xAH filed contempt motion against me
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I am embarassed to admit this but I totally lost it this weekend- I called a million times, texted him, and tried to defend myself to him and explain why he was being crazy.
I feel like I just gave him ammunition to use against me... I looked and seemed CRAZY and I want to just cave to not have him use this all against me...
I feel like I just gave him ammunition to use against me... I looked and seemed CRAZY and I want to just cave to not have him use this all against me...
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WTBH.....here is where I fear that you are trying to apply normal logic to a narcissist....remember that a narcissist turns normal rules topsy-turvy.....
It is not that he will become reasonable about visitation rules if you "cave"....he will just shift to another issue to see if he can upset you apple cart....
You ARE right...the more he sees you upset..the more it bolsters him....
Remember what Lexie just said...you have the facts on your side...and, you have documentation....
In the same l ight....don't share your anxiety about all of this with your daughters....kids pick up on the anxiety and feel insecure.....
I know well how these quys can push the fear buttons...but, do your very best not to l et him "see" it......
dandylion
It is not that he will become reasonable about visitation rules if you "cave"....he will just shift to another issue to see if he can upset you apple cart....
You ARE right...the more he sees you upset..the more it bolsters him....
Remember what Lexie just said...you have the facts on your side...and, you have documentation....
In the same l ight....don't share your anxiety about all of this with your daughters....kids pick up on the anxiety and feel insecure.....
I know well how these quys can push the fear buttons...but, do your very best not to l et him "see" it......
dandylion
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Originally Posted by dandylion 
It is not that he will become reasonable about visitation rules if you "cave"....he will just shift to another issue to see if he can upset you apple cart....
This, this, a million times this. When I split from my first husband (who was not an A, but had plenty of emotional issues at the time), he did this same thing to me--constantly dragging me into court for the most ridiculous stuff. It did not help that his lawyer was primarily a personal injury lawyer, who took a "scorched earth" approach to our case. She also figured out pretty early on that XH's rich parents were paying the bills, so she convinced them all that they had a reasonable chance of success with everything they filed. Ultimately, the judge DID give XH and his awful attorney the smack down in court, and as soon as XH's parents realized how they were wasting money, they clipped the purse strings.
WTBH, is there someone else you can text or call when you feel overwhelmed? That is what I did when I felt compelled to text someone who was abusing me. It was very, very hard at first, but got easier over time.
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Maybe my mistake is in thinking that I can somehow control whether this goes back to court endlessly...
I don't know why I am so afraid of it since I DO have facts and the law on my side...
His lawyer is wretched and nasty and a scorched earth approach type...
I just do not have any fight left in me right about now...
I don't know why I am so afraid of it since I DO have facts and the law on my side...
His lawyer is wretched and nasty and a scorched earth approach type...
I just do not have any fight left in me right about now...
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The point is, you don't HAVE to fight. This has been settled. Just because he doesn't like it and is bent on dragging you back into court doesn't mean you have to fight it. Just show up, calmly present your evidence and speak your piece.
Yes, I think you do have to accept that he will pull this kind of crap from time to time. Don't take the bait. You took it this weekend but you don't have to take it again.
If he presents any of that crap in court, you simply say you were abiding by the order, you were trying to point that out to him, but you can now see that the only way to deal with it is to come to court and let the court decide. Period.
Yes, I think you do have to accept that he will pull this kind of crap from time to time. Don't take the bait. You took it this weekend but you don't have to take it again.
If he presents any of that crap in court, you simply say you were abiding by the order, you were trying to point that out to him, but you can now see that the only way to deal with it is to come to court and let the court decide. Period.
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Just one other thing. When you desperately try to get him NOT to go back into court, you are announcing, with a neon sign and flashing lights, that this is how he can get to you--make noises about taking you back into court. Don't tip your hand that way. However much you dread or fear something, do NOT let him see you sweat.
My bet is that the court won't sanction him THIS time (because it's his first post-order rodeo), but if he pulls it again the court will have a lot less patience. Still, ask for the sanction, and however the court rules, keep your cool. Come back here and rant away, but wait till you are out of court and out of his earshot.
My bet is that the court won't sanction him THIS time (because it's his first post-order rodeo), but if he pulls it again the court will have a lot less patience. Still, ask for the sanction, and however the court rules, keep your cool. Come back here and rant away, but wait till you are out of court and out of his earshot.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
Yes, I think you do have to accept that he will pull this kind of crap from time to time. Don't take the bait. You took it this weekend but you don't have to take it again.
If he presents any of that crap in court, you simply say you were abiding by the order, you were trying to point that out to him, but you can now see that the only way to deal with it is to come to court and let the court decide. Period.
And I stupidly played into it...
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
Just one other thing. When you desperately try to get him NOT to go back into court, you are announcing, with a neon sign and flashing lights, that this is how he can get to you--make noises about taking you back into court. Don't tip your hand that way. However much you dread or fear something, do NOT let him see you sweat.
