This is NOT living
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 115
Originally Posted by Wisconsin 
Army, try to remember that you don't HAVE to work on yourself at all. You are CHOOSING to do it, so you can be a better you, and a better father. Likewise, your wife doesn't have to do a darn thing. She's a full grown adult who can (and will) behave as she pleases. She'll either drink, or she won't. She'll abuse prescription drugs, or she won't. She'll be volatile and abusive, or she won't. I'm glad you're looking after yourself, and I hope you will continue to see the benefits of it go far beyond a one-sided attempt to save your marriage.
Hang in there.
Hang in there.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Army, your post makes me tired. When you stated what usto work does not work now. Gosh, I so remember always doing that crazy dance. Trying to figure out what can change the behavior of someone else so I would not lose my mind. The obvious answer is, nothing. You cannot change their behavior.
HOWEVER...you are educated enough to realize that you can and need to change yours, and that is a huge step. Individual counseling has helped me on a huge level during the rockiest days of my marriage. Keep searching for that right person to council with, they can truly help you.
I can hear progress in your posts, and that is a really great thing.
Keep coming back, you are never alone!
HOWEVER...you are educated enough to realize that you can and need to change yours, and that is a huge step. Individual counseling has helped me on a huge level during the rockiest days of my marriage. Keep searching for that right person to council with, they can truly help you.
I can hear progress in your posts, and that is a really great thing.
Keep coming back, you are never alone!
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Army you're doing your best, but she's abusive and I don't think there's much you can do about it, realistically.
I'm glad you're getting individual counselling, but how much more stress you can stand? It's just not a nurturing or loving atmosphere, and I'm sure you'd be better out of it.
I'm glad you're getting individual counselling, but how much more stress you can stand? It's just not a nurturing or loving atmosphere, and I'm sure you'd be better out of it.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 56
Army, I want to second what Amy55 just said. It sounds like to me that she may still be drinking. For many years, I was able to drink without my wife knowing it. Of course, I was very difficult to be around because of the booze. What I did was try to drink just enough to get somewhat buzzed but not too much where I would lose it.
The end result was that although I didn't appear to be a stumbling drunk to her, I was always overreacting to things because of the booze.
In short, I was a different person.
When I would not drink, rarely as it was, I became again just like the guy she married, I didn't fly off the handle at the slightest thing, I didn't act weird, and we didn't get into arguments. She thought I was just being difficult when I drank, and she either didn't realize that I was drinking, or she was not being honest with herself.
I say all of this to suggest that your wife may be still drinking/using, just a thought.
Other than that, I really don't feel qualified to offer any other advice. Good luck to you.
The end result was that although I didn't appear to be a stumbling drunk to her, I was always overreacting to things because of the booze.
In short, I was a different person.
When I would not drink, rarely as it was, I became again just like the guy she married, I didn't fly off the handle at the slightest thing, I didn't act weird, and we didn't get into arguments. She thought I was just being difficult when I drank, and she either didn't realize that I was drinking, or she was not being honest with herself.
I say all of this to suggest that your wife may be still drinking/using, just a thought.
Other than that, I really don't feel qualified to offer any other advice. Good luck to you.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 115
Hi Friends,
I am back. I need you guys more than ever. I have concluded to go down the 'Divorce' path. I will share more details about what has transpired since the last time I was here, in a later post.
For now I am scared my mind is all over the place. My head hurts and I can't stop feeling hurt, especially when I look at my babies smiling, knowing that what I am about to do is going to make them cry, a lot.
I am back. I need you guys more than ever. I have concluded to go down the 'Divorce' path. I will share more details about what has transpired since the last time I was here, in a later post.
For now I am scared my mind is all over the place. My head hurts and I can't stop feeling hurt, especially when I look at my babies smiling, knowing that what I am about to do is going to make them cry, a lot.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Your babies will cry for a number of things over the course of their lives. You can minimize the sadness that comes as a result of living in chaos. That may reduce immeasurably the tear production over the course of the years to come.
We've got your back.
We've got your back.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,414
What Lexie said--I grew up in an alcoholic chaotic and angry home.
I would have been far better off with a stable sober parent--you can be that
so from my perspective, you are saving your babies tears, not creating them.
