This is NOT living
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
More will be revealed. I too wondered about the Benzos. I have a friend who is on a med for RLS and it is not a Benzo. I think doctors hand that stuff out like candy, it's quite alarming.
If there are some missing, there are some missing. Unless the pill fairy took them than she is taking more that prescribed. That is the cold hard fact. I would never suggest you be the keeper of her pills except for the fact she said it.
If there are some missing, there are some missing. Unless the pill fairy took them than she is taking more that prescribed. That is the cold hard fact. I would never suggest you be the keeper of her pills except for the fact she said it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 115
One of the issues with both of us is that my 'cycle' of emotions is much shorter than hers. Meaning, I get over things within 30 mins or less, I want issues fixed within minutes. And I expect others to do the same.
My inclination always is to nicely and gentley 'MAKE her understand she has an issue'. But it ends up being more like 'rubbing her face in it and forcing her to accept the fact that she is an ADDICT'. And it never goes anywhere. If anything it makes matters worse.
She has been coming around and has gotten a lot better. And the MC has helped a lot. But she has cancelled the sessions 3 times. And since I want it to move faster I get frustrated and take this as an act which is an indicition that I or our marriage doesn't mean anything to her. And I know I am taking it personally.
My inclination always is to nicely and gentley 'MAKE her understand she has an issue'. But it ends up being more like 'rubbing her face in it and forcing her to accept the fact that she is an ADDICT'. And it never goes anywhere. If anything it makes matters worse.
She has been coming around and has gotten a lot better. And the MC has helped a lot. But she has cancelled the sessions 3 times. And since I want it to move faster I get frustrated and take this as an act which is an indicition that I or our marriage doesn't mean anything to her. And I know I am taking it personally.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 115
hopeful4u, she poured the bottle into the sink. I don't know if the pills were all there, if the pills were in fact the same pills....etc. I didn't ask anything and I at this point will disengage. But basically I got fired from my job as a 'pill counter'.
Its the hardest thing to walk around and act nice and loving carrying all this inside my head. I know this is a good oppurtunity for me to work on my character defects but its exhausting and draining.
Its the hardest thing to walk around and act nice and loving carrying all this inside my head. I know this is a good oppurtunity for me to work on my character defects but its exhausting and draining.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
I think it might be helpful, instead of thinking about character defects, to think about trust - what it means, how it feels, how it is expressed, how it is built and how it is torn down...
I remember years ago having a young typist work for me who was terribly nervous and performed abominably. I finally figured out that he literally was not keeping his hands in the right position on the keyboard, which obviously led to lots of wrong letters. I told my boss I had figured out what the kid was doing wrong. My boss said "Why is that important? You don't need to know what is wrong, you need to figure out what will work and go there with him".
Maybe a dialogue with your wife about trust and how you each feel would help. You'd want to explore when what you did made her trust you, and understand what you could do differently, better to gain trust. And the same for her.
ShootingStar1
I remember years ago having a young typist work for me who was terribly nervous and performed abominably. I finally figured out that he literally was not keeping his hands in the right position on the keyboard, which obviously led to lots of wrong letters. I told my boss I had figured out what the kid was doing wrong. My boss said "Why is that important? You don't need to know what is wrong, you need to figure out what will work and go there with him".
Maybe a dialogue with your wife about trust and how you each feel would help. You'd want to explore when what you did made her trust you, and understand what you could do differently, better to gain trust. And the same for her.
ShootingStar1
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,388
You know, what you are describing reminds me of this scenario:
Lets say my AH says, "As a sign of good will, I want you to every day check how much I drank and notify me if you notice I drank more ounces than . . . quantity irrelevant."
Of course he is going to drink more, he is an addict, cannot control himself. I expect that he will drink more. I expect that he will say, "Hey, you must have done something with that booze, wife, because I possibly could not have drank that much." And then of course, he goes on defensive.
Pills are in this case no different than alcohol. Benzos you say? They are highly addictive! Where I come from, they generally are not prescribed for more than 10 days!
So what role are you exactly playing and why? You cannot make them understand anything! Yelling, screaming, crying, being nice, threatening. It will not go anywhere. Actually, she might even start blaming you. There are so many great stickies at the top of this forum. One of them describes addiction/alcoholism as a play in three acts and four actors. You are one of the actors.
