Backstory and quick question
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Buying the clip might have got her thinking about alcohol, just in the wrong way, but I agree with Refiner that she might have been secretly sipping for a while.
Focus on your 1 year (which is awesome) because it's the only thing you can do. Where does the relapse leave your relationship with her? You haven't discussed it as yet.
Focus on your 1 year (which is awesome) because it's the only thing you can do. Where does the relapse leave your relationship with her? You haven't discussed it as yet.
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 120
She came to me later in the evening and told me the whole thing. She only had three beers and poured the rest out, (if she had drank more, it would have been way obvious). All the cans are accounted for. And she knows she made a stupid mistake.
So instead of a full blown relapse it was more like sticking your toe in the water. She'll be going to a meeting at noon today (like every monday) so I believe she'll get back on-track.
So instead of a full blown relapse it was more like sticking your toe in the water. She'll be going to a meeting at noon today (like every monday) so I believe she'll get back on-track.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
I hope she can get right back on track, but I wouldn't be surprised if "more will be revealed"..... all around.
I'm sure you were disappointed; I know I would've been affected if it had been my anniversary date & we were so open about it all. That really stinks.
For me relapse isn't all about the amount of alcohol imbibed - it's about the relapse of behaviors that allowed it in the first place. To me, those are the things that HAVE to be addressed or the pattern will just keep going in circles. (longer, wider, more oval - doesn't matter if it just keeps circling back) Relapse is relapse is relapse whether it's a single beer or a month-long-bender because it's not just about the alcohol.
I'm sure you were disappointed; I know I would've been affected if it had been my anniversary date & we were so open about it all. That really stinks.
For me relapse isn't all about the amount of alcohol imbibed - it's about the relapse of behaviors that allowed it in the first place. To me, those are the things that HAVE to be addressed or the pattern will just keep going in circles. (longer, wider, more oval - doesn't matter if it just keeps circling back) Relapse is relapse is relapse whether it's a single beer or a month-long-bender because it's not just about the alcohol.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,429
I agree with FireSprite--this is a symptom of a deeper problem which still isn't resolved.
I also think this isn't the first time--just a feeling
Hope things get back on track quickly--are you clear with yourself and her what will happen if it doesn't?
I also think this isn't the first time--just a feeling
Hope things get back on track quickly--are you clear with yourself and her what will happen if it doesn't?
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Nero,
Some things in common....
My wife did not get sober until she hit rock bottom - kicked out. When the alcoholic brain is driving it will keep on drinking until the drinking causes the alcoholic more pain than sobriety would. They say "nothing changes until something changes".
My wife also had two slips in the first year around 9 months into sobriety.
I've heard several folks in AA talk about how after a year or five or ten they figured they could drink like a 'normal' person and they tested the waters and it always ended badly.
In year 1 I catastrophized those slips and had good reason to be terrified since my beloved was pregnant. 3 years later I see it differently... she had lost her sponsor, she was confident that she had it figured out and that she was 'safe' until after the kiddo was born.
Those little gremlins sure do talk a lot of crap in the alcoholics ear :-)
We will complete 4 years since my wife stopped being an active alcoholic on Christmas. It was on a Christmas night that I made her leave (ouch) but it was the spark that lit the fire that has driven her to change and she really has.
I'm an annoyingly optimistic spouse of an alcoholic. I grumbled on page one when there was encouragement to go straight to divorce. I don't believe i could live with an active addict and remain sane (or sorta sane, whatever the hell my level of typical dysfunction qualifies me for). That is a boundary my wife understands and doesn't disagree with now that she is well.
Once they stop and commit to AA it is worth pausing I believe to see what happens. Anyone working a twelve step program for real is, over time, likely to become the saner one in the couple. Happened to us... she begged me to go to Al-anon but of course I was smarter than those folks and everyone here... I was going to fix her so WTF do I need to be in a program for? LOL. Picture a fat kid with a baseball bat going after a Pinata full of candy... that was pretty much God's approach to explaining humility to me.
My wife drank her problems away, I buried mine, what are you doing with yours?
I'm incredibly thankful for my Al-Anon group now, I've got a long way to go but several people to walk me through the map as I get there. Everyone there is either where you are, where you've been or where you want to go and they can all empathize with and understand the special and unique hell of knowing that at any time you might lose your wife to this disease.
My ....share? I would not call it advice ...is this
Take care of yourself. 3 years ago I was far too good for al-anon thanks to my ability to use denial and rationalization to stuff down every problem (they eventually decide to come out BTW). Try a few al-anon meetings if you haven't.
