SoloMio

I think some of us (well, I'll speak for myself) get a really strong reaction when people in the media die because of the way they choose to live their lives.

So, even though I have never particularly followed Amy Winehouse, I've been obsessed with the fact that such a creative, talented individual has gone the way of Janis Joplin, Morrison, and Kurt Cobain.

Browsing wikipedia, I was reading about Kurt Cobain (my sons LOVED Kurt Cobain, so I, by proxy, knew a bit about him and his music, even though my generation is Beatles all the way).

In reading about the reaction of his death by his bandmates, I was struck by Dave Grohl's quote:

I really related to that, as that has been my spiritual work of late. Sometimes I feel so angry and unprepared emotionally.. I feel like Joan Crawford in the movie Mommie Dearest, where she is yelling at the maid for leaving dirt under the plant pot, and when the maid apologizes, Joan Crawford yells "I'm not mad at YOU, I'm mad at the DIRT!" That's exactly how I feel about alcohol and alcoholics, but I'm trying to stop being mad at even the dirt.

In a blog entry that I wrote on my own blog there's a great quote from Zen master Bankei that's appropriate here, and which I am trying to "work" every day:

So, Amy Winehouse, Kurt Cobain, and my suffering mind, may you all RIP.

sugarbear1

Alcoholism is not a choice, it is a DISEASE that is insidious and deadly. Do you hate the pancreas in a diabetic or do you hate sugar? Alcoholism is an obsession of the mind coupled with an allergy of the body. Just saying.

Peace and Love

MyBetterWorld

I agree to an extent......alcoholism becomes what it is though.

I have a hard time in that I think after a person/alcoholic becomes sober, makes ammends and learns the consequences of drinking, THEN DRINKS AGAIN, it then becomes their CHOICE.

A diabetic doesn't learn about their disease, apologize to those they have hurt, recover, and then chose to have diabetes again.

Also, just sayin.

Tuffgirl

The choice is whether or not to seek sobriety. Just like seeking treatment for diabetes or cancer, so it doesn't kill you, and you can successfully manage the disease.

Amy Winehouse's death is very sad...she had great talent and was so young.

SoloMio

Sometimes they do--my sister-in-law died at 49 from complications from diabetes. She was very intelligent, very loving and devoted to my brother, and never did anything to stop the progression of her disease.

The point I was making was not "should we blame the alcohol or blame the alcoholic"--the point is we should just stop blaming. It is what it is, and it's our job to adjust to reality.

EnoughisEnough7

"When you love someone who suffers from the disease of addiction you await the phone call. There will be a phone call. The sincere hope is that the call will be from the addict themselves, telling you they’ve had enough, that they’re ready to stop, ready to try something new. Of course though, you fear the other call, the sad nocturnal chime from a friend or relative telling you it’s too late, she’s gone."



- Quote from Russell Brand, an addict in recovery and old friend of Amy Winehouse



So deeply poignant yet painfully true -

vujade

I hate the disease...the same way that I would hate cancer or diabetes. I do not hate the alcoholic or the diabetic, though. That is where I find emotional freedom.

I agree with TG. Amy Winehouse was an incredibly talented woman. I'm a singer and I followed her work. She was one of those people who didn't need technology to enhance her talent and sang with true soul. However, alcoholism/addiction isn't picky about its prey - it claims people of all walks of life every day. So sad.

Thumper

AW's story is a sad, painful, tragedy.

I agree with that. I don't think anyone chooses to be an alcoholic and you can't un-choose it.

Recovery, now that seems like a choice. Not an easy one, but a choice, and a worthy one. That is where alcoholism is different from cancer and so many other diseases. Recovery is not a choice for those folks, it is a chance.

TeM

On one news show, they interviewed an MTV reporter who was familiar with Winehouse's history. The host asked him why the parents had not intervened, and the MTV guy said that they had tried. He went on to say that, in the end, the addict can't really be helped unless they want to be helped.

I was watching the show with my AW, and I wondered if any of it was sinking in. I probably should have asked, but I resolved a while back to stop harassing her about it, since it only makes her more determined to show me that she can drink if she wants to.

transformyself

I love every word this woman sings. Her family watched, first in horror and then eventually with desperate acceptance, as she spiraled down. Her mother said she seemed really out of it the day before. She may have died from something else, but the addiction is what ate her away.

She used to be so beautiful, but the world watched her waste away, literally. She was so thin, lost teeth, was all bruised. Horrible. And no way to stop it.

Haven't you known addicts or alcoholics who kill themselves? I've lost so many. It's horrible, especially when you truly love them without the rage and anger and blame.

I lost two good friends this way. The last time I saw S. alive, we had looked for him for days and he finally came home, crawled through the kitchen, covered in dirt. He died not too long after. Nothing, nothing at all anyone of us could do.

Good bye Goddess. Thank you for sharing your life with us
http://www.russellbrand.tv/2011/07/for-amy/

TakingCharge999

RIP Amy Winehouse.
I can't believe it, she was one year younger than me.
I know her boyfriend (or one of them) was a raging addict and a bad influence.
This made me remember the other thread about addict "romances".
He did not kill her but certainly contributed. Love? more like using each other to continue a downward spiral.
Maybe he is next.
The only romance there is between a human being and death.

Lindzali

Amy Winehouse's death has really affected me since it happened so soon after my ex's (also 27 when he passed away from his addiction). It's so true that only the addict can help themselves...Russell Brand's quote definitely resonated with me.