My bet is that the court won't sanction him THIS time (because it's his first post-order rodeo), but if he pulls it again the court will have a lot less patience. Still, ask for the sanction, and however the court rules, keep your cool. Come back here and rant away, but wait till you are out of court and out of his earshot.
My bet is that the court won't sanction him THIS time (because it's his first post-order rodeo), but if he pulls it again the court will have a lot less patience. Still, ask for the sanction, and however the court rules, keep your cool. Come back here and rant away, but wait till you are out of court and out of his earshot.
This is a man who was FIRED from his job for being drunk and abusive to teen girls and STILL got a new teaching job in a new state...
This is a man who abused our daughter and DCYF gave a million more chances to despite history of supervised visits...
I am afraid that I will be the one who ends up looking crazy and wrong in this....
He calls the kids when he KNOWS they are busy and then in court docs lists dates he tries to call them as if Im keeping them from him...
It's never ending...
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Hun-don't you have his own words from a few weeks ago telling you he blatantly refuses to follow court orders? Just after y'all settled? You have nothing to worry about-judges see this slime everyday-and know a fake and abuser when they see one.
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Sweets, courts are USED to seeing this sort of thing. They aren't as easily fooled as you might think. Yes, I seem to recall that communication from him saying he won't abide by the order. Use it.
You can even tell the court what he has done to violate, but that unlike him, you prefer not to spend your life in a courtroom, but that you have been documenting all the violations--and then show them. The court will get the picture.
There's a survivor in one of my cases whose husband got 20 years for unspeakable abuse against her, and she still thinks he will figure out a way to get out of it. He's served over half his sentence and he's not going anywhere, but she still thinks he's so smart and so clever he'll beat it. Not happening. Same with your ex. He's not nearly as smart as he thinks he is--or even that you think he is. And however scary his lawyer seems to you, I'm betting his lawyer's not too happy with him, either.
You can even tell the court what he has done to violate, but that unlike him, you prefer not to spend your life in a courtroom, but that you have been documenting all the violations--and then show them. The court will get the picture.
There's a survivor in one of my cases whose husband got 20 years for unspeakable abuse against her, and she still thinks he will figure out a way to get out of it. He's served over half his sentence and he's not going anywhere, but she still thinks he's so smart and so clever he'll beat it. Not happening. Same with your ex. He's not nearly as smart as he thinks he is--or even that you think he is. And however scary his lawyer seems to you, I'm betting his lawyer's not too happy with him, either.
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(((((((WTBH)))))) It sounds like you triggered in a PTSD kind of way, friend. Totally understandable, but yeah, I'm sure it gave him exactly the reaction he wanted. You, flustered & scared. I'll bet it made him feel pretty powerful. Jerk. 
Nothing is going to make him stop until he's ready, IMO. He's going to keep dragging you through this system as long as the system allows him to file this crap & unfortunately, the only thing you CAN do is stay patient & try not to let him see when your feathers have been ruffled. I know that sucks & it's completely unfair, but that IS where you're at with him right now.
Others have such great advice in dealing with these situations, I hope something resonates for you. ((((More Hugs))))
Nothing is going to make him stop until he's ready, IMO. He's going to keep dragging you through this system as long as the system allows him to file this crap & unfortunately, the only thing you CAN do is stay patient & try not to let him see when your feathers have been ruffled. I know that sucks & it's completely unfair, but that IS where you're at with him right now.
Others have such great advice in dealing with these situations, I hope something resonates for you. ((((More Hugs))))
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Don't cave--you don't want your kids taken for a visit by a person who may
have been drinking right before he picked them up.
That's the bottom line--you have to protect your children
and enforcing the rules for visitation are how you need to do it.
have been drinking right before he picked them up.
That's the bottom line--you have to protect your children
and enforcing the rules for visitation are how you need to do it.
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Btw, friend-I know why you're scared-after years of being intimidated and threatened and abused, I get it-I know you were as well. You've got to dig deep-for your kids-I know you can do this!!! You can!!! All you need to do is let him show his true colors-which he keeps doing! If you give these guys rope, they don't climb it or do the honorable right thing-they hang themselves. Stick to the truth, don't engage with a mentally unstable person and walk ahead and fight for those kids!!! (I know you have been-and I know how tired you are).
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WTBH,
You are a very strong person, and you can do this. No more trying to explain things to him. We have always tried to be reasonable, responsible people, but that doesn't work with a mentally disordered person.
I was fighting with my ex from July 2014 to present. Whenever he starts up on me again, I have a standard email that I send him.
This is it ----------------------------------------
__________________________________________
Please review your divorce decree, specifically, article X on page 16. Counsel fees. It states:
" Should either party fail to abide by the terms of this Agreement, then the defaulting party will indemnify and hold the other harmless for all reasonable expenses and costs including attorney's fees and disbursements incurred in successfully enforcing this Agreement".
