redatlanta

(((hugs)))

Moms. Sigh. No, you don't need her to be beating up on your wife, you have a very clear picture of what's going on.

CodeJob

Nothing better than a fistful of quarters. My neighbor got me hooked on claw machines. Also love bubblegum. Air hockey tournament...Pin ball. PAC man. All of which I am rather terrible at. It makes me laugh - like that flappy bird. I drop dead and roar with laughter. Better than Prozac I tell ya!

To tell you the truth my son and I had a blast while H was at rehab. No one stressing us out.

Hammer

Had not thought about that.

Very Peaceful.

jarp

My mum does this too scubadad. My father wasn't an alcoholic but he was abusive and had untreated mental health issues and mum was totally codependant. I think sometimes she is projecting....knows what she should have done, but didn't, and projects her anger at herself and my dad onto my ah and I.

Take care.

Sasha4

I'm from the other side.

I probably have no right posting here and I apologise.

But I wanted to share my experience with you. I understand if you disregard it.
I have been sober 2 years and I have a 4 year old.

My ex had an affair when I was pregnant and then left me a couple of days before my child's 4th birthday and my 40th birthday for a woman from his work with 2 kids aged 4 and 7.

My daughter is my life. I work full time. My family are not near. His family have never ever helped throughout the 4 years.

My only though was my daughter.
I thought I had let her down.
I should have tried harder with her dad.

I braced myself for tears, tantrums and heartbreak from her and endless question of why he lived with her and not us.
He has been a complete swine since he left too.

Everyone told me children are resilient. They cope. I took no notice of them . They were right, I was wrong.

My relationship with my daughter is so much better now he. Has gone.
We have more fun.
We have boundaries which he never had.
She does not ask endless questions where he is.
She see's him a few times a week.
After their visits she comes home, ready for a cuddle with me.
She never mentions what they have done or talks about him for hours.

My main point I wanted to share is that kids DO cope with parental upsets, change or stresses.

Although glad is totally not the right word to use, I think for me it's better it happened when she was young.
I'm not sure how it would be for me if she was 10 or 12 or 17 years old, in terms of being okay, not taking sides, blame etc, coping using other means like drink or drug experimenting.

Yes I am sad, but life is calmer and fewer nasty words are hurled around by me and her dad.
My life is hard, but I don't cry as much.

The other thing I wanted to say is that I felt I owed it to my partner after he left me the 1st time and moved in with his new girlfriend. We had just had a baby. He would miss out. I owed it to him to accept him back and try.

Now I know I really didn't owe him anything and I will never put what I think is right to one side for the sake of someone else who did the same and worse 3
years later.

From now on I'm holding the pen!

And as for all the well meaning mom/dad/onlooker advice take what you need, ditch what you don't like. And yes do remind your mom of your experiences and the need to zip it in front of the kids.

The last thing?
You don't have to decide now, tomorrow, next week, a month or 3 months time whether to stay or go or if you were right or wrong.
Just take it day by day and love your kids and let them love you.
Don't get too far ahead of yourself in planning or imagining the future.
You will know when you know.

I wish you the best xx

ScubaDad

Quick update. She has been at inpatient rehab now for four nights. We speak on the phone at night. She sounds good, very apologetic. She is slowly starting to tell me the truth, or at least more truth that the past. Who knows what is the actual truth. I went to a therapist yesterday and have two more appts lined up. Went to an Alanon meeting yesterday at noon. It was OK, most of the people were significantly older than me and were there about their kids. Someone suggested I attend a "men only" Alanon meeting, it is tonight and I will be going. One of the older guys at the meeting I attended asked me if I was drawn to her because my dad was an alcoholic. I wanted to climb over the table and choke him. I never knew she was an alcoholic. I dated girls that I learned were alcoholics and I ended the relationship. I wanted to yell at him that what is bothering me so much is that I had no idea she was drinking. She never, ever, ever did it in front of me. All hidden. Sneak in the kids bathroom and chug straight vodka.

The kids are doing fine. I told them that mommy is sick and is getting help. I was tired of lying and so the "she is gone to visit family" story ended quickly. The kids know that she sleeps a lot, but I doubt they understand alcoholism. They are 7 and 5, I think that is too young to grasp it.

