Final chance...??!
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
Posts: 8,968
Ursula's comment here made me think, "Secondly, you don't have to give one final chance in hopes of a good marriage. If you want to walk away, then do it. If he wants to get sober, no reason you all can't reconcile later, only if you want to, but you're wasting time on him and he has made no changes and has no consequences."
This seems so true but we codependent types often thinks it is all up to us. If the addict/alcoholic really wants the relationship to work, he/she gets to have some control also. If both parties (including the addict) wants to get together later, no problem.
I'm embarrassed to say I had assumed Hummer was American (Typical of us folks in the US) so was a bit shocked by a trip to Cypress. I suppose that is like a trip to Mexico here in the US.
Hummer, have a peaceful Christmas no matter what.
This seems so true but we codependent types often thinks it is all up to us. If the addict/alcoholic really wants the relationship to work, he/she gets to have some control also. If both parties (including the addict) wants to get together later, no problem.
I'm embarrassed to say I had assumed Hummer was American (Typical of us folks in the US) so was a bit shocked by a trip to Cypress. I suppose that is like a trip to Mexico here in the US.
Hummer, have a peaceful Christmas no matter what.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 207
Still no closer to final decision....
Hi everyone, Hope the holidays were restful and best wishes for coming year.
I don't feel any closer to a final decision... I spent Christmas apart from my husband but allowed him home for a week at new year. This was difficult. He is attending addiction counselling weekly. He has told all of his family and friends (and some colleagues) that he was addicted to alcohol and has cut it out of his life completely. He had an open chat with his 3 adult children to allow them to ask anything they felt they needed to know. He never had a drink the week we were together (he can go weeks when we are together so not unusual) and it doesn't sound as though he ever wants to drink again - positive steps I believe although he knows it won't be plain sailing. Trouble is I just don't know how I feel about anything anymore and being neither together or apart is not very good for either of us. I feel like him looking at a dating site when we were going through a dark patch (due to his alcohol consumption) is rearing its head again as well as the cosy, supportive text he had on his phone from a woman in April of last year - do I write those off as blips, albeit major blips, as a result of the drinking and would it be safe to assume that if the drinking has stopped then this will also be behind us. Am I foolish to still believe that he is a loyal man and that he hasn't cheated despite those previous actions? The week we had together was mixed - Nice meals, walks, coffee, shopping and some family time although I didn't feel much like socialising as I fell quite heavy. I was scared of everything falling back into place and we just pick up where we left off and I wasn't all that relaxed as in my mind I am 50% in and 50% out. Do you think I am putting too much emphasis on those two incidents when I should be focusing on what's positive and the actions he has put into place. He really is determined and making great changes to his lifestyle and diet too. Should I bear with it and see if this is finally the husband I wanted and the marriage can be put back on track? Lots of questions - too many!
When he left to return to work (400 miles away) on Monday I felt a mixture of sadness and relief. Tensions were high and sleep not forthcoming - I've enjoyed a couple of good nights sleep since then. We will not see each other again for a while until his twins 18th birthday mid February . He is asking whether I would like more space to work things out etc - I suppose he is trying to give me what I need after focusing on his own needs for so long!
I am attending counselling myself to see if it will help me reach a decision but counsellors here don't tend to give advice and only listen so
I look forward to all your responses. Thank you
I don't feel any closer to a final decision... I spent Christmas apart from my husband but allowed him home for a week at new year. This was difficult. He is attending addiction counselling weekly. He has told all of his family and friends (and some colleagues) that he was addicted to alcohol and has cut it out of his life completely. He had an open chat with his 3 adult children to allow them to ask anything they felt they needed to know. He never had a drink the week we were together (he can go weeks when we are together so not unusual) and it doesn't sound as though he ever wants to drink again - positive steps I believe although he knows it won't be plain sailing. Trouble is I just don't know how I feel about anything anymore and being neither together or apart is not very good for either of us. I feel like him looking at a dating site when we were going through a dark patch (due to his alcohol consumption) is rearing its head again as well as the cosy, supportive text he had on his phone from a woman in April of last year - do I write those off as blips, albeit major blips, as a result of the drinking and would it be safe to assume that if the drinking has stopped then this will also be behind us. Am I foolish to still believe that he is a loyal man and that he hasn't cheated despite those previous actions? The week we had together was mixed - Nice meals, walks, coffee, shopping and some family time although I didn't feel much like socialising as I fell quite heavy. I was scared of everything falling back into place and we just pick up where we left off and I wasn't all that relaxed as in my mind I am 50% in and 50% out. Do you think I am putting too much emphasis on those two incidents when I should be focusing on what's positive and the actions he has put into place. He really is determined and making great changes to his lifestyle and diet too. Should I bear with it and see if this is finally the husband I wanted and the marriage can be put back on track? Lots of questions - too many!
