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Old 09-02-2014, 09:04 AM
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Sounds like you couldn't help yourself (like addiction) but that you saw what you were doing. That is a good sign. You seem very aware. I've been there where I've had to ask myself "why am I really doing this?" each time I wanted to drop a line to someone I broke up with. Each piece of communication keeps the door open a little. If I wanted the door closed then what was I doing trying to keep it open? It's hard because my ego wanted him to keep thinking of me and wanting me. In order to let go of the relationship I had to bite the bullet and let go in every way. Good luck. It'll probably be uncomfortable for a while but that's ok!
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:11 AM
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Run away, quickly. Go to the counselor.

XXX
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:27 AM
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And that satisfied me for a few minutes, that he still wanted me, still interested..

and that is part of The Dance. Come here, go away.

From Joy2meU

As long as we have not healed our childhood wounds then there are a lot more than two people involved in our relationships. There may only be two people in the room - but the room is also full of the ghosts of all of our past emotional wounds. Until we start clearing our emotional process of the buttons/triggers that throw us into the past, we are not capable of being honest in the now. When we react in the now out of old wounds and old tapes we are being emotionally dishonest with ourselves and our partners.

The way the dynamic in a dysfunctional relationship works is in a "come here" - "go away" cycle. When one person is available the other tends to pull away. If the first person becomes unavailable the other comes back and pleads to be let back in. When the first becomes available again then the other eventually starts pulling away again. It happens because our relationship with self is not healed. As long as I do not love myself then there must be something wrong with someone who loves me - and if someone doesn't love me than I have to prove I am worthy by winning that person back. On some level we are trying to earn the love of our unavailable parent(s) to prove to ourselves that we are worthy and lovable.

What is normal and natural in romantic relationships in this society is for a person whose primary fear is abandonment to get involved with someone whose primary fear is being smothered/losing self. The person with abandonment fears reacts to shows of independence on the part of the other as if the other were abandoning them. That causes them to become more needy and clinging - which causes the other person to pull away - which causes the first person to cling more - which causes the other to pull away more. Eventually the person with abandonment fears gets angry and disgusted and pulls back into themselves - which to the other makes it safe to come back and plead to be let back in. And after a short honeymoon period the dance can start all over again.

"Wait a minute!" you are probably saying if you read my last article in this series (codependent & counterdependent behaviors), "you said at the end of your last article, that both the codependent and counterdependent types of behavior were reactions to fear of abandonment."

That is true. The codependent type of behavior is an attempt to overcome the core belief that we are unworthy and unlovable by working real hard to earn love from another. The more a classic codependent feels they are being abandoned the harder they work.

The counterdependent is someone who is so convinced of their core unworthiness that their defense is to not open themselves up enough to admit they need another because they are sure they will be abandoned if anyone else sees who they really are (I used to feel if I ever truly opened up to someone, they would run away screaming in horror at my shameful being.) So, they abandon before they can be abandoned (this includes abandoning themselves by being attracted to people who are unavailable - saves them from taking the risk.)

Both types of behavior are dysfunctional and self defeating. Codependents are drawn to people who will abandon them (this abandonment does not have to be physical - it can be emotional so that the relationship continues but the codependent person has to settle for crumbs instead of truly getting their needs met.) Counterdependents let down their guard once every 5 years or so and let in someone who will perfectly betray and abandon them in order to prove that they were right in the first place to not open up to people.

It is very boring and incredibly painful to keep repeating dysfunctional relationship patterns. The way to stop repeating those patterns is to start healing the wounds that we suffered in childhood. A big part of this process is awakening to the reality that it is not our fault that our relationships haven't worked out. We were set up to fail to get our needs met in relationships by the unhealthy environments we grew up in, by the dysfunctional and dishonest definitions and role modeling that we experienced. We were powerless to do things any differently than we did them until we started to examine our patterns and discover the ways in which our childhood experiences have been running our lives.

One of the most important steps in learning what Love really is - in starting to Love ourselves in healthy ways - is to start working on forgiving ourselves for being little kids who were wounded by being raised by people who were wounded when they were little kids.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:29 PM
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I want to thank everyone for all your post! I saw myself in almost every sentence of the post above^^^^.

It especially gives me hope when I've read the ones from those that had the same battle and have come-out the other side.... It helps combat that feeling of hopelessness.. I had no clue I had these issues.. All along I thought I was loyal, forgiving, dedicated, loving and perservering. I think I needed this guy to be able to really see myself...I kept saying to myself "okay that isn't as bad as your gut is telling you.. give it some more time" and my logical brain was saying "run, and run fast!" I was at war with myself and myself was losing! How's that for an enemy? Now I really for the first time in my life understand the saying she/he's their own worst enemy.. I just didn't realize it was like a split personality.

