I think this is a fair question to ask.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
You can mean what you say but NOT say it mean....or just plain old good manners.
I hope you will revisit this thread when you have 21 or 31 or 56, 66 days sober....you might have a more clear perspective.
You sound very rude on purpose... (to get attention perhaps)?
People who live in glass houses should not throw stones....and I am the alcoholic here, sober 3 years..(the Exes still baffle me).
your kittyboy looks like a very smart fella....treat the people in this section of the forum the way you treat him.
I hope you will revisit this thread when you have 21 or 31 or 56, 66 days sober....you might have a more clear perspective.
You sound very rude on purpose... (to get attention perhaps)?
People who live in glass houses should not throw stones....and I am the alcoholic here, sober 3 years..(the Exes still baffle me).
your kittyboy looks like a very smart fella....treat the people in this section of the forum the way you treat him.
~Music is my mantra ----{-@
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by Fandy 
You can mean what you say but NOT say it mean....or just plain old good manners.
You sound very rude on purpose... (to get attention perhaps)?
People who live in glass houses should not throw stones....and I am the alcoholic here, sober 3 years..(the Exes still baffle me).
your kittyboy looks like a very smart fella....treat the people in this section of the forum the way you treat him.
You sound very rude on purpose... (to get attention perhaps)?
People who live in glass houses should not throw stones....and I am the alcoholic here, sober 3 years..(the Exes still baffle me).
your kittyboy looks like a very smart fella....treat the people in this section of the forum the way you treat him.
The truth is, I do believe addiction is generally a family problem, and I do think family members and loved ones of alcoholics many times have serious issues that they need to deal with in order to heal and recover in there own lives. I also believe that the alcoholic/addict is many times the scapegoat for much deeper issues within a family, and is used so those issues can be avoided. How is expressing that thought rude, or throwing stones in a glass house? I don't get it Fandy.
Keeping it simple!
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 3,282
Originally Posted by DragonInTheSky
That's the thing Dee. I've been looking inward a great deal, and find that a lot of the "friends and family of alcoholics" on this forum don't do a lot of looking inward on their own. They won't get anywhere unless they start to.
It isn't up to you to decide who is looking inward and who isn't. I know it certainly isn't my call. One of the big things I have had to work on is not being so judgemental and calling up people on what they are doing. Even if they are not "doing their part". They will figure it out in their own time, just like I figure out my crap in my own time.
Alcoholics have their issues and our family members also do too. At the end of the day what is most important is that I am looking after my own issues.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 25,826
Originally Posted by DragonInTheSky
I think some people on this forum need to grow a pair.
People in this part of the forum have kids, have a marriage, have a complicated situation that a one solution solves all perspective simply doesn't work!!
Seriously think about what you are adding to this part of the Forum? are you really providing the support that people have come to SR to seek out?
~Music is my mantra ----{-@
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by dandylion
Dear Dragon......just for the sake of argument---lets say that everything that you say about us "friends and family" types is true. Lets say that we are all f****d up, and that we need to look inward or suffer the consequences. Lets just say that is true.
Then, where does that leave you in the scheme of things?
"splain yourself Lucy"
dandylion
Then, where does that leave you in the scheme of things?
"splain yourself Lucy"
dandylion
In my own life I face difficulty because I am an alcoholic and so is my brother (admittedly so, sometimes). I also have an uncle (not by blood) that is a terrible alcoholic, and yet, none of their issues are confronted...only mine. They can drink away at family gatherings, yet I am "not allowed". It makes me mad, and has caused much hostility, anger, and pain between my mom and I especially.
My mom has told me straight up that I am "not allowed" to drink in front of her (which is fine, because I am not drinking) yet, my brother is allowed to gulp down beer after beer while turning into a belligerent as*hole at that. Why is this?? Because he's ten years older than me and I am still considered the "baby" of the family, even though I am a 35 year old independent self sufficient married woman. Plus, I guess she just doesn't get how isolated it makes me feel from all of them. I actually avoided going on an annual family summer gathering across the country because I knew there would be drinking, and it would just be too hard for me to resist. I am so hurt inside because both of my Grandmothers are approaching their 90's and this could be the last chance I have to see them again, yet I must stay away because of alcohol. I wish my family could understand...but they don't and they won't. And it p!sses me off too much to see other alcoholics in my family drinking it up in front of me, seemingly oblivious, while I have to sit there on the side lines and watch like a little kid.