This means that if I need to get an attorney you will be held responsible to pay my attorney fees, if I file a motion for contempt of court, and this motion is approved by the judge. Contempt of court also means that if you do not satisfy the Divorce Agreement, that a bench warrant can be served.
You are asking me to not follow the divorce decree, and to do things your way. This I am unable to do. If you want to change the court order then you can file a motion for modification of the divorce decree, and if you are awarded that, then I will strickly adhere to the modified divorce decree.
Please let me know your thoughts on this.
Respectfully,
amy55
_________________________________________
Let him know that you are not afraid of court.
Best Wishes and many hugs being sent to you.
amy
You are a very strong person, and you can do this. No more trying to explain things to him. We have always tried to be reasonable, responsible people, but that doesn't work with a mentally disordered person.
I was fighting with my ex from July 2014 to present. Whenever he starts up on me again, I have a standard email that I send him.
This is it ----------------------------------------
__________________________________________
Please review your divorce decree, specifically, article X on page 16. Counsel fees. It states:
" Should either party fail to abide by the terms of this Agreement, then the defaulting party will indemnify and hold the other harmless for all reasonable expenses and costs including attorney's fees and disbursements incurred in successfully enforcing this Agreement".
This means that if I need to get an attorney you will be held responsible to pay my attorney fees, if I file a motion for contempt of court, and this motion is approved by the judge. Contempt of court also means that if you do not satisfy the Divorce Agreement, that a bench warrant can be served.
You are asking me to not follow the divorce decree, and to do things your way. This I am unable to do. If you want to change the court order then you can file a motion for modification of the divorce decree, and if you are awarded that, then I will strickly adhere to the modified divorce decree.
Please let me know your thoughts on this.
Respectfully,
amy55
_________________________________________
Let him know that you are not afraid of court.
Best Wishes and many hugs being sent to you.
amy
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The Courts can't be all on his side......I mean they did impose breathalyzer and his visitation is not much. He also missed a hearing as I recall?????
Yes, I do remember he emailed you before the ink was dry on that Order saying he wouldn't be following it. That should be pretty offensive to the Judge.
Yes, I do remember he emailed you before the ink was dry on that Order saying he wouldn't be following it. That should be pretty offensive to the Judge.
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^ everything he's done will be offensive to the judge. Just let him hang himself. It's what they do-all the while kicking and screaming and pointin the finger at you. WTBH-this is what you get when your MIL is in the "worst enabling blaming coddling lying mother of the year" category: a little man child that likes to throw tantrums and abuse his kids to get back at you and not follow any orders bc mommy (and in my case, sissy) tell him he doesn't have to-nobody holds poor little boy accountable. Checkmate.
Just let him be himself-that speaks volumes!
Just let him be himself-that speaks volumes!
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Also-check out the blog "crying out for justice",...one if the best resources I've found to understand and heal from abuse. Lundy Bancroft is always a good read too. The more you understand it, the more power it gives you to fight.
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(((((Hugs))))), WTBH. I understand completely how nerve-wracking this. I'll be a 'pocket-rider' for support -- I'm sure quite a lot of us SR F&F will -- so you don't feel quite so alone.
Like you and the others have said, WTBH, you have the facts and truth on your side. You were trying to follow the parenting plan. He was trying to manipulate and control you still. Just because you said OK that you understood what he was saying, does NOT mean that you said OK to his changing the plans. You stated you were continuing to follow the plan laid out by the court and a reasonable person would have heard that. He is not a reasonable person. I trust that the judge will be able to see that in his behavior and this motion as well.
And the calls... well, the frequency at which he's calling is unreasonable as well. It interferes with your life and it interferes with the kids' lives and their ability to take care of their homework or activities. You haven't taken their phones away from them - which is what AXH did when DS was with him until he was told to stop - so you _aren't_ blocking his ability to call them.
I'm sorry that your weekend was so rough. I also understand how you could get wrapped up into trying to defend yourself with him. It took a lot of work for me to not go into that mode with AXH. And sometimes, I still have to fight the urge to defend myself with him. It was part of why I had my sister review e-mails and ran stuff by her or friends before responding to him for a while. They'd very bluntly point out that I don't need to explain why; all I had to say was that I was sticking to the plan and leave it there. He's never going to acknowledge how unreasonable he is, because in his mind he is entitled to do what ever he wants to do and you're not entitled to a life without him.
AXH hated the rules about his visitations with DS; all he really wanted was to be able to show up whenever he felt like it and it ended up coming out loud and clear for the judge to hear. It was so nice to hear him (the judge) tell AXH, "No, I'm telling you the way it's going to be. There's nothing to 'work out' with TU. She'll be able to take this plan to the bank."