I would have been far better off with a stable sober parent--you can be that
so from my perspective, you are saving your babies tears, not creating them.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Army...I get ya. When I got divorced at first I was terrified I was about to ruin my girls lives. Guess what, that did not happen. Take it a day, even a moment at a time. Tackle one thing at a time. Be there for your kids, be honest and open with them in the most loving way possible.
YOU CAN DO THIS. Many hugs!
YOU CAN DO THIS. Many hugs!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 115
Hi everybody.
Since the last time I was here I got myself into individual therapy. She is in individual therapy as well. And we have our MC sessions (it’s been 10 months). I honestly thought things were getting better, and maybe they were. I realize now that everything became about her. I became obsessed with making her better. My whole day revolved around her.
The rages didn't end and the frequency didn't change. But they didn't last as long. They were shorter, and I was committed to letting things go and making her feel comfortable. And in an effort to do that, I made a mistake; after not even having a drink in 35 years, for the first time I compromised on my principles. She asked me if I would drink with her on our date night. And I agreed. I didn't like it, my mouth, throat was burning. She opened up more and I felt a connection which I had not felt in a long time. She excitingly proclaimed since I am open, she has no reason to hide anything and she felt so much lighter. And if she ever felt like drinking, all she had to do was bring it home and drink with me with my knowledge knowing she was safe.
She asked if she could do it again 3 weeks later and then again 2 weeks later. Both times I reluctantly agreed. And honestly, I knew in the back of my head that I shouldn't be doing this. I just took a sip or two. It would made my head hurt. But she showered me with so much love and affection in those moments that I was getting drunk off of it.
Then one day she was upset about something and said she is leaving to go get groceries and returns drunk. I could smell it on her from 10 feet away. She drove like that, and when I confronted her, her response was that yes drank but she is NOT drunk and the kids were NOT in the car. And that she didn't hide it from me. It felt like I got punched in my stomach. Even though I knew deep down what was happening, I somehow hoped she didn't have an issue with alcohol. And the issue actually was me not being 'supportive'. And once she was able to 'occasionally' drink with me present she wouldn't have the need to hide it or abuse it. I know I was being stupid. And I realized it right at that moment. She told me multiple times, not to worry, she sees how hard I am trying to build trust again in the relationship and she would never do anything to hurt it. And I would be lying if I said, it didn't sound good.
This was earlier in the week. And then later in the week it was our 9th marriage anniversary. I bought her an iPhone, got a cake and a bouquet of flowers, send her a poem and an email with how much I love her yada yada… but no matter what the hell I did that day she wasn’t happy. Everything under the sun was wrong. I didn’t even get a gift, just a promise of a gift. Not even card, just a note replying to my email. This is the day before thanksgiving and the next day it didn’t change. Even though she would try to be physically affectionate, she would keep complaining about something or the other. And by that time we were on our way over to a friend’s house and I had just about had it. I and let her have it. After about 20 mins I realized what I did and apologized for blowing up. But all I got was a cold shoulder. We didn’t talk that night she slept with the girls, like she has been for the past couple of years. In the morning I came over to check on them while they were still asleep and I found a white pill next to my younger daughter in the bed. I picked it up and realized it was ‘Hydrocodone’ she was popping them the day before when we were at our friend’s house. I thought it was odd when I saw my wife go into their bedroom multiple times. But it seemed like the host (her friend) was aware.
At this time I was FURIOUS. It took every ounce of courage to not wake her up at that time and un-load on her. But I walked out and decided right then and there that I was getting a divorce. We haven’t talked since then, it’s been 5 days. And I have since spoken to my therapist, sponsor, and a friend.
I researched and found out that 1 to 2 pills are enough to kill a toddler and or seriously mess them up for life. I haven’t said anything to her about the pill. But this is where I am drawing a line. I am looking for attorneys and trying to go back and look at all the documentation I have. If we do end up having our MC session tomorrow, I will bring up the events that took place and try to process it but I am not going to bring up anything about the divorce.
I am scared, hurt, and heartbroken. I gave it all I had. And the truth is I still love her to death and don’t want to go through with this. And I keep picturing my girls. They would be heartbroken. I don’t know what I will tell them. But I know I have to for their safety.
Since the last time I was here I got myself into individual therapy. She is in individual therapy as well. And we have our MC sessions (it’s been 10 months). I honestly thought things were getting better, and maybe they were. I realize now that everything became about her. I became obsessed with making her better. My whole day revolved around her.
