Dating an alcoholic...
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,572
Originally Posted by heartcore 
Ms. FixIt, Shooting Star, & Eauchiche -
It just makes me sad that sometimes an active addict and one in recovery (which as we know is a brave journey that takes an incredible amount of strength and willingness to undertake) are considered as a single "type."
It just makes me sad that sometimes an active addict and one in recovery (which as we know is a brave journey that takes an incredible amount of strength and willingness to undertake) are considered as a single "type."
I do think we are forgetting the third "type": the non-drinking addict who is not in recovery. The original poster posited that her fella seems like a dry drunk. My experience is that most folks in the F&F forum feel that people who are not drinking but also not in recovery exhibit many of the same dysfunctions as active addicts.
For most of us the bottom line is that indeed, recovery is a brave journey that takes an incredible amount of strength and willingness to undertake. Recovery for addicts AND recovery for us. And it has to be a journey that is undertaken largely from within. Most of us have endured thousands of abuses, large and small, over the years at the hands of addicts (and played an active and enabling roll in the whole toxic situation). Many of us have heard countless promises to quit, to moderate, to improve damaging behavior. I, for one, am simply not capable of doing anything more than supporting from a distance someone else's recovery. I have my own dysfunction to work on, and three kids to raise.
I have nothing but respect for a person who takes a long, hard look at him or herself and identifies things that need to be changed, and then does the hard work to ACTUALLY change. I think it is one of the hardest things a human being can do. I applaud everyone in recovery...real recovery...from addiction, from co-dependency, from anything. And I applaud anyone (especially someone with kids at home) who is deliberately keeping someone else at arm's length out of concern that purported recovery may not be entirely sincere. There's no rush here, and while loneliness may not "legitimize" recovery, I do believe there is something to be said for keeping your focus inward when you're struggling with the worst of the worst of what's inside you, whether you are an addict, or co-dependent, or whatever.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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You've only known him for 2 months,it's a young relationship.
Maybe it would be easier to go out with someone who isn't an alcoholic in early recovery.
Maybe it would be easier to go out with someone who isn't an alcoholic in early recovery.
Originally Posted by jewelsmn
This is going to be kind of hard for me to explain but I will try. R has been in recovery this time and is 9 months sober. He lives in a sober house right now. He has been in many recovery places prior to meeting me. He has been an alcoholic for as long as he can remember. He has been married a couple times but he has never been a violent alcoholic. With that said, He seems like he has his ducks in a row right now. What freaks me out at times is how he can talk about drinking and how much he could drink in one sitting. He doesn't talk about this in front of my daughter (Thank the Lord). But at times this kind of talk makes me uncomfortable. We have been seeing each other for nearly 2 months now. I know its a really new relationship. He/We have been going slow because that is what he wants. He says he can't just jump into things. He is taking one thing at a time. I get that too. I am ok with the slow relationship, it's different but nice for me. I don't feel used.
Problem is he is so super quiet at times. Though he is sometimes just ready to talk about all that he has gone though, like it's a medal of honor. This kind of makes me uncomfortable.
I want to love this guy. He is kind to me and my daughter. He wants to do things outside and have fun...walks, pumpkin patch, frisbee, anything until the snow flies around here. It's great having someone to just have adult conversations with. K and I have been single mom and daughter for 11 years. I have been running into some problems with K being sometimes rude and angry at him. I think this is normal....she is having this change with a man in the house every once in a while. He does back up what I say.
How do I love this guy and not get caught up in his stuff. To me, he seems like a dry drunk. I don't know. (I am studying to be a drug and alcohol counsleor). What's next for me?
juliemn
Problem is he is so super quiet at times. Though he is sometimes just ready to talk about all that he has gone though, like it's a medal of honor. This kind of makes me uncomfortable.
I want to love this guy. He is kind to me and my daughter. He wants to do things outside and have fun...walks, pumpkin patch, frisbee, anything until the snow flies around here. It's great having someone to just have adult conversations with. K and I have been single mom and daughter for 11 years. I have been running into some problems with K being sometimes rude and angry at him. I think this is normal....she is having this change with a man in the house every once in a while. He does back up what I say.
How do I love this guy and not get caught up in his stuff. To me, he seems like a dry drunk. I don't know. (I am studying to be a drug and alcohol counsleor). What's next for me?
juliemn
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 985
OK, team, I'll step down from the discussion. No harm intended, and certainly I wasn't encouraging anyone not to listen to their intuition or register possible red flags. I am also codependent, have many loved ones who are addicts or alcoholics, and often respond and post on this forum.
