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Old 03-04-2012, 03:44 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Is it Borderline Personality Disorder or Dry Drunk Syndrome?

My husband of 13 years (both of us on our second marriage) has been sober for 3 years now. We both believe he is an alcoholic and substance abuser although this has never been confirmed. He would binge drink and then leave it alone for periods of time and then drink until he was unconscious, he also smoked marijuana continuously and when he had the chance he took presciptions pills - anything he happened to find in the cupboard.

I only discovered this after we got married. He always refused to get help or go to AA and then eventually he did it on his own and a 18 months ago he also gave up cigarettes.

Why is it that I can't celebrate and be happy about his achievements? And why do I find myself almost wishing he was still drinking?

He has become a horrible person and I can't bear to be with him anymore. So difficult and intolerant, angry and suspicious. He over-reacts to any situation and exagerates issues.

He has now moved out which we both agreed would be the best thing under the circumstances, otherwise we'll drive each other insane!

Now that he's gone I've suddenly woken up to what I've been living with and wondered why I tolerated it for this long. My children (19 and 24) refuse to have anything to do with him and are disappointed that I've allowed myself to go through all this misery.

On amaking enquiries about whether the alcohol and substance abuse could have caused damage to his mind, I've been told that it's possible he could have a personality disorder but then the term "dry drunk" has come up. It would seem that someone who abstains is still an alcoholic with the same issues that caused the problem in the first place and while he may not be drinking anymore he still needs help to address these issues.

Are these caused by the alcohol, or lack of it, or would they have already been in place and caused the abuse in the first place?

Anyone have any ideas about how this problem could be dealt with and whether I can hold out any hope for my marriage?

Thankyou
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:01 AM   #2 (permalink)
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It's possible he has some mental health problems and tried to self-medicate, with the predictable results.

I appreciate your desire to diagnose--because within that there's hope of a remedy--but really, you can't be a professional here. Your home and your life can't be a mental health ward. Someone else has to help him now.

There are two possible diagnoses, with attendant outcomes:

1. He's got problems that cause him to be intolerable to live with. He has enough clarity to see these and wish things to be different, and can reach out to all the help that's out there so he can move from point A to point B. In that case, sure, there might be hope for the marriage, but only if he works hard to sort himself out--on his own. Time will tell.

2. He's got problems that cause him to be intolerable to live with. He lacks sufficient clarity to see this, and blames others. He doesn't change, most likely gets worse.

In both these options, a period of separation is key. It's GREAT that he's moved out. Living with The Crazy for so long, you could benefit from the time to get your head straight and just enjoy the healing peace and quiet. Give yourself a year, tell yourself you're just going to heal and be peaceful for a year without him, and then see where you're at.
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:13 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Welcome to the SR family!

Please make yourself at home by reading and posting as much as needed. We are here to support you.

I won't be able to diagnose your husbands behavior, or be able to prescribe a cure.

To me it is impressive to notice the difference in how his behavior (no matter what the cause) has effected your life. With him in you home - you were living in insanity. Without him in your life, you find a place of peacefulness, right?

What is important to you?
What do you want from your one precious life?

I am not asking those things because of lack of concern for your AH (addicted husband), but to point out the value of your own life.

I know when I was married to an active alcoholic, I lost my focus. I became so consumed by his actions, inactions, reactions and crazy making - that I became crazy. Then I came to SR and learned about the three C's of addiction:

I did not Cause it
I can not Control it
I will not Cure it.

The addiction belonged to the other adult in my relationship.

I needed to step away from the addict and give the issue back to the adult with the problem. I wasn't doing this to be mean. I was doing this because I wanted to give the addict the freedom to live his life on his own terms.
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:00 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Alcoholics are not cookie cutter or easy to unravel the "why's" of addiction. Every day science is finding out more and more information about addiction and uncovering fascinating information about the brain and how to treat addiction and coexisting conditions such as ADD, depression, bipolar that are often contributing factors.

Our "knowing" how to address brain issues and social, mental and spiritual conditions of untreated alcoholism only helps us to know that they are "not on the path" of recovery... in my case it often adds to my codieness! I want to "control" his recovery as I am so "knowleable" about addictions, causes and methods and modes of recovery!

