Boundaries

Old 12-17-2014, 11:57 PM
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Boundaries

Anyone else feel guilty for moving forward, putting tough law enforcing boundaries in place and looking after their own interests as opposed to the EXA Spouse/partner?
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:18 AM
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I have trouble doing it with anyone.

My mother is a narcissist so I was not taught about boundaries, I was not allowed to have boundaries and if I tried to create any, they were trampled on. So I built walls instead. Nothing got in and nothing got out.

But the wall I built did not work to keep anything out because fear got in, guilt got in, shame go in and anger got in. The only thing it kept out was love. If I loved you or you loved me, that just equaled pain for me. I lived in a very negative state of mind.

I am reaching a point in my life that I am starting to understand that boundaries are not walls. They are what I stand for, what I am willing to accept or not accept. What is my self worth and what I need to do to stand up for that and respect myself. If I don't do this, no one is going to do it for me. I must create my own boundaries. By doing this I show I respect myself and I take responsibility for myself and my own actions. I can’t continue to blame others for behaving badly if I continue to tolerate it. Their wrong does not make me right. My actions and my responsibility for them, is what I have to live with. It defines who I am and the kind of person I want to be.

Many times I said or felt I did not like something but I let others cross that line and I learned to accept the unacceptable because I was afraid. I was afraid I would not be liked or loved. I was afraid the person would walk away. I was afraid what people would think about me. I was afraid I did not have all of the information and I was always second guessing myself. This caused anger and guilt. On one side I was saying “Nobody is listening to me” and on the other I was saying “Don’t listen to me, I am sorry, I didn’t mean it, don’t be mad at me or leave”. It was a vicious cycle.

Time and time again I said "No" and time and time again I said "Okay, but this is the last time!"

I think we get to a point that we understand and realize that we have self worth. We have the right to choose and decide what is best for us and once we do that then there is no guilt, shame, fear or anger.

Am I there yet? No, but it is getting better. I am taking baby steps and as I do I feel better about boundaries because at first I was deathly afraid of them.

Every small boundary I put in place and stand by makes me a little stronger and when a person listens to that boundary and respects it, wow, that is powerful. It is validation.
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Old 12-18-2014, 06:10 AM
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Again this is not a share about a spouse/partner but my mother. I went no contact with her over the summer and it ate me up. I obsessed over her and my decision for a month. But, slowly, very slowly it has gotten better. I feel so much relief now. And gratitude. I am grateful I gave myself this gift of eliminating the most toxic person in my life. I only wish I did it sooner.

Give yourself time. It gets better and the feelings will fade away
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Old 12-18-2014, 06:16 AM
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When it comes to living with an AC.....No problem at all.
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Old 12-18-2014, 06:22 AM
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Not anymore. Like Gracie, I wasn't "allowed" boundaries around my alcoholic mother.
I had to learn about them and slowly dismantle the walls she is talking about.

Honestly, I still have some walls in place but it is a work in progress.

I think it did make me feel "guilty" at first to say no and to mean it, but now it
feels like I am supporting myself and that actually feels good and empowering.

I think it is a good thing and I wish you well killer--that space you are creating can really allow you room to heal.
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Old 12-18-2014, 06:45 AM
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I think I felt guilty at first, but that was because my AH was being a martyr/the victim and he was guilting me verbally. Once I called a program friend and thought about my boundaries, I realized that I did what was right for me and I stopped defending myself to my AH. For example: I just said, "I'm sorry you feel that way, but driving while intoxicated can kill someone including yourself. I will call the police in the future." He knows I mean it too, so he doesn't drink at home anymore when we're here. He knows he'll go out to get more because he never buys enough, lol.