My advice was to the poster in my initial posting was: "So, the very good questions posed have to do with how this person is treating you right now. How you enjoy their company right now. What your gut tells you about this right now. Most importantly, if the dynamic in the relationship is causing you to not be true to yourself or you feel that you are giving parts of yourself away, then it is not a positive relationship."
All of us are here because we love or have loved alcoholics, and struggled to find our selves and our strength to be ourselves inside that relationship and - sometimes - after that relationship did not succeed.
I was certainly not advocating putting the needs of the alcoholic before her own or her daughter's. I simply think that there are some pretty neat people out there who ultimately find their way to recovery, and stay clean and sober. I believe that you can design an early relationship with intention to stay safe and protected, should things not work out.
Were it me, I would limit contact with my daughter until the potential partner had considerable recovery under his belt and not diminish any aspects of my own life in exploring this dating relationship. In any growing relationship that involves a child, I think it is critical to continue spending lots of alone time with the child, so that you remain their primary adult. Playing family before you actually are a family feels good if you've been parenting alone for a while, but is an over-investment in a tentative and very new relationship.
Oh, and, I wouldn't entertain any discussion or consideration of his moving in with me, not for a very long time. He is in a transitional living environment now, and needs the experience of living sober as fully self sufficient for quite a while. But you said that he is very clear that he wants to take this slow, so he should be on board with that boundary.
Good luck!!
My advice was to the poster in my initial posting was: "So, the very good questions posed have to do with how this person is treating you right now. How you enjoy their company right now. What your gut tells you about this right now. Most importantly, if the dynamic in the relationship is causing you to not be true to yourself or you feel that you are giving parts of yourself away, then it is not a positive relationship."
All of us are here because we love or have loved alcoholics, and struggled to find our selves and our strength to be ourselves inside that relationship and - sometimes - after that relationship did not succeed.
I was certainly not advocating putting the needs of the alcoholic before her own or her daughter's. I simply think that there are some pretty neat people out there who ultimately find their way to recovery, and stay clean and sober. I believe that you can design an early relationship with intention to stay safe and protected, should things not work out.
Were it me, I would limit contact with my daughter until the potential partner had considerable recovery under his belt and not diminish any aspects of my own life in exploring this dating relationship. In any growing relationship that involves a child, I think it is critical to continue spending lots of alone time with the child, so that you remain their primary adult. Playing family before you actually are a family feels good if you've been parenting alone for a while, but is an over-investment in a tentative and very new relationship.
Oh, and, I wouldn't entertain any discussion or consideration of his moving in with me, not for a very long time. He is in a transitional living environment now, and needs the experience of living sober as fully self sufficient for quite a while. But you said that he is very clear that he wants to take this slow, so he should be on board with that boundary.
Good luck!!
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 565
Originally Posted by heartcore
Oh, and, I wouldn't entertain any discussion or consideration of his moving in with me, not for a very long time. He is in a transitional living environment now, and needs the experience of living sober as fully self sufficient for quite a while.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Heartcore -- even though it may seem like we are talking about you -- we are not -- it is about us.
Having been in the wreck, we would tend to advise others to not take the ride.
Really has nothing to do with you, at all. And that is all Ok.
Having been in the wreck, we would tend to advise others to not take the ride.
Really has nothing to do with you, at all. And that is all Ok.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 985
Hammer -
I don't feel like you're talking about me at all...and I am also part of the us, as a person seeking to develop healthy and appropriate boundaries in relationship. Many of us fit into both categories...
I don't lie or be unfaithful or abuse or steal or spend money that belongs to others or strike or watch porn or hide bottles or misrepresent or sneak drinks or vomit on the sofa or disappear for days or go to the ER or forget Christmas. Didn't when I drank and don't as a recovering alcoholic.
There are lots of types of alcoholics, just like there are lots of types of people.
I'm codependent, too, and have had relationships with abusers who have hurt me in different ways. That's why I post here. Not all alcoholics are abusive. Not all abusers are alcoholic.
I always give very strong "flee, before it gets worse" messages to posters who express that they are in a destructive relationship. I didn't hear that in this original post. What I heard was someone asking - "is it possible to be in a good relationship with someone in recovery?"