Second, trust your gut while using your head. At first, I was desperate to control the uncontrollable so I had a plan and if she drank we'd crack open the official warplan and ...well, we plan, God giggles and thinks "poor kid".
OK, wife had a slip. You are probably on higher alert than ever, scared doodooless and perhaps mad on top of it? Does wonders for the ole blood pressure huh? Bark at the boss, kids or co-workers yet?
When my wife had her slip I asked her some really helpful questions like:
"Have you lost your f---ing mind?" and the ever popular "WTF were you thinking? Why, Why , Why would you do something so incredibly stupid and selfish!?!?!?!"
Amazingly, that did not help matters very much. To this day I so respect and admire my wife for the response she gave me: "I don't F---ING KNOW! If I knew that I would not be an alcoholic but right now I need to figure it out with my sponsor and you need to get to an al-anon meeting and have them try to fix you because dealing with my own stuff is all I can handle right now!".
Sigh - I shoulda listened but better late than never.
After the slip some folks told me I was naive, she was probably drinking all the time and hiding it and ..don't you just love the wisdom of those who have never been around an alcoholic? LoL the idea that she could be drinking every day and hiding it for any appreciable period of time is just silly, if she could do that we wouldn't be here! That's almost as good as "Uhhh... have you told her to just not START drinking since the problem is she can't stop?" Well golly, no... never thought of that!
That's what I mean when I say listen to your brain but trust your gut. My guess is that your gut will be more accurate telling you how to evaluate this. If it was a slip and she's pissed at herself and hits her program twice as hard this may be a blessing in disguise. MOST people I know in AA talk about when they had to reset their date. MOST of them tell a similar tale: They got comfortable and thought they had it beat so they relaxed. That sneaky sonofabitch called addiction then had the opening it needed to say "Hey, you've been a saint, you're entitled to a little fun - you've earned it! You aren't hooked anymore anyway, a couple drinks, no big deal, then stop again tomorrow". Sigh.
...but for most I've heard describe that scenario it was a wakeup call, they realize they narrowly averted a disaster and they attack their program harder than ever before.
What's your gut telling you? Slip or Relapse?
If the former, your milage may vary but I found that setting aside the anger and blame and just saying "I understand, it's not easy to do what you've been doing and it's got to suck feeling like you are starting over but you really aren't - just keep working on your program and know I am still proud of you and will support you as long as you keep working it". She needed that, turns out that behind the defiant, blame-shifting, angry mask she was wearing back then she was utterly destroyed at the thought that she'd failed and as soon as the mask slipped and I saw that I went from grizzly bear to teddy bear because she needed comfort not recriminations.
Hope one or two things in this ramble might resonate with you and help a little. I know it's scary when there is a slip but take a deep breath, deal with what has happened rather than what might have or hasn't yet happened and if you are not going to al-anon I'm going to offer the same suggestion I scoffed at - nearly to my ruin - for three years and suggest that you try six meetings before deciding it isn't for you. Just like the alcoholic going to AA, their partner going to Al-anon can't be forced or rushed - you have to be ready. I wasn't ready til I nearly destroyed myself so I make it a point to admit that my pride and arrogance nearly wrecked my life for good in hopes that others might use me as an example of what not to do :-) Check yourself over ...Sleeping? Eating? Cranky? Checked yourself for signs of depression and/or anxiety disorder? Burying all that crap because we are men and By God we are strong and we are tough and we can handle it all! ...does not work so well.. (We wind up crying like a little girl).
Good luck
Some things in common....
My wife did not get sober until she hit rock bottom - kicked out. When the alcoholic brain is driving it will keep on drinking until the drinking causes the alcoholic more pain than sobriety would. They say "nothing changes until something changes".
My wife also had two slips in the first year around 9 months into sobriety.
I've heard several folks in AA talk about how after a year or five or ten they figured they could drink like a 'normal' person and they tested the waters and it always ended badly.
In year 1 I catastrophized those slips and had good reason to be terrified since my beloved was pregnant. 3 years later I see it differently... she had lost her sponsor, she was confident that she had it figured out and that she was 'safe' until after the kiddo was born.
Those little gremlins sure do talk a lot of crap in the alcoholics ear :-)
We will complete 4 years since my wife stopped being an active alcoholic on Christmas. It was on a Christmas night that I made her leave (ouch) but it was the spark that lit the fire that has driven her to change and she really has.
I'm an annoyingly optimistic spouse of an alcoholic. I grumbled on page one when there was encouragement to go straight to divorce. I don't believe i could live with an active addict and remain sane (or sorta sane, whatever the hell my level of typical dysfunction qualifies me for). That is a boundary my wife understands and doesn't disagree with now that she is well.