He knows the same stuff but chooses not to apply it and he relapses... and the cycle continues over and over and over again.

That being said... to me it does help to understand addiction and I have read hundreds of books many science based. In my opinion the best book out there for an introduction to alcoholism that is comprehensive yet easy to understand with the most accurate and up to date information and suggestions of how to structure recovery is Dr. Amen's "Unchain Your Brain". It is simply excellent in every way for the addct or those who love him or her.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:55 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Welcome to the SR family!




I know when I was married to an active alcoholic, I lost my focus. I became so consumed by his actions, inactions, reactions and crazy making - that I became crazy. Then I came to SR and learned about the three C's of addiction:


This is exactly what I've been doing - thank you for reminding me.




I needed to step away from the addict and give the issue back to the adult with the problem. I wasn't doing this to be mean. I was doing this because I wanted to give the addict the freedom to live his life on his own terms.

I need to pray for the strength to do this. I know this is what I need to do. But......... it's so hard to walk away.

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Old 03-04-2012, 09:02 AM   #6 (permalink)
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It's possible he has some mental health problems and tried to self-medicate, with the predictable results.

I appreciate your desire to diagnose--because within that there's hope of a remedy--but really, you can't be a professional here. Your home and your life can't be a mental health ward. Someone else has to help him now.

There are two possible diagnoses, with attendant outcomes:

1. He's got problems that cause him to be intolerable to live with. He has enough clarity to see these and wish things to be different, and can reach out to all the help that's out there so he can move from point A to point B. In that case, sure, there might be hope for the marriage, but only if he works hard to sort himself out--on his own. Time will tell.

2. He's got problems that cause him to be intolerable to live with. He lacks sufficient clarity to see this, and blames others. He doesn't change, most likely gets worse.

In both these options, a period of separation is key. It's GREAT that he's moved out. Living with The Crazy for so long, you could benefit from the time to get your head straight and just enjoy the healing peace and quiet. Give yourself a year, tell yourself you're just going to heal and be peaceful for a year without him, and then see where you're at.
Thank you for these words. I feel like I have permission to take a break! It's given me some peace where I felt only sadness and desperation.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:39 AM   #7 (permalink)
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My stbxAH fits many of the criteria (as observed by two separate therapists of HIS) for Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder. I suspect that many people who suffer from these also suffer from addiction-- a self medicating kind of thing.

The book "stop walking on eggshells" is a good eye opener for a lot of BPD behavior. And frankly even if someone doesn't have BPD, the behaviors it describes seem to fit a lot of A behavior too...
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
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My stbxAH fits many of the criteria (as observed by two separate therapists of HIS) for Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder. I suspect that many people who suffer from these also suffer from addiction-- a self medicating kind of thing.

The book "stop walking on eggshells" is a good eye opener for a lot of BPD behavior. And frankly even if someone doesn't have BPD, the behaviors it describes seem to fit a lot of A behavior too...
I second this book! I, for many years, thought my husband was borderline but then I started thinking he was a dry drunk. Then he started drinking again so then I really had a conundrum on my hands. I finally decided that his craziness was HIS to own and that I needed to learn how NOT to get sucked into his crap, drinking or not(BPD or dry drunk, doesn't really matter) so I got myself into Al Anon and I'm not looking back. My AH decided it would be fun to throw in antidepressants into his mix, too, so that doesn't help things even though he's now stopped drinking due to a DUI.
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Actions speak louder than words. When someone shows you what they are truly made of BELIEVE them...........
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Stop Walking on Eggshells is a good book. I read that some time ago because it described my mother. The important thing is that the book talks about boundaries and the fact that you can't control someone else's behavior. No matter what you do, they will become angry and start blaming you. So, it's pretty much telling you to take back your life and your happiness. I read several books and website about BPD, and it helped me take back my life. I stopped feeling responsible for my mom's behavior, and stopped allowing her to mistreat me.