When we answer posts, we don't know the parties involved. Someone identifying as an alcoholic doesn't come with an automatic list of behaviors or history. I have never gotten a speeding ticket, have never been to jail, have never lost a job, etc. No one I've ever been involved with has ever suggested that I needed to quit drinking. I don't like the way drinking made me feel about myself or what I might be doing to my health, yet I kept drinking, and thus I am an alcoholic. I love being in recovery and feel like it is a powerful forum for growth as a human - both aa and alanon.
I'm just sometimes surprised at the automatic "its gonna be a wreck" advice. Nothing personal taken, I promise. I am simply trying to balance the voices here for the new arrivals.
Melody Beattie, writer of co-dependent no more, is a recovering addict and alcoholic. I would absolutely feel comfortable that she would be a healthy candidate for relationship. Many folks on here have experienced both ends of the spectrum and are active on both boards. Hopefully none of us take any of it too personally, and are all trying to grow and understand from every available angle...
It feels weird that you are making me the "you" as differentiated from the "us." I wouldn't post here if I weren't "us." I have bravely ended negative relationships with substance abusers, I have done the work to build boundaries in my relationship with my addicted daughter, and I have come to peace with my alcoholic mother. There are many solutions, each as individual as the person they concern.
I don't feel like you're talking about me at all...and I am also part of the us, as a person seeking to develop healthy and appropriate boundaries in relationship. Many of us fit into both categories...
I don't lie or be unfaithful or abuse or steal or spend money that belongs to others or strike or watch porn or hide bottles or misrepresent or sneak drinks or vomit on the sofa or disappear for days or go to the ER or forget Christmas. Didn't when I drank and don't as a recovering alcoholic.
There are lots of types of alcoholics, just like there are lots of types of people.
I'm codependent, too, and have had relationships with abusers who have hurt me in different ways. That's why I post here. Not all alcoholics are abusive. Not all abusers are alcoholic.
I always give very strong "flee, before it gets worse" messages to posters who express that they are in a destructive relationship. I didn't hear that in this original post. What I heard was someone asking - "is it possible to be in a good relationship with someone in recovery?"
When we answer posts, we don't know the parties involved. Someone identifying as an alcoholic doesn't come with an automatic list of behaviors or history. I have never gotten a speeding ticket, have never been to jail, have never lost a job, etc. No one I've ever been involved with has ever suggested that I needed to quit drinking. I don't like the way drinking made me feel about myself or what I might be doing to my health, yet I kept drinking, and thus I am an alcoholic. I love being in recovery and feel like it is a powerful forum for growth as a human - both aa and alanon.
I'm just sometimes surprised at the automatic "its gonna be a wreck" advice. Nothing personal taken, I promise. I am simply trying to balance the voices here for the new arrivals.
Melody Beattie, writer of co-dependent no more, is a recovering addict and alcoholic. I would absolutely feel comfortable that she would be a healthy candidate for relationship. Many folks on here have experienced both ends of the spectrum and are active on both boards. Hopefully none of us take any of it too personally, and are all trying to grow and understand from every available angle...
It feels weird that you are making me the "you" as differentiated from the "us." I wouldn't post here if I weren't "us." I have bravely ended negative relationships with substance abusers, I have done the work to build boundaries in my relationship with my addicted daughter, and I have come to peace with my alcoholic mother. There are many solutions, each as individual as the person they concern.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
heartcore -- Maybe step out of the A, not-an-A genre.
Maybe let's cross to gender? (e.g "men?") Lotta of women on here have had a bad time with a man. Is that fair enough? So they would have a cautionary feeling about men. So look at this . . .
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post4966644
I am a man, but it is not about me. (unless Santa is even smarter than I think, and then maybe it is
)
Folks who have had some family drown may avoid open water. Folks who have had a fire, maybe would not have a fireplace. Maybe folks in NYC were scared of airplanes after 9-11. Dunno.
The reaction is common, but has nothing to do with water, fire, or airplanes.
*We* may even project it onto others. Looking for the Cloud in the Silver Lining, as it were.
Was just chatting yesterday with a lady on Facebook Alanon (yeah there is such a thing). She came through some terrible A abuse this last year -- hiding and locking herself in closets, etc. So she meets some nice guy this week at the grocery store, and then runs away fearing he, too, may be an A.
