CarryThatWeight

Hi all, I've been a long time lurker and a sometime poster. I am married to a recovering alcoholic with a lot of sobriety time. Is in AA and sponsors, etc. I have a LOT of knowledge about a lot of things related to our struggles we discuss on this board. I know all the "right" answers. I know I am very codependent. What I can't seem to do is actually turn all that knowledge to change. For example, I know that looking to another human being to fulfill all your needs is unhealthy, and that you've got to be kind to and love yourself first, etc. Despite this, I can't seem to stop wanting my husband to be the one who completes me, even though I KNOW better, which makes me constantly upset at my unmet needs and expectations. I am stuck in a rut and can't seem to stop trying to "fix" our marriage, which drives him nuts. I have had lots of therapy, I'm in al anon, have worked all 12 steps, have read Codependent No More, I listen to numerous al anon speakers... Basically I'll do anything I can think to do, but I can't seem to get any better. I am also on antidepressant medication and I think I've been on every single one of them at one time or another. This really sounds like a self pity post, but I am just about at the end of my rope and want to ask: what did all of you do to get past your unhealthy behaviors? Other than leave the alcoholic (because I have no reason to do that, since he isn't drinking and isn't abusive)? How do you stop depending on everyone else to make you ok and instead find contentment within yourself? How do you build any self esteem? I am sinking into hopelessness at this point. You all speak with such wisdom and I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks in advance.

jjj111

Carrythatweight, I'm so sorry to hear that you're feeling so down. I was curious to know more about your story and so had a glance at your past posts. Are you married now to the axbf you've posted about in the past? Do you still have concerns about his controlling behavior?

ladyscribbler

I've been pursuing interests that have nothing to do with relationships or other people- mostly writing and photography, but also fitness. I have been on antidepressants in the past, regular exercise helps me to manage my depression without medication. Of course I would take it again if needed, but so far so good.

What are some things you've always wanted to do? Since you've done step work and therapy, it might be time to start allowing yourself to play as well. There's a great book by Julia Cameron called The Artist's Way that encourages a creative approach to recovery. I'm currently doing my second run through the 12 week program and have been really surprised and pleased with the results. I did it a couple of years ago when I still lived with an active alcoholic and I have come a long way since then. Sometimes progress isn't obvious to us as we plod down the road step by painful step, but when we look back we can barely see the place where we started. You may have come farther than you realize.
I found a used copy online a couple of years ago. I've also seen them pretty cheap in used bookstores. I recommend it to anyone who's hit a rut. It really worked for me.
She's a member of a couple of 12 step programs, so you'll recognize some of the terms and concepts she uses.

LexieCat

Hard to say, based on what you've posted, whether the problem really is you (and something you can/should change) or whether it's the relationship. I DID leave my first husband, even though he had long-term sobriety (15 years when I left) and wasn't abusive. He was and is a great guy. I didn't need him to "complete" me, but I did feel after fourteen years of marriage, like I lacked a real connection with him. We did the marriage counseling thing, and it didn't change how I felt. I left because I felt we both deserved better--something more satisfying. He found it, I didn't (at least not in the context of a relationship).

I've discovered that I like having my own space and don't like the demands that a relationship puts on me. Maybe that makes me selfish, but at least I'm not distant with, and disconnected from, someone who is supposed to be a life partner.

This isn't advice--I have no clue what the issue might be in your case. Sounds like you've done all the things you're "supposed" to do. I do think, though, that a marriage should be more than "not awful."

dandylion

CarryThat Weight.....I just glanced back at your last post and noted that My name popped up!! I said that I "smelled narcissism",,,,lol.

A couple of things jump out at me from your post.....
You say that you have no reason to leave him...."because he is not drinking or abusing you" (I assume that you mean hitting you),
(Nobody is telling you to leave, by the way).
BUT if you are not happy or feel unfulfilled in the marriage or in any way feel that it is not meeting your needs.....That is enough reason for anyone to leave. Unhappiness is enough!! You don't need a "politically correct reason".
It is reasonable to expect m arriage to meet certain needs and for the person that you are married to satisfy certain expectations.
If that doesn't happen----you don't have to stay m arried.