It doesn't feel fair to me that there are all of these deep seeded issues within my family, yet everything is taken out on me, oh Lauren...the "creative, wounded alcoholic". I get sick of being the person blamed for all of the problems in my family, and I wish we were able to come together and discuss things as rational adults, but it's never going to happen, and that's just the way it is....and it makes me feel sad, and hurt, and angry...and all of those emotions in between that are hard to express with words. That's where my music comes into play. At least I always have my voice and my guitar.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,863
I'm coming late to this thread, but...something you just said, Dragons, flew right out at me. You say your brother and your uncle are allowed to drink around family and no one says anything. Do you think that maybe because you are female, you are held to a higher or different standard?
I think that's an interesting point. I too, am female, and feel like my family felt it was worse for me to drink than it was for male members of my family (many of which were and are alcoholic).
I think that's an interesting point. I too, am female, and feel like my family felt it was worse for me to drink than it was for male members of my family (many of which were and are alcoholic).
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,066
Why should other family members not drink because you're trying to be sober? Your sobriety is YOUR responsibility. No one else's. Believe me, I understand screwy family dynamics and being a black sheep but you're playing victim here.
~Music is my mantra ----{-@
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by suki44883
I'm coming late to this thread, but...something you just said, Dragons, flew right out at me. You say your brother and your uncle are allowed to drink around family and no one says anything. Do you think that maybe because you are female, you are held to a higher or different standard?
I think that's an interesting point. I too, am female, and feel like my family felt it was worse for me to drink than it was for male members of my family (many of which were and are alcoholic).
I think that's an interesting point. I too, am female, and feel like my family felt it was worse for me to drink than it was for male members of my family (many of which were and are alcoholic).
~Music is my mantra ----{-@
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by Stung
Why should other family members not drink because you're trying to be sober? Your sobriety is YOUR responsibility. No one else's. Believe me, I understand screwy family dynamics and being a black sheep but you're playing victim here.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
WOW, Dragon....It is easy to see that you bear a "scapegoat" position in the family. Another characteristic of families that the labels that were pasted on in earlier years often remain ...even after the person may have changed a lot!
Your feelings of anger are real, of course. And that is a lot to carry around all these years.
And, the thing is---this says more about their pathology (or at least as much as yours).
Often, these pathologies are more than one generation old in origin.
Have you ever thought of seeking the help of a therapist who is trained in family therapy to help you face and come to terms with these feelings?
dandylion
Your feelings of anger are real, of course. And that is a lot to carry around all these years.
And, the thing is---this says more about their pathology (or at least as much as yours).
Often, these pathologies are more than one generation old in origin.
Have you ever thought of seeking the help of a therapist who is trained in family therapy to help you face and come to terms with these feelings?
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: AZ
Posts: 309
I am really pissed off, not so much about the intent of your post, but your approach of it.
Let me tell you about me. I was raised in a middle class, single parent home. My mom worked her ass off to support me. My father was 1200 miles away, gave her 100 per month in CS. That was it. So, maybe you're right. Maybe I have daddy issues. Or maybe, just maybe, I want to me nothing like my father (who has been married 5 times) and actually think of.my marriage as forever, or maybe I love my husband so effing much, that the thought of us not being together scared the **** out of me, which makes me Co - dependent, or maybe I am effed up as much as my A and sick attracts sick, or maybe my H and I have problems that I believe we can work through.
But either way, it is what it is. And we are trying to work through it here, through recovery, and through treatment in therapy.
I think you should be happy that there is a F&F forum, alanon, and other programs to help family, otherwise addicts would have many more problems to deal with than their own, idk, like mentally unstable sober people!!!
Let me tell you about me. I was raised in a middle class, single parent home. My mom worked her ass off to support me. My father was 1200 miles away, gave her 100 per month in CS. That was it. So, maybe you're right. Maybe I have daddy issues. Or maybe, just maybe, I want to me nothing like my father (who has been married 5 times) and actually think of.my marriage as forever, or maybe I love my husband so effing much, that the thought of us not being together scared the **** out of me, which makes me Co - dependent, or maybe I am effed up as much as my A and sick attracts sick, or maybe my H and I have problems that I believe we can work through.