The rages didn't end and the frequency didn't change. But they didn't last as long. They were shorter, and I was committed to letting things go and making her feel comfortable. And in an effort to do that, I made a mistake; after not even having a drink in 35 years, for the first time I compromised on my principles. She asked me if I would drink with her on our date night. And I agreed. I didn't like it, my mouth, throat was burning. She opened up more and I felt a connection which I had not felt in a long time. She excitingly proclaimed since I am open, she has no reason to hide anything and she felt so much lighter. And if she ever felt like drinking, all she had to do was bring it home and drink with me with my knowledge knowing she was safe.
She asked if she could do it again 3 weeks later and then again 2 weeks later. Both times I reluctantly agreed. And honestly, I knew in the back of my head that I shouldn't be doing this. I just took a sip or two. It would made my head hurt. But she showered me with so much love and affection in those moments that I was getting drunk off of it.
Then one day she was upset about something and said she is leaving to go get groceries and returns drunk. I could smell it on her from 10 feet away. She drove like that, and when I confronted her, her response was that yes drank but she is NOT drunk and the kids were NOT in the car. And that she didn't hide it from me. It felt like I got punched in my stomach. Even though I knew deep down what was happening, I somehow hoped she didn't have an issue with alcohol. And the issue actually was me not being 'supportive'. And once she was able to 'occasionally' drink with me present she wouldn't have the need to hide it or abuse it. I know I was being stupid. And I realized it right at that moment. She told me multiple times, not to worry, she sees how hard I am trying to build trust again in the relationship and she would never do anything to hurt it. And I would be lying if I said, it didn't sound good.
This was earlier in the week. And then later in the week it was our 9th marriage anniversary. I bought her an iPhone, got a cake and a bouquet of flowers, send her a poem and an email with how much I love her yada yada… but no matter what the hell I did that day she wasn’t happy. Everything under the sun was wrong. I didn’t even get a gift, just a promise of a gift. Not even card, just a note replying to my email. This is the day before thanksgiving and the next day it didn’t change. Even though she would try to be physically affectionate, she would keep complaining about something or the other. And by that time we were on our way over to a friend’s house and I had just about had it. I and let her have it. After about 20 mins I realized what I did and apologized for blowing up. But all I got was a cold shoulder. We didn’t talk that night she slept with the girls, like she has been for the past couple of years. In the morning I came over to check on them while they were still asleep and I found a white pill next to my younger daughter in the bed. I picked it up and realized it was ‘Hydrocodone’ she was popping them the day before when we were at our friend’s house. I thought it was odd when I saw my wife go into their bedroom multiple times. But it seemed like the host (her friend) was aware.
At this time I was FURIOUS. It took every ounce of courage to not wake her up at that time and un-load on her. But I walked out and decided right then and there that I was getting a divorce. We haven’t talked since then, it’s been 5 days. And I have since spoken to my therapist, sponsor, and a friend.
I researched and found out that 1 to 2 pills are enough to kill a toddler and or seriously mess them up for life. I haven’t said anything to her about the pill. But this is where I am drawing a line. I am looking for attorneys and trying to go back and look at all the documentation I have. If we do end up having our MC session tomorrow, I will bring up the events that took place and try to process it but I am not going to bring up anything about the divorce.
I am scared, hurt, and heartbroken. I gave it all I had. And the truth is I still love her to death and don’t want to go through with this. And I keep picturing my girls. They would be heartbroken. I don’t know what I will tell them. But I know I have to for their safety.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I'm sorry for your pain, Army, but the damage to you and the girls will only continue until you put an end to this.
You're an adult and you can and will recover from this. You have to keep the well-being of those kids at the forefront of your mind at all times. Your wife is damaging all of you.
You're an adult and you can and will recover from this. You have to keep the well-being of those kids at the forefront of your mind at all times. Your wife is damaging all of you.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
I think that would push me way far over the edge too Army, I don't blame you for being furious & scared.
Your kids need to be more important than your wife's addiction & no matter how hard it is to hear, that is not happening - you defer to her & she defers to her DOC. These big events terrify us (as they should) but it's really the smaller, every day stuff that creates the Huge Damage.
