Thumper

Cheating seems more tangible then addiction. I say that now because I was never cheated on but there was also a day, many years ago, when I said I would never put up with alcoholism either. HA.

Here is how 'stuck' I was. I used to wish my xah would cheat because then I felt like I could point and say 'See there....see That. That is unforgivable and I'm leaving." I could never figure out what to point at with the alcoholism. I couldn't get a grip on my reasons for wanting to leave, couldn't justify it. I'm so glad I have more clarity now, in hindsight, but I worry because it is scary to think of how I could live in such a cloud of confusion.

Summerpeach

There is some stat somethere that says 95% of addicts cheat. It's simple really, they need to get high at any cost and cheating is a high
My ex was sober when he cheated (though I am now sure he cheated on me when he was drinking) and NO, it's not about the booze, it's about the personality disorder and the weakness of character.
Everyone woman in my Al Anon had a cheating spouse!
In fact ,most people cheat............went to my gyno to get an std panel done (making sure my ex didn't give me some disease) and she told me she has 3 patients a week who come to her saying their men cheated and need some tests done.
Imagine the women that go to her NOT knowing their spouses cheated
Cheating is an epidemic now!

barb dwyer

Betrayal is such a painful thing.

I hope you find an Alanon group near you.
Computer sharing is great
and has saved countless minds here...

but 3-D f2f makes it 'real' in a big way.

I'm also glad to read that you're separated
and agree with anvil that tests are in order.

My second husband
turned out to be a child molester.

I know about betrayal.
and I know that this is a turning point for you.

I would like to add you to my prayers
and hope that a group is near for you.

The strength you will need
to make the changes permanent
the changes you know you are going to havef to follow through with...

... can be eased by the face to face support
(and thousands of cups of coffee after meetings)
that you can receive from fellow members of AlAnon.

Learn2Live

3betrayed, please be assured that you are not the only one who has suffered such horrors. I know someone who slept with everyone in their spouse's family, brothers and father included. Everyone has now found out that the men in the family were all having sex with this person over many years and it all revolved around drug and alcohol abuse and addiction. She is very sick and so are they. The only advice I have is to go to Al-Anon and to keep talking about what you have experienced. Sometimes I think that the first step in this process is really to see that we are not alone.

naive

if my alcoholic had a problem or emotional difficulty, he used alcohol to escape it. it was a quick way to ease the pain...drink to numb it.

as a non-alcoholic, i tend to do the opposite. when i have a problem, i try to take steps to face it. while i enjoy a drink, if i am having emotional difficulties, i tend to abstain because i want to be clear to deal with my emotions.

in relationship with my alcoholic, if a bump occurred in my life, i would oftentimes withdraw in order to deal with my emotions, as i didn't get any emotional support from him.

it was during these times that he cheated. his reason was that i was unavailable, he was a man, he had needs.

i think with my alcoholic, it was all about getting his needs met IMMEDIATELY, whether it be woman or drink. from what i've seen, this is pretty common with alcoholics...rather than face the difficulty together and work it thru, they just go ahead and take care of themselves with a quick fix.

of course, in all relationships, there are times when life hands us something to deal with. it happens to all of us. however, with my alcoholic, he was not there to support me or even comfort me...it was all about him and what he needed...it was not acceptable for me to take a few days or weeks to grieve a loss...it is in this way that he rationalized cheating on me behind my back or badgering me for sex when it was the last thing on my mind...

BeProactive

naive - you described my AH word for word, especially this part "it was all about getting his needs met IMMEDIATELY, whether it be woman or drink....rather than face the difficulty together and work it thru, they just go ahead and take care of themselves with a quick fix". It used to amaze me - this constant disregard for anything else but his own needs and the extent of his self centeredness and no empathy.

He also used to pressurise me for sex all the time and say he would go somewhere else if I refused. I used to say please go ahead - you are not going to force me that way. The past 3 months before he left, I absolutely refused to budge on my boundary to have no sex with him. I did give in previous to that and always used to end up feeling awful and angry and resentmentful after that. So glad that I don't have to deal with his bottomless neediness now.