Detachment with love is an amazing concept that is there to help you to cope in a productive manner.
Lets say my AH says, "As a sign of good will, I want you to every day check how much I drank and notify me if you notice I drank more ounces than . . . quantity irrelevant."
Of course he is going to drink more, he is an addict, cannot control himself. I expect that he will drink more. I expect that he will say, "Hey, you must have done something with that booze, wife, because I possibly could not have drank that much." And then of course, he goes on defensive.
Pills are in this case no different than alcohol. Benzos you say? They are highly addictive! Where I come from, they generally are not prescribed for more than 10 days!
So what role are you exactly playing and why? You cannot make them understand anything! Yelling, screaming, crying, being nice, threatening. It will not go anywhere. Actually, she might even start blaming you. There are so many great stickies at the top of this forum. One of them describes addiction/alcoholism as a play in three acts and four actors. You are one of the actors.
Detachment with love is an amazing concept that is there to help you to cope in a productive manner.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 115
Originally Posted by healthyagain 
You know, what you are describing reminds me of this scenario:
Lets say my AH says, "As a sign of good will, I want you to every day check how much I drank and notify me if you notice I drank more ounces than . . . quantity irrelevant."
Of course he is going to drink more, he is an addict, cannot control himself. I expect that he will drink more. I expect that he will say, "Hey, you must have done something with that booze, wife, because I possibly could not have drank that much." And then of course, he goes on defensive.
Pills are in this case no different than alcohol. Benzos you say? They are highly addictive! Where I come from, they generally are not prescribed for more than 10 days!
So what role are you exactly playing and why? You cannot make them understand anything! Yelling, screaming, crying, being nice, threatening. It will not go anywhere. Actually, she might even start blaming you. There are so many great stickies at the top of this forum. One of them describes addiction/alcoholism as a play in three acts and four actors. You are one of the actors.
Detachment with love is an amazing concept that is there to help you to cope in a productive manner.
Lets say my AH says, "As a sign of good will, I want you to every day check how much I drank and notify me if you notice I drank more ounces than . . . quantity irrelevant."
Of course he is going to drink more, he is an addict, cannot control himself. I expect that he will drink more. I expect that he will say, "Hey, you must have done something with that booze, wife, because I possibly could not have drank that much." And then of course, he goes on defensive.
Pills are in this case no different than alcohol. Benzos you say? They are highly addictive! Where I come from, they generally are not prescribed for more than 10 days!
So what role are you exactly playing and why? You cannot make them understand anything! Yelling, screaming, crying, being nice, threatening. It will not go anywhere. Actually, she might even start blaming you. There are so many great stickies at the top of this forum. One of them describes addiction/alcoholism as a play in three acts and four actors. You are one of the actors.
Detachment with love is an amazing concept that is there to help you to cope in a productive manner.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,388
Again, it seems to me that you are trying to control something you cannot. It is a heavy burden for you, you know. So, she is taking more than she should, and that means she should run out of them faster, right? They are addictive with possible withdrawal symptoms. If she is really addicted, she will be craving them. Possibly even visit the doctor and ask for more. And the doctor should be able to see the red flags. Benzos are notorious for abuse.
But I am speculating again. Speculating big time.
Personally, I would not get myself involved too much, unless you think that she might overdose or something. But other than that, if she is addicted, it is like with any other addiction. You can only work on yourself.
But I am speculating again. Speculating big time.
Personally, I would not get myself involved too much, unless you think that she might overdose or something. But other than that, if she is addicted, it is like with any other addiction. You can only work on yourself.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: East Coast
Posts: 865
Should I inform her doc about her past and her tendency to abuse these pills.
Addicts are very cleaver. It will not matter who you tell, you could even post it on a billboard, if she wants the pills she will get them. My addict would just switch doctors.
I have been lurking around this thread for a while now and I can't help but worry about the kids. This dysfunction is not healthy for adults much less children. Young or old, this will have an impact on their lives.
I hope something changes soon.
I could suggest the book Codependent No More if you have not already read it. I found it very help, especially when it came to staying on my side of the street and working my recovery.
Best of luck to you both - sending strength and prayers your way!