Kids are resilient & they will heal & they will thrive. Truthfully, being 100% honest, my DD THANKED me for putting up those boundaries that protected her. (She was like 5/6 at the time) She told me she knew daddy loved her, definitely, but that even SHE could tell he wasn't always making decisions with her best interests in mind & it didn't make her feel safe to be with him at times. I cried so hard at her feeling that way & me never even knowing it. They see so much more than you can understand (unless you've lived it, of course).
I'm sorry this is happening, but glad you aren't accepting this behavior.
Your kids need to be more important than your wife's addiction & no matter how hard it is to hear, that is not happening - you defer to her & she defers to her DOC. These big events terrify us (as they should) but it's really the smaller, every day stuff that creates the Huge Damage.
Kids are resilient & they will heal & they will thrive. Truthfully, being 100% honest, my DD THANKED me for putting up those boundaries that protected her. (She was like 5/6 at the time) She told me she knew daddy loved her, definitely, but that even SHE could tell he wasn't always making decisions with her best interests in mind & it didn't make her feel safe to be with him at times. I cried so hard at her feeling that way & me never even knowing it. They see so much more than you can understand (unless you've lived it, of course).
I'm sorry this is happening, but glad you aren't accepting this behavior.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Army....a few years back my youngest was 5. She had to have an ear surgery. She did great, and did not need the pain meds that were prescribed to her. Once my XAH found out that she did not need them, he drank it. I could not believe it, I was livid. His problem is not even pain pills, but he is an addict, and if it's there, he is going to take it.
Jump forward two years, I had a leg surgery. Same situation, I did not need the pain pills very often. I had only taken one or two. I was having a painful day and decided to take one, only to realize that the bottle was 3/4 gone. Good grief.
I could not leave a single pill or a single schred of trust laying around my house. It was miserable. It has not been a picnic, but me and my girls are a million times better off.
You can do this. Stick to your boundaries. Document, document, document.
Many hugs.
Jump forward two years, I had a leg surgery. Same situation, I did not need the pain pills very often. I had only taken one or two. I was having a painful day and decided to take one, only to realize that the bottle was 3/4 gone. Good grief.
I could not leave a single pill or a single schred of trust laying around my house. It was miserable. It has not been a picnic, but me and my girls are a million times better off.
You can do this. Stick to your boundaries. Document, document, document.
Many hugs.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 115
Originally Posted by FireSprite
I think that would push me way far over the edge too Army, I don't blame you for being furious & scared.
Your kids need to be more important than your wife's addiction & no matter how hard it is to hear, that is not happening - you defer to her & she defers to her DOC. These big events terrify us (as they should) but it's really the smaller, every day stuff that creates the Huge Damage.
Kids are resilient & they will heal & they will thrive. Truthfully, being 100% honest, my DD THANKED me for putting up those boundaries that protected her. (She was like 5/6 at the time) She told me she knew daddy loved her, definitely, but that even SHE could tell he wasn't always making decisions with her best interests in mind & it didn't make her feel safe to be with him at times. I cried so hard at her feeling that way & me never even knowing it. They see so much more than you can understand (unless you've lived it, of course).
I'm sorry this is happening, but glad you aren't accepting this behavior.
Your kids need to be more important than your wife's addiction & no matter how hard it is to hear, that is not happening - you defer to her & she defers to her DOC. These big events terrify us (as they should) but it's really the smaller, every day stuff that creates the Huge Damage.
Kids are resilient & they will heal & they will thrive. Truthfully, being 100% honest, my DD THANKED me for putting up those boundaries that protected her. (She was like 5/6 at the time) She told me she knew daddy loved her, definitely, but that even SHE could tell he wasn't always making decisions with her best interests in mind & it didn't make her feel safe to be with him at times. I cried so hard at her feeling that way & me never even knowing it. They see so much more than you can understand (unless you've lived it, of course).
I'm sorry this is happening, but glad you aren't accepting this behavior.
Trust me there are times when I start thinking that I am over reacting and a hug and kiss would fix everything. And I have to fight myself and tell myself to shut the hell up.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 115
I don't know anything about divorce. I don't know how custody works, I don't know how child support works. I am trying to read up as much as I can. But everything I have come across says that divorce involving a BPD/NPD is one of the nastiest and messiest ordeals.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by ArmyOfOne
I don't know anything about divorce. I don't know how custody works, I don't know how child support works. I am trying to read up as much as I can. But everything I have come across says that divorce involving a BPD/NPD is one of the nastiest and messiest ordeals.