I had to laugh about that because I had just come from the Grocery store minutes before, and met some woman giving out Wine samples or something, and she was nice, but I went crazy scared of her thinking if she was giving out Wine samples -- SHE MIGHT BE AN A!!!!!
But for US -- maybe you, too (not trying to project ANYTHING on to you) But for US -- folks who have such horrid experiences with A's that we now fear ever dealing with another -- we run like scared children -- that is what you are seeing in our "advice."
As an aside -- I would not want to "date" (polite term) Melody Beatty with a borrowed . . . . What I would find appealing is someone who knew NOTHING of A, A's, Addictions, Co-Dependence, or any of the rest of this garbage that has been foisted upon us. Most of the real world does not have to deal with any of this crap.
SO. SICK. OF. THIS. SH!T.
Maybe let's cross to gender? (e.g "men?") Lotta of women on here have had a bad time with a man. Is that fair enough? So they would have a cautionary feeling about men. So look at this . . .
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post4966644
I am a man, but it is not about me. (unless Santa is even smarter than I think, and then maybe it is
)Folks who have had some family drown may avoid open water. Folks who have had a fire, maybe would not have a fireplace. Maybe folks in NYC were scared of airplanes after 9-11. Dunno.
The reaction is common, but has nothing to do with water, fire, or airplanes.
*We* may even project it onto others. Looking for the Cloud in the Silver Lining, as it were.
Was just chatting yesterday with a lady on Facebook Alanon (yeah there is such a thing). She came through some terrible A abuse this last year -- hiding and locking herself in closets, etc. So she meets some nice guy this week at the grocery store, and then runs away fearing he, too, may be an A.
I had to laugh about that because I had just come from the Grocery store minutes before, and met some woman giving out Wine samples or something, and she was nice, but I went crazy scared of her thinking if she was giving out Wine samples -- SHE MIGHT BE AN A!!!!!
But for US -- maybe you, too (not trying to project ANYTHING on to you) But for US -- folks who have such horrid experiences with A's that we now fear ever dealing with another -- we run like scared children -- that is what you are seeing in our "advice."
As an aside -- I would not want to "date" (polite term) Melody Beatty with a borrowed . . . . What I would find appealing is someone who knew NOTHING of A, A's, Addictions, Co-Dependence, or any of the rest of this garbage that has been foisted upon us. Most of the real world does not have to deal with any of this crap.
SO. SICK. OF. THIS. SH!T.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Originally Posted by Hammer
Dating an alcoholic...
Dear Group,
.
Which would be better? Dropping one big rock on five of my toes at once, or going more slowly and reasonably and dropping one rock on each toe one at time?
Please do not tell me to not drop rocks on my toes, I am In Love with the Rock.
Looking forward to your advice and answers. Thank you!
Joking. But not really.
Dear Group,
.
Which would be better? Dropping one big rock on five of my toes at once, or going more slowly and reasonably and dropping one rock on each toe one at time?
Please do not tell me to not drop rocks on my toes, I am In Love with the Rock.
Looking forward to your advice and answers. Thank you!
Joking. But not really.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Originally Posted by heartcore
Hammer -
I always give very strong "flee, before it gets worse" messages to posters who express that they are in a destructive relationship. I didn't hear that in this original post. What I heard was someone asking - "is it possible to be in a good relationship with someone in recovery?"
I always give very strong "flee, before it gets worse" messages to posters who express that they are in a destructive relationship. I didn't hear that in this original post. What I heard was someone asking - "is it possible to be in a good relationship with someone in recovery?"
What she asked is "how do I love this guy and not get caught up in his stuff"? That is the ONLY question she asked. This poster is asking a very specific question to her very specific situation, not a generalized question.
Her very specific situation is dealing with a lifetime A with 9 month sobriety who she thinks is a dry drunk and who's "stuff" she doesn't want to become involved in, and whose tales of drinking make her feel uncomfortable. Good luck.
I feel confident in saying the longer the drinking the longer it takes to untangle the mess. Good for this man that he is trying - for her I say earnestly that someone in transitional housing in transition period, whose stuff she doesn't "want to deal with" is the right choice for a future.
The person she describes, and the alcoholic you describe as yourself aren't comparable.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by redatlanta
I didn't hear her ask if its possible to have a good relationship with someone in recovery. If she had asked that my answer would have been yes - because I do have a great relationship with someone in recovery.
