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Old 09-07-2011, 01:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Do they ever apologize *for drinking*

I am curious about something, which I alluded to in this post:
Does Society Hate Alcoholics?
For those of you with partners that have quit, have they apologized for drinking (not for what they did after they drank or in order to drink)? In other words, have they said "I am sorry for drinking all those years in spite of the consequences, and that I put you through hell because of it. I should have known better, and I should have quit sooner?" If so, did that make a difference to you?

There is a reason I ask. I believe that much of the disdain towards addicted people results from the fact that very few ever do this, even after quitting. If they did, I suspect that much of the resentment would be alleviated.
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I believe that much of the disdain towards addicted people results from the fact that very few ever do this, even after quitting. If they did, I suspect that much of the resentment would be alleviated.
I think that, statistically speaking, very few ever quit. So, in my view, it's not really about apologizing.

I've been reading this forum for several years, and from what I can tell, apologies, even sincere ones, don't make all that much difference.

I've seen posts by loved ones wondering "when will I get my amends," and feeling resentful about not having gotten an apology. I've also seen posts by loved ones saying now that the alcoholic has quit, they still cannot let go of the past and move on, no matter how many apologies they get. So, we want our apologies, but then when we get them, it's still not enough!

FWIW, I think much of the disdain toward addicted people is a result of the behavior they exhibit during active addiction, not a lack of apology afterward.

L
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
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FWIW, I think much of the disdain toward addicted people is a result of the behavior they exhibit during active addiction, not a lack of apology afterward.
This is true, and I don't expect that an apology will automatically fix things, as it does take time. However, I think that addicted people tend to convince themselves that getting loaded over and over again is an innocent act. Many continue to believe it was an innocent act long after quitting, which does not help the situation. Or am I wrong here?
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Possibly, but not having been in those shoes, I can't really say. I do know that for a very long time, I took my husband's behavior personally, which led to a lot of resentment on my part. I've since come to realize that it really had nothing to do with me.

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Old 09-07-2011, 03:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I thought Love Means Never Having to Say You're Sorry! (how many of you remember that "sorry" line?)

I think LaTeeDa is right--if you truly detach, apologies might be nice, but not necessary, IMHO. I wouldn't want to waste my life energy waiting for an apology--that's in the RA's court, not mine.

My AH messes up and sometimes apologizes, sometimes doesn't. I don't expect an apology, and I don't wait for one, and I don't get mad if I don't get one. I just go on my merry way.

One time some friends of mine went with their church group to bring gifts to poor people in town for Christmas. When they came back they complained that "they never even said thank you!" Well, I wanted to ask, is that why you went? To be validated with their gratitude? I thought you went simply to give them gifts. We can't look into the hearts of other people--sometimes remorse is there/gratitude is there, but hard to express for whatever reason.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Mine never did get sober, and was also abusive, so use that as a filter when you read this.

That said, he frequently apologized for drinking. He would tell me how sorry he was, that alcohol turned him into a different person, that he knew he couldn't drink, that he recognized the effect it had on all of his relationships, not just the relationship he had with me. He never used the word "alcoholic," but he did acknowledge that he had a major problem with alcoholism, and that he needed to stop.

He apologized for a lot of things he didn't mean, to the point where even to this day if he walked through the door and apologized to me right now I wouldn't believe him. "I'm sorry" doesn't mean anything to me anymore, just another manipulation tool, an overused phrase that no longer holds any meaning.
Except when he apologized about the alcohol. You could see the pain he felt, when he had enough clarity to admit it was a problem. That's the only apology of his that I ever truly believed, the only one that ever really meant anything because it was the only one that he meant.

I don't feel disdain for him. I feel sorry for him. He knows his problem, he knows he needs to stop, but he just won't allow himself to feel strong enough to follow through on that knowledge. He is a prisoner of his own disdain for himself, his own lack of self-respect, his own sense of helplessness, and so he won't try because he's already determined it will fail.
I wouldn't wish that fate on anybody, and I sincerely hope that someday, before its too late, he discovers that he is strong enough, and gets the help he needs to get healthy.

That's not my battle anymore, though, and it never was, no matter how much I tried to convince myself of this, and no matter how much he tried to convince me of this.
I don't respect the alcoholism, but I respect the person who has alcoholism, and I will give him enough respect to live his own life on his own terms, even when I do not agree with them, even if they have a very good chance of killing him in the end. This is what I can do for him. I can let go, and let him be who he is.

