KidsR#1

It's been 2 months today that I kicked my AH out after he went on a binge drinking. I have known the whole time that he wants to move back in, but for some reason I keep hesitating. Frankly I 'm scared, not of him, but of things falling apart and the kids getting hurt in the process. I always thought that we would work through this and he would move back. Was trying to give him the space I thought he needed to get some sobriety under his belt. It was also a chance for me to sort through things as to what I want.

Tonight we were finally able to have a conversation about our marriage without any kids around. He still wants to come home and is miserable where he is at, staying alone, with no heat, at a friend's house. He told me that he has not been drunk for 2 months but when I asked if that is his last time he drank he admitted to having a beer a few times after driving home from visiting us because he is so sad. Our visits go great until at some point his attitude changes (it is always close to when it is time for him to head out.)

All along I have suggested that we get some marriage counseling and his response has always been that he didn't want us to see his therapist. I get that and was totally in favor of seeing someone neutral. He hasn't seen his counselor in a few weeks and I really pushed for an answer why ( I had assumed it was because they had last discussed something that he didn't agree with.) He told me it is because she is really negative. Then went on to say that she suggested he get a divorce so that there is a clean break. He said he doesn't want a divorce.

He told me tonight that if I want a divorce then we need to get that done as he would probably be ready to date in a few months. We also would need to refinance the mortgage so he can have some money to pay rent somewhere (as he is living free for now.) huh, I never said that I wanted a divorce but is that the message I am sending him by not letting him move back in. Or is he just trying to force my hand in making a decision before I am ready.

Needed to write and vent as I am not sure who to talk to about this right now.

Wisconsin

Sounds like quite a lot of quacking to me. He wants YOU to decide now because he will be ready to date in a few months?!?

Hang in there. Based on what little I know, you are 100% right NOT to let him come home.

suki44883

Yep...he's ready to date in a few months if you won't cave into his quacking. That says a whole lot right there. He needs someone and if it isn't you, he needs to get going on finding someone else.

Is that really what you want to be? I think you deserve better.

amy55

Hearing something like that would make feel like I was disposable. I can understand why you are angry. It is manipulation.

You really do deserve better then this.

((((((((((hugs))))))))
amy

LoveMeNow

Nothing has changed. He is still drinking! Can you live with him back home and drinking??

Oh and my STBXH tried the same exact manipulation tactic. He knew so well how to play on my fears.

GracieLou

It is instinct to protect yourself and your children. Listen to it!

He is still drinking, period. He only admitted it so he could add the spin that he only does it because he is sad. He was trying to use it to manipulate your feelings otherwise he would not admit it at all and I could bet it was more than a beer. This is BS. He drinks because he wants to.

This is also manipulation. He put this in the air to make you panic. To second guess your decision. To create fear. He is trying to get you to back off and take him back.

The only message you are sending to him is that you are not going to stand for it anymore and he does not like it. Of course he wants to come home to a cozy warm house where he can drink, eat and sleep in comfort. He is taking no responsibility for his actions or the consequences of those actions. He is putting everything on you. He wants you to make the decision so he can blame you instead of looking at himself.

He is sad, your fault. He drinks, your fault. He wants you to hurry up with a divorce you never asked for, your fault. He is going date again, your fault. He does not want you to see therapist, therapists fault. The place he stays at has no heat, friends fault and your fault. Nothing is his fault. Nothing is his own making.

Sign nothing and agree to nothing. The only thing you have to do is take care of you and your children.

FeelingGreat

Hi Kids
These are the impressions I got from what you wrote. Putting them out there for your consideration:
- he doesn't want you to see his therapist together. It might be because he's lying to her about something and you would expose it.
- he's ok on the home visits until it gets close to his drinking time, remembering he's gone the whole day without a drop so he'll be sober for the visits
- he is already thinking about dating

KidsR#1

I didn't sleep great- kept waking up and thinking about our conversation. I know he is trying to manipulate me. It is all about him and his convenience, even his Best friend pointed that out to me a few weeks ago.

Ironic how we were separated yrs ago because he needed whatever (time, space, etc.) and I gave him over a yr before I finally had enough. We started the process of getting separated formally and he changed his mind and wanted to come home. Why is is now, when we have kids in the mix, I don't get the same amount of time?

He also talked about that I would probably be ready to date someone in a few months as well. Nope, I have 2 small kids and how would I explain that to them or even feel ok having someone babysit while I go out on a date.