When he left to return to work (400 miles away) on Monday I felt a mixture of sadness and relief. Tensions were high and sleep not forthcoming - I've enjoyed a couple of good nights sleep since then. We will not see each other again for a while until his twins 18th birthday mid February . He is asking whether I would like more space to work things out etc - I suppose he is trying to give me what I need after focusing on his own needs for so long!
I am attending counselling myself to see if it will help me reach a decision but counsellors here don't tend to give advice and only listen so
I look forward to all your responses. Thank you
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I've got another question. Assume, for the sake of argument, that these incidents were attributable to the drinking and to the tension in the marriage. (I don't consider an occasional "look" at a dating site necessarily as an indicator of infidelity--actually creating a profile or communicating with people on the site is a different story.)
Do you feel attached enough to him to be married to him?
It kind of sounds as if you are looking at this more as what you "owe" him, or what you "should" do, than expressing a real, deep-down desire to live out the rest of your days with him.
Do you feel attached enough to him to be married to him?
It kind of sounds as if you are looking at this more as what you "owe" him, or what you "should" do, than expressing a real, deep-down desire to live out the rest of your days with him.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: London, UK
Posts: 53
I am not very experienced at dealing with alcoholics like some on here, but having come into contact with one for the past few months I know this much: when you are having sleepless nights and you have constant anxiety in his presence, your own inner wisdom is telling you something loud and clear.
No matter what the opinions of friends, or what you learn in counselling, however helpful, at the end of the day you seem to know yourself that you are not happy. All the suggestions you make about giving him another chance come out of a beautiful loyalty and innate kindness that you have. But sometimes loyalty is misguided, it is more of a duty. Over the years he has probably trained you to always put him first.
Your inner wisdom is what you must listen to. If it's all confused because of your anxious thoughts working over time, try clearing some space. Remember how good you can feel when you're on your own, that sense of peace and calm from which you can do anything and achieve anything.
I was given some advice here: to love and support from a distance. I like that suggestion.
No matter what the opinions of friends, or what you learn in counselling, however helpful, at the end of the day you seem to know yourself that you are not happy. All the suggestions you make about giving him another chance come out of a beautiful loyalty and innate kindness that you have. But sometimes loyalty is misguided, it is more of a duty. Over the years he has probably trained you to always put him first.
Your inner wisdom is what you must listen to. If it's all confused because of your anxious thoughts working over time, try clearing some space. Remember how good you can feel when you're on your own, that sense of peace and calm from which you can do anything and achieve anything.
I was given some advice here: to love and support from a distance. I like that suggestion.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 786
Originally Posted by chloe210 
I am not very experienced at dealing with alcoholics like some on here, but having come into contact with one for the past few months I know this much: when you are having sleepless nights and you have constant anxiety in his presence, your own inner wisdom is telling you something loud and clear.
Side comment- in my experience, emotionally unhealthy people have a very hard time being single without relationships for long. It's another way to fill the void that is better spent being worked on...This applies to many As and their spouses...
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,872
^ yep! That was me when I was emotionally unhealthy and immature-during my drinking days :/ I used sex and alcohol to fill me up-make me complete. (Can I tell you how nice it is to be able to admit that and not feel like ok going to vomit from shame and also know I am not that person any longer?!)
Also-my anxiety used to be so extremely bad-I ended up getting anxious over doing anything. I was literally a woman on the edge....I never was rested, constantly stressed, had physical body symptoms manifest as his drinking got worse, etc. My inner voice was absolutely telling me something-just took years to not be afraid to listen to it
Whatever you do, strive for peace. You're worth it!