Once they stop and commit to AA it is worth pausing I believe to see what happens. Anyone working a twelve step program for real is, over time, likely to become the saner one in the couple. Happened to us... she begged me to go to Al-anon but of course I was smarter than those folks and everyone here... I was going to fix her so WTF do I need to be in a program for? LOL. Picture a fat kid with a baseball bat going after a Pinata full of candy... that was pretty much God's approach to explaining humility to me.
My wife drank her problems away, I buried mine, what are you doing with yours?
I'm incredibly thankful for my Al-Anon group now, I've got a long way to go but several people to walk me through the map as I get there. Everyone there is either where you are, where you've been or where you want to go and they can all empathize with and understand the special and unique hell of knowing that at any time you might lose your wife to this disease.
My ....share? I would not call it advice ...is this
Take care of yourself. 3 years ago I was far too good for al-anon thanks to my ability to use denial and rationalization to stuff down every problem (they eventually decide to come out BTW). Try a few al-anon meetings if you haven't.
Second, trust your gut while using your head. At first, I was desperate to control the uncontrollable so I had a plan and if she drank we'd crack open the official warplan and ...well, we plan, God giggles and thinks "poor kid".
OK, wife had a slip. You are probably on higher alert than ever, scared doodooless and perhaps mad on top of it? Does wonders for the ole blood pressure huh? Bark at the boss, kids or co-workers yet?
When my wife had her slip I asked her some really helpful questions like:
"Have you lost your f---ing mind?" and the ever popular "WTF were you thinking? Why, Why , Why would you do something so incredibly stupid and selfish!?!?!?!"
Amazingly, that did not help matters very much. To this day I so respect and admire my wife for the response she gave me: "I don't F---ING KNOW! If I knew that I would not be an alcoholic but right now I need to figure it out with my sponsor and you need to get to an al-anon meeting and have them try to fix you because dealing with my own stuff is all I can handle right now!".
Sigh - I shoulda listened but better late than never.
After the slip some folks told me I was naive, she was probably drinking all the time and hiding it and ..don't you just love the wisdom of those who have never been around an alcoholic? LoL the idea that she could be drinking every day and hiding it for any appreciable period of time is just silly, if she could do that we wouldn't be here! That's almost as good as "Uhhh... have you told her to just not START drinking since the problem is she can't stop?" Well golly, no... never thought of that!
That's what I mean when I say listen to your brain but trust your gut. My guess is that your gut will be more accurate telling you how to evaluate this. If it was a slip and she's pissed at herself and hits her program twice as hard this may be a blessing in disguise. MOST people I know in AA talk about when they had to reset their date. MOST of them tell a similar tale: They got comfortable and thought they had it beat so they relaxed. That sneaky sonofabitch called addiction then had the opening it needed to say "Hey, you've been a saint, you're entitled to a little fun - you've earned it! You aren't hooked anymore anyway, a couple drinks, no big deal, then stop again tomorrow". Sigh.
...but for most I've heard describe that scenario it was a wakeup call, they realize they narrowly averted a disaster and they attack their program harder than ever before.
What's your gut telling you? Slip or Relapse?
If the former, your milage may vary but I found that setting aside the anger and blame and just saying "I understand, it's not easy to do what you've been doing and it's got to suck feeling like you are starting over but you really aren't - just keep working on your program and know I am still proud of you and will support you as long as you keep working it". She needed that, turns out that behind the defiant, blame-shifting, angry mask she was wearing back then she was utterly destroyed at the thought that she'd failed and as soon as the mask slipped and I saw that I went from grizzly bear to teddy bear because she needed comfort not recriminations.
Hope one or two things in this ramble might resonate with you and help a little. I know it's scary when there is a slip but take a deep breath, deal with what has happened rather than what might have or hasn't yet happened and if you are not going to al-anon I'm going to offer the same suggestion I scoffed at - nearly to my ruin - for three years and suggest that you try six meetings before deciding it isn't for you. Just like the alcoholic going to AA, their partner going to Al-anon can't be forced or rushed - you have to be ready. I wasn't ready til I nearly destroyed myself so I make it a point to admit that my pride and arrogance nearly wrecked my life for good in hopes that others might use me as an example of what not to do :-) Check yourself over ...Sleeping? Eating? Cranky? Checked yourself for signs of depression and/or anxiety disorder? Burying all that crap because we are men and By God we are strong and we are tough and we can handle it all! ...does not work so well.. (We wind up crying like a little girl).
Good luck
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 120
All evidence points to a slip. And there's no way it's been going on for a while. The tells she has when she drinks are so obvious. I'd know right away, just like I did Sunday.