What she asked is "how do I love this guy and not get caught up in his stuff"? That is the ONLY question she asked. This poster is asking a very specific question to her very specific situation, not a generalized question.
Her very specific situation is dealing with a lifetime A with 9 month sobriety who she thinks is a dry drunk and who's "stuff" she doesn't want to become involved in, and whose tales of drinking make her feel uncomfortable. Good luck.
I feel confident in saying the longer the drinking the longer it takes to untangle the mess. Good for this man that he is trying - for her I say earnestly that someone in transitional housing in transition period, whose stuff she doesn't "want to deal with" is the right choice for a future.
The person she describes, and the alcoholic you describe as yourself aren't comparable.
What she asked is "how do I love this guy and not get caught up in his stuff"? That is the ONLY question she asked. This poster is asking a very specific question to her very specific situation, not a generalized question.
Her very specific situation is dealing with a lifetime A with 9 month sobriety who she thinks is a dry drunk and who's "stuff" she doesn't want to become involved in, and whose tales of drinking make her feel uncomfortable. Good luck.
I feel confident in saying the longer the drinking the longer it takes to untangle the mess. Good for this man that he is trying - for her I say earnestly that someone in transitional housing in transition period, whose stuff she doesn't "want to deal with" is the right choice for a future.
The person she describes, and the alcoholic you describe as yourself aren't comparable.
Early recovery is a extremely trying time for all couples, and even those that have been through decades together have a hard time making it through this period. It only stands to reason that a NEW relationship would be equally or more so challenged.
jewelsmn - you said that you are studying to be a drug & alcohol abuse counselor - what would YOU advise someone to do if they came to you & gave you just the info in your original post?
Thank you for the big LOL this morning Hammer! This totally made my day!!
Originally Posted by Hammer
Dating an alcoholic...
Dear Group,
.
Which would be better? Dropping one big rock on five of my toes at once, or going more slowly and reasonably and dropping one rock on each toe one at time?
Please do not tell me to not drop rocks on my toes, I am In Love with the Rock.
Looking forward to your advice and answers. Thank you!
Dear Group,
.
Which would be better? Dropping one big rock on five of my toes at once, or going more slowly and reasonably and dropping one rock on each toe one at time?
Please do not tell me to not drop rocks on my toes, I am In Love with the Rock.
Looking forward to your advice and answers. Thank you!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 214
To the OP: try googling PAWS, Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome. If your boyfriend seems like a dry drunk, has a long history of alcoholism, and a recent recovery, this could explain some of his behavior. Or not. It may be that he has a lot to work through and heal from right now.
What I get is that you don't sound happy with his addictions, and want to make yourself okay with them. Try to just accept that it might be a problem for you, and that is perfectly okay. See what happens next.
al-anon has been a great resource for me. It could give you insight into this relationship, and also insight that can aid you in your future career. I wish you and your daughter the best of luck; I hope it all works out in the best possible way for all of you.
What I get is that you don't sound happy with his addictions, and want to make yourself okay with them. Try to just accept that it might be a problem for you, and that is perfectly okay. See what happens next.
al-anon has been a great resource for me. It could give you insight into this relationship, and also insight that can aid you in your future career. I wish you and your daughter the best of luck; I hope it all works out in the best possible way for all of you.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,927
Originally Posted by heartcore
I feel compelled to respond to this statement:
"You have to understand addicts love one thing and one thing only, their drugs or alcohol."
I am an addict and an alcoholic, and have been in and out of recovery through my lifetime. I am not a perfect partner by any means, but have also been a loving, hard-working, kind mother and partner, both in and out of recovery. There are many different kinds of people who get into drug and alcohol abuse. Many of us have never been violent, are thoughtful and romantic, are bright and educated, and make extraordinary efforts to continue to grow. Besides much energy given to recovery work through my life, I have also done a good bit of therapy, lots of reading and writing, etc.
I am not perfect, but - honestly - I am no more "dysfunctional" in relationship than, well, most of the folks posting here. I post here too, working on my issues of codependency.
Addicts and alcoholics are struggling with physical dependency and a form of mental illness, but we are capable of love. With the same continuum of that capacity as the general population.