Also-my anxiety used to be so extremely bad-I ended up getting anxious over doing anything. I was literally a woman on the edge....I never was rested, constantly stressed, had physical body symptoms manifest as his drinking got worse, etc. My inner voice was absolutely telling me something-just took years to not be afraid to listen to it
Whatever you do, strive for peace. You're worth it!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 207
Thanks to all of you for commenting - in answer to the questions, I'm not sure if I trust him or if the trust can be built up again. I Will take a bit of time to try and work it out.
Maybe looking at a dating site is not considered cheating, he had created a profile - just didn't go so far as to activate it.
Not sure about the physical side of things - I'm not interested at the moment but maybe that too would return eventually...
Maybe looking at a dating site is not considered cheating, he had created a profile - just didn't go so far as to activate it.
Not sure about the physical side of things - I'm not interested at the moment but maybe that too would return eventually...
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by Thomas45
Hello and welcome to the forum Hummer.
This is a classic mistake that a lot of well-meaning people make, myself included with my ex wife who is an alcoholic. The problem with this kind of thinking is that you are applying a rational solution to an irrational disease. You want him to only drink on weekends and on social occasions because you are not an alcoholic and you have the ability to approach drinking with rationality and moderation. He simply can't do that, long term alcohol consumption seriously degrades an individual's sense of self control. You are trying to make rules for him to follow around something that he can not control - being an addict. And by doing so, you are trying to control or moderate his behavior - which causes him to be resentful. Nobody likes the feeling that someone else is trying to control them to do something they don't want to do, it isn't a nice feeling. This is why ultimatums and joint rules around drinking and behavior often backfire, because they start a cycle of resentment and negativity from the person being controlled which then spreads through other aspects of the relationship.
This is a classic mistake that a lot of well-meaning people make, myself included with my ex wife who is an alcoholic. The problem with this kind of thinking is that you are applying a rational solution to an irrational disease. You want him to only drink on weekends and on social occasions because you are not an alcoholic and you have the ability to approach drinking with rationality and moderation. He simply can't do that, long term alcohol consumption seriously degrades an individual's sense of self control. You are trying to make rules for him to follow around something that he can not control - being an addict. And by doing so, you are trying to control or moderate his behavior - which causes him to be resentful. Nobody likes the feeling that someone else is trying to control them to do something they don't want to do, it isn't a nice feeling. This is why ultimatums and joint rules around drinking and behavior often backfire, because they start a cycle of resentment and negativity from the person being controlled which then spreads through other aspects of the relationship.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,411
Interesting he wants to give you "space" now--
Space for you or for him?
Wishing you the best Hummer--long distance relationships
are so hard even without the challenges of infidelity and addiction.
I think dandy's idea of looking within for the answers via Alanon
or in some other way would be the most helpful for you in the long run
Space for you or for him?
Wishing you the best Hummer--long distance relationships
are so hard even without the challenges of infidelity and addiction.
I think dandy's idea of looking within for the answers via Alanon
or in some other way would be the most helpful for you in the long run
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I recommend counseling for you. I know for myself, it has been one of the best things I have ever done for myself. It helped me figure out who I am, what I deserve, what I can handle, and what I cannot.
Many hugs to you. I am glad he is making strides either way, I hope it sticks.
Many hugs to you. I am glad he is making strides either way, I hope it sticks.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
Do you think I am putting too much emphasis on those two incidents
i think you are perhaps doing yourself a disservice by assuming it was only TWO incidents.......in fact it's the only two THAT YOU KNOW OF. often there is a LOT more going on than we know, WANT to know, or have been told about.
its much like the person pulled over for drunk driving.....
Cop: How much have you had to drink today, sir?
Driver: Only two, occifer.............said while holding up four fingers.
the point isn't the number of times he behaved badly, or how far over the line he went.....it's about YOU Hummer. you shouldn't have to talk yourself IN to trying to stick it out, giving him another chance (we can delete the FINAL word, until you truly ARE done handing out chances like raffle tickets). he is no more important than you are....great that NOW he SAYS he's going to do the whole sober thing.....but that does not mean YOU are obligated to hang around and see if this rocket ever gets off the launch pad.
You are done when YOU say you are done. REGARDLESS of what he is doing, says he's doing, blah blah blah.
i think you are perhaps doing yourself a disservice by assuming it was only TWO incidents.......in fact it's the only two THAT YOU KNOW OF. often there is a LOT more going on than we know, WANT to know, or have been told about.
its much like the person pulled over for drunk driving.....