To the person that said "even more scary to me is the fact that you do not seem afraid of him."
The part of me that makes excuses says he's not that bad, he's not scary, maybe he's just misunderstood, maybe its me?.. Even as I'm typing this I think, did I exaggerate in some ways? Maybe I'm too touchy.. I have a couple of very good friends that in the beginning I told them my doubts and they wanted me to run back then. When I would tell them the hurtful things he said to me and try to make an excuse they would say that's just crazy their is no excuse for that. But I think these things could just have been said in drunkenness or he doesn't have the best vocabulary so maybe that's really his problem.. One time after a lengthy but very nice conversation where he complemented everything about me, especially some things he liked most about me like how soft my skin is ect, ect, he said " I've been thinking, you shouldn't get gastric by-pass surgery it will make you skin all wrinkly." I said gastric by-pass? Who ever said anything about gastric bypass? I mean I know I have some extra weight on me but I don't weigh enough to qualify for that! I weigh 185 lbs, at 5.9 size 12/14 most of my weight is in my butt/boobs..I'm very curvy, my waist is the smallest thing on me. However he knows I was self conscious about my butt because he always reassured me that it was a perfect size... so I took that to mean that he wasn't happy with the rest of me. butt, boobs and skin were good but other then that I need something as drastic as surgery. My friends were livid!! I made excuses...

I still think I'm being harsh.. I really don't think he meant anything by it. He is in such wonderful physical shape and he just has high expectations that others should be also.. He thinks his daughters (who I say are beautiful in shape woman- ones a runner) have let them selves go and need to lose some weight.

I write down everything he says to me though and sometimes when I go through it I can see the meanness, control and manipulation of it.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:56 PM
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Oh my gosh, doureallycare2! Gastric bypass at your weight? And to make it sound as if it's a compliment about your skin? That is so outrageous it's funny. Wow. What are some of the other gems you've written down? I've heard it said that we train people how we want to be treated. I'd say it's time to take him to bootcamp.
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:36 PM
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Newspaper article I found when searched on the internet. Names and locations have been replaced?

(Name replaced ) and her boyfriend were drinking at his property and discussing the future of their relationship the day before her body was recovered from a nearby pond Monday, state police officials said.
The boyfriend said (name) was still alive when he left her Sunday at his property at (replaced), officials said. But by 5 p.m. the next day, (name) body was found in a pond near a house that was in the early stages of being built.
An autopsy concluded Tuesday that 52-year-old (name) of (city)had drowned, but investigators are still trying to determine whether (name) death was a suicide, a homicide or accidental, officials said.
“Nothing’s been ruled out,” state police Trooper (name) said.
Part of the ongoing investigation will explore how and why (name) wound up in a shallow area of the pond, which was roughly 4 to 5 feet deep at most, police said. There was also a steep drop off into one area of the pond.
Investigators are also waiting for toxicology blood results to determine whether (name) had consumed any amounts of alcohol or other substances before her death, police said.
According to (name) boyfriend – whose name was not released – the last time he spoke with her on Sunday she was upset because she was saying she was in love with him and wanted to get married, but he didn’t want to, (name)said.


Read more: http://
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by doureallycare2 View Post
newspaper article i found when searched on the internet. Names and locations have been replaced?

(name replaced ) and her boyfriend were drinking at his property and discussing the future of their relationship the day before her body was recovered from a nearby pond monday, state police officials said.
The boyfriend said (name) was still alive when he left her sunday at his property at (replaced), officials said. But by 5 p.m. The next day, (name) body was found in a pond near a house that was in the early stages of being built.
An autopsy concluded tuesday that 52-year-old (name) of (city)had drowned, but investigators are still trying to determine whether (name) death was a suicide, a homicide or accidental, officials said.
“nothing’s been ruled out,” state police trooper (name) said.
Part of the ongoing investigation will explore how and why (name) wound up in a shallow area of the pond, which was roughly 4 to 5 feet deep at most, police said. There was also a steep drop off into one area of the pond.
Investigators are also waiting for toxicology blood results to determine whether (name) had consumed any amounts of alcohol or other substances before her death, police said.
According to (name) boyfriend – whose name was not released – the last time he spoke with her on sunday she was upset because she was saying she was in love with him and wanted to get married, but he didn’t want to, (name)said.