Addicts are very cleaver. It will not matter who you tell, you could even post it on a billboard, if she wants the pills she will get them. My addict would just switch doctors.
I have been lurking around this thread for a while now and I can't help but worry about the kids. This dysfunction is not healthy for adults much less children. Young or old, this will have an impact on their lives.
I hope something changes soon.
I could suggest the book Codependent No More if you have not already read it. I found it very help, especially when it came to staying on my side of the street and working my recovery.
Best of luck to you both - sending strength and prayers your way!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 115
Both of you are right when she was actively abusing two years ago. She would switch doctors and switch dosage to get more pills and then it was the straight liquor. It hasn't happened in 2 years so I guess I thought it was over. And it was just a phase.
Any ways, I did detach myself from this two years ago and I need to go back to that place. And Yes the kids are my number one priority. If I feel they are not safe I will take them out of the situation. I have done it before. And that is one boundry I won't hesitate to re-inforce.
But it saddens me that they see subtle changes and differences in the way we act with each other and they are learning and picking up that behavior. And that is the part I feel helpless about.
I just need to be patient and keep my emotions under control. Which is hardest part for me. I am an emotional person by nature.
Any ways, I did detach myself from this two years ago and I need to go back to that place. And Yes the kids are my number one priority. If I feel they are not safe I will take them out of the situation. I have done it before. And that is one boundry I won't hesitate to re-inforce.
But it saddens me that they see subtle changes and differences in the way we act with each other and they are learning and picking up that behavior. And that is the part I feel helpless about.
I just need to be patient and keep my emotions under control. Which is hardest part for me. I am an emotional person by nature.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
There's really no telling what is going on in her mind. I went back & read your previous threads from 2 yrs ago to get a bigger picture & I have to wonder if she's setting herself up for relapse. Although, depending on how you look at it, you could say she already HAS relapsed with the pills. She accepted a prescription for pills knowing she has a history of abusing them, that's on her. That's a choice. Red Flag.
It seems obvious from your shares that she does exactly zero work on her recovery. She refuses addiction counseling & support groups like AA, only participates in MC to appease you and/or is only interested in it in order to prove how wrong you are about everything. She's not reaching out for education, growth, tools, anything... and that's why you keep getting the same types of childish responses from her. (5 hours of silent treatment over your gym buddy?.... yeah, not ok.)
I can relate to how desperate & lonely her post-partum period was, but if amends have been made & the behavior has changed, there's no reason for it to be an ongoing grudge. It's weak of her to continue to blame you for her problems with substance abuse; Red Flag. Someone truly IN recovery would now, in hindsight, see their part in all of that.
Your story triggers for me a bit because my husband relapsed after 2+ years of sobriety-without-recovery & I know firsthand how easily it is for someone who is essentially white-knuckling to fall fast & hard. His relapse was minor in terms of actual alcohol, but the consequences were enormous. Overnight, everything changed.
I also worry for your kids. They see so much more than anyone EVER gives them credit for. They will be using these examples of passive-aggressive behavior as their barometer for "normal". It's not just the "big" stuff that creates damage that takes years to undo, it's the day-to-day erosion of behaviors that they witness.
It seems obvious from your shares that she does exactly zero work on her recovery. She refuses addiction counseling & support groups like AA, only participates in MC to appease you and/or is only interested in it in order to prove how wrong you are about everything. She's not reaching out for education, growth, tools, anything... and that's why you keep getting the same types of childish responses from her. (5 hours of silent treatment over your gym buddy?.... yeah, not ok.)
I can relate to how desperate & lonely her post-partum period was, but if amends have been made & the behavior has changed, there's no reason for it to be an ongoing grudge. It's weak of her to continue to blame you for her problems with substance abuse; Red Flag. Someone truly IN recovery would now, in hindsight, see their part in all of that.
Your story triggers for me a bit because my husband relapsed after 2+ years of sobriety-without-recovery & I know firsthand how easily it is for someone who is essentially white-knuckling to fall fast & hard. His relapse was minor in terms of actual alcohol, but the consequences were enormous. Overnight, everything changed.
