searching peace

I was interested to see if any of you have heard of Kim and Steve Cooper and their program? I wanted to hear any feedback good/bad and any in between. Thanks.

dandylion

Never h eard of them.....

dandylion

searching peace

I stumbled across it when I was researching and I am finding it very helpful to me so far.

LexieCat

Just with a quick google search they claim to "cure" NPD--all without benefit of any professional credentials. I don't trust anything like that--sounds like snake oil to me. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that they patched up their marriage, there is nothing to suggest they have discovered some miraculous "cure" for NPD in others.

searching peace

I do not know if they claim to cure NPD. But they have literature and recordings that discuss things from how Kim helped her husband and it gives his perspective and it seems legitimate to me. She states several places that she is not a trained professional and that this is only her experience. But she goes further than trying to help the narcissist, she helps the codependent work through their anxiety and has tips and suggestions on how to become stronger and self sufficient. I personally have gotten more out of their literature and recordings than I ever got from alanon. They are very clear in what they are and what they are not when you get into the reading material. I have found it very helpful and real. There is a mental exercise for anxiety that I have started using and it has really helped me in my situation.

It may not be "advertised correctly" but I do believe in my humble opinion that there are some very healthy suggestions and tips for codependency recovery and healing. This forum is so large, and I had not heard anyone mention this before. So I was wondering if anyone had tried it or knew anything about anyone that had tried it. My experience is only mine. I am at the point of wanting to find anything and everything that will free me from the grips of codependency and the deep pain that comes from that.

happybeingme

I am glad you have found something that is helpful for you. If I had to guess the reason their site and program isn't talked about is because they do claim to have cured narcissism. That isn't possible. The best and safest advice for someone dealing with a narcissist is to get away from them permanently. As the daughter of a narcissist I agree with that advice.

A good possible program for codependency is CODA. Codependent Anonymous.

NoelleR

"...I do not know if they claim to cure NPD..."

How could you not know; their website is narcissismcured.com
and the first page is all how she cured her husband of his narcissism.

(o:
NoelleR

LexieCat

Yeah, I think it's fine for people to share info about what they found helpful. It's the overstatement of what their "system" will do, setting themselves up as "experts," and the profit angle that make me queasy.

redatlanta

I think if you are finding its helping you that's great. It looks like it addressed a lot about co=dependency. Lots of free stuff on the website to read through. I too doubt narcissism could be cured certainly there could be improvement.

cynical one

I make it a habit not to practice any form of medicine or psychiatry on others. I'm not trained to do so and don't want to do any harm.

Nor do I think I have the right to ask someone to change into who I want them to be. Because I would resent the heck out of someone who wouldn't accept me 'as is' and want me to change for them. In fact, I would be brooming their azz to the curb.

I also don't believe in using manipulation disguised as influence or encouragement to try to get someone to change, especially if they are not aware of whatever program or tactic I was using to do so.

As with many things, I'm sure there is some good in what this couple is saying or selling. And, if you find something that helps you with your own struggles, use it. But, use caution when laypeople say they have a cure for something when the medical community does not.

iGirl66

And what credentials did lay person Bill Wilson have? Or does practicing psychology and medicine by telling people to eschew their meds under the label of spiritual fellowship make it less questionable?

LexieCat

AA actually has a pamphlet stating that it is between the doctor and the alcoholic what medications to take. There are well-meaning nutballs in AA who will tell people not to take their meds. That's their own misguided idea, not AA's.

Moreover, AA does not claim to "cure" alcoholism. And it was the first HUNDRED sober alcoholics who authorized and contributed to the Big Book as a way to quit drinking and live sober, happily. They also freely state that they do not have all the answers. They have been around for 80 years at this point, with many happily sober members who have remained that way for life.

I would hardly compare AA to one couple who claim to "cure" NPD and are making money off that claim.

Kimmieh

Funny, I just had a conversation with a friend yesterday about whether or not narcissists can change. We have both had recent break-ups with men who clearly are narcissists (which we only slowly came to realize). They even have the same name...

We compared notes about these men and their lack of empathy and inability to relate and potential for becoming abusers because they just don't get it how they affect other people (and don't care). They could make all the effort in the world, but they will never truly understand us and our emotions and they will never be able to put themselves into the shoes of other people. I strongly believe that a partnership with a narcissist can probably "function," but it will never be a truly loving and mutually caring relationship. Never ever ever.

That being said, I find it ironic that these two offer advice for narcissism and co-dependency when I can think of nothing more indicative of raging co-dependency than trying to fix a narcissist. It makes my heart hurt to think about this.

Kim Cooper writes this on her website:

I want to cry reading this. It is so so sad to dedicate your life to making things work with someone who will never truly love you beyond what you do for him.