I say this because I not only know myself, but know many other alcoholics - both in the world and in recovery. There are angry, brutal, selfish alcoholics and there are overly-sensitive, damaged, quiet alcoholics. There are low bottom drunks (who take it all the way - to health damage, and family destruction, and institutionalization), and there are high functioning alcoholics who find recovery before they get anywhere close to those stages. My alcoholism is counted in the glasses of red wine that I drank every night or in the too many cold beers. Not good for me, no. Not good for my body. A "checking out" - the easy way out of pressure and tension and ambition. But - in recovery - I'm pretty fabulous (and although I hesitate to say it here - I think I was a darn good partner while drinking too - I had different negative impacts on my life, primarily my health).
So, the very good questions posed have to do with how this person is treating you right now. How you enjoy their company right now. What your gut tells you about this right now. Most importantly, if the dynamic in the relationship is causing you to not be true to yourself or you feel that you are giving parts of yourself away, then it is not a positive relationship. That could happen whether or not the potential partner is an alcoholic.
I see so many express here the fervent desire that their beloved alcoholic will seek recovery and really do the work. Some of us do. I think that many of us turn into extraordinary people.
As to the one year "rule." Although this is oft-repeated, it is a recent "suggestion" that is thrown around the aa program. It is only a suggestion. It is not part of any of the original literature (not mentioned in the big book) and was not at all a part of aa until relatively recently. I think it is a grand idea to fully focus on recovery for a year, but many folks successfully get sober while involved in pre-existing relationship, like a marriage, that they came in with (and which may be very damaged and cause a great deal of additional stress). One of the issues that the one year "rule" seeks to address is that if two newcomers to recovery get together, they are both juggling lots of feelings, and may trigger some crazy in each other. If the relationship fails, one or both may be embarrassed/awkward about returning to their meetings. Additionally, if a recovering alcoholic dates a moderate drinker early on, the pressure of dating (or that person's lifestyle) could encourage a return to alcohol.
If a recovering person gets involved in a healthy relationship with someone who communicates with them and supports their recovery (ie. not drinking around them, giving them lots of time and space to attend meetings and therapy), there is no universal wisdom that this will inhibit their capacity to recover. For many, it might make them stronger.
Loneliness doesn't make recovery "deeper." Additionally, destiny is a mysterious thing, and we just don't know when we will actually meet and fall in love with the right person.
Finally, if you're uncomfortable enough about the situation that you are posting on the co-dependent forum, I support your worry that this might not be right for you. At the very least, I hope that you'll feel confident and received talking about these exact concerns directly with your potential sweetheart.
"You have to understand addicts love one thing and one thing only, their drugs or alcohol."
I am an addict and an alcoholic, and have been in and out of recovery through my lifetime. I am not a perfect partner by any means, but have also been a loving, hard-working, kind mother and partner, both in and out of recovery. There are many different kinds of people who get into drug and alcohol abuse. Many of us have never been violent, are thoughtful and romantic, are bright and educated, and make extraordinary efforts to continue to grow. Besides much energy given to recovery work through my life, I have also done a good bit of therapy, lots of reading and writing, etc.
I am not perfect, but - honestly - I am no more "dysfunctional" in relationship than, well, most of the folks posting here. I post here too, working on my issues of codependency.
Addicts and alcoholics are struggling with physical dependency and a form of mental illness, but we are capable of love. With the same continuum of that capacity as the general population.
I say this because I not only know myself, but know many other alcoholics - both in the world and in recovery. There are angry, brutal, selfish alcoholics and there are overly-sensitive, damaged, quiet alcoholics. There are low bottom drunks (who take it all the way - to health damage, and family destruction, and institutionalization), and there are high functioning alcoholics who find recovery before they get anywhere close to those stages. My alcoholism is counted in the glasses of red wine that I drank every night or in the too many cold beers. Not good for me, no. Not good for my body. A "checking out" - the easy way out of pressure and tension and ambition. But - in recovery - I'm pretty fabulous (and although I hesitate to say it here - I think I was a darn good partner while drinking too - I had different negative impacts on my life, primarily my health).
So, the very good questions posed have to do with how this person is treating you right now. How you enjoy their company right now. What your gut tells you about this right now. Most importantly, if the dynamic in the relationship is causing you to not be true to yourself or you feel that you are giving parts of yourself away, then it is not a positive relationship. That could happen whether or not the potential partner is an alcoholic.
I see so many express here the fervent desire that their beloved alcoholic will seek recovery and really do the work. Some of us do. I think that many of us turn into extraordinary people.