I spoke with my wife's sponsor and therapist (two different people). They were both helpful. I still have a lot of anger. And I mean a lot. I have to consciously keep my cool around my kids. In public if someone is a smarta$$ to me I am about a second away from putting my foot through their a$$. I know that is bad, so I am doing everything I can to stay calm. My brother is a nurse and he suggested some anti-anxiety meds that are not habit forming (buspar). I don't want to take anything. I am afraid of becoming reliant on them. Overall I am just super mad that I have to make these adjustments to my life.

Saturday was very tough, I went into her credit card history and could see all of the spending over the last two years. It is amazing. There are some weeks where she bought a fifth of vodka 5 out of 7 days, with three days being in a row. I was actually in town that week. I am amazed that I didn't see this. Sunday was a little better.

But Monday and today have been tough. I am working from home, which is non-stop from 7am until 9:40pm last night. Raising two kids. Taking care of two dogs, a cat, two chickens (go urban chickens!), two turtles and a tank full of fish. The house is clean. Laundry is done and put away. Bills are getting paid. It is a crazy amount of work, but I am doing all of it. For years my wife would complain about having so much to do. Well, maybe if you are drunk all day everyday this would be impossible. But if you are sober, you just dig down and get it done.

Sorry for the rant. I had a few moments between phone calls and emails and I wanted to get it off my chest.

Thanks again for the advice. I haven't followed all of it, but I have heard it all. It has been extremely helpful. I hope one day I can help out somebody who has a day like I did last week.

m1k3

Keep posting, it helps with the anger to let it out somewhere safe.

As for Al-anon, try 5 or 6 different meetings. They all have their own flavor. As for the old guy asking about your dad that was actually a good question. I grew up with an alcoholic father and to be honest I never saw my wife as drinking too much for way too long. To me her behavior was more or less normal. If she was asleep at 7 or 8 well I was used to that. If my dad was drinking at home he was to. You'd see him with the occasional beer but you never saw him in the whiskey even though he was every night. If it looks familiar it's easy to miss.

Your friend,

littlesister1

Invest in a punching bag, buy a rubber chicken and when you feel so angry beat the BEJESUS out of the bag!

Hammer

Very Good. That you understand that.

That's ok. You remember the old Jimmy Stewart move they play at Christmas? With "Clarence the Angel" trying to earn his wings as a newbie Angel. He was sort of a dope? You group(s) are sort of like "your team" in all this Recovery Stuff. You do not necessary want a bunch of young dummies to help you. You want some Long-Timer, good solid High-Mileage Angels (I call them my Alananny Angels) there to help. And if they have kids, they are often like our Adult-ish Children for Life like our so-called A&Ws, so they know what the score is.


Yeah, they are ok. We joke a lot more at the Men's Meeting. I get to practice all my jokes I put on here, there. Will save you a seat.

I get some of that around, here (SR), too. Sort of a Projection Thing. Since folks figure they did, you did, too. Does that make sense? Mine was already 4 years AA (very solid) when we met. Relapsed later, at home, on Cooking Vanilla (yeah, no joke -- 33% Alcohol, 66 Proof). But I really had no idea what things were until after the relapse.


Good on the Honesty thing. Will talk more on that later if you need. But you sound pretty solid.

Good. They are supposed to be (two different people, that is). Hopefully the Sponsor is High-Mileage and a Ball-Buster, and hopeful the T is experienced with A's.

Meds were WAY too scary for me, too. Seems the industry just "offers" them -- like a cup of coffee or something. As far as the Anger and other crazy making stuff. That is Step 2. You will see when you get there.

Yeah, we could buy a house on the sh1t she has pulled. Amazing.

Yep. Super. You get it. You know it is even harder for the Women in our shoes, right? Drunk A husband, She keeps up the house, AND She earns the money at the Women's Discount Rate.

You will get there. That is Step 12.

CodeJob

Thanks for the update ScubaDad!

Latte

I wish I could give you my ex husbands number.

He filed for divorce while I was in rehab after we had played this song and dance for the last 10 or so years.