I remember when I told him no when he asked me to find him a lawyer for his DUI case. He was in shock. I had never told him no before. He tried to persuade me and tell me how wonderful I was at research and how he trusts my choices, blah blah blah.....Still I said no. Then he stomped off in a huff and had to do it himself. He survived.
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Old 12-18-2014, 06:47 AM
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I didn't leave my ex when I wanted to because he'd threaten suicide. He'd tell me that I saved him, I'm the only thing he lives for, etc... He'd also drive completely drunk and while I felt horrible guilt over that, I convinced myself that at least while he was with me, I could control it a little and make everyone on the roads a little safer. I couldn't. He just started hiding his drinking and drinking in the liquor store parking lot before he'd come home. I finally realized that I had zero control over him making appropriate decisions about driving and the guilt of him driving home to our house with the possibility of killing an innocent person or family out on the road eventually got the best of me. I couldn't take that sickening worry anymore. I knew that if I left him and something happened, I'd never, ever forgive myself, but if I didn't leave him and something happened, I'd feel like an accomplice. But still, the guilt about either decision ate me up. Now, not so much -- I just worry about running into him out on the roads when he's in that condition. It disgusts me.

I'm just beginning to learn about boundaries and I still don't know where to begin - I either have zero tolerance, extremely rigid boundaries or none at all. There is no in between with me, and I'm so unsure as to how to find that gray area. Time and practice I guess.

Guilt is my middle name. I grew up Catholic with two alcoholic parents. My dad was as emotionally distant and abusive and my mom struggled with depression that she medicated with alcohol. They hated each other. Between their wars and drinking, there was no time to teach me how to to deal with life, just a lot of screaming, yelling, chaos and hatred, so I learned on my own as I went along. I still don't know what 'normal' is.

I struggle with guilt over everything! I honestly don't know what is mine to own and what isn't sometimes, because just about any decision I make to help myself makes me feel guilty. I second guess everything. EVERYTHING! I have an impossible time making decisions and even after I make them, I'm tempted to change them 100x's or second guess them until I'm physically ill.

I'm hoping that between counseling, al-anon, SR and the self help books I'm reading, there will be a light at the end of the tunnel.
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Old 12-18-2014, 06:58 AM
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Initially, yes. My thinking was sort of turned around: I felt like getting a restraining order against AXH while we were still married was "ruining his life" because his name would be in the court system and how would that affect his work life and image and reputation?

It took me a long time to both understand and accept that I didn't do it to him, he did it to himself. All I did was protect my own safety.

It was difficult for me because regardless of dysfunction, after 20 years, I had strong emotional ties to him. I (still) felt responsible for him. But a friend kept asking me, "if anyone else in the world had done to you what he has done to you -- would you feel bad about getting a restraining order against them? Would you worry about how it would affect a stranger's reputation if he had threatened to kill you and you reported the threat and got a restraining order?"
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Old 12-18-2014, 08:16 AM
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Anyone else feel guilty for moving forward, putting tough law enforcing boundaries in place and looking after their own interests as opposed to the EXA Spouse/partner?
Recovery is a process and for me it was two steps forward, one step fact. It helps me to remember that "FEELINGS AREN'T FACTS!!". Just because you feel guilty doesn't mean you've done anything wrong. After a while you'll feel good about setting boundaries.
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Old 12-18-2014, 11:39 AM
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I feel the guilt every day, but I can't allow it to direct my behavior or decide my mood. (Some days I am more successful at this than others!) Even though I've adjusted my thought processes to something much healthier, I have just enough codependent hardwiring that it's going to take a long time to change my emotional responses. I try to remember that, as NYCDoglvr posted above, my feelings aren't facts. They give me incomplete information, as in "OUCH! That hurts! That might be something important, so PAY ATTENTION!" Right now, that guilt is useful because it points out to me where my recovery isn't as strong as it should be. Not the most satisfying, but it is something I can live with for now because it's something I can use.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:33 PM
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Yes, I often feel very guilty, I am terrible with maintaining boundaries with my ex. I've been cheated on and disrespected over and over, and yet I sometimes feel panicked and guilty that I am the one living in the family home with the children, whilst he lives on his own in a flat that he keeps saying is "too cold" and which he "can't afford to heat". Once he contacts me, it's like I can't cope anymore, I panic and spend sleepless nights turning things over and over in my head. I hate that he can trigger such a reaction in me. Liking the "feelings aren't facts" thing- will try to remember that
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Old 12-19-2014, 12:47 AM
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I found this today and I thought it might help...