I also worry for your kids. They see so much more than anyone EVER gives them credit for. They will be using these examples of passive-aggressive behavior as their barometer for "normal". It's not just the "big" stuff that creates damage that takes years to undo, it's the day-to-day erosion of behaviors that they witness.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 115
Fire,
I agree with you, and I understand where you are coming from. You are echoing my feelings. But at the same time I am trying to do what I think is right based on the information I have. And yes she did relapse. And that is what is scaring me - what is coming down the pipe.
She has an issue with accepting her faults. But she did something which I thought wasn't possible. She cried in the MC session and told the counselor that she was helpless and kept going back to 'Alcohol and drugs' over and over. And I would catch her and she would beg for mercy and then do it again. She said she felt so helpless and doesn't know why she kept doing it while knowing it was wrong.
That right there gave me some hope. I have never heard those words out of her mouth. Her behavior is getting better towards me. And she is not as cold but then again, I don't know if its temp or not. And yes the girls are smart and they see this and pick up on this. They are smarter beyond their years. But either way I cut it, I can't keep them safe from trauma.
I agree with you, and I understand where you are coming from. You are echoing my feelings. But at the same time I am trying to do what I think is right based on the information I have. And yes she did relapse. And that is what is scaring me - what is coming down the pipe.
She has an issue with accepting her faults. But she did something which I thought wasn't possible. She cried in the MC session and told the counselor that she was helpless and kept going back to 'Alcohol and drugs' over and over. And I would catch her and she would beg for mercy and then do it again. She said she felt so helpless and doesn't know why she kept doing it while knowing it was wrong.
That right there gave me some hope. I have never heard those words out of her mouth. Her behavior is getting better towards me. And she is not as cold but then again, I don't know if its temp or not. And yes the girls are smart and they see this and pick up on this. They are smarter beyond their years. But either way I cut it, I can't keep them safe from trauma.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,426
You can keep them safe from living with an active addict, however, if you set such a boundary.
I think Fire has pretty much summed up what is at stake.
As a former addict myself, I can tell you that the tears and crying and admitting helplessness is what I did to get my spouse off my back and buy some time. I also tried to be "nicer" so my status quo wouldn't change.
Don't mean to be harsh or say this is the case with your wife, but the missing pills, defensiveness, and harsh counter-attacks when you questioned her really suggest she is not at all in recovery, but in temporarily abstaining.
I think Fire has pretty much summed up what is at stake.
As a former addict myself, I can tell you that the tears and crying and admitting helplessness is what I did to get my spouse off my back and buy some time. I also tried to be "nicer" so my status quo wouldn't change.
Don't mean to be harsh or say this is the case with your wife, but the missing pills, defensiveness, and harsh counter-attacks when you questioned her really suggest she is not at all in recovery, but in temporarily abstaining.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Trust me, I get it. All you can do is work twice as hard at staying on your own side of the street & wait for more to be revealed, adjusting your decisions as necessary throughout the process. Sharpen your recovery tools, develop more.
She's not at a point of acceptance with herself & her faults? I get that, everyone's path is different... diff timing, diff "rock bottom", whatnot. But the one constant similarity is that everyone has to get there on their own. It's fantastic that you see strides in counseling, no matter how tiny. Just be careful with hope is all, weight it against actions.
Focus on you - it pays off despite her pace, for you and the kids. Meetings, extra readings, more outlets/time for stress management. Plan time to take the kids on day trips & focus on being in the Right Now with them (ice cream, inside jokes, new experiences, walks in the park), talk to them, listen . DD & I also started a lot of new activities, challenged ourselves & bonded. RAH was ALWAYS welcome to join us, but we didn't reschedule or adjust to work around his obstacles like I'd done in the past. I started new hobbies for myself & actively sought out workshops & classes that would expand my horizons in any way that seemed interesting. Mind, body, spirit, whatever.
I found it easier to learn detachment (it was absolutely something I had to learn, it went against my ACoA instincts entirely) in theory by practicing it physically sometimes. It was simply easier to not focus on him when I was really, fully focusing on something else. When gratitude was in short supply at home, DD & I would go out & find ways to pay it forward to others & take the focus off of us. (Well, I did... she followed & learned.) Of course, just my experience/opinion, but one thing I'm positive about is that staying strong in my own recovery has never failed to pay off in spades when challenges pop up.