Isn't it already true, though, that you DO know, from your own experience, that MARRIAGE involving a BPD/NPD is an extraordinarily nasty and messy ordeal? The difference with the divorce is you don't have to be in the middle of it 24/7.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
I also agree that you need a consult with a lawyer, or perhaps 2 or 3. Find one that you like. There are many lawyers that give free consults.
Now, I can't say that my ex has BPD, I can only say that I am 99.99% sure. What my ex did was to keep delaying "discover". This is where you submit documentation as to assets and earnings. Can you get this info yourself? They will argue everything, and in "high conflict" divorces, a lot of times you need the judge to make the final determination.
You can not bring up in court that you think she has BPD/NPD or anything else, not if she was never diagnosed.
You can tell your lawyer, or have your lawyer listen to recordings, tell your lawyer about that pill, tell your lawyer about the drinking, the rages, ....
Do you keep a journal? If not, start keeping one.
My kids were older when I got divorced, so there was no child custody involved.
For child support, I think almost every State has a child support calculator online that can help you.
Just know that we are here for you.
(((((hugs)))))
amy
Now, I can't say that my ex has BPD, I can only say that I am 99.99% sure. What my ex did was to keep delaying "discover". This is where you submit documentation as to assets and earnings. Can you get this info yourself? They will argue everything, and in "high conflict" divorces, a lot of times you need the judge to make the final determination.
You can not bring up in court that you think she has BPD/NPD or anything else, not if she was never diagnosed.
You can tell your lawyer, or have your lawyer listen to recordings, tell your lawyer about that pill, tell your lawyer about the drinking, the rages, ....
Do you keep a journal? If not, start keeping one.
My kids were older when I got divorced, so there was no child custody involved.
For child support, I think almost every State has a child support calculator online that can help you.
Just know that we are here for you.
(((((hugs)))))
amy
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Armyofone.....there is a wersite...."Wonam'sdivorce.com". It gives information and explanations that are designed for the layperson...like yourself....to understand. It covers all aspects of divorce.
It is broken down by state and subject matter.
I encourage you to peruse it......
It is not to replace a lawyer, of course.....just to educate and explain how the whole thing works......
dandylion
It is broken down by state and subject matter.
I encourage you to peruse it......
It is not to replace a lawyer, of course.....just to educate and explain how the whole thing works......
dandylion
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
Army, I'm going to tell you that it took me a long time to leave my ex. It took me 25 years. Am I Ok? no, are my kids OK, I would say no there also.
There are some of us that have to keep trying and trying and nothing works. The only thing that it really does is to damage the children.
We see the kind inviting eyes and we can see the hurt behind them, then we can see the shark eyes that aren't even looking at you, and they just need to rage. You just happen to be there, problem is, you are there a lot. The kind inviting eyes are manipulation, part of the push/pull. The monster rage is the anger inside themselves, but you are right there. So it must be your fault. None of this is going to get any better, it will get worse. It will get physical, and your wife knows how to blame you for it. She does have some kind of job with DV if I'm not mistaken. It was a long time ago that I read this from the beginning.
I think I need to say, you need to protect yourself as of yesterday, or a month ago, but at least start doing it as of today.
I think I saw you posting a little on another forum that I go to. Perhaps start going back there also a little. Start reading some of those threads. Prepare yourself.
You'll always have a lot of people in your corner here. We really do understand how hard this is for you. Please get that consult though.
amy
There are some of us that have to keep trying and trying and nothing works. The only thing that it really does is to damage the children.
We see the kind inviting eyes and we can see the hurt behind them, then we can see the shark eyes that aren't even looking at you, and they just need to rage. You just happen to be there, problem is, you are there a lot. The kind inviting eyes are manipulation, part of the push/pull. The monster rage is the anger inside themselves, but you are right there. So it must be your fault. None of this is going to get any better, it will get worse. It will get physical, and your wife knows how to blame you for it. She does have some kind of job with DV if I'm not mistaken. It was a long time ago that I read this from the beginning.
I think I need to say, you need to protect yourself as of yesterday, or a month ago, but at least start doing it as of today.
I think I saw you posting a little on another forum that I go to. Perhaps start going back there also a little. Start reading some of those threads. Prepare yourself.
You'll always have a lot of people in your corner here. We really do understand how hard this is for you. Please get that consult though.
amy
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