Read more: Http://
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?????????????? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-03-2014, 06:17 AM
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I know right! I'm crazy to even have gone out with him once I found out.. especially since he told me he did sleep at his property that night but in his truck... he planted flowers by the spot on his pond where he pulled her out because her family wouldn't allow him at the funeral and he couldn't find her grave. He said he had so much remorse over not telling her he loved her that if it was suicide and not an accident maybe he could have prevented it....

he talked about her all the time and you could tell it was a heavy burden.. that's why I really don't think he did anything.. but why the heck take the risk right? The only thing I can think is because I was already, emotionally and physically attached to him.

I rushed in to fast and didn't do my due diligence..!!!!

now I put that together with what I know about him: His drinking, jealousy, control issues along with his words not matching his actions I think at the least he drove her crazy....
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Old 09-03-2014, 06:22 AM
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1st therapy session today 10:00... scared...
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Old 09-03-2014, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Katiekate View Post
But the truth is, you are something, something very important, please, block him, do not engage, this is your chance to free yourself of this monster.



KK
I agree with everything you said except this... how do we really know if he is a monster? how do we know that I'm not the one projecting, over analyzing, blowing things out of proportion, because maybe deep down I know were not a good fit. I have done nothing but break up with guys the whole last year. most only got a month and some were really sweet guys. However I ran from them all.. Wonder if I'm running again and its me not him....?

I have a lot to talk to the therapist about today.. ugh...
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Old 09-03-2014, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by doureallycare2 View Post
I agree with everything you said except this... how do we really know if he is a monster? how do we know that I'm not the one projecting, over analyzing, blowing things out of proportion, because maybe deep down I know were not a good fit. I have done nothing but break up with guys the whole last year. most only got a month and some were really sweet guys. However I ran from them all.. Wonder if I'm running again and its me not him....?

I have a lot to talk to the therapist about today.. ugh...
If the best thing you can say about a guy is that he might not have murdered his ex, then I think you are wise to run from him. Even if he didn't kill her, and fwiw I don't think he got his hands dirty, at the very least he played mind games with her until she took her own life. That is a monstrous act.
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:20 AM
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So therapy was good..... He made sense out of the en-sensible. I feel better then I have in a long time and yet a little discouraged.. he said this is going to be painful but the good news is I'm not as "far gone" as I thought I was. He said that for 36 years I was at 180 deg of denying myself and living for my "marriage". I banked all feelings and emotions down and put my heart away in cold storage. Thinking I was taking a higher moral standing. He said that for the past year I did a total flop and did the 180 to the other side of looking for that affirmation, excitement and love.

He said all my wires are crisscrossed in my brain and its just a matter of getting them connected to the right circuits.. that its like a right handed person always remembering to reach with their left but it can be done... We shall see....
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:34 AM
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Glad it went well! There will be relief in your future!
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:38 PM
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Whew. I haven't been able to stop thinking about this since I saw that article. Who knows what happened but it is certainly chilling to think about. I know I used to be attracted to passionate, angst filled, crazy men who added a lot of excitement and drama in my life. It was a roller coaster and gave me something to think about always, something to get my adrenaline going. I used to think that the extreme emotional engagement meant it was love. However... I did eventually get tired. It is exhausting living like that with emotions flying around all over the place. Can also be very damaging and I no longer think that is love. Love should be supportive and feel nice. The guy I have now is rather boring in comparison. Rather boring in general actually. But he loves me completely and gives me a stable home base. From there I can get my kicks in other ways that leave me feeling better about myself, not worse. For instance, a surf lesson, fire poi, a dance class, a new challenging job or volunteer position. You may want to try bungee jumping or learning to fly an airplane since it seems you have a high fear tolerance (LOL). I am glad you are getting some help in therapy. I have a feeling you'll be ok once you get back in touch with your instincts and sense of self worth. I am rooting for you!
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:13 PM
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He said all my wires are crisscrossed in my brain and its just a matter of getting them connected to the right circuits.. that its like a right handed person always remembering to reach with their left but it can be done.

that's exactly the process i had to go thru getting off crack cocaine. my circuitry was shot to hell, every stinking wire hitched to exactly one thing. but every time i said NO, every time i made a better choice, rode out a trigger and did not "cave" the synapses started to fire off in different sequences, re-establishing "healthier" pathways, and the little nuerons didn't just crash and burn when they jumped off the crack cliff.

the toothpaste analogy is a perfect example - so much of what we do is so ingrained (good AND bad) that we bypass conscious thought. our brains are teachable, it just takes patience and time.
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by doureallycare2 View Post
I agree with everything you said except this... how do we really know if he is a monster? how do we know that I'm not the one projecting, over analyzing, blowing things out of proportion, because maybe deep down I know were not a good fit. I have done nothing but break up with guys the whole last year. most only got a month and some were really sweet guys. However I ran from them all.. Wonder if I'm running again and its me not him....?

