Alcoholic Wife Claims Abuse - Falsely
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 98
I was just reading an article about addiction and relationships. It pointed out a common behavior for addicts--that when they are cornered or questioned about their obvious problems or mistreatments of their loved ones, they often go into offensive mode, and "attack the attacker."
I was thinking maybe this is what your wife is doing by playing the "abuse" card. It's an attack on you to avoid the real problem (her alcoholism), and obviously it's also a manipulative threat to preserve her drinking and keep you from interfering.
I was thinking maybe this is what your wife is doing by playing the "abuse" card. It's an attack on you to avoid the real problem (her alcoholism), and obviously it's also a manipulative threat to preserve her drinking and keep you from interfering.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: virginia
Posts: 237
Originally Posted by KristyCat 
I was just reading an article about addiction and relationships. It pointed out a common behavior for addicts--that when they are cornered or questioned about their obvious problems or mistreatments of their loved ones, they often go into offensive mode, and "attack the attacker."
I was thinking maybe this is what your wife is doing by playing the "abuse" card. It's an attack on you to avoid the real problem (her alcoholism), and obviously it's also a manipulative threat to preserve her drinking and keep you from interfering.
I was thinking maybe this is what your wife is doing by playing the "abuse" card. It's an attack on you to avoid the real problem (her alcoholism), and obviously it's also a manipulative threat to preserve her drinking and keep you from interfering.
One (of many) anecdote: Right before all this high drama started, and i mean RIGHT before (maybe a day or two), I said something like "this can't go on... your being here one day, not the next; the inconsistency...'" and then BOOM!! Out of nowhere came yelling and attacks that totally caught me off guard. It was if if an army was laying in wait for that first "wrong word" from me, and BOOM! The attack was launched.
I do not think there could be a more textbook example of what you just cited, KristyCat.
All this seems to fit the model so well. And as 'Lexi' (and others) have said, her use of the word "attack" fit right into this too. Okay, she is being uber-dramatic (yes, the D-word fits a lot here) when she says I "attack" her. But the sad thing is, she doesn't back off later and say, "Okay, what I meant is it felt like you were attacking me verbally or emotionally". But believe me, she is doing that VERY intentionally.
Tangentially, I will be in a wedding next month where the bride's Dad, an abuser and manipulator extraordinaire, will be present. I have told my wife some stories of how he (at one time, my brother in-law) was not only abusive to my late sister (emotionally and, I found out later, physically), and even controlled me as a young teen somewhat with fear. Let's just say it was so bad once, when I became a young adult, that I almost shot him with an old shotgun in my parents house I had found a shell for, by my then-wife of long ago convinced me not to ruin my own life and instead call the police. Long story short, he spent a few weekends in jail and manipulated my sister back into his life and game and even turned her against me for making him a victim (he never knew - and still doesn't - that I could have killed him that night instead of calling the police).
Okay, back to the point of all this. Maybe my wife needs to know some of this to understand how damned good she has it. I am gentle and passive as most men go. I do have a boiling point and she is only the second person in my life who has actually helped me achieve it. She need to know that having a good old knock-down, drag-out domestic argument with name-calling and yelling is not "domestic abuse". If it is, we are both guilty, and I suspect 90% of all couples are too.
So wrapping up here (for now), it would seem KC hit the nail on the head and, form my perspective, has gone to the core of this stupid, childish, irrational behavior. The accusations in particular. Lash out like a cornered animal when your back (and favorite addiction) is up against the wall. Its like the alcoholism is its own beast and when I poked at it and suggested it "be gone", it awoke and perked up with a vengeance.
Goes to what people here have been trying to tell me in various ways. That the alcoholism is it own "thing", a separate entity from my wife, but it controls her now (for those old enough, think of the demon that inhabited actress Linda Blair's body in The Exorcist, circa mid 1970's).
God, when I think of this, it really IS like I am talking to two different people, now that I think of it. There is the calm, level-headed wife I always thought I knew, and then when the subject comes up about anything related to her drinking - things she has said or done - a completely (and I do mean completely) different "person" comes into the conversation (okay an even earlier famous 70's movie reference - Cybil - the young lady with multiple personalities). Its almost THAT pronounced.
So then, how does this "revelation", this new, clearer vision what ;s what's going on help? I don't know. I guess like alcoholism, recognizing the problem and defining it is the first step to a "cure" (I know nothing of 12-step or other programs, so I am just stating what I have heard about general life situations). I am sure knowing this will help me to deal with it going forward, as I will do my best not to "wake the beast inside", but instead speak in ways that reach the wife I once had. Maybe that will at least be my next step in all this. And maybe I can relax - if only just a little- about being accused of "abuse".
But I will not forget, nor will I be unprepared. I am upset with myself that I did not think to grab the phone or camera when she started to get irrational. On the other hand, I did not expect it - silly me. I think I now know what will provoke the 'beast within' and will be prepared going fwd. In fact, I just got with the 21st century and got an iPhone (but I still refuse to become a slave to Apple's products and services! But that's another topic - lol!).
As for the abuse app (forget the name, but I was asked again recently if I had gotten it), I found it to be overkill for my situation. A simple click of the video cam on the iPhone will work just fine. I don't need to notify neighbors or friends that I am in trouble or anything that severe, and my wife doesn't look at what I am doing with my "device" and look thru my apps so the stealth part is not needed either, but its a great thing and I applaud whomever created it.
Running too long here - sorry. Its just that what 'KC' said, albeit saying in different words what others have probably been trying to tell me in other ways, somehow got my analytical juices flowing and felt like a revelation of great magnitude b/c it was so spot-on as regards my wife's actions.
Update on life for those so kind and thoughtful enough to be here and paying attention and offering their input (or even 'just being here'):
I made it thru "hell week". Three sets of consecutive visitors to our home (NO time in between) for an entire week, including a visitation and service for an in-law who just lost a long and difficult battle with cancer (was my age - too young) capped off by three days with parents in law (not related to in-law who died). I started a very difficult diet and stuck to it thru all that eating and drinking and socializing and stress (I'm down 15 pounds!). In the middle of that span was also my wife's birthday, and yesterday was our anniversary (I brought home a big bunch of her favorite flowers - what a guy, huh?) and our son had last-week projects I helped with and then yesterday was the last day of school and their "graduation" ceremony. I'm still on my diet, having killed myself or anyone around me, and even managed to drop a half-pound after a nice steak and a third of a glass (tiny sips, just for taste) of the most amazing red wine from our "cellar" last night.