These issues can be present completely aside from the alcoholism.
Remove the drinking....and you can still have a train wreck of a marriage.
I divorced my children's father---who was NOT an alcoholic. He was a narcissistic assh888. He never hit me...he never yelled or called me names.......but, I was totally miserable under his tyrany.
When I left him---it was like walking out of an invisible prison....and, finally, I could be myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is possible that this marriage...drinking aside.....does not serve y ou well...

That is all that I am saying......

You might want to consult with Lexie on this one---about being unhappy in a marriage.....

dandylion

dandylion

LOL......lol......lol!!!!!!!!!!! I see tha Lexie already posted while I was busy typing.....
Go figure.......

dandylion

Ladywind

I dont know what to say to you. I think sometimes we can be so wounded by the past it just leaves us flat and sad. Its easier said than done to get over things that have robbed us of our womanly dreams. Know you are not alone in your struggles.Be kind to yourself, noone expects perfection. Look for moments of happiness, like appreciating nature, or a smile from a stranger. Take care

gleefan

Hi carry that weight

I don't have the experience and wisdom of many of the posters as I'm at the beginning of my journey. I can relate to your frustration over seeing the issues in myself but not being able to overcome them. I wanted to share how I finally started to make progress.

I reached out to a woman in the program with strong sobriety. I'd heard her advice in the past. The difference was that day I became willing to follow it! When I told her my problems, she suggested I say the serenity prayer. She also pointed me towards the 3rd step prayer. She reminded me that I can only take my own inventory. She suggested I journal my thoughts.

So .... I prayed for guidance. I directed the energy that I had long focused on others' behavior onto myself.

I still have a long way to go, but I feel happier and healthier than I have in a long time. I've always been fairly insightful but with that simple but powerful advice, I can see my relationships even more clearly than I ever have - including what I need to do differently.

I realize that no one can tell me what I need to do. It's up to me to have the vision to see it, and the confidence to do it.

I hope that helps and that you find the peace you are seeking.

CarryThatWeight

I don't know how to quote, but yes, I did get married to the same guy I posted about last year. We (obviously) ended up getting back together. I did go back and read my previous post... while I am not going to say it's the healthiest relationship in the world, it is a lot better than it was. He has made efforts not to do a lot of those things anymore and I have made efforts not to hurt his feelings (he is very sensitive, as I understand alcoholics can be). He's come so far, but he is still not good at emotionally relating on a deep level. He has walls up and struggles with intimacy (not in the physical sense). In all honesty, I got back into this relationship because I was not strong enough to stay out of it and be alone. However, I believe in my marriage vows and really don't want to leave. I do love him. I don't see that he is the source of my issues at this point; rather that it's my expecting things of him that he can't give--nor could anyone. I have unmet needs I think because I want him to meet ALL of my needs. I hope that makes sense. I also think that marriage is not just what I can get out of it. I know I'm not making a lot of sense. I do appreciate all the input I've gotten and thank you all for taking the time to respond.

Kimmieh

Nobody meets all our needs, but in a relationship, I think, it is important that the most important needs are met. Maybe ask yourself what would be the most pressing thing you would change about him if you could and then imagine a relationship with that need met. How would that affect you and your happiness?

CarryThatWeight

That's an interesting question, because I wasn't happy single, and I'm not happy married. I have heard people say that if you're not content single, you won't be content married. I think there's a lot of truth in that. That's why I think the problem is ME. And I can't seem to fix it. I don't think a different or better relationship will fix it, because nothing has in the past. But to answer your question, I guess it would be nice to have some more emotional connection with him, but that is getting better a little at a time, so I have hope for that aspect.

schnappi99

This is an interesting question, I've been working with desires vs needs.. its so easy to start talking about needs in the abstract.

I was re-listening to a Chuck C recording recently, about how the AA steps could be applied to the family. It got me thinking about what me relationship needs really are. Its not as if she will somehow "make me happy"- thats something I have to do for myself- if I understand Chuck's proposition, its love and service; for free and for fun that does it. Clearly unconditional love does not include being a doormat, nor does it mean I do stuff for her and expect things in return. He proposes a partnership where we do things together for one another not out of expectation of some repayment but because its how one shows love.