I have a lot to talk to the therapist about today.. ugh...


What I began asking myself as the list of abuses began to pile up is, how would you feel if this story was being told by my own daughter??? to me, what would I think of this man, I would want to get my daughter away from this monster. It got worse as the years went by, just because someone does not stike you, does not mean you are not being abused, the emotional turmoil he has caused you is abuse.
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:06 PM
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OK.
Originally Posted by doureallycare2 View Post
how do we know that I'm not the one projecting, over analyzing, blowing things out of proportion, because maybe deep down I know were not a good fit. I have done nothing but break up with guys the whole last year. most only got a month and some were really sweet guys. However I ran from them all.. Wonder if I'm running again and its me not him....?
Well.... Let's see...
1. You have that news article, so you're not making that part up. (Didn't think you were, by the way.) Your description of him and that article kind of fit together...

2. It sounds like you were able to call it quits with the other guys without intense guilt, without thoughts of "poor him, he really needs me so I should stay" and without pulling up news stories about dead girlfriends as barely-used justification for ending the relationship. You are a constant factor, the new variable in the equation is him.

Doyoureallycare2, I seriously do not get the feeling that you're blowing this all out of proportion, in fact, I think you may be glossing over the severity of the details or justifying them on his behalf. This:

We talk on the phone 2-3 hours every night (he drinks through the conversation)and I have to be there to take his calls. He hated it if I went to dinner with friends so I gradually stopped doing that. I refused to stop doing things with my family though and that is a constant problem with us.. I have slowly stopped going to something's (like graduation parties ect.) and have drastically reduced any time with friends. I go home every night just to talk with him. He is very jealous, always thinks I'm looking for another man. (he just seems to like to pick fights over the phone- 1/3 of the conversation is always negative.

If he is displeased he would withhold affection and conversations.. Everything very quickly seems as though its on his terms. if he doesn't want to see me over the weekend we don't get together, he will not make set plans with me (and mocks and ridicules me that I need or want set plants) he will say we will see for Saturday, maybe dinner, maybe you spending the night at my house (usually will not happen). Many times the dates would be cancelled even if they were planned. I tried ending it twice before. Only to answered his calls once he has assured me that he loves me. I had to keep it a secret from family that I was seeing him again.
is not blowing things out of proportion just because you don’t think you’re not a good fit together. It’s a detailed list of his actions that include manipulation, isolating you from friends and family, exerting control over where you go or who you see, emotional abuse…

Looking back at life with AXH, I can see that I did the same justifying and glossing over in my relationship with AXH. As I worked through everything surrounding my relationship with AXH, I didn’t really question whether or not the way AXH acted or the things that he did actually occurred. I did, however, question the validity of my emotions related to the events. I believed the stuff happened, but maybe I just over-reacted. It’s taken a bit of work to accept that my feelings were valid.

I’m writing all of this because I understand the feelings behind the first quote I posted here. But, it’s not you. You’re not at fault. You’re not blowing things out of proportion.
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by theuncertainty View Post
OK.


But, it’s not you. You’re not at fault. You’re not blowing things out of proportion.
Thank you, that is what my therapist said also... He said I have banked down my emotions/feelings for so many years that its hard for me to get in touch with what I actually do feel. After all I have learned that my feelings are faulty and there for don't matter.. how can I trust my feelings when they don't make any sense to me and most of all how can I share them?

It amazes me that I had no concept of any of this until this guy.......Its an awakening.. and I'm not liking it...
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by anvilheadii View Post
[

that's exactly the process i had to go thru getting off crack cocaine. My circuitry was shot to hell, every stinking wire hitched to exactly one thing. But every time i said no, every time i made a better choice, rode out a trigger and did not "cave" the synapses started to fire off in different sequences, re-establishing "healthier" pathways, and the little nuerons didn't just crash and burn when they jumped off the crack cliff.

.
exactly!!!!
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Old 09-07-2014, 07:39 PM
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Really tuff weekend... Hope it gets easier!
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