Living through the relationship with him was a living hell, and I have reached quite a few personal lows in the process, and sunken to some depths I never thought I'd ever reach.
But I learned so much, not only through the process and through Al-Anon, but I have also learned a great many things from him. While the relationship itself drained my sense of self-worth, now that I am separate of that draining force I am free to realize that I have a greater self-esteem than I ever had growing up, and some of that is due to the happy times and memories that I have with him. We may have had an awful lot of cloud and only a tiny bit of silver lining towards the end, but through the years we spent together there was an awful lot of silver, too. I have a hope chest full of pictures and memories and scrapbooks, and they contain more good than bad.

Alcoholism is a horrible disease, and it brings out the worst in everyone involved. That doesn't mean that everything to do with the alcoholic is horrible, nor does it mean the alcoholic is a horrible person.
I'm not going back to that relationship, and I never intend to repeat that roller coaster of emotions with anyone. The fact that I recognize this, though, is still a credit to the relationship, because I am identifying my issues in the relationship as well, I am working towards a healthier place, and I am a greater, stronger, wiser person because of the experience. So while I would not wish the specifics on anyone, I have survived, I have come out the other side, and I am changing for the better in ways I would not have changed had I not experienced this. I am growing in a better direction, and I am holding strong to my sense of self-worth, for the first time in my life.

He does not owe me anything, because I got what I needed in the process, and now I am moving on. I wish him the best, I truly hold him no ill will, with the possible exception of a few things I haven't worked through yet because I haven't realized that I need to work through them yet (self-awareness happens in pieces, this is how I am still sane! *Grins), but all in all, I have worked my way through that anger phase and I can let him go in peace, regardless of his decisions in the past, the present, or the future.

I don't need an amends anymore, because I have a life, and it is a good one.

I have learned that my attitude has much more to do with my perspective than anyone else's behaviors or choices. And I have learned that I can have sympathy for others without participating in drama that isn't my own.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't necessarily agree. I think it is the unwillingness to take ownership of what havoc they wrought even after sober. I speak as someone who is not addicted, so it might be a perspective I do not fully understand, but once they are sober, how can they not look at the devastation and know they caused it? I also think they KNOW even when using it is not an innocent act. JMHO
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Possibly, but not having been in those shoes, I can't really say. I do know that for a very long time, I took my husband's behavior personally, which led to a lot of resentment on my part. I've since come to realize that it really had nothing to do with me.
True, the addiction is driving the behavior, and it is rarely personal, but I firmly believe that problem drinkers and alcoholics who have not yet come to see the difference between right and wrong as it pertains to their own drinking, still have a long way to go.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:17 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Wow Starcat, what a great post! Sometimes, the thanks button just isn't adequate.

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Old 09-07-2011, 03:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Only speaking for myself, I feel like I never got a sincere apology from stbxah. But it would have, and still could make a huge difference. He often through out a sorry but it was obviously to get me to back off or just to smooth things over.

A sincere apology would mean the world to me. It would mean that real sobriety was reached, and even though addiction is an illness, he played a role in allowing it to continue/rejecting sobriety.

Being realistic, I'm not sure if a true apology is possible. There is so much denial w/ the disease. It's like my husband and I saw things through a different lens (him buzzed, me sober). So he (and his disease) always convinced him that things were not that bad. He was (and still is) incapable of really seeing how his drinking affected me and the kids. So not sure it is possible, but a true apology would mean a lot. It would mean he was well enough to see his own alcoholism and it's effect on his family. I almost think this (along with sober behaviors/living) would be a sign of personal growth and accountability for him.

My husband is still drinking. He came home for 6 weeks after almost a year living apart from family. At end of 6 wks he was drinking again and is now out for good. We r divorcing. I say this, because before I made decision for him to come home, he had not apologized. He was doing aa, but I guess just going through the motions. At the time, I spoke with a friend and was asking exactly your question....why has he not apologized? Will he ever apologize? I made the choice to give our marriage a last chance and figured he'd apologize in time. He did not. He started drinking and is now gone. I think that a true and genuine apology, for our relationship, would have made a difference. Not just the words; I think the true and honest apology only comes after true and real sobriety. Does that make sense? Just my thoughts....
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I think it is the unwillingness to take ownership of what havoc they wrought even after sober.
I suppose this is more precisely what I meant - taking ownership.