johndelko408

Being the one who was the cheater it bothers me to read the posts about cheating spouses. Not because it reminds me of me but because we can be so heartless to do such things. I used to ask my wife for sex and when she wasn't in the mood I'd say fine. I never actually had an affair, one night stand in fact I never slept with another woman. I knew already that it would be meaningless because I there wasn't any love there, it would be purely sexual. If my wife didn't want to have sex I would jump in the shower and satisfy my desires myself. I was the attention seeker type cheater, I would go out and flirt with women to make myself feel desirable to the opposite sex. This doesn't make me unless guilty. I was still being unfaithful, I just wasn't pulling my junk out. This type of cheating I say is just as bad as having an affair. Why? Because I wasn't being emotionally faithful and I was leading the woman I was flirting with on. I was bringing my confidence up and at the end of the night when it came time to exchange numbers or whatever I would say "no I don't want your number and you can't have mine". At the time I really think I was doing anything wrong. My confidence would go up, and I'm sure it made the other woman feel like crap, brought her confidence and made her feel like less of a person. At the time I really didn't think I was being unfaithful either. But now when I look back upon it I can see that what I was doing was so wrong on many levels. The pain and suffering I feel now is what I deserve for my infidelity. For anyone else out there that is in a relationship and sees nothing wrong with flirting let me be the first to tell you it is. It's just as wrong as having an affair. We are not any less guilty just cause we didn't have a sexual relationship. It's emotional cheating. My wife told me a quote that made me realize this when I was trying to explain myself, when I was trying to say I didn't cheat. This is the quote, "flirting is cheating's ugly cousin". I was messing with the ugly cousin. To all the woman who have had A-hole spouses and boyfriends like myself, I can't fix anything by saying I'm sorry. The only thing I can do is to make sure I never act like the selfish ass that I was during my drinking and using. I don't ever want to hurt anyone again, especially a woman. A man can't bring life into this world on his own, it takes a woman and a man. My opinion on women is forever changed because of my past mistakes. My life is "strait edge" now, no drinking, no using and no promiscuity.

dollydo

I am always amazed at men, and their requirements in life. If you do not have sex with me, now, right now, I will just j@ck off and gratify myself. Where is the "we" in this self centered pleasure? My exabf was an phone sex addict, that gave him more pleasure than making love to me...it was selfish....it hurt....it was one of the reasons I tossed him out. Now he can play with himself all he wants..I do not care.

PrettySad

3betrayed, your post was so eerie to me because it is EXACTLY how I am feeling right now!!! Especially this line: "I can handle alcoholism; I can't handle a husband who could so artfully carry on such gross infidelity for two years." Wow. Talk about reading my mind! As my AH's behavior spiraled out of control, I discovered he was cheating on me with a girl he worked with for around 5 or 6 months (as far as I know since he lies). He would disappear for days and now I know he wasn't just binge drinking, he was on vacation with her. It all kind of blurs together, but I after I found out, he FINALLY hit "rock bottom" and checked into rehab. First, he went to detox, came out, relapsed, then checked back in for good. Rehab gave me some space too to just catch my breath. He has been sober two months now and seems like a different person. He is totally remorseful and eager to prove himself to me. He too explains that the infidelity was "not him," it was the addiction. The crazy thing is, there is a part of me that can agree with this - I know it wasn't him! I was the one crying every day wondering where the man I married went! This is key though. I believe that even if it was the addiction that was in control - you and I are still feeling the same hurt as other betrayed people feel whether addiction is a factor or not. For instance, if an addict kills somebody's kid in a drunk driving wreck - is the addiction in control? Well, maybe so, BUT, that kids is still dead, and everyone involved in that kid's life will experience the trauma, grief, and loss of such a tragedy no matter what the impetus of it is. I'm not trying to compare losing a child to getting cheated on, I'm just saying, I think we struggle partly because we are just so freaking hurt and in pain and there is a little bit of PRESSURE to forgive and accept the behavior because it is such a symptom of the disease. Does that make sense? I'm angry too, because it took me so long to figure out where my boundaries were with drug use and addiction, and just when I figured them out, now I have to figure out my boundaries with cheating and lying! So hard. The lying thing is awful. I feel like I can't even make decisions based on reality, because i don't know what reality is anymore. I do feel like I have to just figure out what I can and can't live with. It's hard because I don't even know everything he did to me. I just wanted to tell you that I am also looking for peace, and I really hope you find your peace and heal and get the life you deserve, whether it's with him or not.

Learn2Live

Slightly off-topic and a bit hijacky but just wanted to publicly acknowledge JohnDelko's Step 4 work I notice he has been doing by sharing such personal perspective on this and other threads. Way to go JohnDelko. Thanks for putting yourself out there and sharing.

Boscoboy2002

I am in the camp of "once a cheater, always a cheater" and I think alcohol just fuels the fire for cheaters.

When I first met my XAGF, I had no idea she was a drunk. I thought she was just really fun and wild. At the time I knew that she was dating other guys at the time (I was one) and that none of them were serious or exclusive. We'll long story short, she told me this 2 years into our relationship that at the time she was dating someone seriously for about a year and that I was "the other guy". I was so shocked. Looking back, I feel terrible for how I felt about the other guy and how I must have looked in his eyes. I had no idea.