Cop: How much have you had to drink today, sir?
Driver: Only two, occifer.............said while holding up four fingers.
the point isn't the number of times he behaved badly, or how far over the line he went.....it's about YOU Hummer. you shouldn't have to talk yourself IN to trying to stick it out, giving him another chance (we can delete the FINAL word, until you truly ARE done handing out chances like raffle tickets). he is no more important than you are....great that NOW he SAYS he's going to do the whole sober thing.....but that does not mean YOU are obligated to hang around and see if this rocket ever gets off the launch pad.
You are done when YOU say you are done. REGARDLESS of what he is doing, says he's doing, blah blah blah.
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 246
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
you shouldn't have to talk yourself IN to trying to stick it out, giving him another chance (we can delete the FINAL word, until you truly ARE done handing out chances like raffle tickets). he is no more important than you are....great that NOW he SAYS he's going to do the whole sober thing.....but that does not mean YOU are obligated to hang around and see if this rocket ever gets off the launch pad.
You are done when YOU say you are done. REGARDLESS of what he is doing, says he's doing, blah blah blah.
You are done when YOU say you are done. REGARDLESS of what he is doing, says he's doing, blah blah blah.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 207
Final chance....update!
Hi everyone, i received a lot of support here back in December 2015 when I was considering leaving my marriage to my highly functioning alcohol addicted husband.
During these past 3 months we've had ups and downs but this week marked 100 days alcohol free for my husband. Mostly our marriage can be good - more so when we spend time together - due to work we don't see each other every week and sometime this can cause resentment on my husband's part and he will cause arguments about this whereas I just get on with it. He thinks he loves me more, misses me more etc despite me sticking by him these past difficult years.
So, I am happy with his progress and I have received some counselling of my own and I'm currently subscribed to a conscious transitions ecourse which is helping me with the fear barriers - fear of him failing, fear of not being able to trust him fully again and fear of wasting too much time trying to make things right!
One thing bothers me though, when I told my husband I had signed up for the course he was quite defensive saying things like "what's the problem now?" And questioning why I have to do the course - I explained that the course was work on myself but a full blown text argument ensued (we were in different parts of the world at the time) and a few days silence afterwards - probably my choosing as I was sick and tired of the massive fuss over nothing!
During our argument he cast up things I'd done to offend him in the past (things I had already apologised for and happened several years ago) and he also said that I had put him on the spot in December when I told him to choose alcohol or me - alarm bells rang in my head when he said that although he continues to state that he gave up alcohol of his own free will etc - we are currently spending the best part of 3 weeks together (Easter hols) and it's going well. I suppose we just continue to see if things continue to improve but I'd really appreciate your views and feedback on my update. Thank you.
During these past 3 months we've had ups and downs but this week marked 100 days alcohol free for my husband. Mostly our marriage can be good - more so when we spend time together - due to work we don't see each other every week and sometime this can cause resentment on my husband's part and he will cause arguments about this whereas I just get on with it. He thinks he loves me more, misses me more etc despite me sticking by him these past difficult years.
So, I am happy with his progress and I have received some counselling of my own and I'm currently subscribed to a conscious transitions ecourse which is helping me with the fear barriers - fear of him failing, fear of not being able to trust him fully again and fear of wasting too much time trying to make things right!
One thing bothers me though, when I told my husband I had signed up for the course he was quite defensive saying things like "what's the problem now?" And questioning why I have to do the course - I explained that the course was work on myself but a full blown text argument ensued (we were in different parts of the world at the time) and a few days silence afterwards - probably my choosing as I was sick and tired of the massive fuss over nothing!
During our argument he cast up things I'd done to offend him in the past (things I had already apologised for and happened several years ago) and he also said that I had put him on the spot in December when I told him to choose alcohol or me - alarm bells rang in my head when he said that although he continues to state that he gave up alcohol of his own free will etc - we are currently spending the best part of 3 weeks together (Easter hols) and it's going well. I suppose we just continue to see if things continue to improve but I'd really appreciate your views and feedback on my update. Thank you.
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Hummer.....I could be wrong, of course....but, I have a sneaking suspicion that he might (secretly) view you as the force that interrupted his relationship with his ability to drink. The thing that alcoholics fear the most is the loss of the ability to drink. To the alcoholic, this is like asking them to cut off a limb.,,,,like taking water from a goldfish.