BTW, I also absolutely dislike calling him "my" AXH, too. He's not 'mine' and I really don't wish to claim him. He's just AXH, now. (And what what "A" stands for sometimes changes - which is the nice thing about acronyms: what is sometimes quite colorful language doesn't actually come across.)
Like you and the others have said, WTBH, you have the facts and truth on your side. You were trying to follow the parenting plan. He was trying to manipulate and control you still. Just because you said OK that you understood what he was saying, does NOT mean that you said OK to his changing the plans. You stated you were continuing to follow the plan laid out by the court and a reasonable person would have heard that. He is not a reasonable person. I trust that the judge will be able to see that in his behavior and this motion as well.
And the calls... well, the frequency at which he's calling is unreasonable as well. It interferes with your life and it interferes with the kids' lives and their ability to take care of their homework or activities. You haven't taken their phones away from them - which is what AXH did when DS was with him until he was told to stop - so you _aren't_ blocking his ability to call them.
I'm sorry that your weekend was so rough. I also understand how you could get wrapped up into trying to defend yourself with him. It took a lot of work for me to not go into that mode with AXH. And sometimes, I still have to fight the urge to defend myself with him. It was part of why I had my sister review e-mails and ran stuff by her or friends before responding to him for a while. They'd very bluntly point out that I don't need to explain why; all I had to say was that I was sticking to the plan and leave it there. He's never going to acknowledge how unreasonable he is, because in his mind he is entitled to do what ever he wants to do and you're not entitled to a life without him.
AXH hated the rules about his visitations with DS; all he really wanted was to be able to show up whenever he felt like it and it ended up coming out loud and clear for the judge to hear. It was so nice to hear him (the judge) tell AXH, "No, I'm telling you the way it's going to be. There's nothing to 'work out' with TU. She'll be able to take this plan to the bank."
BTW, I also absolutely dislike calling him "my" AXH, too. He's not 'mine' and I really don't wish to claim him. He's just AXH, now. (And what what "A" stands for sometimes changes - which is the nice thing about acronyms: what is sometimes quite colorful language doesn't actually come across.)
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Thank you all SO much... I spent time today during lunch looking at emails from him just in the last few weeks and my rote replies to him stating over and over "I will be following the parenting plan to the letter of the law, I suggest you do the same. I am not debating this with you".
So, as much as I do not want to be verbally abused by his snake oil salesman, cop killer defender of a lawyer in court, I DO now realize that the facts and law are on my side...
Clearly I need to be in therapy pretty darned ASAP bc my reaction to this and the panic stricken existence I led all weekend is not healthy for me and made me less than ideal as a mom... The kids for sure picked up on my panic and I feel awful for it...
His mom has DEEP pockets and to avenge her baby boy's "good name" she seems willing to pay this lawyer to file whatever nonsense he can convince them makes sense for him to file...
I could have taken him to court a million times in the last 3 weeks over his insta-contempt BS but I did not want to start down this path...
Now that he has started down it I will bring the dates and times of refused breathalyzers, the failed breathalyzers and present the stuff that did not get presented at the final hearing, as I agreed to settle.
He just dug his own grave so to speak.
Im still upset and fed up that he is doing this but youre all so much more clear headed than me and have been a BLESSING (truly!) for pointing out the facts for me...
I was feeling like Im the same as him with the endless calls and texts he's subjected me to for 3 years just because I totally lost it yesterday and called and texted and pleaded with him like a crazy person...
Im so annoyed by myself for reacting like I did... Ugh... Hadn't done that in YEARS with him and I failed- epically...
So, as much as I do not want to be verbally abused by his snake oil salesman, cop killer defender of a lawyer in court, I DO now realize that the facts and law are on my side...
Clearly I need to be in therapy pretty darned ASAP bc my reaction to this and the panic stricken existence I led all weekend is not healthy for me and made me less than ideal as a mom... The kids for sure picked up on my panic and I feel awful for it...
His mom has DEEP pockets and to avenge her baby boy's "good name" she seems willing to pay this lawyer to file whatever nonsense he can convince them makes sense for him to file...
I could have taken him to court a million times in the last 3 weeks over his insta-contempt BS but I did not want to start down this path...
Now that he has started down it I will bring the dates and times of refused breathalyzers, the failed breathalyzers and present the stuff that did not get presented at the final hearing, as I agreed to settle.
He just dug his own grave so to speak.
Im still upset and fed up that he is doing this but youre all so much more clear headed than me and have been a BLESSING (truly!) for pointing out the facts for me...
I was feeling like Im the same as him with the endless calls and texts he's subjected me to for 3 years just because I totally lost it yesterday and called and texted and pleaded with him like a crazy person...
Im so annoyed by myself for reacting like I did... Ugh... Hadn't done that in YEARS with him and I failed- epically...
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