irisgardens

I felt the same as you when I first went into alanon...and ACOA...19 years ago...and I have needed to work my program as things just kept coming up...new addictions for my loved ones...struggling to work on my own addictions...the deepest one eating. I am still working my program. Right now, I have no idea whether there is a family for me or not. I am the only one who has been willing to work on my own personal recovery...and the emotions have been so tough...and overwhelming...and seemingly, unless I am completely weak and powerless...no reaction or notice. I am here for me today...and for 4 months now...I have gone down with my addicts so many times I finally realized that I might have hit rock bottom...and that I need to figure out now what to do for me. Have no real idea...but take the steps and do my program and pray.
I hope that you can hear the good advice here...I couldn't and I have far less me today than I did then...and we have to take care of ourselves...struggling to do that today...and I will. I am hoping that the bottom I reached emotionally this time will not last...I am working my program as if my life depends upon it...it does.

Christopher1

Couldn't agree more:when I first came here I was DESPERATE to stop my partner drinking and had run out of options-literally NOTHING I tried had worked. Working on MY behaviour has helped me to realise just how unhealthy I was(and still am ,in many ways). Believe me,I was very sceptical about what people were saying but when you begin to look at your own involvement and make changes ,you feel more empowered .Some small changes that I have made such as being clear with my partner,in a respectful way,that some of her behaviour towards me I am now not willing to accept seems to have had a knock -on effect in that there are differences I can see in her-nothing major ,but it's a start.This site and getting an addictions counsellor is helping me -could do the same for you?

maia1234

Rev, I am sorry, but welcome to the club. It is a crappy club to belong too. No one wants to love a selfish addict, but we all do. The reality is the healthier you become the healthier she will become. When you learn not to enable her and be codependent to her she will be on her own. You are changing the rules, not her.

There is no sheet of paper in Alanon that says "how do I get my spouse sober". It doesn't work that way as you can see above. You need to educate, read, attend open AA meetings, go to alanon meetings. HELP yourself and then you will understand the addict.

I wish you luck in your journey, you have a lot of friends already here to help you on the bad days. Good luck and take care of you!!

Cyranoak

...and see what happens. It is only by focusing on yourself that marriage with an alcholic has any chance at all-- and it's a very slim chance.

This comes from somebody who spent several years trying to drag my wife into the boat. When I let go, when I started to focus on myself and leave her to face the true consequences of her drinking, did things start to improve.

Fourteen years later we, at least right now, survive and it's all because I went to Alanon, and kept going back-- for a long, long time.

Cyranoak

P.s. I didn't save my spouse. She saved herself. It started happening right after I stopped trying to drag her in the boat, took my focus off of her, and put it on myself using the tools I learned in Alanon.

NYCDoglvr

As a recovering alcoholic (23 years) I know there's nothing anyone can do or say that will keep an alcoholic from drinking. "I'm powerless over people, places and things," is an Alanon saying. Alcoholism is an obssession, an addiction and it's progressive. If you want to stay with your wife, Alanon can teach you how to accept her as she is (if that's what you want), and how to leave if you ever decide you can't take it any longer. The hallmarks of addiction (both alcoholism and codependency) are denial and rationalization. Alanon can help cut through that and get to reality.

BlueChair

Rev 3:16

(So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot)

You know there are other options for family members, don’t know if you have looked at any of these but I would suggest the one Im learning now called CRAFT. Community Reinforcement and Family Training. It keeps the focus on you and your health as the primary concern. It also helps you identify and change patterns of behavior your unhappy with in your life, but doesn’t label as codependency. The other good thing is with this program your loved one is not left out. It has been scientifically proven to help us get our loved ones into treatment for their addiction, and support their recovery where its healthy for us too. Its focuses a lot on learning how to communicate with a substance abuser, and how to use positive reinforcements, along with allowing the natural negative consequences of their addiction to occur. Its not about our saving them, its about using our relationship and influence to help them break free of denial to a point where they realize they have a problem and want to seek help for themselves.

You can learn it through several books: Get Your Loved one Sober, Alternatives to nagging, pleading, threatening by Meyers. Beyond Addiction How Science and Kindness help people change by Wilkens, Foote. You can learn it through SMART recovery, and they have been around over 20 years with face to face or online support. These are just a few ways.

Here is one link that shares a good overview:
The Partner's 20 Minute Guide - The 20 Minute Guide

Woodeye

Rev, it hurts, but you cannot save your wife from this. As others have said, only she can do that. Work on yourself, pray for your wife and hopefully in time you will both be on solid ground.

Hammer

So . . . how's that working for you?t

Are you willing to Stop trying?

I mean, if Stop trying is the best course . . . are you willing to Stop trying?

Naw. Like you observed, most are lucky to just save themselves, and hopefully the kids, if any are involved.

God is the one in the Saving Business.

Between God, A Faith Based Community (Like AA), their "Holy Books" (like the AA Big Book), A Good Sponsor, and maybe a Good Therapist . . . she may make it.

But from that list . . .

I do not think that YOU are:

God,
AA,
an Author of such work,
an AA Sponsor, nor
a Therapist . . .

Are you? If not -- you have no business in her business.

You may have to learn what you are trying to not learn from Alanon -- Save Yourself, Superman.

Rev 3:16

Away from home and writing with tiny keyboard. But want to thank everyone for comments and insight. I guess we all think we're the exception at first. Will write more when home.

NWGRITS

We call that "terminal uniqueness". My alcoholic isn't like all of your alcoholics. What we have is special. I'm not like any of you because I'm going to get my spouse sober. What we have is just different.