My gut tells me is has been more than just the 4 beers he has admitted too.

MissFixit

My ex cheated, so I have a different view of these situations per my experience.

If he is rushing you to make a move towards divorce and already saying he will be ready to start dating soon, my bet is he has already met someone else. Whether he has acted on it or is thinking about it, who knows, but he wouldn't be talking about dating other people if it wasn't on the forefront of his mind. He gave you time before and now doesn't, so what has changed for him????

My ex used to keep people separated so they would not come together to discuss the lies he told. I think hubs doesn't want you and his T to talk and exchange notes. I would not believe for a second that T told him to get a divorce out of the blue. T usually don't tell patients what to do. IF T said that, it might be more like T knows he has wandering eyes and hubs wants to pursue that.

Hugs to you

FeelingGreat

Believe your gut; it's almost impossible to tell the truth about how much you drink, if you've got a problem. Been there myself. Another pointer is the way he acts at the end of visits.

CodeJob

Oh Kids, I am reading along. If he was sober, is there anything left to this marriage?

I think he is lying about his counselor. I bet $ the truth is he said if you keep drinking you are heading for divorce. So now he wants one so he CAN keep drinking with his share of assets. But he wants you to initiate so you play the bad guy?

LadyinBC

Don't let anyone rush your decision. You are hesitating for a reason and your gut is telling you something. Follow your instincts and your head, not your heart. Your gut feeling is seldom wrong.

ladyscribbler

My ex said most of that same stuff during our "temporary" separation. The truth was, he was drinking the entire time, worse than ever because he was on his own with just his drinking buddies. There was no counselor, no meetings, which he claimed to be going to. Just the same guy he'd been lying to down at the VA for three years.
He even said to me that "quitting was never part of the deal" he was just going to learn to control it so "we" could have a glass of wine or a beer once in a while, no hard liquor, because that was the real problem.
He hadn't changed at all, he was desperate to protect his right and ability to drink at all costs, even if it cost him his family, which it finally did. I was the one who was different. I had educated myself about alcoholism and I realized that he had no problem with his drinking and raging. I was the one who had a problem with it.

Thumper

I agree with the previous posters. I want to send you some support. This place you are in is a sad/painful one.

You can get through this. You don't have to act or do anything or change your mind because of his mean manipulations. Remember - if he was sincere in anything he would not be treating you this way. You are taking care of and protecting your kids and listening to your instincts. Your focus is in the right place and you are doing well. Hang in there, as they say, more will be revealed.

FireSprite

Holy Quackfest, Kids. I'm glad you see this manipulation for what it is.

No talk/walk about commitment to sobriety? No talk/walk of working a recovery?

But he needs you to be the bad guy so he can enlist his Successor Enabler asap & use his share of your assets to fund his recommitment to addiction. After 2 WHOLE months or dealing with the consequences/discomfort of his OWN actions & choices. He's so ready to move on vs. working on fixing what he has. Nice.

During my big rock bottom moment (which actually lasted for a full weekend) I remember going spastic on AH when he said he "Just didn't know WHAT he wanted....". That comment put me way over my limit & I heard myself saying things before I was even thinking them - "You don't know WHAT you want??? Guess what? I know what *I* want & I know what *I* DESERVE & it ISN'T THIS." Then I went directly to his closet with a sack of garbage bags & packed every single thing he still had left behind (we were already separated) & started loading them onto his truck.

After all he had put ME through (nevermind DD!) & all the ways he had made me feel less-than, all the venom he had spewed at me showing me exactly WHO & WHAT he had become, HE didn't even have the cojones to be the one to walk away. (for the record, he was still actively drinking, heavily, during this time & I while I knew he drank, I had no clue about the volume & that it had gone so far beyond social drinking.)

And I also think he's lying about his therapist suggesting the divorce in order to "get a clean break". That's a pretty dramatic suggestion for a therapist to suggest in this kind of situation, when divorce hadn't even really been discussed between you & with kids involved, don't you think?

KidsR#1

Thanks everyone for pointing out what I knew already deep down. It's tough, because we have days like today where we did stuff as a family, he took DD to a game at the school, got some of the fall work chores done and it felt so.... normal.

Then when he left it was so hard to say goodbye and makes me wonder what is best for me and the kids.