It got me thinking how I have demanded emotional connection, mostly in the form of sex- where quality/quantity of sex was my measure of emotional connection. Accordingly, as Chuck puts it- if I'm putting my demands out into the universe, its unlikely I'll be getting fulfillment back. He takes a line much like Emmet Fox does with respect to how one's attitude and actions are reflected in one's environment. I don't have so much of that "hole in my gut that the wind blows through" feeling that Chuck talks about as I used to, which is a big relief.. I have a number of desires that are what they are and thats OK I've other business in hand than pursing them at this point.

I'd propose renewing your alanon program; work another 4th/5th focused only on the single question of emotional fulfillment, maybe with a new sponsor; do it differently, maybe a different format- instead of the 4 column sheet do it from the Alanon Blueprint, or maybe work it in essay form. The idea being "nothing changes if nothing changes"- so change some stuff in your program and see what happens.

Early on I was talking to my buddy who is in AA, about the higher power issue- I was feeling prickly about it.. he had major difficulties with it too when he was new. He passed along what his sponsor told him; "How desperate are you to recover?" Is recovery more or less important than philosophical issues? And, as it turned out for me, just like the 12-and-12 so clearly illustrates- my mind was nowhere near as open as I thought it was. So my answer was "plenty desperate" and I made Determination #1 that no opinion of mine, no prejudice, no attitude or preference would be allowed to get between me and my program; anything in my head that impedes or resists has to go.

redatlanta

Going at another angle - the big red flag in your post to me is your mention of anti-depressants and that you have been on "every single one of them at one time or another".

I notice that you see therapists - who is prescribing your meds is it a psychiatrist another doctor? Would you say you see improvement in your depression with the latest med?

If it were me - I'd revisit that first. That you have been so many (I'll assume because they weren't working) says to me you have possibly been misdiagnosed. Worth looking into (unless I am totally off base which I certainly could be)!

dandylion

CarryThat Weight.....To be honest with you, he sounds like he is emotionallly abusive....from the words you wrote about him.
Of course, if you are determined to stay with him....you are totally free to do that. I understand that you went to him because you are afraid of being alone.
I just would like for you to know that if you ever would like to leave....you don't have to stay just because he has 20yrs. of sobriety.
Sobriety, in itself isn't everything.
There are sober jerks and abusers all over this planet.....

dandylion

CarryThatWeight

Dandylion, I appreciate your words. I really do. I don't feel emotionally abused right now. I am trying to keep the focus on me, not the alcoholic, like they say in al anon. I have plenty to work on in me... I want to be content in any circumstance, whether in a good relationship, bad relationship, single, whatever. And I can't seem to do that, though I am aware of many issues.

Redatlanta, I have recently been to a psychiatrist, who thinks that I have been misdiagnosed. I have been started on a new kind of medication, off the track of the traditional antidepressants. I don't know if I have felt any relief or not. Maybe that's part of the hopelessness... nothing seems to work.

Schnappi 91, thank you so much for your thoughtful post! You have given me many things to think and consider. I do have a blank copy of the blueprint for progress that I pulled off the shelf at your suggestion. I should probably renew my program, as you said. Thank you for sharing a bit of your story.

I have started a new job where I feel pretty stupid every day. I'm sure that is part of this. I know it will get better with time, but the way I feel, it's all I can do to show up. It's hard to not be good at your job. Anyway, I'm sure I'll be embarrassed at this thread later, because it all sounds so pathetic. It was worth it though for all your replies. Thanks so much.

CarryThatWeight

Gleefan, your words do bring me some peace. Thank you for taking the time to share them. Perhaps God does let us hit our bottom before we really mean that 3rd step prayer. And I really am trying to focus on myself and my own recovery. Not what my husband is or is not doing. Like you, I am pretty insightful and now at least I can recognize what I'm doing.

Lexie and ladyscribbler, thank you for your thoughts. I am not wanting to pursue a divorce at this point. I will definitely check out that Artist's Way book.

Kimmieh

But why would you want to be content in bad circumstances? I know what you mean, I think, in terms of perhaps being strong and grounded, but I wonder if the goal should be to be able to live through all scenarios.