Our divorce was final last Friday. We both just couldn't do it anymore. Our entire family was sick. My addiction caused that but the fact that he never got any help for himself didn't make it any easier. I've been clean and sober for a little over 6 months and this is my fourth try. I live with my boyfriend and have started over. I pray that we haven't done too much damage to our children. You don't have to let it get this far.

My thoughts are with you.

It sounds like you area taking the right steps. Al-Anon is going to be a life saver. I only wish my ex had taken those steps. Even if our marriage was ruined-he still needs help. I cannot talk to him anymore. I am working on getting well and he is just still so ill. I can't save him though, just as you cannot save your wife. She has to want this.

Neeko123

Just make sure to take some time for yourself. I went through something different, but similar in ways. My husband walked out on my daughter and I about 10 months ago. I found myself going into overdrive mode and cleaning, taking care of everything, just...super mom mode. At the same time I was in shock, disbelief, and grieving.

I realized when I sat down with nothing to do, it all just hit me. Those moments when there is calm was when it all would just overwhelm me because I had nothing to distract myself. So be aware that if you get overwhelmed, angry, or sad, that is totally completely normal.

Don't expect yourself to be able to do it all. It's okay to not have the dishes done that day, or not have the energy. It's normal to be angry and in shock, you have every right to be. Just understand that these things take time. It might not be tomorrow, next week, or next month, but eventually it will get better and you are strong enough to get your family through this.

But it sounds like you are taking very thoughtful steps to help get the help and advice that you need. Just don't feel that this is your responsibility and that you alone have to fix this. You can only take care of yourself and your kids. She needs to be responsible for herself.

hopeful4

Have you thought about Celebrate Recovery? You may need to try several different things to see what helps you. CR saved me! They also alot of times have childrens programs, all free.

If you are feeling that angry you may rethink meds just as a temp fix as children will pick up on anger, resentment, and hostility very quickly. Your doing great and are in my prayers!

Hawkeye13

Wishing you a good day today ScubaDad

I understand the anger--I still have a few holes punched in walls over the years from
inappropriate release.

I find physical activity really helps with that for me.

Glad you are actively working on recovery for yourself.
That will make all the difference like Latte says.
The whole family gets sick and even though it doesn't seem fair
(after all, she drank and hid it) it really is true.

Latte

I do want to qualify myself here though. My Father is no longer drinking but has never really found quality recovery. He has been drinking to excess (he is the only one who can call himself an alcoholic) since I was 9 and I'm almost 41 now.

Woodeye

Our stories are somewhat similar, although our kids are older. (2 in college, 1 just starting high school). She's spent the last couple of years drinking heavily and driving. I still can't believe I didn't know. She's 40 days sober today after a 30 day stay in rehab. During her stay, she filled me in on all her lies.

Hopefully the men's Al-anon group will work for you. I found one and that meeting has quickly become my favorite night of the week. My wife is working hard on her program, and so am I.

I look forward to seeing updates and will be rooting you and your wife's recovery. Hang in there.

LvWrAM123

Sounds like you are doing well, SD. When my husband went to rehab last fall we told the kids he was "getting help for problems" kind of stuff, but didn't use words like alcoholism/addiction (10 & 6 at the time). We have since spoken with the older one about more detail around "alcoholism" and will do same with the little guy, in time. I think sick/getting help for problems is a good place to be with 7 & 5, especially since they have not " seen" the drinking, but probably experienced the consequences of her drinking (that was our situation, anyway-kids never saw the drinking, but obviously he was drunk around them at times).

Glad she seems to be "getting it" and seeking help-sounds like she was in a bad spiral of secrets and shame between drinking and infidelity. IP rehab is just a first step, really, in my husband's rehab, that was their whole focus-28 days focused on getting the alcoholic/addict to accept step 1. After he came home, truthfully it was a hard transition for us-was peaceful with him gone, and I was happy he was getting help, and I was busy with work, kids, and recovering from a bad accident I had while he was gone. When he came back, everything was not miraculously "fixed" between us in our relationship (I discovered his secreted drinking/craigslist "encounter" which precipitated rehab). BUT-he was ready for the change. Did 100 AA mtgs in 100 days, group OP, ind OP therapy, eventually marital therapy with me (and I used SR, ind, group mindfulness therapy for my own recovery)-he is 7+ months sober, still goes to AA 4-5x/week!mind therapy! group therapy, meditates, etc. and our life is really getting to a good place-as in, dare I say it, a better than ever before place. There has been a ridiculous amount of heartache and pain on all sides, but we are starting to come through it and the sun is shining, and we are both happy. And our future is not guaranteed-we both know this is a chronic illness, but he is different and I am different too. I have boundaries, I know what I will and won't tolerate, and most importantly, I know that if things change, I can and will be strong for myself and my kids and we will find support and we will be alright. I will protect my kids at all costs-they are innocents in this.