As to the one year "rule." Although this is oft-repeated, it is a recent "suggestion" that is thrown around the aa program. It is only a suggestion. It is not part of any of the original literature (not mentioned in the big book) and was not at all a part of aa until relatively recently. I think it is a grand idea to fully focus on recovery for a year, but many folks successfully get sober while involved in pre-existing relationship, like a marriage, that they came in with (and which may be very damaged and cause a great deal of additional stress). One of the issues that the one year "rule" seeks to address is that if two newcomers to recovery get together, they are both juggling lots of feelings, and may trigger some crazy in each other. If the relationship fails, one or both may be embarrassed/awkward about returning to their meetings. Additionally, if a recovering alcoholic dates a moderate drinker early on, the pressure of dating (or that person's lifestyle) could encourage a return to alcohol.
If a recovering person gets involved in a healthy relationship with someone who communicates with them and supports their recovery (ie. not drinking around them, giving them lots of time and space to attend meetings and therapy), there is no universal wisdom that this will inhibit their capacity to recover. For many, it might make them stronger.
Loneliness doesn't make recovery "deeper." Additionally, destiny is a mysterious thing, and we just don't know when we will actually meet and fall in love with the right person.
Finally, if you're uncomfortable enough about the situation that you are posting on the co-dependent forum, I support your worry that this might not be right for you. At the very least, I hope that you'll feel confident and received talking about these exact concerns directly with your potential sweetheart.
I don't know very much about the OPs boyfriend.. and even taking snipets from her post.. it clearly doesn't allow me to pass judgement on him, or the likelihood they could have a future. I wont compare him to my husband, or anyone else's because while the symptoms of addiction are similar - people are very different and their past, life experiences, education, personal values are all very different... I personally hate the stigma that goes along with addiction because many people don't fit the mold. generic addict bashing is a serious problem IMO....
I also agree with your comments to the OP about looking at her own feelings because the answers are within her...
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Join Date: Mar 2012
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K and I have been single mom and daughter for 11 years. I have been running into some problems with K being sometimes rude and angry at him. I think this is normal....she is having this change with a man in the house every once in a while. He does back up what I say.
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As I'm the only mod here right now I'd like to remind everyone of the ignore function.
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SR
Ignore bothersome members. If there is someone on the forum that bothers you, select the Ignore option on the drop down menu under their name on the post. You won't see any posts from this member again.
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I was in your shoes a long time ago with the only difference being I did not have a child.
All I can offer is that, when you close your eyes and picture your life'a partner - what do you picture? When I do that now I picture someone that is working, responsible, supports me, offers security (emotionally and financially), has a history of those things, is open and solid emotionally, etc.
That is not who I married. I didn't think it matter but it did. It really really did. That is not the kind of man you describe in your post.
You are only two months in to this relationship. If the person you are dating two months in is not the person you see when you close your eyes - move on. Dating is so we can keep looking until we find the person that offers what we need, not a time to figure out how to settle for the person we are dating.
I totally get that it is nice to be with someone after being alone. I understand that he is probably a lovely person to talk to. I discovered I needed a whole lot more in a life partner. Progressive alcoholism also changed how we interacted and those lovely conversations and fun times were drowned at the bottom of a sea of alcohol.
Past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior. This might be his last stop on the recovery road and he'll never relapse and be a wonderful partner. If that is so he'll build that history. Right now he doesn't have that history. He has been in this place before and he has relapsed. You know the stats on recovery. It is such a huge gamble and there is so much at stake.
ETA: Moving on is not throwing someone away because they are not perfect. Having a background like you do is not going to make this any easier. Moving on is simply following your own path and heart. It is the only responsible thing to do. I did not move on. I did not know how at that time and I thought I could make anything work. I also wanted a family. 16 years later that relationship ended with a lot of devastation on both sides. Moving on would have been a favor to both of us. There are also four kids now - they did not deserve the gamble I was willing to take.
ETA2: lol - I'm having a hard time leaving :P I have a four year degree in alcohol and drug abuse studies. That was a long time ago so I don't know what the programs look like today but when I was there we learned that it was a family disease but we did not talk a whole lot about the specifics of co-dependency. That degree fed into my co-dependency (which was there before I married) like crazy. I would really encourage you to read a book called 'Co-dependent No More' and maybe attend some al-anon meetings or find the stickie at the top that lists some books to read. Half my class was recovered alcoholics that were already counseling and wanted the degree. Some were active alcoholics and I really wonder about the rest of us now. They should have required we all go to 6mos of al-anon
All I can offer is that, when you close your eyes and picture your life'a partner - what do you picture? When I do that now I picture someone that is working, responsible, supports me, offers security (emotionally and financially), has a history of those things, is open and solid emotionally, etc.