Life moves on regardless of ourselves and our problems, doesn't it?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: virginia
Posts: 237
Um, a slight correction:
I left out the word "not" toward the end of my dialogue when I meant to say "having (not) killed myself or anyone around me" thru the aforementioned stressful period. Kinda changes the overall meaning, doesn't it?
I left out the word "not" toward the end of my dialogue when I meant to say "having (not) killed myself or anyone around me" thru the aforementioned stressful period. Kinda changes the overall meaning, doesn't it?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: virginia
Posts: 237
Originally Posted by firebolt
Oh - we've all been here. If you keep it up, it will lead you to a more peaceful existence, no matter what happens with her drinking, your relationship, or your decisions. Promise.
And that is totally OK.
This book, and particularly this passage has helped me so much. I need answers, action, repair and forward momentum NOW, in most aspects of my life. Waiting for answers, results, change, decision and resolution are uncomfortable to say the least, and even physically painful and anxiety riddled for someone like me. The God part works for me - if it doesn't for you, it's whatever your Higher Power is.
This:
You are reading from the book The Language of Letting Go
Waiting
Wait. If the time is not right, the way is not clear, the answer or decision not consistent, wait.
We may feel a sense of urgency. We may want to resolve the issue by doing something - anything now, but that action is not in our best interest.
Living with confusion or unsolved problems is difficult. It is easier to resolve things. But making a decision too soon, doing something before it's time, means we may have to go back and redo it.
If the time is not right, wait. If the way is not clear, do not plunge forward. If the answer or decision feels muddy, wait.
In this new way of life, there is a Guiding Force. We do not ever have to move too soon or move out of harmony. Waiting is an action - a positive, forceful action.
Often, waiting is a God-guided action, one with as much power as a decision, and more power than an urgent, ill-timed decision.
We do not have to pressure ourselves by insisting that we do or know something before it's time. When it is time, we will know. We will move into that time naturally and harmoniously. We will have peace and consistency. We will feel empowered in a way we do not feel today.
Deal with the panic, the urgency, and the fear; do not let them control or dictate decisions.
Waiting isn't easy. It isn't fun. But waiting is often necessary to get what we want. It is not dead time; it is not downtime. The answer will come. The power will come. The time will come. And it will be right.
Today, I will wait, if waiting is the action I need in order to take care of myself. I will know that I am taking a positive, forceful action by waiting until the time is right. God, help me let go of my fear, urgency, and panic. Help me learn the art of waiting until the time is right. Help me learn timing.
From The Language of Letting Go by Melody Beattie ©1990, Hazelden Foundation
And that is totally OK.
This book, and particularly this passage has helped me so much. I need answers, action, repair and forward momentum NOW, in most aspects of my life. Waiting for answers, results, change, decision and resolution are uncomfortable to say the least, and even physically painful and anxiety riddled for someone like me. The God part works for me - if it doesn't for you, it's whatever your Higher Power is.
This:
You are reading from the book The Language of Letting Go
Waiting
Wait. If the time is not right, the way is not clear, the answer or decision not consistent, wait.
We may feel a sense of urgency. We may want to resolve the issue by doing something - anything now, but that action is not in our best interest.
Living with confusion or unsolved problems is difficult. It is easier to resolve things. But making a decision too soon, doing something before it's time, means we may have to go back and redo it.
If the time is not right, wait. If the way is not clear, do not plunge forward. If the answer or decision feels muddy, wait.
In this new way of life, there is a Guiding Force. We do not ever have to move too soon or move out of harmony. Waiting is an action - a positive, forceful action.
Often, waiting is a God-guided action, one with as much power as a decision, and more power than an urgent, ill-timed decision.
We do not have to pressure ourselves by insisting that we do or know something before it's time. When it is time, we will know. We will move into that time naturally and harmoniously. We will have peace and consistency. We will feel empowered in a way we do not feel today.
Deal with the panic, the urgency, and the fear; do not let them control or dictate decisions.
Waiting isn't easy. It isn't fun. But waiting is often necessary to get what we want. It is not dead time; it is not downtime. The answer will come. The power will come. The time will come. And it will be right.
Today, I will wait, if waiting is the action I need in order to take care of myself. I will know that I am taking a positive, forceful action by waiting until the time is right. God, help me let go of my fear, urgency, and panic. Help me learn the art of waiting until the time is right. Help me learn timing.
From The Language of Letting Go by Melody Beattie ©1990, Hazelden Foundation
Many thanks Firebolt.
I will not only refer to them myself but share with 'her' in some other context for a different purpose in her life (unrelated to this discussion).
These will get cut and pasted somewhere I can access them often, and I will order the book asap.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: virginia
Posts: 237
ShootingStar1 said (partial quote):
Even if he cannot articulate it, the tone of your marriage is adversarial and accusative, with the truth hidden and not acknowledged. It is not a happy marriage; it does not model for him what love is between a man and woman; it does not teach him to squarely face conflict and work through it with the other party. He is learning that what is hidden can be left there to fester; that it is dangerous and angry to deal directly with conflict; that people do better when they ignore the truth and the problems than when they face them.
That's what I learned in my childhood, and as a young child and teenager, I believed, without knowing it, that it is better to hide and try to not breathe so that I didn't take up space and no one knew I was there, and avoid being part of the anger. Thirteen is old enough to know a great deal and to find it safer to express little of it.
It takes a lot to come to the point where "keeping the marriage together" no longer is center focus, but sometimes the focus has to move toward what the truth is, whatever the consequence be. Sometimes the way out is to relook at the questions we are asking. What if it was "how can I mentor and model to my son what healthy relationships are?" and "what does my son truly need, and what do I have to do to make sure he grows up emotionally healthy?"
Said with empathy and compassion, keep what you want and ignore the rest.
ShootingStar1
Even if he cannot articulate it, the tone of your marriage is adversarial and accusative, with the truth hidden and not acknowledged. It is not a happy marriage; it does not model for him what love is between a man and woman; it does not teach him to squarely face conflict and work through it with the other party. He is learning that what is hidden can be left there to fester; that it is dangerous and angry to deal directly with conflict; that people do better when they ignore the truth and the problems than when they face them.