She's not at a point of acceptance with herself & her faults? I get that, everyone's path is different... diff timing, diff "rock bottom", whatnot. But the one constant similarity is that everyone has to get there on their own. It's fantastic that you see strides in counseling, no matter how tiny. Just be careful with hope is all, weight it against actions.
Focus on you - it pays off despite her pace, for you and the kids. Meetings, extra readings, more outlets/time for stress management. Plan time to take the kids on day trips & focus on being in the Right Now with them (ice cream, inside jokes, new experiences, walks in the park), talk to them, listen . DD & I also started a lot of new activities, challenged ourselves & bonded. RAH was ALWAYS welcome to join us, but we didn't reschedule or adjust to work around his obstacles like I'd done in the past. I started new hobbies for myself & actively sought out workshops & classes that would expand my horizons in any way that seemed interesting. Mind, body, spirit, whatever.
I found it easier to learn detachment (it was absolutely something I had to learn, it went against my ACoA instincts entirely) in theory by practicing it physically sometimes. It was simply easier to not focus on him when I was really, fully focusing on something else. When gratitude was in short supply at home, DD & I would go out & find ways to pay it forward to others & take the focus off of us. (Well, I did... she followed & learned.) Of course, just my experience/opinion, but one thing I'm positive about is that staying strong in my own recovery has never failed to pay off in spades when challenges pop up.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 214
What do you really, in your heart, want to do? Talk it over with your counselor and your sponsor.
You can't make her change, so you'll need to decide if you and the kids can live with this as-is, and what that will look like. Or moving on or taking a break, what would that look like?
The hardest part for me to accept, somehow, is that even if I shove proof in an addict's face, he'll still refuse to validate and acknowledge reality. That's just how it is. I think couple's counseling is sometimes a hope that someone ELSE can get them to open their eyes and ******* wake up. Didn't work for me and my ex.
That flash of insight is a gift to the addict from their higher power, or from life, or who knows. It isn't something we can control, or make happen or force.
Detachment to me meant accepting that they live in their own reality, and have every right to do so. It's not for me to control how an A lives or thinks. It's my job to let go, and make sure my kids are safe. I wish you and your wife and kids the best of luck.
You can't make her change, so you'll need to decide if you and the kids can live with this as-is, and what that will look like. Or moving on or taking a break, what would that look like?
The hardest part for me to accept, somehow, is that even if I shove proof in an addict's face, he'll still refuse to validate and acknowledge reality. That's just how it is. I think couple's counseling is sometimes a hope that someone ELSE can get them to open their eyes and ******* wake up. Didn't work for me and my ex.
That flash of insight is a gift to the addict from their higher power, or from life, or who knows. It isn't something we can control, or make happen or force.
Detachment to me meant accepting that they live in their own reality, and have every right to do so. It's not for me to control how an A lives or thinks. It's my job to let go, and make sure my kids are safe. I wish you and your wife and kids the best of luck.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 115
fairly uncertain very true. Definitely something to chew on. I guess, in my mind there would be a limit or some boundry which would have to be crossed for me to take that leap? I don't know.
I guess I need to do some soul searching and find out what I really want.
I guess I need to do some soul searching and find out what I really want.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 115
I have a question for you guys, as you know from my posts my wife has a hard time with accepting responsibility for her faults. And its much harder for her to accept that she has a 'character defect'. And that is in general not talking about substance abuse.
So keeping that in mind, what do you guys think I should say when asked, if I think she is an addict?
So keeping that in mind, what do you guys think I should say when asked, if I think she is an addict?
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I'd suggest that she meet with a doctor or therapist who specializes in addiction so she can get a professional opinion. If I were you, I'd just say that her behavior worries you and that it looks like she very well may be addicted, and why not go see someone who can give you a more informed answer.
This keeps you out of "diagnosing" mode and she might take more seriously what a professional says, than anything you would say.
My guess is she will say she doesn't need to see anyone, that she's just fine. In that case, I'd let it go.
This keeps you out of "diagnosing" mode and she might take more seriously what a professional says, than anything you would say.
My guess is she will say she doesn't need to see anyone, that she's just fine. In that case, I'd let it go.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
I think, when asked, and when you feel safe enough sharing, you should tell the truth, no matter what it is. What are you protecting her from?
If I am asked whether my ex was an addict, I answer yes.
If I am asked whether my ex was an addict, I answer yes.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