Any of those thoughts sound familiar? If we made a list of most commonly uttered phrases from newcomers, those would probably be near the top. You are not the first to find yourself on this rollercoaster, and you certainly won't be the last. The people here have been through just about every situation imaginable. You can be confident that what we say is coming from a place of knowledge and experience. We are here to help you however we can.

redatlanta

Rev 3:16 your feeling or wish to save your wife is normal. Think of alcoholism as any disease - to cure, or manage any disease or illness requires the participation of the person who is sick.

In life wanting something more for someone than they want for themselves = door slammed in face.

cynical one

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Interesting. Curious why you chose this??

littlesister1

I really needed to read that, thank you!

Hawks

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

My take on this .......

Like most things in the Bible, its a parable. Not literal.

Cold (again not literal) people would be those who are struggling badly with life / addiction etc ... and although they may not know it & although they may not ever turn to God .... it wouldn't hurt if they did. God sees the struggle and is waiting to help, but first they have to ask. God doesn't come uninvited. We have free will.

The hot are those who have turned to God. Fire in your belly ... passionate about Gods love.

People can also go from hot to lukewarm .... in other words, they turn to God when the pressure is on ... when the pressure is off they resume their old ways of thinking & acting. Thanks for the help God .... I'll take it from here.

God sees this & "detaches with love" .... Ok, I'll be here if you need me again, good luck.

If people can chug along through life without ever needing God ... fantastic, great work, keep it up. They are the lukewarm too.
God isn't literally "spewing them out" rather just saying "seems I'm not needed here .. OK... cool."

I'll be here if you ever run cold.

fairlyuncertain

I like the lifeboat metaphor. But the reality is this: alcoholics are swimming, and you can throw them enough life preservers to blanket the ocean, and they'll keep splashing and struggling. You could even risk your life to haul them back in the boat. And guess what? They'll jump right back in the water.

So what can you do? Al anon really will teach you how to be healthy. How to get your life ship-shape, if you will Then, if your wife chooses to hop aboard, you'll have a sound boat.

Really, we have to work on ourselves. We can't make someone else the way we want them to be. And isn't that a miracle--because my A would have made me into a doormat/punching bag/drinking buddy!! No thanks!!

maia1234

Rev- I found this post on the Alcoholism forum. I thought of you and wanted to post it for you to read.

If you love me let me fall all by myself. Don't try to spread a net out to catch me, don't throw a pillow under my a** to cushion the pain so I don't have to feel it, don't stand in the place I am going to land so that you can break the fall (allowing yourself to get hurt instead of me) ...

Let me fall as far down as my addiction is going to take me, let me walk the valley alone all by myself, let me reach the bottom of the pit ... trust that there is a bottom there somewhere even if you can't see it. The sooner you stop saving me from myself, stop rescuing me, trying to fix my broken-ness, trying to understand me to a fault, enabling me ...

The sooner you allow me to feel the loss and consequences, the burden of my addiction on my shoulders and not yours ... the sooner I will arrive ... and on time ... just right where I need to be ... me, alone, all by myself in the rubble of the lifestyle I lead ... resist the urge to pull me out because that will only put me back at square one ... If I am allowed to stay at the bottom and live there for awhile ...

I am free to get sick of it on my own, free to begin to want out, free to look for a way out, and free to plan how I will climb back up to the top. In the beginning as I start to climb out .. I just might slide back down, but don't worry I might have to hit bottom a couple more times before I make it out safe and sound ... Don't you see ?? Don't you know ?? You can't do this for me ... I have to do it for myself, but if you are always breaking the fall how am I ever suppose to feel the pain that is part of the driving force to want to get well. It is my burden to carry, not yours ...

I know you love me and that you mean well and a lot of what you do is because you don't know what to do and you act from your heart not from knowledge of what is best for me ... but if you truly love me let me go my own way, make my own choices be they bad or good ... don't clip my wings before I can learn to fly ... Nudge me out of your safety net ... trust the process and pray for me ... that one day I will not only fly, but maybe even soar.

Rev 3:16

It was a part of a Lutheran Catechism lesson that has stuck with me through the decades. Also, it's written on the side of a can of fetid demons of my past, of lost loves, lost opportunities and lost hopes. Maybe I'll write about it elsewhere.

But, it's also the reason I'm looking to help my wife and not be a passive observer of her self-destruction. I truly do understand what many have been saying about saving myself and that ultimately will help her. What I want may conflict with that reality experienced by others. I'm looking for the other exceptions who have each lifted the other up.

Many thanks for your insights and concern. I feel welcome here.

honeypig

So has pretty much everyone else who's ever come here, Rev.

I hope you had a chance to check out the 2 links I sent you in my prior post here. This one may be useful also:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...s-stories.html

Glad you feel welcome and hope you keep coming back!

honeypig

sorry, double post.

FireSprite

With all due respect & speaking strictly for me:

When I saved myself that IS how I went from passive to active. I had been deluding myself into thinking I was helping by way of all of my enabling. I was in denial about reality, doing little more than consistently accepting unacceptable behavior. And that was changing who *I* was as a person because in order to make the unacceptable more palatable I kept slowly lowering my own expectations of acceptable behavior as well.

When I got healthy myself I also gave him the dignity of saving himself by getting out of his way. It was My Own Ego refusing to allow me to accept that he had the ability to handle it on his own, I can see that now. *I* had unwittingly given up on him, deeming him incapable of handling his own life decisions.

That doesn't mean I abandoned him or spurned him or turned into a cold, negative force - it just means that I took off the blinders, called things for what they really were (it's a spade!) & stopped accepting the unacceptable.

I'm never going to apologize for standing up for myself or prioritizing my own needs in life or in my relationship. If my being healthy emotionally is a threat to my relationship, what kind of relationship do I have?