KidsR#1

I have decided that if he bring up the divorce again that he can go ahead and do what he needs to if he thinks it is best for him. (Put the ball back in his side of the court per see.) I can't make him stay married and come back to us sober. I think he would drag his feet in getting anything started with a divorce.

I have also known that sometimes people do work their recoveries and just don't work anymore, they come to realize.

I do hope that with time he will work on his recovery/sobriety and we can go back to our "normal" before all **** broke loose the last yr or so. Only time will tell.

ladyscribbler

That was the hardest part of being in a relationship with a binge drinker. Those "normal" times kept me hooked for so long. Because the lows were so low, I hung onto those good times and relied on that fleeting bit of happiness and hope to pull me out of the deep sadness I felt when he binged.
Maybe it would have been easier for me to end things if he had been consistently bad. He did get that way toward the end as his disease progressed and the time between binges dwindled and disappeared altogether, and that was when I finally left.
I hope that your husband reaches for recovery. You are using your head and keeping your priorities straight and you and your kids will be fine, whatever happens. Big hugs.

Hopeworks

Having lived the binge drinker master manipulator roller coaster for many years I am so sympathetic to your situation...thank goodness I didn't have children with him although I had his children in my heart. Of course... creating boundaries for myself protected me from his inevitable decision to drink (this is WHAT they do!) that led to his leaving the state to drink unmolested by anyone in Las Vegas, LA, New Orleans and Phoenix over the last 3 years. Once we were split up I didn't get to see his kids who were left with the A's ex wife....I still miss them. But that is what happens when you depend on the untrustworthy with your own heart and life.

In looking back on the 4 years I rode the runaway alcoholic train I can see so clearly how many times I was manipulated... down deep I knew it wasn't solid and he wasn't as committed as I thought he needed to be... and I was right.

Here is what I learned about myself: To keep hanging on I would deny what my head and heart knew all along. He was playing the part...very well of course... a master actor when he would feel his hold on me slipping away.

It comes down to a line in the sand and hard choices for ourselves... if they are not intensely committed to authentic change and recovery it is pretty darn hopeless. The alcoholic dance can go on for decades before the pain and destruction drives us to finally save ourselves and our children who are so at risk with an alcoholic parent.

If I had a do-ever I would have done what I did after years of pleading, begging and manipulating myself to "stop him from drinking". Create a no alcohol boundary and a year of authentic active recovery before considering a relationship.

4 years ago I set that boundary and he has never made it yet. 8 months is the longest he has remained sober. Today he is another rehab and he sounds great and is saying all the right things... he wants to be the most amazing and loving boyfriend for the rest of my life.

It sounds wonderful...and I still love him awful. Always will. He is no doubt my soul mate...but he is an alcoholic and I fully understand what that means. He is in a Christ centered program that is excellent and it could happen... it really could.

The Hebrews wandered in the desert for 40 years trying to figure out how to obey God and an entire generation never walking into the promises. I figure one year of being on his own and living an alcohol free life of integrity, honesty and intense work on himself is not too much to ask after 4 years of living hell and then 4 more years of watching him drink like a fish across the country. That I would even consider an alcoholic in my life is a huge change from a few years ago...of course, I am older and I will never intertwine my life or finances with even a recovered alcoholic. If he makes it a full year and I see authentic change I could see a date in my future...the last time we talked about this was two years and we were going to meet in Tahiti last September. He drank in July. My risk is minimal of getting involved with my A again... and trust me WE LOVE EACH OTHER! Its insane... truly it is...but I am smart enough to keep my distance until I KNOW that the miracle has happened.

If the father of you children isn't willing to invest a year of his life DEMONSTRATING his commitment to his family...his kids and yourself that he in 100% committed to doing whatever it takes to figure out WHY He drinks alcoholically and how he can be a better father and husband.... well...that's your answer isn't it?

Without trust in our mate what do we have? Do we want to be on the Titanic with them? Will they step over us onto the lifeboat? Their selfishness and crazy thinking is so out there.... but we have to heal and find truth ourselves to see how our own reality has become distorted.

Take care of you... and those kids. Protect them from the damages of a daddy who is not willing to stop drinking and work on becoming the best daddy he can be.

NYCDoglvr

His statement means: give me what I want or I will divorce and replace you. Pure manipulation. Alcoholics try to hang on to enablers so they can continue drinking. If that doesn't work they quickly find a new enabler.