That's what I learned in my childhood, and as a young child and teenager, I believed, without knowing it, that it is better to hide and try to not breathe so that I didn't take up space and no one knew I was there, and avoid being part of the anger. Thirteen is old enough to know a great deal and to find it safer to express little of it.
It takes a lot to come to the point where "keeping the marriage together" no longer is center focus, but sometimes the focus has to move toward what the truth is, whatever the consequence be. Sometimes the way out is to relook at the questions we are asking. What if it was "how can I mentor and model to my son what healthy relationships are?" and "what does my son truly need, and what do I have to do to make sure he grows up emotionally healthy?"
Said with empathy and compassion, keep what you want and ignore the rest.
ShootingStar1
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: virginia
Posts: 237
Another "oops" here - I intended to reference ShootingStar1's post, but quoted it and then posted (sorry). So here it is.
Although THIS TOO has probably been stated in more or less subtle (or just different) ways, you just brought a harsh, harsh reality into clear focus. My options are not good.
Address it all and fix it if it can be fixed, or address that its over and move forward (away, one of us) - split up the only home and family my son has known his whole life. Or continue status quo and teach my son the wrong way to deal with problems and the wrong way to live life and the wrong way to have a loving (not) relationship with a woman.
Somehow this truth has never ben so clear than as how you stated it ShootingStar1, and I think I have known it deep inside but never come out directly and said it (but probably HAVE been saying here all along, haven't I?).
My world is rocked.
Of course! This probably explains why my son acts like nothing has happened and "moves on" if conflict is present or an "issue" comes up. It is how we have unwittingly taught him to deal with things. I blame myself for not acknowledging this in my heart and acting on it as I always HAVE attacked problems in my life before. And I blame my wife for imposing this upon me, and worse, my son.
This instills a sense of urgency in me to do something, and yet I just praised a post that advocates "waiting". But I have been waiting....
Much to consider.
Kinda feels like I and my situation have been analyzed and summed up here - truly.
Tears of relief and fear of what I may/must(???) have to do going fwd.
This place and those who have offered words of wisdom and kindness is a godsend, even if not what I want to hear.
Thank you. Thank you.
Bob 'out' for now...
Although THIS TOO has probably been stated in more or less subtle (or just different) ways, you just brought a harsh, harsh reality into clear focus. My options are not good.
Address it all and fix it if it can be fixed, or address that its over and move forward (away, one of us) - split up the only home and family my son has known his whole life. Or continue status quo and teach my son the wrong way to deal with problems and the wrong way to live life and the wrong way to have a loving (not) relationship with a woman.
Somehow this truth has never ben so clear than as how you stated it ShootingStar1, and I think I have known it deep inside but never come out directly and said it (but probably HAVE been saying here all along, haven't I?).
My world is rocked.
Of course! This probably explains why my son acts like nothing has happened and "moves on" if conflict is present or an "issue" comes up. It is how we have unwittingly taught him to deal with things. I blame myself for not acknowledging this in my heart and acting on it as I always HAVE attacked problems in my life before. And I blame my wife for imposing this upon me, and worse, my son.
This instills a sense of urgency in me to do something, and yet I just praised a post that advocates "waiting". But I have been waiting....
Much to consider.
Kinda feels like I and my situation have been analyzed and summed up here - truly.
Tears of relief and fear of what I may/must(???) have to do going fwd.
This place and those who have offered words of wisdom and kindness is a godsend, even if not what I want to hear.
Thank you. Thank you.
Bob 'out' for now...
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Lakeland , Florida
Posts: 9
Wow Bob your story is so much like mine so I feel your pain. I also have been reading and getting some good advise from shrink for men but always having trouble following through.I don't really want to upset my sons life and she knows this which gives her that power.Been to 2 different attorneys who both tell me if I divorce her all that will change is I won't have a place to live. She moved into my house 18 years ago with her son and has never one payed a bill ,bought anything for the house,,Nothing! Her son has 1 room in my house pad locked and doesn't even live here most of the time. Crazy Life Bob,, only advise I could possibly give you is if you do not have to much time invested is to get out and fight for your son.Married more than ten years she takes all you have worked for retirement..pensions..savings,, etc..My Dad told me years ago if I didn't do something my son would lose respect for me as a man,, That's what I am dealing with now with my 14 year old. He is a good kid but when you are dealing with a alcoholic who is out to destroy you they will go to someone who near and dear to turn them against you. Take care Bob good luck!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: virginia
Posts: 237
Wow, uncanny resemblance here. So sorry to see someone else in a similar situation, but maybe "shared stories" can help us each avoid some mistakes going forward??
Thanks for the post and making yourself known to me here. My thoughts and prayers are with you and even more so with your son. My heart breaks to see young innocent souls damaged, especially so needlessly at the hands of someone who either doesn't care about the collateral damage or is too self-involved to even notice.
Your advice - - Until today and another post, I was so worried about how my wife's actions were affecting our son, I never gave much consideration to how I am apparently setting an example of indecisiveness and maybe even weakness or lack of real manhood.
Interesting about the lawyer's words (I've not yet met with one - have kinda put it on back-burner, maybe worried I will hear things I am not ready to cope with(?). I was married before (age 21 to 34), but had no kids. Wife had lots of problems, but deep down she was a fair and decent person who cared about others - even me when I insisted on divorce. She did not "take me to the cleaners". Oddly, my current -- and until last few years presumed-to-be-only wife till death -- wife always seemed so "together" and well-ajusted, and decent. I don't know if its the alcohol or just 'the real her' coming out (or both), but recent indications suggest she would feel perfectly justified destroying me and overlooking the damage it would do to our son.
How can someone use children as "human shields", especially when the children are of their own flesh?
Thanks for the post and making yourself known to me here. My thoughts and prayers are with you and even more so with your son. My heart breaks to see young innocent souls damaged, especially so needlessly at the hands of someone who either doesn't care about the collateral damage or is too self-involved to even notice.
Your advice - - Until today and another post, I was so worried about how my wife's actions were affecting our son, I never gave much consideration to how I am apparently setting an example of indecisiveness and maybe even weakness or lack of real manhood.
