myself into believing) come across as trying to get better- but the fact remained I did keep drinking and I did not get better. If my ex (just) tolerated my drinking or offered me empathy for getting fired, a death- whatever that in my mind gave me permission to keep on drinking. Like a creeping cancer. But if nothing changed - everything to me was tickety boo- until the damage to my wife and sons was irreversible. Under extreme circumstances- they have cut me off. I accept this- leave them be and agreed to everything the ex asked for. Least I could do.
The point being action and reliable sobriety with proof is what will count, I think. ' It was only this once, I was fired- pity me, oh yes but it was because, you do not understand how much pressure I am under...etc, yarda, blahblahblah.'
I only thought of myself. A question for you- what does your heart truly say to you? What do you want? Are you thinking of your mental well-being? I am living proof that time does not always heal all wounds. Some run too deep.
Whatever you decide to do- I offer you my prayers, support and thoughts across the waves. PJ

Meassi

Thank you PhoenixJ for asking these questions.

I just had a client (I am a psychotherapist. Yeah, you are allowed to laugh =P ) who is deeply in love with a narcissistic person. And I offered her my understanding of her situation, carried her shame with her, supported her in feeling what it does to her and mirrored her longing and own denial about what is happening.

I can see myself sitting in the couch reflecting on my behaviour in exactly the same way. I can hear myself making excuses - trying to defend myself, explain how things ARE getting better.
And I can - at the same time - hear that little voice in the back of my head going: "And he's the best of the bunch. Everybody says so and talks about how calm you have become with him. Best sex, best fun, best conversations, same dreams, same ambitions. You know it doesn't get any better than this!"
He just went out of his way to give me the perfect birthday (after having let me totally and utterly down the two former years.) I have become thankful for his efforts.
*Facepalm*
And still I stay.

I have come a long way. I do a lot for me that I didn't do before. I have great friends. No secrets about him when I'm with them. I travel. I educate, live and breathe. And still, he can take all that away from me in a puff. That is my responsibility.

What do I want? I want to live a life full of travels and funny people around the world. The best food, wine, travels, friends, laughs, sex and intimacy. And I want to do it - not in spite of him or because of him, but for me and because _I_ can and want to.

August252015

To answer this question you directed to another: No. No. No. No.

Alcoholism is a progressive disease and a "real alcoholic" (as the BB calls us) simply cannot control, handle, maintain, moderate, whatever you want to call it. And we will do anything - up to and including death, for some of us- while justifying our drinking. We have to want to be sober more than we want to drink and that is a very tough choice! We hurt so many people and leave such destruction in our wake.

His choice whether to drink or not, and your choice whether to stay. It doesn't sound like you have much genuine calm in your life.

I'm being blunt, through my experience as the alcoholic and someone once "in love" with a (very crazy) alcoholic. I'd also add- as I just reread and saw your part about your mom- I, too, grew up being told "mom wasn't drunk, it's just one of those nights" and such confusing nonsense (to describe it mildly). That is hard to overcome. You can, though. Boundaries are something I am still learning- with her, because I want her in my life- and afresh with new relationships as I go along in my sobriety.

There can be peace for you. Best of luck.

PhoenixJ

Me- so grounded. Goes to show (in my case) Mr brain tells me one thing-the LOGICAL bit. The rational, efficient, professional part. Then my emotions, feelings and spirituality come along and bugger it all up. The best hospital in the world can run to budget, perfect track record, no backups, all legal work attended to, stores up to date, highly trained staff in good numbers. Then the whole thing gets buggered up when patients are put in the mix and ruin the whole thing.
For me the hard part is letting go and accepting what I did and now have. Like you I basically want to be at peace and thrive. That means focussing on the internal process- not the external behaviour I exhibit. 2 sides of...

PhoenixJ

Sorry- Me is you,, Meassi.

Meassi

I got that

Made me laugh.

The hospital analogy was amazing. Damn those patients!

Meassi

That is harsh.
Are you yourself a recovering alcoholic?

Thanks for sharing your honest opinion!

LexieCat

Here's another thing to consider. Alcoholism is progressive. Even though right now it's while you are away, clearly it's spilling over into YOUR life. That will continue, and it will get worse, until he his ready to stop the insanity.

You see very well what is going on--there's nothing wrong with your powers of perception. Have you been to Al-Anon? Or ACOA? Those programs can help you rebuild your own self so you are able to claim the life you want for yourself.

August252015

Yes, I am 9 mo and a week sober.

I know it was harsh- sometimes I am, because I have been where the questioner (in this case, you) is. I'd like to see folks stop drinking before they suffer as I did (I was given a year, 18 mo to live by the end- story told various other places here) - and those involved with us have their own best lives, whether that is staying with us til we get sober, or not.

I'm a devoted AA er so what I said above is in that framework. The real alcoholic simply can't do anything but stop, if they want to get well. Everything has to change.

Rereading - I perhaps took your words/question a little differently than you intended or T answered. What I was getting at is that these mental things simply aren't a part of a recovered/recovering alcoholic's mind. Like someone else said- it's a totally different person so thinking in terms of these mental games isn't the deal anymore. If that makes sense.

Perhaps (said with huge skepticism), he is just a very heavy drinker (the BB does describe this type of drinker) .... doesn't sound like it based on your description. Regardless of "title" or "diagnosis," there is a wake of destruction, lies, sadness, and all kinds of "crazy thinking" going on. Perhaps the question is....what kind(s) of damage is his drinking doing to your life? (You've described certain ways in the OP) and do you want to live like that?

I can promise you that, for me, peace and a chance at truly living are on this side of the fence- for me, and for everyone who loves me.

Meassi

Yes, it was horrible. Where I live things are different and those groups are a cesspool of dysfunctional relations =(
I have friends who are codependent or recovered A's that I talk to. Sometimes it's just...frustrating to talk about these things. I DO see progress. And that's what f.... me up.

Meassi

Had his daughter not contacted me, I would have been able to say "This is not my beef. If he gets killed, it is HIS choice to put himself in a situation where that happens." Took me years to get here. My father taking his own life and openly accusing me of being the reason helped a lot. Thanks, Dad.

But at the same time part of me is looking down at my life going "You should not find this ok"

Hope that makes sense.

AnvilheadII

if he's drinking AT ALL, there is no recovery. none. zip. drinking is still the central theme of his life....it is what he was doing when you met, and what he still does today. at all costs, he will defend and continue his right to drink. he is not "ready" to be done for good.