I was with an alcoholic for a long time and tried to fix him and failed. That was hard enough, but when I try to imagine myself with the narcissistic ex (who I still miss very much btw) beyond the honeymoon stage that we were still in, I shudder to imagine what he could have done to my self-esteem. He already did what he wanted and only accommodated me to keep me around because he liked being with me. I know several people who grew up with narcissistic parents, my friend was in a long-term relationship with a narcissist, and the damage is stunning.

My point is that I have a hard time accepting any attempt at trying to "fix" a relationship with a narcissist or even an attempt to make it work as a good thing. Nobody should dedicate their life to fixing another person and especially not a person who will NEVER ever be able to love them the way they deserve. Trying to fix a narcissist and staying with them and making it work knowing full well what they are is one of the most co-dependent things I can think of. It's like saying "hey, here are some good strategies of being a functional co-dependent" rather than working on loving yourself enough to not have to gain your validation from fixing people. Or loving yourself enough to insist on only being around people who love and respect you just the same.

Sorry about the ramble, but this just makes me sad.

iGirl66

A lie believed by one or a million is still a lie. Unfortunately, the well meaning nut balls in this case can kill a vulnerable person and there is no oversight or accountability. The difference between a language and a dialect is an army. The difference between a cult and a religion is numbers and power. The coopers if they last and become accepted will be mainstream given enough time and followers. Still doesn't make them right.

LexieCat

If they develop that many followers, to the point where they are having lots of success, then they are probably onto something. I just haven't seen a groundswell of support for it. I tend to agree with Kimmieh, who suggests it appears to be "normalizing" a dynamic that is unhealthy.

Morning Glory

This thread is not about AA.
Please stay on topic.

schnappi99

Fix 'em with love. If it doesn't work then love 'em harder. Eventually you'll fix them.

Best thing I've ever done for our marriage was to stop demanding/negotiating/guilttripping and let her be. Side benefit : feels a lot better to not be in a constant state of judgement

searching peace

Thank you! And thank you igirl! I was just simply asking if anyone has heard of them or used them. I had absolutely no idea that some of you would Google them and read the surface things and get so angered by it. I never imagined or thought this would create such a heated "discussion". I am not a doctor. I am a woman that loves her husband who happens to be an alcoholic, abusive and who knows what else. But, I still love him. I was researching my ex husband the father of my children when I came across this website. I was trying to find answers to help my children be able to deal with their fathers abandonment. Not about my husband. I did find things within their program that have been extremely helpful to me for anxiety exercises, etc. I have never and would never ever try to change anyone. I love my husband good and bad. It all makes him who he is. I have unconditional love for my husband. It does not mean that I will take his abuse. But I do believe that me nagging him about anything doesn't work. I have never told him to stop drinking. I told him if he wants to stop to please let me know how I can be a support system and encourage him through that. I have asked him to learn about the abuse. My situation is different than a lot of people because I have known him my whole life. I saw first hand how dysfunctional his family was and is. I know where this stems from. But I also know I cannot cure anyone. Only God can do that. I cannot even cute my children's headaches or tummy aches.
My grandfather was an orthopedic surgeon in Akron Ohio. He was very good friends with one of the people that started AA. My Grandfather was cutting else technology back then. And if he and his friend were alive today, I know they would say that this antiquated AA needs to be updated. I also know that my husband went through 3 inpatient rehabs and one out patient that adhere to the AA program. And he is still drinking and probably worse than before. So I am not a big proponent of AA or alanon. I do not know if Kim and Steve coopers program works or even if worked on Steve. I know that she claims she was desperate to keep her family together for the sake of the children and for economic reasons. When you delve into her literature deeper it makes sense. She continually repeats she is not a trained professional and this is just her experience and the techniques she found have helped several other people. She just tried to be supportive and loving to her husband and to help him feel safe and loved. And I have read on psychiatrist web pages that several are changing their minds about narcissist being able to be cured if they want to be cured. Bottom line is I apologize for starting a heated debate over this. I sincerely thought I was asking a simple question. All I know is I love my husband very much. I want a life with him. And if I can do any work on myself or handle the situation better and he will change his mind about the divorce, then I will and want to try anything.

LexieCat

Their website doesn't make me "angry"--merely skeptical and somewhat suspicious. If you find stuff that helps you or your children (or even your husband)--that's great. Just proceed cautiously and be careful not to lose "you" in the process.

iGirl66

Searching dear,
Maybe the secular forum may be more open to various ideas. I didn't realize all we could suggest or talk about was AA and Al A non like we're at an AA meeting. I'm seeing it now though. Find your path, live your truth.