Interesting about the lawyer's words (I've not yet met with one - have kinda put it on back-burner, maybe worried I will hear things I am not ready to cope with(?). I was married before (age 21 to 34), but had no kids. Wife had lots of problems, but deep down she was a fair and decent person who cared about others - even me when I insisted on divorce. She did not "take me to the cleaners". Oddly, my current -- and until last few years presumed-to-be-only wife till death -- wife always seemed so "together" and well-ajusted, and decent. I don't know if its the alcohol or just 'the real her' coming out (or both), but recent indications suggest she would feel perfectly justified destroying me and overlooking the damage it would do to our son.
How can someone use children as "human shields", especially when the children are of their own flesh?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: virginia
Posts: 237
LonelyMan said, "I don't really want to upset my sons life and she knows this which gives her that power"
Sounds like we are the proverbial "nice guys who finish last". Its like a person in a social group being loud and forward when he/she knows their audience is more timid and will back down to keep a low profile.
What you said in quote above is what has happened sometimes when we have argued and she has pushed it to where she KNEW I would back down because it was in earshot of our son. More recently (and part of why I ended up here), she has gone to great extremes IN FRONT OF our son, again, surely knowing the pain it would cause me to pull this sh-- in front of him and knowing I would back down.
I hope to God I will have more calm if it happens again and the presence of mind to ask her to leave. Last time it did not escalate, as when I saw it coming, my phrase was "you need to go to bed now", code for, "You are intoxicated and need to back down and discuss this later, i.e. - when sober.
Gotta run - sorry to end abruptly.
Sounds like we are the proverbial "nice guys who finish last". Its like a person in a social group being loud and forward when he/she knows their audience is more timid and will back down to keep a low profile.
What you said in quote above is what has happened sometimes when we have argued and she has pushed it to where she KNEW I would back down because it was in earshot of our son. More recently (and part of why I ended up here), she has gone to great extremes IN FRONT OF our son, again, surely knowing the pain it would cause me to pull this sh-- in front of him and knowing I would back down.
I hope to God I will have more calm if it happens again and the presence of mind to ask her to leave. Last time it did not escalate, as when I saw it coming, my phrase was "you need to go to bed now", code for, "You are intoxicated and need to back down and discuss this later, i.e. - when sober.
Gotta run - sorry to end abruptly.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: virginia
Posts: 237
Originally Posted by ShootingStar1
"Did you ever hit the nail on the head: This marriage IS so broken. I have realized I am bound and determined to keep a family unless she just continues or gets worse. Its infrequent enough (or had been), so I am hoping some of my calm and personal improvements will help me deal better, and maybe, just maybe will inspire her to follow suit.
Having let go some - distancing myself more and being more clear about things via input here, counseling, etc. has made a big difference so far, but the more I look at what's happening, the more I think, I wonder, how much of this has been under the surface that I have never noticed, or maybe even been hidden. But mainly I spend menial labor time (yard work) running over scenarios of counseling and realizing it would take years and years and probably never pan out. We would have to start fresh from the current place, which isn't a good one. Just going one day to the next for now . . ."
Bob, having been the daughter of an alcoholic father, and having lived with an alcholic husband and seen the effects on our children and step-children, I think your son knows far more than you can imagine.
Even if he cannot articulate it, the tone of your marriage is adversarial and accusative, with the truth hidden and not acknowledged. It is not a happy marriage; it does not model for him what love is between a man and woman; it does not teach him to squarely face conflict and work through it with the other party. He is learning that what is hidden can be left there to fester; that it is dangerous and angry to deal directly with conflict; that people do better when they ignore the truth and the problems than when they face them.
That's what I learned in my childhood, and as a young child and teenager, I believed, without knowing it, that it is better to hide and try to not breathe so that I didn't take up space and no one knew I was there, and avoid being part of the anger. Thirteen is old enough to know a great deal and to find it safer to express little of it.
It takes a lot to come to the point where "keeping the marriage together" no longer is center focus, but sometimes the focus has to move toward what the truth is, whatever the consequence be. Sometimes the way out is to relook at the questions we are asking. What if it was "how can I mentor and model to my son what healthy relationships are?" and "what does my son truly need, and what do I have to do to make sure he grows up emotionally healthy?"
Said with empathy and compassion, keep what you want and ignore the rest.
ShootingStar1
Having let go some - distancing myself more and being more clear about things via input here, counseling, etc. has made a big difference so far, but the more I look at what's happening, the more I think, I wonder, how much of this has been under the surface that I have never noticed, or maybe even been hidden. But mainly I spend menial labor time (yard work) running over scenarios of counseling and realizing it would take years and years and probably never pan out. We would have to start fresh from the current place, which isn't a good one. Just going one day to the next for now . . ."
Bob, having been the daughter of an alcoholic father, and having lived with an alcholic husband and seen the effects on our children and step-children, I think your son knows far more than you can imagine.
Even if he cannot articulate it, the tone of your marriage is adversarial and accusative, with the truth hidden and not acknowledged. It is not a happy marriage; it does not model for him what love is between a man and woman; it does not teach him to squarely face conflict and work through it with the other party. He is learning that what is hidden can be left there to fester; that it is dangerous and angry to deal directly with conflict; that people do better when they ignore the truth and the problems than when they face them.
That's what I learned in my childhood, and as a young child and teenager, I believed, without knowing it, that it is better to hide and try to not breathe so that I didn't take up space and no one knew I was there, and avoid being part of the anger. Thirteen is old enough to know a great deal and to find it safer to express little of it.
It takes a lot to come to the point where "keeping the marriage together" no longer is center focus, but sometimes the focus has to move toward what the truth is, whatever the consequence be. Sometimes the way out is to relook at the questions we are asking. What if it was "how can I mentor and model to my son what healthy relationships are?" and "what does my son truly need, and what do I have to do to make sure he grows up emotionally healthy?"
Said with empathy and compassion, keep what you want and ignore the rest.