When I lived with my axbf, I was on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medication. I thought those were my issues (and of course they mostly are), so I took initiative to be properly medicated. I am thinking now that it would have been good if I had listened in more to really get a sense of how the relationship affected me in ways I was never aware of until it was over and I lived by myself. Mind you, I am still on anti-depressants, so I am not at all anti-meds. But I think when we are in relationships, the issue is never just us. The relationship profoundly affects us, good and bad.

CarryThatWeight

I wanted to revisit this thread I started because so many of you gave your time and wisdom with your responses. So, a lot of light bulbs have come on for me since I wrote this. Yes, I have issues, and yes, I am codependent and all that. I have things with my upbringing that need to be healed. Who doesn't? A lot of you pointed to my relationship as something to examine. Well, things have gone downhill. In retrospect, I think those of you who commented on that were right. I have tried SO hard to be a good wife and to make him happy. No matter what I do though, it isn't enough. I have been talking a lot with my sponsor after each fight I'd have with my husband, and she would point out that in those situations, I had done nothing wrong. I would tell her what he would say to me and she would say, I'm sorry, but that's verbal abuse. I felt like he was picking me apart all the time. I began to look at my unmet needs, and I realized that he wasn't meeting ANY of my needs. He wouldn't even touch me, no kissing, no hugging, no nothing. He didn't want to spend any time with me, but either said that's how marriage is (that I had watched too much television and had unrealistic expectations) or that he just couldn't stand to be around me because I was always "starting drama." Even when I tried very hard not to "start drama" there would be a fight anyway. There was no communication, because he only wanted to talk about superficial things. Forget discussing normal issues couples have. I was living a nightmare, so I just tried harder and harder to be better.

It all came down to me feeling sick in the car and asking him to pull over. He did, on the side of an off ramp, and I got out and was getting sick. I was there for a while, because, well, I was getting sick and you can't exactly control that! He didn't get out of the truck; instead started beeping the horn and yelled out the window for me to get in, people were slowing down on the highway and looking. I was so mad when I got in the truck. He said he was going to take me to the Burger King just down the road and I could stay there as long as I needed. I was so mad I was shaking. I said, I don't freaking care if people are looking. I am SICK. Thanks for asking if I'm ok. He said, well, my company logo is on this truck and it just doesn't look good. People might think I hit you. I fail to see the correlation between violence and me being sick, but whatever. I realized that he doesn't care about me, let alone love me. I'm sick and his concern is for himself, what people might think. I told him that and he started shouting at me that we had had a good day, so I probably did this on purpose just so I could start drama. He started yelling that he wanted out, dear God he wanted out of this marriage. I told him I had nowhere to go. He said we'll get you an apartment. Well, it wasn't the first time he had said these things, but this time I had just had enough. I was out looking for apartments the next day and I found one. He was pretty shocked when I told him, like he didn't believe I would actually do it. Of course, everything is my fault, and we wouldn't be in this situation if it wasn't for me, as he told me today before he stomped out of the house. I am moving October 9th. We are trying to divide up the finances which is stressful. Sometimes we are nice to each other and other times it gets nasty. I am sad about the breaking up of my marriage, but then I realize that it wasn't much of a marriage at all. No companionship, no love, no common ground, no nothing. So there's relief too. Maybe I'm not as bad a person as I have been lead to believe? I think the line has been crossed now and there is no going back. He says he is going to file for divorce. He wanted me to go to the lawyer with him, but I said no. He can have the papers drawn up and get me served. Let him pay. I'll respond when I get them.

Sorry this is so long. I just wanted to let everyone know that you'll probably be seeing me around here again, needing support. Please say a prayer for me that I will be strong, and get out of my pattern of accepting unacceptable behavior. Thanks everyone.

honeypig

CTW, prayers are said and my little lamp is lit for you, lighting the way to better days for you. While I'm sad for all you've gone thru, I'm glad that you've begun to see your path forward more clearly. Please do stay in touch w/all of us here at SR; you know we care.

CarryThatWeight

Thank you, honeypig. That means a lot.