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Old 07-07-2012, 04:37 AM   #1 (permalink)
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do alcoholics really mean the nasty things they say?

any recovering alcoholics out there: when you have said cruel, nasty, spiteful things to the people you love, do you really mean it? i know its the drink talking, but its so confusing, do alcoholics mean to hurt others on purpose? it feels like it. do you feel regret? or just regret the next day? help me understand what my partner is thinking when he tries to hurt me with his mean words, like...

"i don't want our son, and never have. we shouldnt have had him"

"i'm off to stick my dick into something" (if we havnt had sex in a while, its my fault cause he needs it) P.s he hasnt cheated, its just talk

"you're just like my ex, she was controlling too"

"i'm sick of spending all my money on this family" (even though i am the breadwinner, he works part time)

"i'm sick of living in this **** hole. why dont you clean it up?"

"theres plenty of people interested in me, ive had offers from other chicks don't need you"

i could go on and on, he sometimes apologises the next day, but most of the time he doesnt think he needs to apologise, which just causes another fight. so do alcoholics mean what they say when drunk?

he drinks every single day, i could count on one hand how many completely sober days he has had since ive been with him. and even then i dont know really, because he always smells like beer, its just his smell, so i dont know if hes had a drink or not...
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:49 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm not an RA but Was in a relationship with one long enough to try to translate!

"i don't want our son, and never have. we shouldnt have had him"
TRANSLATED: I wanna be the child in this relationship.

"i'm off to stick my dick into something" (if we havnt had sex in a while, its my fault cause he needs it) P.s he hasnt cheated, its just talk.
TRANSLATED: His hand. Who else would be interested?

"you're just like my ex, she was controlling too"
TRANSLATED: She has standards.

"i'm sick of spending all my money on this family" (even though i am the breadwinner, he works part time)
TRANSLATED: I want to spend my money on booze!

"i'm sick of living in this **** hole. why dont you clean it up?"
TRANSLATED: I can't find my beer!

"theres plenty of people interested in me, ive had offers from other chicks don't need you"
TRANSLATED: Yeah, other women like Stella Artois and Brandy Alexander!
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:53 AM   #3 (permalink)
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ha, you put a smile on my face for the first time in ages..thanks for your support
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Yes they mean what they say, the reason they say the most hurtful and outrageous things is to get a reaction.
Addicts have no sense of themselves and they only get validation and worth when they get attention, so when you react to their nonsense, they feel validation.
This is why what they do and say is extreme because any "normal" person would not react to their BS.

I think back to people who've said the craziest sh&t to me and it all came from the mouths of addicts.

Whether they mean it or not, it's still damaging and crazy and no tolerance is all that is needed. I put up with it for far too long.
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:56 AM   #5 (permalink)
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yeah, you are right, and he does get validation and a reaction from me every time. but it just hurts to think he really means it
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:25 AM   #6 (permalink)
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In my experience, whether they mean it or not, it's just a manipulation tactic. If the active alcoholic can deflect your attention and energy away from his/her drinking, then it's working.

It's also used, I think, to keep the enabler in his/her 'place'--to continue the enabling behavior, to protect the addiction.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:27 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Oh, Yes, it hurts. It hurts like a physical pain. I have cried rivers of tears and prayed that they didn't "really" mean it. I think it is a normal human reaction to feel pain when those we have invested our caring and love into stomp on our hearts. Alcoholism is cruel to all it touches.
I have been told to not take it personally, because it is just their way of deflecting guilt and responsibility away from themselves by placing it on us. When I can remember to think of it this way---it keeps me from hurting so much.
You have my sympathy.

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Old 07-07-2012, 05:32 AM   #8 (permalink)
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when I was drinking I said some awful things, but mostly it was just easier than being honest with her and myself
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:51 AM   #9 (permalink)
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When I was drinking, I did not say things like that. Never. I did pick fights with my husband, and said bad things, but never to that level, thank God!