ShootingStar1
Originally Posted by lonelyman
Wow Bob your story is so much like mine so I feel your pain. I also have been reading and getting some good advise from shrink for men but always having trouble following through.I don't really want to upset my sons life and she knows this which gives her that power.Been to 2 different attorneys who both tell me if I divorce her all that will change is I won't have a place to live. She moved into my house 18 years ago with her son and has never one payed a bill ,bought anything for the house,,Nothing! Her son has 1 room in my house pad locked and doesn't even live here most of the time. Crazy Life Bob,, only advise I could possibly give you is if you do not have to much time invested is to get out and fight for your son.Married more than ten years she takes all you have worked for retirement..pensions..savings,, etc..My Dad told me years ago if I didn't do something my son would lose respect for me as a man,, That's what I am dealing with now with my 14 year old. He is a good kid but when you are dealing with a alcoholic who is out to destroy you they will go to someone who near and dear to turn them against you. Take care Bob good luck!
LonelyMan, if I could offer a touch of reassurance (if you could call it that), age 14 is a time when just about ANY son will call their father's manhood and everything else he may stand for into question. I know I did with my own Dad (poor guy - lol!). Remember it is their job as teens to do this to us, so DO NOT SHOULDER SO MUCH OF THE BLAME; A significant amount of this was bound to happen no matter your life or marriage circumstances. And by the way, YES, I am looking in the mirror when offering these "words of wisdom", as I need to heed them myself! Our son is at a wonderful, small middle school for boys (kinda unique), so we have peers see the same in their like-age boys too.
Just make sure it is clear (actions more than words) that your son knows you love him, care about him, even if he is a pain in the ass and questions everything you say (again, talking to myself here too)! Hope seeing my trials and dealing with them may be of some help. In some way, I have some additional comfort knowing someone is going thru this at the same time, not that I want that for ANYONE else, mind you.
Best -
Bob
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: virginia
Posts: 237
One last post for now - and needing some insight from alcoholics, RA's, or addicts of any type, if I may be so bold as to ask:
I have been as measured as possible (given the emotional turmoil involved) in my approach to all this since coming here, but I am so impatient and feeling a need to do something soon - and still I don't know what that something should be. Regardless of (or in addition to) that, I have to say:
Having 'her' lay around the last few days with clearly excruciating back pain (pinched nerve? hard to imagine its a fake, but God only knows any more) and my holding down the fort and son's needs yet again since all our company left is one thing, but seeing a bottle of vodka go from an inch up from the bottom to almost half-full while I was gone this afternoon really chafes my hide badly.
"WHAT!?!", you might say. "How does the level go UP?"
Well, I saw a large bottle of her favorite alcohol in our liquor cabinet and made note of the level yesterday midday, wondering if she would actually drink that nasty stuff during the day. As of that early evening, it appears she does. The level had indeed gone down (while she was only "showing" her recent customary white wine with ice (yuck)). Seems she double-dips. Go figure.
But coming home today and seeing the vodka bottle had actually been refilled (not the first time) to about one-third full just infuriated me. I mean, just look at this!! When I leave, she gets busy around the house hiding and moving her stashes (one I observed quite accidentally under her bath sink yesterday). Seems she can bend over enough to hide booze and have the presence of mind to move it about the house and even pull from one stash, get out a funnel, and move to another bottle to the one in the cabinet. (NOt to mention, these have the "easy pour" tops which require removal and replacement to move liquid from one to another. My God, what a chore it has become for her to keep up this habit!
I have moved past the insults to my intelligence with this childish and sad behavior, but the lying aspect is another thing entirely. So I guess my question is this:
Should I assume that if she is this committed to lying about one thing, does it not stand to reason that she is well along the "slippery slope" of lies that she could be living all kinds of other "double lives" that I know nothing about? I don't suspect an affair, but somehow wouldn't be shocked if there have been indiscretions. And what else does she do? After reading the "Scapegoating" article, I was almost dumbstruck by the similarities. So often she has had me back on my heels defending myself from absurd accusations that I thought she really meant (as crazy as they sounded), and putting so much responsibility for things gone wrong on me, I didn't even notice or think it was a "technique". Maybe she doesn't even fully or consciously realize it. (I now firmly believe the false accusations are part of this "scapegoating" mentality - shifting of responsibility through blame and shame - but I also still know they could become something much more serious.
But even putting the accusations and shaming aside, I feel betrayed by the constant lies I am most often not even aware of going on right under my nose. Should I feel betrayed? Yes, yes, I am sure this probably chapter one in Alanon, but it is just sinking in - I mean REALLY sinking in to my thick skull for the first time. I have always been too busy or thinking of better or more important things to play such games or spend my life being wary of them. Naive? Yeah, probably. Trusting of those I love? Absolutely.
I think I know the answer to whether most alcoholics, once they cross that line of dishonesty to themselves and loved ones about their addiction, keep crossing it in other areas. I suspect they do, either frequently or always. Please, someone correct me if I am wrong. Maybe its a case by case thing - dependent upon each individual - - and maybe it isn't. If there is a clear answer, I would very much like to hear it!
I personally believe that once a person has the ability to create and then maintain a lie about something - especially something that requires ongoing deception, its not much of a stretch then to lie and deceive in other areas. Can I assume this to be true or is my logic flawed? Are there alcoholics/addicts out there who have actually limited their deception exclusively to their addiction, or do the lies always enter and take part in other areas of life?
Still angry and frustrated - and its only getting worse; Or should I say, I did not realize just how bad it had become. I want to just say, "Get your sorry a-- in the car! I am taking you to get this fixed once and for all". How do I just put my foot down and say enough is enough, damn the consequences. Go ahead, accuse me, throw me in jail, spread lies about me. At least we would be going somewhere with all this, not pitifully treading water day after day,month after month!
But I'll shut up (finally) and stick with my question and leave the new rant for another time. I have to go. Getting too frustrated - which is probably a good thing. That's usually when I take firm and decisive action in my life.
I have been as measured as possible (given the emotional turmoil involved) in my approach to all this since coming here, but I am so impatient and feeling a need to do something soon - and still I don't know what that something should be. Regardless of (or in addition to) that, I have to say:
Having 'her' lay around the last few days with clearly excruciating back pain (pinched nerve? hard to imagine its a fake, but God only knows any more) and my holding down the fort and son's needs yet again since all our company left is one thing, but seeing a bottle of vodka go from an inch up from the bottom to almost half-full while I was gone this afternoon really chafes my hide badly.
"WHAT!?!", you might say. "How does the level go UP?"