Now, for the irony. Our relationship ended (after 6 years) because she had been texting and flirting with some other guy for months and I found out (found out too that she had been drinking behind my back) and we got into a fight (verbal only) and everything exploded and it was over ugly & fast. Now she is probably dating that new guy and everything has come full circle. It makes me wonder how many times she has done this sort of thing before (this cycle of infidelity). But, o well. He can have her and have her problems. I just remind myself that I deserve and can do much better than her.

I think, in her mind she wanted to and was ready to cheat, but I think the alcohol gave her the courage to do it.

Summerpeach

I think it's wonderful that you came to this realization and decided to come back to life.
My ex cheated, I left. Found out he's was/is a serial cheater.
He stopped drinking and replaced it with female attention
He's been sober 18 months and in step group (as far as I know since I don't talk to him), and highly doubt he will ever change his ways.
What was the "wake up call" for you to come to the realization above?
Do you think if you ever stopped recovery, you may fall back into this diseased way of living?

johndelko408

I'm not a promiscuous man. I was somewhat when I was a teen I cheated on one girlfriend. My dad and my old step dad both cheated on my mom and I saw how she was devistated, how she immersed herself into her disease (alcoholism). I promised myself I'd never do the same to my wife whenever I got married. I broke many promises and vows that I made to myself when I was in the thick of my disease. The thing was I never looked at flirting as being wrong or cheating. My wife saw different. When I eventually got caught flirting at the bars my wife left me. I was very hurt, devastated and still am. I love that woman with all my heart but I understand I hurt her and the damage is irreversible. Part of the reason, other than my little ones, that I quit drinking was because my wife left me. She and I are not together anymore. We've been separated since May of last year. I've been abstinent from sex since then, other than with myself. Sorry if that grosses you out. Don't get me wrong there are women I find attractive, I just don't have the desire to be with them. Like I said, I'm still in love with my wife. I can't blame what I did completely on alcohol because I made the choice to drink and I chose to go to the bars knowing very well I'm a blackout drinker. She told me I had a problem when we were still together, but I didn't think so. She wanted me to get help, but I didn't want to. She made every effort to make our marriage work, but I was so sick that I didn't know that there was a problem and that she was hurting. So if you really want to know what my wake-up call was. My wife left me, I don't get to kiss my kids goodnight anymore, I don't get to tuck them in bed anymore, and I don't get to roll over and give my wife a kiss in the morning anymore. I ruined my marriage and cheated on my wife, two things I vowed to never do. Simply speaking, I became my father, another thing I promised never to do. My life isn't over, I will always be my kids father. I don't drink or use cause I don't want my kids to not want me in their lives. That is a pain I just could not live with. Hope this brings some light to you.

Part of the 4th step is to make a sexual inventory, that also helped me to realize that what I was doing was wrong. Even though I wasn't physically sleeping around, its as my mind was sleeping around since I was out flirting.

Summerpeach

John, thank you for sharing and being so open.
My ex became his cheating father. Something he swore he would never be as well. His ex wife also cheated on him, but he felt entitled to do it to me. He also thought it was just "flirting" and truly thought what he did to me was not cheating.
Though losing me wasn't his wake up call since he was on the "hunt" as soon as I left and seemed to adjust to losing me very quickly.
I don't know you, but I have to say I am proud you fought to change your life.
So few people have that courage to take a long/hard look at themselves.
Losing my ex was devasating to me, but like you said "life is not over"
Please keep sharing

johndelko408

The sad part about it was that after she left me I felt as if my life was over. I sort of gave up on life and immersed myself into heavy drinking and using. I was more or less suicidal and wanted to go out with a bang, and I don't mean from a gun. What got me to sober up was that on this past new years I woke up in the guest room of one of my friends house who lives about 30-40 miles away from where I live. I had no idea how I got there. Apparently I spent $100 on a cab ride to get over there and bought an 8ball of blow and consumed most of it in a period of 3 hours, the rest I shared with my buddys. I had drank myself into a blackout and was very lucky to be alive. It was a wake up call to me. It made me realize that the path of self destruction I was on was not fair to my kids. I was being very selfish as not to hang on for them. Also I thought if there ever was a chance of my wife taking me back there would be no way in hell she would with the way I was living. My kids are everything to me, the reason for my sobriety. They need there father and I can't be so selfish as to live for me and only me. I live my life for them. I'm very sorry that your husband felt that he was entitled to cheat on you. The girlfriend I mentioned I cheated on, well it was for the same reason. The girlfriend I had previous to her cheated on me. Infidelity hurts the one who gets cheated on. But in the long run, its the cheater who is the one that hurts.