But did I mean the stuff I did say? NO. Frankly, most of the crazy things I did and said were distortions caused the fact that I was poisoning my brain. I was not thinking straight at all, and the crap that came out of my mouth had nothing to do with reality.

I sometimes hear people claim that "in vino veritas"...in wine there is truth. Maybe that is the case for a nonalcoholic who has had a bit too much and gets loose lips as a result. But for me, the things I said were the ravings of a lunatic, not expressions of truth.
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:02 AM   #10 (permalink)
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It doesn't really matter whether or not they mean anything they say or do. They are sick, out-of-control people. What matters is how YOU allow it to affect you, how you react to it, and how long you are going to surround yourself with this sick, demented person.
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:53 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I agree with Learn2Live. Frankly, it doesn't matter whether he "means it" or not -- it's ABUSIVE. My ex husband was like that when he drank and it just kept getting worse as time went on. When my little boy (now a 22 yr old heroin addict) was 4 years old and was standing at our feet ....with tears rolling down his face....watching his dad scream obscenities at his mother--that's when I said "NO MORE"!!!!!!!! I was done taking that kind of abuse and I was not going to let my son learn how to treat women from that man for ONE MORE DAY.

I got counseling from a domestic abuse center and it helped me to see that I had done nothing to deserve that kind of treatment. No one deserves that. Especially not from one you have chosen as your life partner, who is meant to support and respect you...not tear your down to shreds until you're in a pool of tears. I came to understand that because of his strong denial of his problem (everything was MY fault) that there was little chance for improvement. If I wanted the abuse to stop I had to get out, so I did.

You said something that struck a cord with me...
Quote:
i could go on and on, he sometimes apologises the next day, but most of the time he doesnt think he needs to apologise, which just causes another fight.
Really? Is that all you need is an apology? And everything is forgiven? My ex-husband used to apologize deeply the next day...bring flowers...help around the house...take care of the kids. But you know what? Abusive words are like pounding nails in a fence. You can take the nail out, but the hole is still there.

Please get counseling. And yes, you qualify for free counseling from your nearest domestic abuse center because you are the victim of emotional abuse which is recognized as being just as harmful to the psyche as physical abuse is to the body.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:32 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I like that tjp, thank you. Yes, it's abuse. It doesn't matter what KIND of abuse it is, abuse is abuse. So, if he PUNCHES YOU IN THE FACE does it matter whether or not he meant it? Not with this girl. You punch me in the face, you will never have the opportunity to do that to me again. You abuse me, I walk away, and you will never have the opportunity to do that to me again.

I think the first time abuse happens is the most opportune time to nip it in the bud. But we don't recognize abuse early on. We blame ourselves. We say we deserve it. We love them or are in love with them. We are needy or dependent and think we can't live without them. So we take it. And the longer you take it, the more you blame yourself. Till you get to the point where you're insanely asking whether or not the person MEANT TO abuse you.

Sick people will make you sick. Stay AWAY from them.
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:06 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I am with our fellow RA's here...I don't think its that they literally mean what they are saying - it just works. It gets people to leave them alone, it relieves them from being honest with themselves, and it furthers the "self-will" run riot thinking by always being the victim of someone or something else. It's part of the disease process.

Think of it the same way we look at the lying. It is a tactic to protect the addiction. Our job is to stop taking it all so personally, recognize these are sick people, and act accordingly. Learning to not react nor believe whatever came our of my XRA's mouth was a huge turning point for me!
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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There certainly seems to be a lot of vitriole and malevolence toward alcoholics. It think that, as a RA, that I find it bothersome because my pride and self-esteem are impacted by the suggestion that I'm inherently a malicious person.

That's my baggage though.

Speaking from my own experience, the personality/attitude distribution in the recovering community is reflected in the general population.

I struggle with being either selfishly and/or benevolently manipulative. In almost every case this is because a person or thing affects my self-esteem, financial or emotional security, pride, relationship security, or physical or emotional well-being. My default responses are ones that are selfish, fearful, inconsiderate, or dishonest.