Well, I saw a large bottle of her favorite alcohol in our liquor cabinet and made note of the level yesterday midday, wondering if she would actually drink that nasty stuff during the day. As of that early evening, it appears she does. The level had indeed gone down (while she was only "showing" her recent customary white wine with ice (yuck)). Seems she double-dips. Go figure.
But coming home today and seeing the vodka bottle had actually been refilled (not the first time) to about one-third full just infuriated me. I mean, just look at this!! When I leave, she gets busy around the house hiding and moving her stashes (one I observed quite accidentally under her bath sink yesterday). Seems she can bend over enough to hide booze and have the presence of mind to move it about the house and even pull from one stash, get out a funnel, and move to another bottle to the one in the cabinet. (NOt to mention, these have the "easy pour" tops which require removal and replacement to move liquid from one to another. My God, what a chore it has become for her to keep up this habit!
I have moved past the insults to my intelligence with this childish and sad behavior, but the lying aspect is another thing entirely. So I guess my question is this:
Should I assume that if she is this committed to lying about one thing, does it not stand to reason that she is well along the "slippery slope" of lies that she could be living all kinds of other "double lives" that I know nothing about? I don't suspect an affair, but somehow wouldn't be shocked if there have been indiscretions. And what else does she do? After reading the "Scapegoating" article, I was almost dumbstruck by the similarities. So often she has had me back on my heels defending myself from absurd accusations that I thought she really meant (as crazy as they sounded), and putting so much responsibility for things gone wrong on me, I didn't even notice or think it was a "technique". Maybe she doesn't even fully or consciously realize it. (I now firmly believe the false accusations are part of this "scapegoating" mentality - shifting of responsibility through blame and shame - but I also still know they could become something much more serious.
But even putting the accusations and shaming aside, I feel betrayed by the constant lies I am most often not even aware of going on right under my nose. Should I feel betrayed? Yes, yes, I am sure this probably chapter one in Alanon, but it is just sinking in - I mean REALLY sinking in to my thick skull for the first time. I have always been too busy or thinking of better or more important things to play such games or spend my life being wary of them. Naive? Yeah, probably. Trusting of those I love? Absolutely.
I think I know the answer to whether most alcoholics, once they cross that line of dishonesty to themselves and loved ones about their addiction, keep crossing it in other areas. I suspect they do, either frequently or always. Please, someone correct me if I am wrong. Maybe its a case by case thing - dependent upon each individual - - and maybe it isn't. If there is a clear answer, I would very much like to hear it!
I personally believe that once a person has the ability to create and then maintain a lie about something - especially something that requires ongoing deception, its not much of a stretch then to lie and deceive in other areas. Can I assume this to be true or is my logic flawed? Are there alcoholics/addicts out there who have actually limited their deception exclusively to their addiction, or do the lies always enter and take part in other areas of life?
Still angry and frustrated - and its only getting worse; Or should I say, I did not realize just how bad it had become. I want to just say, "Get your sorry a-- in the car! I am taking you to get this fixed once and for all". How do I just put my foot down and say enough is enough, damn the consequences. Go ahead, accuse me, throw me in jail, spread lies about me. At least we would be going somewhere with all this, not pitifully treading water day after day,month after month!
But I'll shut up (finally) and stick with my question and leave the new rant for another time. I have to go. Getting too frustrated - which is probably a good thing. That's usually when I take firm and decisive action in my life.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I could do ANYTHING, no matter how painful, if I needed my alcohol. Here's what you don't understand. As much pain as her back may truly be in (no idea whether that's a cover for being too blitzed to move around), she WILL still manage to get her needed fix. I would do that, regardless of whether someone was around to watch me or not. It is a physical NEED at this point, and believe me, if she didn't have it she would be in more pain than she already is (again, assuming an injured back).
So have a little compassion for someone who that desperately needs something. I don't know who your wife is, deep down (and maybe you--and even she--don't know anymore), but lying about drinking is absolutely part of the disease. I was in law enforcement, honest as the day is long, but I would lie, lie, lie about my drinking. I would never cheat on my taxes or cheat on my partner, shoplift or steal (maybe because I was fortunate enough to have money to drink), but I would lie and I would hide my drinking.
So have a little compassion for someone who that desperately needs something. I don't know who your wife is, deep down (and maybe you--and even she--don't know anymore), but lying about drinking is absolutely part of the disease. I was in law enforcement, honest as the day is long, but I would lie, lie, lie about my drinking. I would never cheat on my taxes or cheat on my partner, shoplift or steal (maybe because I was fortunate enough to have money to drink), but I would lie and I would hide my drinking.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I agree with Lexie. Lying about the booze is part of the disease. The mental illness part is completely separate, and I do believe she has mental illness. Just my take on it.
I know just what you mean about feeling the need to "do" something. I hope that you prepare for things in that you have a stash of cash that no one knows about. That is one of the most common things you hear issues with. Hopefully you won't need it, but if you do it's there.
I felt like I lived for the last year or so of my marriage waiting for "the shoe to drop" so to speak. That did happen, and believe me, I knew when it did. In the mean time, I lived my own life. I was bound and determined not to let the situation make me feel crazy. I did things with my children. I went on trips with friends and family. It's really important that you don't just shut down during this time. Make sure your children know you are there and be open and honest.
I found out later in counseling that my children were becoming frustrated with me b/c they felt I was hiding things and not telling them the truth. In reality, I THOUGHT I was protecting them. I also during that time started seeing a counselor who specializes in helping families with addiction. This made me strong enough so that I knew no matter what happened I would be ok and could mentally and physically be there for my children.
XXX
I know just what you mean about feeling the need to "do" something. I hope that you prepare for things in that you have a stash of cash that no one knows about. That is one of the most common things you hear issues with. Hopefully you won't need it, but if you do it's there.
I felt like I lived for the last year or so of my marriage waiting for "the shoe to drop" so to speak. That did happen, and believe me, I knew when it did. In the mean time, I lived my own life. I was bound and determined not to let the situation make me feel crazy. I did things with my children. I went on trips with friends and family. It's really important that you don't just shut down during this time. Make sure your children know you are there and be open and honest.