But that little slip has put my mind back to high alert mode, like you said. It's like the clock has rolled back to a year ago and I'm back to dealing with a full blown sneaky alcoholic. Headaches, depression, anger, the whole lot. But she's not anymore and I have to keep reminding myself that.
I made a point to not attack or browbeat her about it. I figured (rightly) she'd be beating herself up about it more than I would. She went to her meeting on Monday, right on schedule.
So I need to take a deep breath and relax.
But that little slip has put my mind back to high alert mode, like you said. It's like the clock has rolled back to a year ago and I'm back to dealing with a full blown sneaky alcoholic. Headaches, depression, anger, the whole lot. But she's not anymore and I have to keep reminding myself that.
I made a point to not attack or browbeat her about it. I figured (rightly) she'd be beating herself up about it more than I would. She went to her meeting on Monday, right on schedule.
So I need to take a deep breath and relax.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by Nero427 
Well, another day another update.
Made an appointment with the divorce attorney for next week. Started putting in motion the plan to separate......And low and behold she went to her first AA meeting today. And she's scheduled to begin the outpatient counseling with the psychiatric facility next week. And she's been sober for 5 days now.
And I don't know how to feel about that....
Made an appointment with the divorce attorney for next week. Started putting in motion the plan to separate......And low and behold she went to her first AA meeting today. And she's scheduled to begin the outpatient counseling with the psychiatric facility next week. And she's been sober for 5 days now.
And I don't know how to feel about that....
If you have conditions attached on whether you stay or not then the answer is NO, it is not unconditional.
You cannot be in a conditioned relationship; that is going to be stressful on both of you to hinge your decisions on meeting those conditions, when these are out of control.
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 120
I'm a completely different person from when I first joined back in January. I was acting out in anger and resentment. And was willing to throw 17 years of marriage away if she didn't change right then. Looking back on the last year I see so many ways I tried to take control of her drinking. Even my sobriety was an scheme to get her to quit drinking.
I understand now that she's out of my control. I just try to be a cheerleader when she's doing good. It's all I can do.
We had a great 7 months while she was completely sober! I believe she can get back on track. For how long? Who knows...
Oh I forgot the gritty details: she's back to vodka. And man the house reeks when she drinks it. I can smell it coming in the house, whats up with that?? I've never encountered that before with her drinking. Is it some kind of body chemistry thing or what?
I understand now that she's out of my control. I just try to be a cheerleader when she's doing good. It's all I can do.
We had a great 7 months while she was completely sober! I believe she can get back on track. For how long? Who knows...
Oh I forgot the gritty details: she's back to vodka. And man the house reeks when she drinks it. I can smell it coming in the house, whats up with that?? I've never encountered that before with her drinking. Is it some kind of body chemistry thing or what?
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by Nero427
...and now she's in full-blown relapse. 
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by Nero427
Oh I forgot the gritty details: she's back to vodka. And man the house reeks when she drinks it. I can smell it coming in the house, whats up with that?? I've never encountered that before with her drinking. Is it some kind of body chemistry thing or what?
I think the body gets so saturated with the alcohol it comes out its pores.
May be completely wrong on it, but I notice a complete difference in the physical smells depending on what mine was drinking. Vodka definitely had a different presence than wine, as far the smells etc.
In mines case, all alcohol got her to the same place, but wine took longer and the mean wasn't as mean, unless she kept drinking. With hard liquor she went from normal to "run for your life" in like 20 mins.
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Location: Florida
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Originally Posted by Nero427
I'm a completely different person from when I first joined back in January. I was acting out in anger and resentment. And was willing to throw 17 years of marriage away if she didn't change right then. Looking back on the last year I see so many ways I tried to take control of her drinking. Even my sobriety was an scheme to get her to quit drinking.
I understand now that she's out of my control. I just try to be a cheerleader when she's doing good. It's all I can do.
We had a great 7 months while she was completely sober! I believe she can get back on track. For how long? Who knows...
Oh I forgot the gritty details: she's back to vodka. And man the house reeks when she drinks it. I can smell it coming in the house, whats up with that?? I've never encountered that before with her drinking. Is it some kind of body chemistry thing or what?
I understand now that she's out of my control. I just try to be a cheerleader when she's doing good. It's all I can do.
We had a great 7 months while she was completely sober! I believe she can get back on track. For how long? Who knows...
Oh I forgot the gritty details: she's back to vodka. And man the house reeks when she drinks it. I can smell it coming in the house, whats up with that?? I've never encountered that before with her drinking. Is it some kind of body chemistry thing or what?