I am glad you have been strong, and have support-keep hanging in there. I hope you are all able to find your way through this-I have faith that you will.

iSPAZ

ScubaDad - First and foremost you are being a good father under incredibly hard circumstances. Don't read too much into what the guy at Alanon said. Some folks are healthier than others. Their experiences can be very different yet very similar. Take what you like and leave the rest. He was just probably eager to help. May have made some assumptions about your situation. I went to several different groups before I found one that sits well with me. I still hit some other groups just for a change of perspective every once in a while. I was married 20+ years with an alcoholic wife. Raised to kids to adults. I knew mine drank and was in denial and lacked a full understanding of the progression of alcoholism. She did not drink when we dated and did not start until about 6 months after my daughter was born. Dealt with the infidelity thing and lots of other chaos and what I now see as emotional abuse. In the end I was taking care of practically everything while she drank. was sent to a Alanon by a counselor. My mother has been alcoholic and drug abuser all her life until about 9mo ago and decided to get help when the only two folks in her family ( me and my brother) said no more. We are done. Doing better but still crazy as a moon bat. Some advise that I did not take and should have was "Take care of yourself". I ended up with a nervous breakdown. Wife used that against me in the divorce. Sleep is so important even though your mind is going 900 mph. Eating right and taking time to relax and have fun with the kids. This is a hideous disease if it is indeed a disease. I do know if it is treated as an illness the recovery rate is greatly increased. Still on the fence though. You sound like you are headed in a good direction and have more solid boundaries than what I was willing to do at the time. It is great that she accepted treatment and maybe she will have a moment of clarity while sober for a few weeks and will put in the work of continued recovery. Most do not sadly. Keep your head up bro!! This is not your fault.

ScubaDad

Hi all. So we are almost a full week now with her in rehab. We talk every evening and every morning for about 15 minutes. She sounds good. It is hard to describe how that feels. I am hopeful that she is going to come out of this and be sober, but I am mad that I am left here running everything. I am working from home this week and raising the kids. They are being great. I just feel very isolated. The two Alanon meetings I have been to are not very helpful. I will keep trying. Everyone is telling me to give the men's meeting another chance. It was a very sad room, lots of deep breaths and beaten down looking faces. Not what I want to be around right now. They are also on average 15 to 20 years older than me. Hard for me to relate to them. How many of them are running a household with two small kids and working?

I need to get out and do something. Today and yesterday we went on two mile hikes. The kids whined a little, but when it was over they said it was fun. I need it. If I stay in this house all day everyday I am going to get too depressed. We have a lake house we can go to this weekend. I asked the kids if they want to go and they are not that in to it. I am considering just going and dealing with their whining. They will probably be fine once we get out on the boat. Doing all of that will be hard with just me, but I can easily do it.

Overall I believe I am doing pretty good. Fairly lonely today. No one I can really talk to about this. My parents listen but end up giving me advice and I don't want any from them. I went to a therapist Monday and Wednesday. She has helped a little. I have an apt with her tomorrow. I just really need to get out and spend time having fun.

Praying

Hi Scubadad.. Your name actually reminds me of "Scuba Steve" from the movie Big Daddy, which makes me smile. If you haven't seen it, it could be a good diversion. (NOT with the kids!)

Great job with the hikes and considering going to the lake this weekend. The kids might gripe, but I think they probably need it too. I go through phases where I let my kids' lack of enthusiasm make me NOT go... but we all feel better if we go, so then I get mad that I should've forced it. Sometimes it's hard to muscle up the energy for the fight though. Shouldn't just one thing be easy?

You're doing just what you need to do. Sending you hugs and hopes for a fun weekend with the kids. Hopefully a few hours of just "being a dad" and enjoying them.