I found out later in counseling that my children were becoming frustrated with me b/c they felt I was hiding things and not telling them the truth. In reality, I THOUGHT I was protecting them. I also during that time started seeing a counselor who specializes in helping families with addiction. This made me strong enough so that I knew no matter what happened I would be ok and could mentally and physically be there for my children.
XXX
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: virginia
Posts: 237
Lexie & Hopeful4, super mega thanks for the quick responses and perspectives.
First off, she is definitely in a lot of pain (or doing one hell of a job acting). No, she is not impaired to the point of not getting up - well, not initially. She may be now due to her self-anesthetization. This is 24/7 pain, and has been for almost a week now (she has been "down" with back pain (sciatica?) before). The problem on top of the problems is she uses alcohol not just to "get by" now, but for pain relief (you nailed it again LexieCat) . I hadn't thought about the pain being worse WITHOUT alcohol, but I imagine you are right. I once had a habit (luckily not a full-on addiction) with a Vicodin some years ago and remember how bad days were when I didn't have it before I finally had a joint replacement to fix the source of the pain.
Wife is taking muscle relaxers and NSAIDS which are both fine and prescribed for this problem, but drinking on top of it, not so much. Add a Tramadol or two (opiate imitator (???)) and you have a recipe for a lot of sleep and intoxication. Ahh, just what I need now that summer is here and my son is home. Sound selfish? Sorry. (insert fake diabolical laughter). This IS about me now. Me me me.
Yeah, I hope I can help her get better (alc-ism), but she is the one who screwed herself up, has blamed ME for it (oh, the emotional pain you have made me endure!), and is screwing up her own life and mine and my son's, so she can fix herself while I do my damnedest to resume my life with my son and try to keep things as normal or upbeat and happy as possible for him as I can. I need it and he does too.
I am going to leave town tomorrow and he doesn't know it yet but the two of us are going to have a fun couple of days acting like young men on the road while I also tend to some out of town business at my leisure. Maybe buy or do something absurd, who knows (insert crazed lunatic laughter here). Its the first week of summer vacation and I am ready for a break and some fun too. Not sure I remember how to do the latter, but I'll bet it is akin to riding a bike - - you never forget
Summers are truly special in my mind's eye and in my childhood memories, and I want (need) it to be so again, and so does my boy who turns 14 soon and looks almost straight across into my 6' tall eyes! Big guy looking more and more mature every day, but still young heart (have to keep reminding myself this).
Anyhow, Mom has enough flexibility to hide vodka under sinks, to retrieve vodka from her stashes and raise and lower liquor bottle levels, so Mom can clearly fend for herself a few days, even if it isn't as easy as laying on the couch, back of hand on forehead, and having the "house" care for itself (or 'go to pot', as I am sure she thinks it is). And I know she thinks I am "just mad" (I am mad) and being calloused, even though I do make dinner and get her things when she asks (she doesn't ask much). Even though she would probably tell her friends I am heartless and not being "very nice" b/c I am not taking care of her with a cheerful and sympathetic demeanor, its not true - - well, at least the "heartless" part isn't. But why should I care what she thinks? Her opinion holds no water with me. NOt much of anything she says at present does. Not after claims of being "attacked". Not after the drama in front of our son.
Now, back to the lying...
I was married once before (or as I like to say, 'in another life, x, y, or z happened...') and the 'ex' was pretty pathological (yes, as in pathological liar - actually diagnosed as such by a reputable, esteemed Psychiatrist). I felt so betrayed after trusting her ridiculous but somehow feasible explanations when things didn't add up over the years. Just dumb little things, but eventually it was bigger. Maybe I am more sensitive than usual because of this -- or maybe I am sensitive when someone close to me that I trust betrays that trust because I am NORMAL -- but all I know is that I feel betrayed. If its "just" the alcohol, maybe there is some hope for recovery or some semblance of a relationship and unbroken home. But for now, it feels like she looks me in the eye and simply lies without a second thought. Lexie, I will try to have bit more compassion, but it ain't easy!! No easier for me to swallow than it is for her to go a day not swallowing any booze.
I do believe I am doing my best...
First off, she is definitely in a lot of pain (or doing one hell of a job acting). No, she is not impaired to the point of not getting up - well, not initially. She may be now due to her self-anesthetization. This is 24/7 pain, and has been for almost a week now (she has been "down" with back pain (sciatica?) before). The problem on top of the problems is she uses alcohol not just to "get by" now, but for pain relief (you nailed it again LexieCat) . I hadn't thought about the pain being worse WITHOUT alcohol, but I imagine you are right. I once had a habit (luckily not a full-on addiction) with a Vicodin some years ago and remember how bad days were when I didn't have it before I finally had a joint replacement to fix the source of the pain.
Wife is taking muscle relaxers and NSAIDS which are both fine and prescribed for this problem, but drinking on top of it, not so much. Add a Tramadol or two (opiate imitator (???)) and you have a recipe for a lot of sleep and intoxication. Ahh, just what I need now that summer is here and my son is home. Sound selfish? Sorry. (insert fake diabolical laughter). This IS about me now. Me me me.
Yeah, I hope I can help her get better (alc-ism), but she is the one who screwed herself up, has blamed ME for it (oh, the emotional pain you have made me endure!), and is screwing up her own life and mine and my son's, so she can fix herself while I do my damnedest to resume my life with my son and try to keep things as normal or upbeat and happy as possible for him as I can. I need it and he does too.
I am going to leave town tomorrow and he doesn't know it yet but the two of us are going to have a fun couple of days acting like young men on the road while I also tend to some out of town business at my leisure. Maybe buy or do something absurd, who knows (insert crazed lunatic laughter here). Its the first week of summer vacation and I am ready for a break and some fun too. Not sure I remember how to do the latter, but I'll bet it is akin to riding a bike - - you never forget
Summers are truly special in my mind's eye and in my childhood memories, and I want (need) it to be so again, and so does my boy who turns 14 soon and looks almost straight across into my 6' tall eyes! Big guy looking more and more mature every day, but still young heart (have to keep reminding myself this). Anyhow, Mom has enough flexibility to hide vodka under sinks, to retrieve vodka from her stashes and raise and lower liquor bottle levels, so Mom can clearly fend for herself a few days, even if it isn't as easy as laying on the couch, back of hand on forehead, and having the "house" care for itself (or 'go to pot', as I am sure she thinks it is). And I know she thinks I am "just mad" (I am mad) and being calloused, even though I do make dinner and get her things when she asks (she doesn't ask much). Even though she would probably tell her friends I am heartless and not being "very nice" b/c I am not taking care of her with a cheerful and sympathetic demeanor, its not true - - well, at least the "heartless" part isn't. But why should I care what she thinks? Her opinion holds no water with me. NOt much of anything she says at present does. Not after claims of being "attacked". Not after the drama in front of our son.