The alcoholic resents everyone and anything that seperates them from their best friend....alcohol. After all, it is what helps them to deal with the discomforts of life.
It does sound to me like he is harboring resentments toward you....even, digging up "old bones".....
If so...this is not about you...it is about HIM....and, the war that is going on in his head.....
100 days is a century to the alcoholic who is not drinking...but, it is a very short time in the picture of genuine recovery---which is a lifetime....
In recovery circles...it is sometimes called the "pink cloud" period....
Early recovery ...the first two years...requires sustained, intense, focused effort to keep sobriety as the first priority of their life. Many emotions occur.....and, it is the alcoholic's responsibility to deal with these.....
This subject...(the war in the head)....is addressed to clearly in the articles of Floyd P. Garrett, MD.....I suggest starting with "The Addict's Dillema", first....
You can find them by doing a google search.....
Hummer...I must ask you one question---you typed that he says he loves you and misses you more...despite yours sticking by him these last difficult years.....
DESPITE?! Did you mistype that?? did you mean "because" instead of
"despite"?
I also wonder if he has not become very dependent on you, over the years. The alcoholic can be co-dependent, also.
It IS normal to miss each other when separated in a marriage--irrespective of all other issues....
But...you may be fortunate that you two are not together all the time...as, the first year of sobriety can be miserable---even worse than the actual drinking, for some people...lol....
For the immediate....I think that detachment from the accusations and negative comments would be a good thing, for you......Picture him with a large A on his forehead...(for alcoholism)....or, picture him like a quacking duck when stupid and ridiculous things come out of his mouth.....
dandylion
The alcoholic resents everyone and anything that seperates them from their best friend....alcohol. After all, it is what helps them to deal with the discomforts of life.
It does sound to me like he is harboring resentments toward you....even, digging up "old bones".....
If so...this is not about you...it is about HIM....and, the war that is going on in his head.....
100 days is a century to the alcoholic who is not drinking...but, it is a very short time in the picture of genuine recovery---which is a lifetime....
In recovery circles...it is sometimes called the "pink cloud" period....
Early recovery ...the first two years...requires sustained, intense, focused effort to keep sobriety as the first priority of their life. Many emotions occur.....and, it is the alcoholic's responsibility to deal with these.....
This subject...(the war in the head)....is addressed to clearly in the articles of Floyd P. Garrett, MD.....I suggest starting with "The Addict's Dillema", first....
You can find them by doing a google search.....
Hummer...I must ask you one question---you typed that he says he loves you and misses you more...despite yours sticking by him these last difficult years.....
DESPITE?! Did you mistype that?? did you mean "because" instead of
"despite"?
I also wonder if he has not become very dependent on you, over the years. The alcoholic can be co-dependent, also.
It IS normal to miss each other when separated in a marriage--irrespective of all other issues....
But...you may be fortunate that you two are not together all the time...as, the first year of sobriety can be miserable---even worse than the actual drinking, for some people...lol....
For the immediate....I think that detachment from the accusations and negative comments would be a good thing, for you......Picture him with a large A on his forehead...(for alcoholism)....or, picture him like a quacking duck when stupid and ridiculous things come out of his mouth.....
dandylion
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 207
Thank you for the insightful response dandylion.
I wasn't very clear, I meant that I have stuck by him through awful times and yet he claims he loves me more and misses me more etc
My husband has a counsellor he visits as and when he feels he needs and has subscribed to a couple of emails that he receives in his mailbox daily - other than that (and abstaining) I'm not sure if this is intense or dedicated enough and what do I do if he has a relapse - do I forgive him and stay or leave straight away? I told him in December I would only consider a life with him if he remains sober.
Yes, the A or duck image should help when he starts spouting nonsense lol!
Thanks
I wasn't very clear, I meant that I have stuck by him through awful times and yet he claims he loves me more and misses me more etc
My husband has a counsellor he visits as and when he feels he needs and has subscribed to a couple of emails that he receives in his mailbox daily - other than that (and abstaining) I'm not sure if this is intense or dedicated enough and what do I do if he has a relapse - do I forgive him and stay or leave straight away? I told him in December I would only consider a life with him if he remains sober.
Yes, the A or duck image should help when he starts spouting nonsense lol!
Thanks
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