No matter what the diagnoses is for your AH, the same rules apply. You don't want to be with somebody who is driving you crazy. He is obviously acting in a way that you can't tolerate. You can't control him. He's going to do what he's going to do no matter what. So, it doesn't matter whether he has BPD, is dry drunk, or whatever--no matter what it is, you need to protect your sanity.
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
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My first question would be is he attending AA meeting regularly and working a program?.I know for myself the behaviors come out if they are not and they tend to act out.Its also important if you decide to to give your relastionship another chance Alanon would be a good thing for that.I know in my situation it has helped.I always thought it was me and hearing other people issues had me understand I had nothing to do with it.I've been married for 25 years and it has helped me in many ways.I know when I first went I told myself why?? should I go.But it was worth it.I hope for the best for you

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Old 03-04-2012, 11:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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maybe he's just a miserable person. at some point we have to quit trying to figure out what is WRONG with them and work on what we need to do to make our own life RIGHT.
WELL SAID !! Thank you
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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My first question would be is he attending AA meeting regularly and working a program?.I know for myself the behaviors come out if they are not and they tend to act out.Its also important if you decide to to give your relastionship another chance Alanon would be a good thing for that.I know in my situation it has helped.I always thought it was me and hearing other people issues had me understand I had nothing to do with it.I've been married for 25 years and it has helped me in many ways.I know when I first went I told myself why?? should I go.But it was worth it.I hope for the best for you

Ovid
He isn't attending AA meetings. He never has - always refused. He feels that since he has managed to abstain for the past 3 years that he must be doing fine. I haven't yet pointed out to him that he hasn't actually tackled all other issues and that abstaining isn't enough.

I would be happy to join Alanon but how would they feel if I explained that my husband hasn't had a drink in three years?

I tried to explain to his family but they think I'm just making excuses. They say "He's given up everything now - surely you should be happy". I think it was easier when he was drinking......but then I realise that at least I had something to blame it on then.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Stop Walking on Eggshells is a good book. I read that some time ago because it described my mother. The important thing is that the book talks about boundaries and the fact that you can't control someone else's behavior. No matter what you do, they will become angry and start blaming you. So, it's pretty much telling you to take back your life and your happiness. I read several books and website about BPD, and it helped me take back my life. I stopped feeling responsible for my mom's behavior, and stopped allowing her to mistreat me.

No matter what the diagnoses is for your AH, the same rules apply. You don't want to be with somebody who is driving you crazy. He is obviously acting in a way that you can't tolerate. You can't control him. He's going to do what he's going to do no matter what. So, it doesn't matter whether he has BPD, is dry drunk, or whatever--no matter what it is, you need to protect your sanity.
I'm going to try and find that book.
You're right - it doesn't matter what the diagnoses is.
The facts are that I can't tolerate his behaviour and neither can my children and it's making our lives miserable.
Nevertheless, I have hopes of saving my marriage and felt if I could pinpoint the problem and persuade him that he needs help, then maybe we could still look forward to a future together.
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Old 03-05-2012, 05:45 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I would be happy to join Alanon but how would they feel if I explained that my husband hasn't had a drink in three years?

:
Alanon is for the loved one of an alcoholic -whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not.

Something to that effect is read at every meeting.

I have attended meetings with partners of alcoholics that have been active in Alanon for over 15 years. Their sober parnters are no longer drinking, and active in AA. They continue to work their programs daily, and they offers their ES&H (experience, strength and hope) to others.
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:03 AM   #16 (permalink)
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He isn't attending AA meetings. He never has - always refused. He feels that since he has managed to abstain for the past 3 years that he must be doing fine. I haven't yet pointed out to him that he hasn't actually tackled all other issues and that abstaining isn't enough.

I would be happy to join Alanon but how would they feel if I explained that my husband hasn't had a drink in three years?

I tried to explain to his family but they think I'm just making excuses. They say "He's given up everything now - surely you should be happy". I think it was easier when he was drinking......but then I realise that at least I had something to blame it on then.
It's critical, I think, to keep in mind that while it's important that individuals who have quit an addiction learn new behaviors, AA is not the only way. If you look around this forum, you'll "meet" a large variety of people in recovery, the majority of whom are not in a 12 step program. Some use SR as their sole support group; others use secular recovery approaches like SMART Recovery (including me, and I'm sober 13+ years), LifeRing, SOS, AVRT.