RIP Amy.

theuncertainty

Wishing Amy Winehouse peace and wishing her friends and family continued strength and peace.

Transform, thank you for sharing Russell Brand's tribute. It's hard to remember that he can be serious. His post very poignantly balanced the glorious singer, the addict, and the person. And he captured and explained so well the wait those of us on this side of the addiction contend with.

emp919

Noticing others mentioning Russell Brand's words. I was particularly struck by truth (by my experience, anyway) of the following, in considering relationships with people who struggle with addictions:

"All addicts, regardless of the substance or their social status share a consistent and obvious symptom; they're not quite present when you talk to them. They communicate to you through a barely discernible but un-ignorable veil. Whether a homeless smack head troubling you for 50p for a cup of tea or a coked-up, pinstriped exec foaming off about his ‘speedboat' there is a toxic aura that prevents connection. They have about them the air of elsewhere, that they're looking through you to somewhere else they'd rather be. And of course they are. The priority of any addict is to anaesthetise the pain of living to ease the passage of the day with some purchased relief." (Russell Brand)

My AH checked himself into a hospital yesterday; no idea where this is headed. For the moment, just grateful that the phone call I got was that decision of his, and not someone telling me where they found him.

transformyself

I posted this article written by Brand, in part, because without actually saying, "End the Drug War," he has put forth a pleas for compassion and sanity-using the same reasoning that myself and thousands of other leaders in drug policy reform use. We try to help folks shift their thinking.

We need appropriate, health and science based alternatives to incarceration. Rather than the legal system, wouldn't it be nice if a separated parent, or frightened and frustrated mother who is worried about their A's possible impairment could discuss and mediate with a professional whose training is grounded in science, compassion and human rights?

This is what I mean by the punitive drug war. We extend our anger towards the A or addict on a sociatal level, or however that's spelled. This just shouldn't be handled by cops, but by physicians, family and concerned loved ones that can handle it. Some loved ones can't and no one will blame them for it.

Bottom line is, there will be times when this fatal disease takes out loved ones and not incarceration or humanity or compassion or treatment can stop it.

Alone22

"should we blame the alcohol or blame the alcoholic"--the point is we should just stop blaming. It is what it is, and it's our job to adjust to reality. thank you Solo. This is exactly where I am at with my AH disease. I am now trying to adjust to reality. I see it, I understand it (I think) and now it is just my choice to choose what to do with my life. I can't blame my AH anymore (for hurting my feelings, not stepping up for his family, being lazy, lying etc) because now I feel fully informed in regards to the disease. This is REALITY, this is my AH. I can feel sympathy for him because of his condition, but it is up to me to choice to accept what life is or move on. In some respects it feels great... no more banging my head against the wall, no more feeling hurt and taking things personally, but yet now I realize my future is up to me and only me because he is not someone I can rely on at all. His disease is not to be trusted. I used to think once he accepted he was an A and wanted to quit drinking it would all be "better". What I realized (after 8 years of him admitting he is an A, ) is that it is not better, not by a long shot and the reality is that it may never be better.

My heart goes out to those parents who have a child with this disease. It is hard enough watching my AH. I can't imagine having to watch one of my kids go through it. I pray I never do.

Panther

The way I see it is like this - for whatever reason there are diseases in this world. Be it alcoholism, cancer, aids, diabetes. Sometimes these diseases take the people we love away from us much earlier than we had ever anticipated letting them go. We can blame the person, we can blame the people around them, we can even blame God, but that doesn't change anything. The only thing we can change is the way we relate to others and what purpose and conviction we have in our lives.

The way this disease has changed me is by this: I am much more understanding and empathetic than I ever would have been otherwise. I sincerely try not to judge others. I realize that many judgments are made out of ignorance, so I try to educate myself.

I also try to be more loving. Seeing someone suffer through this sickness has made me realize that I may at any time lose him and the people around me. Knowing that, I try to savor the moments I have with them.

Amy Winehouse is a reminder of what this disease does to people, but I think it is even a greater reminder of what each of us should be focusing on in our own lives.

Panther

EnoughisEnough7

Maybe ...

If everyone on this planet could see what most of us on this forum have lived through - helplessly watching from our front row seats, the terrifying transformation of someone we care about ... yet realizing how totally incapable we are to stop the addict’s progression towards destruction.

Learning how brutal, enduring, unyeilding and destructive addiction is to both the addict and those closest to them - then maybe someday there will be fewer people pointing fingers of judgement and prehaps instead offering much needed support and compassion to all those being transformed by this horrific affliction.

Hopefully, Amy Winehouse’s death will open the door to change for so many struggling addicts and open the door to understanding for those helplessly standing by watching the self destruction - before it is too late.

thequest

That's the thing, the substance abuser is hopefully trying to change their behavior and lifestyle. You should always try to support someone who is trying to change their ways for the better. I think too many people on both sides of th issue/s get wrapped up in the substance rather the rut or cycle of behavior they can't or do not want to change. Amy Winehouse checked out of rehab, her choice, she did not want to change.

I think many justifiably get upset as with any other endevour in life if you quit. People do not like quiters. People getted insulted when you refuse well accepted advice, help and/or support. Rehab should be about change which many sober people hate.

Amy Winehouse and others did not or do not want to change. Until they hit a bottom that does not kill them they will never see the hand writing on the wall: change & rehab.

If you can't lock them up you minus well help them change, they're out in the world with you and others.

lillamy

Love that quote. Another one for my collection.