But either way, it is what it is. And we are trying to work through it here, through recovery, and through treatment in therapy.
I think you should be happy that there is a F&F forum, alanon, and other programs to help family, otherwise addicts would have many more problems to deal with than their own, idk, like mentally unstable sober people!!!
~Music is my mantra ----{-@
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by dandylion
WOW, Dragon....It is easy to see that you bear a "scapegoat" position in the family. Another characteristic of families that the labels that were pasted on in earlier years often remain ...even after the person may have changed a lot!
Your feelings of anger are real, of course. And that is a lot to carry around all these years.
And, the thing is---this says more about their pathology (or at least as much as yours).
Often, these pathologies are more than one generation old in origin.
Have you ever thought of seeking the help of a therapist who is trained in family therapy to help you face and come to terms with these feelings?
dandylion
Your feelings of anger are real, of course. And that is a lot to carry around all these years.
And, the thing is---this says more about their pathology (or at least as much as yours).
Often, these pathologies are more than one generation old in origin.
Have you ever thought of seeking the help of a therapist who is trained in family therapy to help you face and come to terms with these feelings?
dandylion
That's another thing that friends and family members have to try to remember about addicts and alcoholics...try to be open and hear us out...and whatever you do, DON"T BE AFRAID!!! In my opinion, fear is the number one cause of denial and the repetitive circle of dysfunction. If an alcoholic/addict wants to talk to you honestly about our addictions, please, please, PLEASE listen to us! Even if it's painful, and hard for you to do so...just listen!!! When we want to lie, we are the best liars on earth, but when we tell the truth, there is no one you will find that is more forthright, and sometimes that honesty is scary as hell.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,413
I agree that the double-standard seems pretty blatant, and it would pizz me off too.
I am both alcoholic, and grew up with an alcoholic mother as a codependent child, and boy there are some toxic
connections between the two for me DragonItS.
My mom was just plain unfair when she drank.
To me, my brother, and she had a special double-standard for herself and her drinking and rudeness.
Quite frankly, even though I accept that I chose to drink,
much of the anger and stress which led to me picking up alcohol was because of my family and codependent dynamic.
Dragon, digging out, accepting and releasing the anger towards my family has been the
biggest thing I have done to become successful in my sobriety. It isn't easy but once
you get sober, all the pus of your crappy childhood stuff oozes out and you've got squeeze it all the way out
through therapy, music, journal-writing, physical release or
whatever it takes which hurts like hell if you are doing it right.
But then, a kind of peace comes and you realize that you aren't vested anymore in what
happened in the past, or what your family thinks your "role" is in the family, or even what
they expect you to do around them. It's their monkey, their circus, and not yours.
I have several holes in my drywall from punches that I did when angered by something my mother or brother did or said to me.
I left them there as a reminder of what it looks
like when I give emotional power over me to others, and I decided not to fix them until
I was back fully in control. I said to my husband today that if I had only known years
ago what I know now about codependency, I would have left my family out of my own life years ago.
Your post about your family really resonated with me after thinking that
this morning.
My mother is eight years dead now, and my brother lives in Australia in a whole other hemisphere.
I'm finally ready to fix the holes this year. Guess I'm a slow learner.
Sometimes it just takes time, and distance, and learning to trust and love yourself.
The way lots of us grew up, we had to figure that all out that hard way and the pace varies.
Sobriety has been the greatest gift I have given myself, and I truly hope you find it too.
I am both alcoholic, and grew up with an alcoholic mother as a codependent child, and boy there are some toxic
connections between the two for me DragonItS.
My mom was just plain unfair when she drank.
To me, my brother, and she had a special double-standard for herself and her drinking and rudeness.
Quite frankly, even though I accept that I chose to drink,
much of the anger and stress which led to me picking up alcohol was because of my family and codependent dynamic.
Dragon, digging out, accepting and releasing the anger towards my family has been the
biggest thing I have done to become successful in my sobriety. It isn't easy but once
you get sober, all the pus of your crappy childhood stuff oozes out and you've got squeeze it all the way out
through therapy, music, journal-writing, physical release or
whatever it takes which hurts like hell if you are doing it right.
But then, a kind of peace comes and you realize that you aren't vested anymore in what
happened in the past, or what your family thinks your "role" is in the family, or even what
they expect you to do around them. It's their monkey, their circus, and not yours.