Now, back to the lying...
I was married once before (or as I like to say, 'in another life, x, y, or z happened...') and the 'ex' was pretty pathological (yes, as in pathological liar - actually diagnosed as such by a reputable, esteemed Psychiatrist). I felt so betrayed after trusting her ridiculous but somehow feasible explanations when things didn't add up over the years. Just dumb little things, but eventually it was bigger. Maybe I am more sensitive than usual because of this -- or maybe I am sensitive when someone close to me that I trust betrays that trust because I am NORMAL -- but all I know is that I feel betrayed. If its "just" the alcohol, maybe there is some hope for recovery or some semblance of a relationship and unbroken home. But for now, it feels like she looks me in the eye and simply lies without a second thought. Lexie, I will try to have bit more compassion, but it ain't easy!! No easier for me to swallow than it is for her to go a day not swallowing any booze.
I do believe I am doing my best...
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 845
Bob, have you ever heard of the Karpman drama triangle? It's a concept that describes how people interact in dysfunctional relationships. There are three points on the triangle: victim, rescuer, and persecutor. People often travel between these roles in a dysfunctional relationship, and the other person in the relationship also travels around the triangle. The key to healing, the theory goes, is to become aware of your cycles around the triangle and find ways to break the cycle and get to a place of serenity. Maybe it would be helpful to you to start paying attention to when you slip into these roles?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 845
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: virginia
Posts: 237
NED: Think it, and so it shall happen...
Indeed I was accused of not caring or being "sympathetic enough" today. I know my wife. In fact she went as far as to call me selfish. This is what she does when I show ANY inkling of doing something for myself and she would rather me be thinking about her. You know, "How dare you not ALWAYS be thinking of others!". B---h. So I made a list of what I have been doing the last four days she has been "managing pain" and emailed it to her, suggesting she probably was only angry from being in pain and surely didn't mean any of the nonsense. I even welcomed a verbal reversal of the "selfish" comment, should she feel the need...
What a bunch of hooey.
Counselor reminded me of a place I had completely forgotten about in all the hustle and bustle of company, end of school, downed wife, friend sleepover that turned into a 4-day event that I finally put an end to (prompting wife's assertion I was selfish). No, just want a little quiet time in my home and ability to communicate and make some plans with my family. ANyway, its a place that takes in addicts/alcoholics locally and has an "intensive" out-patient program. I am so ready to do something, i am anticipating grabbing my wife by the hand and dragging her there (okay, driving, but still thinking hard about just doing it - no more talk or thought).
Suspicions coming in too (yes, there's more!). Wife looking at houses for sale nearby. We sometimes look at real estate for curiosity's sake, but this seemed odd. Its always been vacation cottages for sale or rent. No word of vacation since Xmas despite my prompting to discuss it - - always a diversion. Is she planning to take off before I banish her "little friend", the proverbial monkey on her back???
Indeed I was accused of not caring or being "sympathetic enough" today. I know my wife. In fact she went as far as to call me selfish. This is what she does when I show ANY inkling of doing something for myself and she would rather me be thinking about her. You know, "How dare you not ALWAYS be thinking of others!". B---h. So I made a list of what I have been doing the last four days she has been "managing pain" and emailed it to her, suggesting she probably was only angry from being in pain and surely didn't mean any of the nonsense. I even welcomed a verbal reversal of the "selfish" comment, should she feel the need...
What a bunch of hooey.
Counselor reminded me of a place I had completely forgotten about in all the hustle and bustle of company, end of school, downed wife, friend sleepover that turned into a 4-day event that I finally put an end to (prompting wife's assertion I was selfish). No, just want a little quiet time in my home and ability to communicate and make some plans with my family. ANyway, its a place that takes in addicts/alcoholics locally and has an "intensive" out-patient program. I am so ready to do something, i am anticipating grabbing my wife by the hand and dragging her there (okay, driving, but still thinking hard about just doing it - no more talk or thought).
Suspicions coming in too (yes, there's more!). Wife looking at houses for sale nearby. We sometimes look at real estate for curiosity's sake, but this seemed odd. Its always been vacation cottages for sale or rent. No word of vacation since Xmas despite my prompting to discuss it - - always a diversion. Is she planning to take off before I banish her "little friend", the proverbial monkey on her back???
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 845
Bob, you seem like a smart, analytical guy who likes a mental challenge, and I noticed you liked my post. Any interest in puzzling through which roles you're taking on in your latest post? Which roles she's assuming? Any thoughts on how you might do things differently in order to stay in serenity and avoid those roles?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2015
Location: virginia
Posts: 237
Originally Posted by jjj111
Bob, you seem like a smart, analytical guy who likes a mental challenge, and I noticed you liked my post. Any interest in puzzling through which roles you're taking on in your latest post? Which roles she's assuming? Any thoughts on how you might do things differently in order to stay in serenity and avoid those roles?
Yeah, I read the first few paragraphs and kinda sped thru the rest when I should have been tending to some business, so I will have to go back and get comfortable with how the roles work. It seemed a little confusing how they change - which is how i feel when I converse with my wife. I think in a 5 minute convo, we dance around the triangle like moths around a bright porch light on a mid-summer night! Sad really.
As for thought son staying out of the vicious cycle: Be as uninvolved as possible. But is that a mature or reasoned way to go? When she's drinking, it definitely is, as would agree most or all who have weighed in here. And THAT's the problem. Like most homes, things are going on during the day, and even though I am semi-retired and have an in-home office, most time we have to sit down and talk is in the evening - - and that's when Dr. Jekyll becomes Mrs. Hyde and all bets are off.
"JJ", I think its a worthy "challenge" and I will add it to my list, the plethora of things to work on, which rivals Santa's list on Christmas eve already. If only I could just wiggle my nose, call out to my magical reindeer, and have it all done!
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