That is not who I married. I didn't think it matter but it did. It really really did. That is not the kind of man you describe in your post.
You are only two months in to this relationship. If the person you are dating two months in is not the person you see when you close your eyes - move on. Dating is so we can keep looking until we find the person that offers what we need, not a time to figure out how to settle for the person we are dating.
I totally get that it is nice to be with someone after being alone. I understand that he is probably a lovely person to talk to. I discovered I needed a whole lot more in a life partner. Progressive alcoholism also changed how we interacted and those lovely conversations and fun times were drowned at the bottom of a sea of alcohol.
Past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior. This might be his last stop on the recovery road and he'll never relapse and be a wonderful partner. If that is so he'll build that history. Right now he doesn't have that history. He has been in this place before and he has relapsed. You know the stats on recovery. It is such a huge gamble and there is so much at stake.
ETA: Moving on is not throwing someone away because they are not perfect. Having a background like you do is not going to make this any easier. Moving on is simply following your own path and heart. It is the only responsible thing to do. I did not move on. I did not know how at that time and I thought I could make anything work. I also wanted a family. 16 years later that relationship ended with a lot of devastation on both sides. Moving on would have been a favor to both of us. There are also four kids now - they did not deserve the gamble I was willing to take.
ETA2: lol - I'm having a hard time leaving :P I have a four year degree in alcohol and drug abuse studies. That was a long time ago so I don't know what the programs look like today but when I was there we learned that it was a family disease but we did not talk a whole lot about the specifics of co-dependency. That degree fed into my co-dependency (which was there before I married) like crazy. I would really encourage you to read a book called 'Co-dependent No More' and maybe attend some al-anon meetings or find the stickie at the top that lists some books to read. Half my class was recovered alcoholics that were already counseling and wanted the degree. Some were active alcoholics and I really wonder about the rest of us now. They should have required we all go to 6mos of al-anon
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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One more post! Having a hard time leaving this thread - I've been thinking about it a lot.
I have a four year degree in alcohol and drug abuse studies. That was a long time ago so I don't know what the programs look like today but when I was there we learned that it was a family disease but we did not talk much about the specifics of co-dependency and if we did it was in relation to spouses or small children - and that didn't apply to me so I conveniently exempted myself. I was living in a lot of denial because there is a lot of alcoholism and codependency in my family of origin. I also abused alcohol in college and drank as much, probably more, than my alcoholic boyfriend eventual husband - so of course I did not classify him as an alcoholic. Looking back I see all the differences that I was ignoring or denying (meeting responsibilities, independence, age, history, goals, etc. - I had all that and he did not and he was in his 30's). I discovered I could stop when real life came calling - and he could not. Anyway - That degree fed into my co-dependency like crazy. I would really encourage you to read a book called 'Co-dependent No More' and maybe attend some al-anon meetings or find the stickie at the top that lists some books to read. Half my class was recovered alcoholics that were already counseling and wanted the degree. Some were active alcoholics and I really wonder about the rest of us now. They should have required we all go to 6mos of al-anon
I have a four year degree in alcohol and drug abuse studies. That was a long time ago so I don't know what the programs look like today but when I was there we learned that it was a family disease but we did not talk much about the specifics of co-dependency and if we did it was in relation to spouses or small children - and that didn't apply to me so I conveniently exempted myself. I was living in a lot of denial because there is a lot of alcoholism and codependency in my family of origin. I also abused alcohol in college and drank as much, probably more, than my alcoholic boyfriend eventual husband - so of course I did not classify him as an alcoholic. Looking back I see all the differences that I was ignoring or denying (meeting responsibilities, independence, age, history, goals, etc. - I had all that and he did not and he was in his 30's). I discovered I could stop when real life came calling - and he could not. Anyway - That degree fed into my co-dependency like crazy. I would really encourage you to read a book called 'Co-dependent No More' and maybe attend some al-anon meetings or find the stickie at the top that lists some books to read. Half my class was recovered alcoholics that were already counseling and wanted the degree. Some were active alcoholics and I really wonder about the rest of us now. They should have required we all go to 6mos of al-anon
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