I have several holes in my drywall from punches that I did when angered by something my mother or brother did or said to me.
I left them there as a reminder of what it looks
like when I give emotional power over me to others, and I decided not to fix them until
I was back fully in control. I said to my husband today that if I had only known years
ago what I know now about codependency, I would have left my family out of my own life years ago.
Your post about your family really resonated with me after thinking that
this morning.
My mother is eight years dead now, and my brother lives in Australia in a whole other hemisphere.
I'm finally ready to fix the holes this year. Guess I'm a slow learner.
Sometimes it just takes time, and distance, and learning to trust and love yourself.
The way lots of us grew up, we had to figure that all out that hard way and the pace varies.
Sobriety has been the greatest gift I have given myself, and I truly hope you find it too.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: liverpool, england
Posts: 1,708
listen when you lose it all and your out on the streets with no money and no family then you might be ready to learn how to live and be grateful for having what you have
your going to have to lose it all first before you forget this petty nonsense and get a grip of what is really important in life
can you think of how many kids are starving all around the world and your problem is what exactly ???
its not fair mummy likes my bro better then me ?
talk about spiting dummys out
and then you have the cheek to complain about people who stay in bad relationships !!
i think what has happend is you have read a post in the thread that got your back up as you would of been looking at yourself in the post,
just focus on not picking up that first drink one day at a time and try to learn to be helpful to others not demanding or selfish or jealous of others as its ugly
sorry for being blunt i dont mean to offend you but just given you a few home truths that maybe might help you see yourself the way others will see you
good luck
your going to have to lose it all first before you forget this petty nonsense and get a grip of what is really important in life
can you think of how many kids are starving all around the world and your problem is what exactly ???
its not fair mummy likes my bro better then me ?
talk about spiting dummys out
and then you have the cheek to complain about people who stay in bad relationships !!
i think what has happend is you have read a post in the thread that got your back up as you would of been looking at yourself in the post,
just focus on not picking up that first drink one day at a time and try to learn to be helpful to others not demanding or selfish or jealous of others as its ugly
sorry for being blunt i dont mean to offend you but just given you a few home truths that maybe might help you see yourself the way others will see you
good luck
~Music is my mantra ----{-@
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by desypete
listen when you lose it all and your out on the streets with no money and no family then you might be ready to learn how to live and be grateful for having what you have
your going to have to lose it all first before you forget this petty nonsense and get a grip of what is really important in life
your going to have to lose it all first before you forget this petty nonsense and get a grip of what is really important in life
And for you to call other people's problems "petty nonsense" is pretty petty unto itself desy. I think you need to get a grip.
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In the absence of the forum mods, I'd like to remind everyone of Rule 4:
I'm busy enough.
If we can't keep things civil the thread will close.
Dee
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SR
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No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
If we can't keep things civil the thread will close.
Dee
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SR
~Music is my mantra ----{-@
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 146
Bye the way, I think many of you (not all of course) have shown your true colors by being just as rude and inconsiderate as you have accused me of being. I have stated things I find to be truths in my own life, and have been personal and open about my own experiences. If it bothers you, or I bother you, so be it. But you are doing nothing for yourselves by ganging up on me in a pack like mentality.
I realize there are people that are more popular and favored on this forum (and if you deny that you are totally kidding yourselves) but I do not respond well to cruelty for the sake of cruelty. If you don't like what I have to say, don't read my threads, but if you choose to anyway, do yourselves some justice and stop ganging up like a pack of hormone filled teenagers out for blood.
And sorry Dee, I posted that before reading your post. If you think this thread needs to be closed, that's up to you. I have tried stating my case civilly, and feel I've done nothing to attack anyone personally. I've only stated my feelings, which are obviously (besides a few people who openly relate) not popular.
I realize there are people that are more popular and favored on this forum (and if you deny that you are totally kidding yourselves) but I do not respond well to cruelty for the sake of cruelty. If you don't like what I have to say, don't read my threads, but if you choose to anyway, do yourselves some justice and stop ganging up like a pack of hormone filled teenagers out for blood.
And sorry Dee, I posted that before reading your post. If you think this thread needs to be closed, that's up to you. I have tried stating my case civilly, and feel I've done nothing to attack anyone personally. I've only stated my feelings, which are obviously (besides a few people who openly relate) not popular.
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