When I was still in active addiction and my self-will, expectations, or will/ability to drink were externally affected, I responded badly our of fear. I lived in fear and my only to escape it was through manipulation or control. Thus, I did and said what I had to in order to feel comfortable and safe again.

My current GF (former fiance) witnessed the worst of my alcoholism and bore the brunt of things, simply because she was there. I have no recollection of verbally (and certainly never physically) abusing her, but it did happen on a few occasions during blackouts.

In sobriety, she shared her experiences of the verbal abuse I directed at her. I have no idea whether my words were earnest at the time, and I suspect they were attempts to prevent her from affecting my drinking. However, I hearing of her experiences sober broke my heart and caused me to feel immense shame and regret! I even protested at first, responding "I would've never said that you! It never got that bad . . . did it?". She assures me it did.

My actions in active addiction betray my morals, standards, and values. I reflect on them as if it were a time when I was spiritually possessed i.e. I had lost control of my actions.

So, do the words of active alcoholics/addicts reflect true feelings? In my experience, no they don't. I cannot say whether that is universally the case.
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I'm a recovering alcoholic and the words that describe some of my past behavior do not bother me one bit. Of course there is a lot of vitriole and malevolence toward alcoholics. They do HORRIBLE, monstrous things. Just because I don't remember the harmful, sick things I did does not mean other people were not severely harmed by what I said and did. I am a child of an alcoholic and I can tell you the choices and behaviors of my father have damaged me and my siblings irrevocably. Do I blame him or hate him? No. But whether or not someone chooses to be vitriolic or malevolent toward another human being is THEIR issue. I personally don't find it to be healthy for me or anyone around me to be that way. But if I am, that is something I must work on.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:22 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Fortunately I have never been one to go off on one like that, but my ex used to some nasty things when she was drunk. Some of it was truthful but most things she said were just said to cause maximum damage.
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:00 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I don't know. My ABC told me he hates women and doesn't like having sex then he told me I have saggy boobs. It's no wonder one can feel horrible about one's self. Honestly, I don't know. I do regret lashing out one time in frustration.
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:51 PM   #18 (permalink)
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When I drank, I used to get very belligerent. My BF told me it was like "someone flipped a switch" and I became someone else. I believe him, although I don't remember half the crap I said.

Some of the things he told me I have no memory of saying, nor did I mean them. For me (because I cannot speak for anyone else) it was like alcohol took my emotions and magnified them. If I was angry or upset about something that day, look out!

So no, they probably do not mean it. However, as the others said, it doesn't mean you have to take it. My bf threatened to leave me, and that was what shocked me into getting help. I am afraid of that anger and that person i become when I drink.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:21 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Mine would later try to minimize and blow off the terrible things he had said with, "Meh, I say a lot of things"...even if they don't mean it, for another person to knowingly attempt to inflict that type of pain on another speaks volumes.
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:13 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I really hate to admit this, but I said some terrible and very abusive things when I was drinking, and I MEANT EVERY WORD. I used booze to give me the courage to say what I didn't have the guts to admit when I was sober.
Yeah, I did all the apologies the next day when I began to realize that I might lose my (un)happy home and actually have to take care of myself! But in the end, I meant what I said, I wanted to get out of the relationship but I wanted someone to take care of me so I stayed despite my hatred and anger towards my partner.
When I did my steps, I had to make amends, but I didn't deny that what I said was exactly what I felt and that I relied on booze to do my talking for me. That man put up with me for 12 years! He is remarried now and very happy and I'm happy for him.
Today, I know that being honest from the git-go is best, that communication between parties has to come with courage to speak the truth, and acceptance of whatever the outcome.

I know that I am not relationship material, and I have stayed single since sobering up. What I share here applies to me, my lessons learned and all that I have to share on my experience. I really don't know anything about relationships! I've been married 3 times and I've never been successful.
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