Summerpeach

I believe he also started steps cause of his kids.
Glad you finally hit your bottom so your kids could have their Dad. Keep your wonderful sobriety going.
There is a saying that goes "I hurt myself by hurting you", but addicts are already in so much pain, their need to hurt themselves takes all their loved ones down with them.
You saw it, you changed it, and now you're on the road my friend. Keep up the good work

PrettySad

I really appreciate everyone sharing. It's great to hear from so many different people. I posted a rather long reply earlier, so I'll keep it short, but I read part of a book called When Your Lover is a Liar and it helped me a lot, even just reading part of it. It focuses in on that specific experience of being lied to (whether it's infidelity or addiction etc.) and gives tools for how to sort through your feelings and crazy thoughts. I'm reading that and Surviving the Affair. So far so good! God bless everyone here.

transformyself

I haven't read the other posts so if this is replicated, i'm sorry.

This site is a god-send for codies and alcoholics. My personal experience is that this site
SurvivingInfidelity.com - Support for those affected by Infidelity
helped me the most as it specifically educates and supports folks who have been in your/our situation.

Now if we could combine the two, that would be a match made in heaven to fight off the demons of hell!

Good luck, I will strongly suggest you visit that site and get some support for your triggers and reconciliation. There are two forums , Reconciliation and General, that will help the most.

NoelleR

Going back to the OP.....: "...Will someone please help me understand whether or not infidelity can be blamed on alcohol?..."

Folks seem to want to give alcohol (and other drugs) way too much power. It's been said by some on this thread, and on other threads, but I feel it cannot be said enough. Alcohol, and other drugs, canNOT cause bad behavior.

Think of alcohol (and other drugs) along the same lines as hypnosis, even though alcohol (and other drugs) may lower one's inhibitions, it canNOT cause any behavior atall, not even bad behavior.

.....and the ever popular line, put forth by oh so many drunks (past, present, and future)....."I'd never have done that if I hadn't been drunk," or (I'd never have done that if I'd been sober," well, although most folks would like to believe that, and obviously, most (if not all) drunks would like to offer this as a reason for their bad behavior, it's total BS.

In other words, a person cheats, alcohol or no alcohol, drunk or sober.


(o:

3betrayed

I want to thank everyone for the great gift of your insight. You already know how helpful you've been or you'd not have taken the time to post. Thank you for your generous help.

JohnDelko- your posts have helped me tremendously. I believe your sincerity. I see my husband in your posts, so why not believe he, too, is sincere?

My husband is sober now, working his program, meeting with his counselor, taking his antidepressant, and taking care of his health. He has become an entirely different person in these four months. He is extremely remorseful and proves this in his actions, his demeanor and his words. He has become an attentive and present lover both outside of the bedroom and inside of the bedroom, in spite of his ED. He consistantly says and does things that make me believe what he's been saying: Had he not been drinking, the infidelity would not have occurred.

That has been hard for me to grasp because the infidelity was so severe, so progressive and so damned painful and personal. However, I am slowly awakening to the fact that the alcoholic's brain is perpetually "wet", and is, therefore, not firing on all six cylinders.

My husband's brain sat in a bath of alcohol 24/7. Because I'd only see him have a few beers each night (he was hitting vodka he'd hidden around the house) I had no idea he was always bombed. I blamed his declining heath on his cancer/surgery, an excuse he was only too happy to nurture.

I've learned that he started out pretty high functioning, and now see how the alcoholism progressed as I witnessed his health and his temperment decline and him morph into someone I was thinking I couldn't stay with much longer.

He's confessed to still being drunk when he'd leave for work in the morning. He'd start to feel sobered up in the afternoon, and felt ready to drink by time he pulled in the garage at the end of the day. Before he'd come in from the garage, he'd hit the bottle of vodka he'd hidden in the garage, come in the house and grab a beer. And away he went.

With my **** grandson's mother living under our roof, and me in bed for the night, his infidelity began and progressed. Had he not been drinking, I don't believe her come ons would have been reciprocated. The night-after-night infidelity with her, coupled with his night-after-night alcohol brain baths, furthered his guilt and sense of self worth into, "well, look what I've done. I'm lost now, so why turn back", and the cycle continued and progressed into him getting paid prostitutes before D-day finally came.

Since D-day, he had taken advantage of the opportunity to pull himself out of the pit, and he's done a good job. I continue to be amazed and surprised. Therefore, I believe, at least for my own situation, that no, alcohol can't cause infidelity, but it's affects on the drinker's diminished brain, absolutely CAN create the foundation for self-defeating, self-destructive, self-hateful behaviors, such as infidelity.

I know mine may be the exception, so I'm very interested in hearing from those of you, who like me, are in the trenches.

JohnDelko: I hope and pray for your continued recovery, and my heart hopes you will have the chance to be a good husband to your wife again. Regardless, read Jeremiah 29:11- my mantra, and make it your own heart-felt knowledge of your future.