Yes, the body chemistry starts to find other ways of removing the toxins (alcohol) when the liver can't keep up - one way is to sweat it out through the pores. When RAH was at his height of drinking & still working outside in the heat all day his clothes would get saturated wit that stench & then his laundry would simply reek, no other word for it. I moved his laundry basket to his closet & kept the door closed; it was awful & eventually even THAT wasn't enough to deter that rotting scent.
I have to applaud you for sticking to your own sobriety with this added challenge - I know that has to be complicated. Have you given any thought to checking into Al-Anon for some info on managing addiction from this side of things? Have you taken the time to read the sticky'd threads at the top of this forum as well? They can be incredibly helpful!
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Originally Posted by Hangnbyathread
I think so. That and I think the choice they drink matters. The cheaper it is, the worse it is.
She likes vodka because it only takes a nip every now and then to keep her high. Funniest thing ever: she's open about having a bottle in the cabinet (i'd rather her be open than hiding and lying) but I've never seen her take a drink from it! It just magically disappears.
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Originally Posted by Nero427
I was acting out in anger and resentment. And was willing to throw 17 years of marriage away if she didn't change right then.
Last fall, I filed for divorce and converted it to legal separation so I could remain on his health insurance. Things were not getting better; sober or drinking, this was not the relationship I wanted.
Fast forward--in late June, when he purportedly was coming up on his 2-year sobriety anniversary (which I had doubts about to begin with), he comes downstairs, clearly drunk, and tells me he has NEVER made any recovery during that time, has never once even reached out to a fellow AA or anyone else when he wanted to drink; he just drank. I converted the separation back to a divorce. A 19-year marriage, down the drain.
This weekend he angrily accused me of "jumping into" the divorce. Apparently 6-1/2 years of waiting was not long enough. And I've been told this before, in various forms--he said he'd get sober if he'd get "one moment of compassion" from me, at one point. So you see, if I'd only waited longer--a year, 5, 10, 20 (well, he's 60 now, so 20 is not likely), and had more compassion, he'd be able to get sober.
I'm not saying this is what your situation is or will be--just sharing my experience. I wish w/all my heart I could have had the power to make it turn out different, but he is the only one who ever knew the whole truth of what was going on at any point, and I have finally accepted that I can't change that and I don't want to live w/that.
May you find strength and clarity, and congrats on your own sobriety.
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
I have to applaud you for sticking to your own sobriety with this added challenge - I know that has to be complicated. Have you given any thought to checking into Al-Anon for some info on managing addiction from this side of things? Have you taken the time to read the sticky'd threads at the top of this forum as well? They can be incredibly helpful!
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by Nero427
So only buy the top shelf stuff then? lol
She likes vodka because it only takes a nip every now and then to keep her high. Funniest thing ever: she's open about having a bottle in the cabinet (i'd rather her be open than hiding and lying) but I've never seen her take a drink from it! It just magically disappears.
She likes vodka because it only takes a nip every now and then to keep her high. Funniest thing ever: she's open about having a bottle in the cabinet (i'd rather her be open than hiding and lying) but I've never seen her take a drink from it! It just magically disappears.
Then when she relapsed, in an attempt to hide it, (booze cost money so cheap booze is easier to disguise), she would buy wine at the gas stations she filled up at. Nasty as heII crap. She would get loaded and come home. You could smell it as she walked in the door.
You drinking? No of course not....how dare you accuse me.........so I took a pic of it. I still have the pic. The cop said "Oh yeah we call that gas station wine." He was so spot on. I never asked her again if she was drinking. Already had the proof.
It was cranberry wine. Don't ask me why the hell you get cranberry wine. Probably supposed to be easier to hide or something. Had a picture of a stripper on a pole on the label.
Probably makes Mad Dog 20/20 seem like Top Shelf stuff.
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Well the binge is over...for now. She's going to a meeting at noon today.
Evidently the drinking gave her (what I assume was) gastritis, and she was deathly sick for about 4 days, bed and bathroom, bed and bathroom. That took all the fun out of it I'm sure.
She said something funny though. "Sorry for putting you through all this". I replied "you're the one laid up in bed sick as a dog, I feel fine".
This will be my last post for a while. No need to make this a daily blog. I'll touch base in a couple of months or so. Thanks guys!
Evidently the drinking gave her (what I assume was) gastritis, and she was deathly sick for about 4 days, bed and bathroom, bed and bathroom. That took all the fun out of it I'm sure.
She said something funny though. "Sorry for putting you through all this". I replied "you're the one laid up in bed sick as a dog, I feel fine".
This will be my last post for a while. No need to make this a daily blog. I'll touch base in a couple of months or so. Thanks guys!
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