Practical Tips for Setting Rock-Solid Boundaries

Setting and sustaining boundaries is essential to our lives. “Boundaries give us a say in how our life goes,” according to Jan Black, author of Better Boundaries: Owning and Treasuring Your Life.
Without boundaries, we are an island with no sea wall, she said. “We are at the mercy of and must deal with whatever the ocean dumps on us.”
Boundaries create the rules for our relationships, according to Julie de Azevedo Hanks, LCSW, a relationship expert and author of The Burnout Cure: An Emotional Survival Guide for Overwhelmed Women.

She defined boundaries as “personal lines that distinguish you, your thoughts, feelings, physical self, needs and preferences from another person.”
Black defined boundaries as “a set of yes’s, no’s, maybe’s and not now’s we use as owners of our lives to keep ourselves safe and freely pursuing the path, people and activities that inspire and grow us.”

Boundaries are vital everywhere. Black gave the example of boundaries surrounding a performance. They include the date, time, place and price of tickets. They include a specific seat in a specific section and possibly a timed intermission. Some doors are open; others are off limits. If a person doesn’t follow these boundaries, there are consequences.

These types of boundaries give artists the opportunity to put on their best performance, Black said. Without them, the concert would be disappointing and even dangerous, she said. “The same is true of our lives. Our boundaries can put us in the best position to perform what is required to live and give from the center of who we are.”
Many of us make mistakes when building our boundaries. We might let others guilt us out of maintaining certain limits, forget that we can adjust our boundaries when circumstances change, apologize or overexplain our decisions or give up when setting boundaries becomes too tough, Black said.
We might set boundaries that are too weak, Hanks said. “It’s like setting up a fence that doesn’t have any end posts set firmly in the ground: anyone can push it over.” Or we might set boundaries that are too rigid — building a fence that has no gate and is so deep and high that no one can get in, she said.
Boundary setting is an acquired skill. It’s akin to learning to walk, talk or ride a bike, Black said. “Yes, there may be crashes and falls at first, but you’ll get the hang of it if you stick with it.”

Here are four suggestions for setting rock-solid boundaries.

1. Focus on your values.
“When we value something enough, we protect it,” Black said. “Our desire for that becomes stronger than our neediness to live by the opinions and preferences others have for us.”
Your values may include your priorities, a specific idea, dream or calling. For instance, when her health declined, Black decided to draw lines around how she rested, what she ate and who she allowed to educate her about her condition.
“My motivation to be healthy rearranged what I would and would not let into my life. The boundaries I have installed around my health have put me in the best possible position to heal, even thrive.”

2. Value yourself.

Black also stressed the importance of valuing yourself. If you struggle with valuing yourself, she suggested taking on the perspective of your loved one.
“When faced with a choice about whether or not something is in your best interest, ask yourself how you would hope your best friend or dear loved one would choose. Then do that for yourself.”
Over time, with more practice, setting healthy, protective boundaries will become more natural. “Boundaries show you treasure your life as your own best friend.”

3. Back up verbal requests with behavior.

When someone crosses your boundary, it’s important to follow through by taking action. Hanks gave the following example: Let’s say your friend has been complaining to you about her ex-husband for five years. You find it incredibly draining. When she starts complaining, you remind her about your boundary. If she continues complaining, and you’re on the phone, you say that you need to go, and hang up. If you’re speaking in person, you get up, and leave.

4. Be specific.

When someone has crossed your boundary, share a specific, detailed response. According to Hanks, rather than saying “You’re so controlling,” say: “When I gave my feedback in the meeting yesterday, it seemed like you quickly dismissed it without consideration. That hurt and I didn’t like it. Will you be aware of that next time? I’d like at least a few minutes to share my ideas with the team.”

Boundaries are key for your well-being and your relationships. In fact, they’re essential “if you want to live a life you love,” Black said.

When we take ourselves and our priorities seriously, others will, too, she said.

“Boundaries show we are serious about living our lives in ways we believe are best for us. The people around us will adjust to them or leave. Bless them either way.”
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Old 12-19-2014, 03:21 AM
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My mother is a narcissist so I was not taught about boundaries, I was not allowed to have boundaries and if I tried to create any, they were trampled on. So I built walls instead. Nothing got in and nothing got out.
Same here! Great post.
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