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I speak as someone who is not addicted, so it might be a perspective I do not fully understand, but once they are sober, how can they not look at the devastation and know they caused it?

I also think they KNOW even when using it is not an innocent act. JMHO
Oh, they certainly know, at least on some level, but it is far easier to consider oneself a victim of circumstances, whether internal or external.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
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He was doing aa, but I guess just going through the motions. At the time, I spoke with a friend and was asking exactly your question....why has he not apologized? Will he ever apologize? I made the choice to give our marriage a last chance and figured he'd apologize in time. He did not. He started drinking and is now gone. I think that a true and genuine apology, for our relationship, would have made a difference. Not just the words; I think the true and honest apology only comes after true and real sobriety. Does that make sense? Just my thoughts....
Thanks, and yes, it makes sense. As you've learned, no amount of "going through the motions" is a substitute for quitting. One must come to see drinking, in and of itself, for what it is, or nothing will change. I'm sorry you had to go through this.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Let's see.....

Maternal grandmother never apologized to her children for her drinking or for allowing their alcoholic stepfather to leave them in the car on the way home from school while he stopped at the bar. Said stepfather never apologized once sober for his behavior or drinking, either.

Sister did apologize to me for her behavior once, but not for drinking. She also still has many ideas about how her life is all our parents' fault.

A stepson offered an apology with the twist that if I did not accept his apology then I was the bad person.

Can't say as I or any member of my family has received a sincere apology for any drinking or behavior while drinking.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Oh, they certainly know, at least on some level, but it is far easier to consider oneself a victim of circumstances, whether internal or external.
That is a question that runs through my mind ALL the time. It is almost an obsession! How can HE see himself as a VICTIM??? My xabf still contacts my sister telling her what a victim he is. Can anyone explain that??? I think it is just a rhetorical question. I need to stop letting that dog in my head chase it's tail over this one. ((((((sigh))))) Perhaps it just goes hand in hand with the ability to truly apologize.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:53 PM   #15 (permalink)
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That is a question that runs through my mind ALL the time. It is almost an obsession! How can HE see himself as a VICTIM??? My xabf still contacts my sister telling her what a victim he is. Can anyone explain that???
It is the nature of addiction to exploit any and all circumstances to fit the addictive mandate, so as to protect the supply and to keep on drinking. As long as one remains a victim of circumstances, then one is not responsible for quitting, and the burden can be passed on to others.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
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then one is not responsible for quitting, and the burden can be passed on to others.
I'm a little snarky about this today so I have two words for him: Cowboy (the f) UP! Clearly, I need to work on this.....
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm a little snarky about this today so I have two words for him: Cowboy (the f) UP! Clearly, I need to work on this.....
I don't know what to tell you, except that you are indeed correct in assuming that he needs to cowboy up. I do know from personal experience that as long as an addicted person still entertains a rescue fantasy (and nearly all do), whereby someone else will save them, nothing will change.
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:14 PM   #18 (permalink)
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My exabf apologized many times, it mean't nothing, he believed that his apology was all he needed to do, I was appeased...so off he went, doing the same things again.

An apology, means nothing to me, unless it is backed up with positive actions.
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:14 PM   #19 (permalink)
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One word that sums up the Alcoholics behaviour for me; Selfish. When I think about my partner in social situations, how she has always tried to dominate the conversation (usually talking rubbish) how she never leaves a space for other peoples thoughts and observations, especially when they have a subtle edge. Then when things go awry how everyone but her is to blame! I'm angry with myself for having let this continue for so long.
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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If AH were to apologize, an apology for the drinking itself would be low on the list of things I'd think I'd care for him to apologize for.

His behavior has been abhorrent with and without alcohol and frankly his drinking had very little to do with how nasty a human being he became over the years.

I think that apologizing for drinking makes it seem that the behaviors are all attributable to the act of drinking itself when in my experience, AH's alcoholic/abusive behaviors occurred all the time-- drinking had nothing to do with it.

Not sure if that answers your question but that's my 2 cents.
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