So, the issue here isn't whether someone is going to AA, it's whether or not they are exhibiting healthy behaviors post-abstinence, and if not, whether they are taking action to change the situation.
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:31 AM   #17 (permalink)
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He isn't attending AA meetings. He never has - always refused. He feels that since he has managed to abstain for the past 3 years that he must be doing fine. I haven't yet pointed out to him that he hasn't actually tackled all other issues and that abstaining isn't enough.
Even if you point it out to him, he won't get it. He needs to make that journey on his own. My husband, while in detox, also didn't think he needed a program. His counselors tried to make me assist them in getting him into inpatient treatment (ironic given they work with a 12 step program and the first thing you learn on both sides is that the alcoholic is solely responsible for their addiction) and into a 12 step program. The harder they pushed, the more my husband didn't want to do those things. He wound hitching his own ride on the clue bus and decided to take part in outpatient treatment.

I also want to say that even though I had started the process of detaching from my husband's addiction long before he wound up in detox, the nearly 2 weeks he was in there, mostly without contact, was incredible for my healing.
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:53 PM   #18 (permalink)
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He isn't attending AA meetings. He never has - always refused. He feels that since he has managed to abstain for the past 3 years that he must be doing fine. I haven't yet pointed out to him that he hasn't actually tackled all other issues and that abstaining isn't enough.

I would be happy to join Alanon but how would they feel if I explained that my husband hasn't had a drink in three years?

I tried to explain to his family but they think I'm just making excuses. They say "He's given up everything now - surely you should be happy". I think it was easier when he was drinking......but then I realise that at least I had something to blame it on then.
My wife had 8 years and stopped going to meetings and shortly after that started using.It was unbearable.I thought I was in a nut house far before she began taking perscription medication.I had to make some serious choices and instead of making threats that meant nothing time after time.I was asked to give Alanon a try.Once I had an understanding of what exactly was going on with my situation.It challenged her to look at her side of the street.I heard all the behaviors through other peoples lives and I understood that was happening in my own life.I was able not be affected after a while.Honestly it was like having a child in an adult body,Some what like a demon.It took time I stopped making all the threats that made everything my problem and her behavior abruptly stopped.Today I have a good life like I had when I first met her.Which I thought was over.Its very easy to throw it all away But even I had to start acting like an adult.Many people will tell you throw the bum out.Im not that person.I hear you care for him and something worked for 13 years.You get one shot to take your life back.Whether with him or without.There is no way that you have not been affected by living with an alcoholic.I didn't think I was for many years and I would have carryed all my scars to any other relastionship I got into.

PS They would understand he has 3 years but it wouldn't be about him

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Old 03-05-2012, 05:07 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I second the poster who said that the book was useful for life in general-- setting boundaries, not letting others issues dictate my own life etc... Maybe it should be marketed as a book for anyone in a dysfunctional r/s... I bought it thinking it would explain my stbxAH and mother to me and it wound up helping me realize that I needed to worry less about them and more about me since the only one I can control is me...
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Even if you point it out to him, he won't get it. He needs to make that journey on his own. My husband, while in detox, also didn't think he needed a program. His counselors tried to make me assist them in getting him into inpatient treatment (ironic given they work with a 12 step program and the first thing you learn on both sides is that the alcoholic is solely responsible for their addiction) and into a 12 step program. The harder they pushed, the more my husband didn't want to do those things. He wound hitching his own ride on the clue bus and decided to take part in outpatient treatment.

I also want to say that even though I had started the process of detaching from my husband's addiction long before he wound up in detox, the nearly 2 weeks he was in there, mostly without contact, was incredible for my healing.
I have to say that I'm amazed at how much I'm enjoying this time alone. I was always so scared to be left alone and I think that's half the reason why I never did anything about this situation before now. And now I find that I feel better than I have for ages, it's so peaceful and I realise what stress I've been living under.
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