ravenseyez

Hello - my first post - my first request for help of any kind, after 24 years of marriage to my alcoholic. I know that I need help and that I cannot change him. My problem is that it seems that alanon and AA rely so heavily on turning over your problems to God. I'm not an atheist and certainly don't want to start a religious debate, but I don't have a very strong faith at all and would have my doubts about getting what I need from the program if that's what it is based on. (My alcoholic, ironically, is very religious). His short stint in AA (over now and even worse than before) made me hope again, and I would hate to throw away such a long term relationship but then I am just 43....

EmotionalMeg

Hello raven,
So glad that you found us here.

I am tellin ya that it was EXACTLY the same for me.
I have NEVER practised a faith of ANY kind, especially of any particular denomination.
I contemplated Alanon a few times here and there, but the mere mention of the word "God" made me turn away; I did not believe in a God, and I wasn't going to pretend that I did.

They say that at A has to reach a point of surrender in their disease; Perhaps they have reached a "bottom". It's almost as if they have reached a standstill... They can't go back to their addiction because it is killing them, yet they are sure they will die without it. They still have the desire to live, so they reach out for help. Many of them, religious or not, reach out to AA.

And in many ways it was similar for me.
I am not an Addict or an Alcoholic, but I DID reach a bottom.
I came to a point where I was completely worn to the bone; emotionally exhausted and feeling helpless. I tried EVERYTHING in the book to "help" my husband get sober. I also was a huge enabler by covering up for his mistakes, hiding his disease, creating a picture perfect life for us on the outside. And just so I didn't bear the weight of these actions, I got very ANGRY with him, I threatened him and I made sure he took all the blame. None of this worked. I was spent, I was angry and HE was still drinking.

It dawned on me that what I was doing WASN'T helping anyone... and I became willing to try anything.

And I forced myself to go to meetings, even tho there I sat, cringing at the mention of "God" or "Higher Power". Eventually, slowly, I opened up my heart. I realized that while you don't have to believe in a God, or practice a particular faith, it is important to our souls to allow ourselves to be spiritual; in ANY way. It gives us strength and freedom to be able to turn things over... to NOT have to worry and fret over the things which we cannot control. And to believe, in whatever way we choose, that someone, something, some force of life IS taking care of us; it kind of gives us an ally, and a new "friend".
Even if you can open your heart up enough to BELIEVE that there IS a healthier way to live your life, then you can begin your recovery in Alanon.

And as I learned - and I am HUGE on wanting to find a "quick fix" - that it all comes in time. Everything that you need to learn, all the "gifts" will come in time.

WHEW!!
How do I get so carried away?

I am glad you found us, and I hope you'll stick around
Take care
Meg

JT

Welcome,

I was like Meg in that I did not have faith of any kind and praying was out of the question. I was broken when I began to go to Al Anon and I was willing to do anything...even believe a little.

As time passed small things would happen that in the past I would dismiss but today I see as my Higher Power working in my life. When I let go of my control and learned to be an observer I could not help but notice a plan of some sort.

I was a very hesitant newcomer...talk of cults and God made me hold back. Al Anon is not a religious program...I began by simply learning to have faith that things would happen the way they were suppose to if I let go of my control. I have learned to listen to my intuition...to me that is my higher power whispering to me.

My faith today sometimes suprises me...it is a soft place that I am grateful to Al Anon for.

Hugs,
JT

Vampgirl

Hi There,
Welcome,you are in the right place! Al-anon is for everyone who's life has been touched by the alcoholism of a family member,friend,partner etc....This means if you are of any religious affiliation,or of none.
There are real miracles in al-anon,keep coming back.
Take care,Elsa

DancingHeart

I have a question about this also, but related to my A. I don't think my A would ever attend AA because the mere mention of God would send him running in the other direction. He does not have a bit of faith, in fact quite the opposite. He will bad mouth church goers and does not believe in a HP. If he ever gets to the point where he considers help, I don't know where he would go.

DH

Daffodil

Raven , Vampgirl, and DancingHeart,
WELCOME!
Oh boy does this ever take me back in time, I have always been religious, half my family of orgin went to church 7-9 times a week ....anyway...back then the God of my understanding was just waiting for me to step out of line one to many times and I'd then get zapped...but I prayed for my family to stop the drinking...the fighting, the ect.ect, you all know the insanity that goes with it...I would go to church and tell this God exactly what I wanted Him to do, when I wanted it done, and how to do it....I also NAGGED Him constantly (even though I HATE being nagged) I thought I was praying..

Today, Al-Anon had helped me come to believe in a new God and I have found a wonderful spiritual way of living life...ONE that does not included trying to control my H.P., the universe, or other people, places, or things.

In Al-Anon I was taught that Praying is me talking to my Higher Power, whom I choose to call God and meditation is MY LISTENING to that HIgher Power...I am still relegious but my spiritual growth is first because without that I have no concious contact with my H.P. (Someday maybe I'll write a book all about my attempts to learn to listen....) I know that the word God has been used by many to avoid going to 12 Step meetings, I also know that my H.P. talks to all His kids at at once, some just choose not to hear Him "today".....as for tomorrow I leave that totally up to my H.P.

I don't care today what you choose to call your God, all I care about is whether or not you can accept that there is a Higher Power that can and will work in your life if you let Him.

Here's my spiritual truth:

There is a God
and I am not it....

Sorry this is so long and God Bless!

Daffodil

Here's a one liner I just hought of for all of you;

A Coincidence is nothing more than

God working a mircle anonymously!

Have you had and coincidences in your life...Something to think about isn't it.

God Bless.

EmotionalMeg

Hi DancingHeart,
I truly believe that when an A is READY, and seeks help, they are doing it for THEMSELVES, and more often than not, because they are fighting for their life...
I am betting that if an A "blows off" AA because the big book mentions God, they are NOT ready for help, and it is an excuse.

We learn that Alanon (and AA etc) is NOT a religious program at all - it is SPIRITUAL. You can use the program no matter what faith you are, and even if you consider yourself agnostic. It simply takes a willingness to believe that YOU are not in control, and a desire to find a happier and healthier way...
No one can deny that it WORKS.

Take care
Meg

ravenseyez

All of your replies and comments are deeply appreciated and welcomed (especially Meg). However, they leave me somewhat frustrated. It still seems that the only way this can help is if I "open my heart and mind" to God or a Higher Power or spirituality of some kind. I would really like to have that kind of faith but it's just not in me. I believe in the morality of Christianity and other faiths, do unto others and the wisdom of the Bible, but frankly I just think that when it's over, it's over...lights out, power off. Not what I'd like, just what I think is more real than the existance of a Higher Power of any kind. If I go to an Alanon meeting and that's what I hear, to me (and I'm speaking just of me, because I know it can help others!) it will seem like a fairy tale and leave me even more hopeless than I am now.
Again, I don't want to start a religious debate and the fact that you have bothered to read and reply to my post is very, very meaningful to me. Thank you and I will continue to read and not give up yet.

EmotionalMeg

You know what?
Sometimes just Being here helps... No one has any agenda for you - come and go as u like
Meg

Petunia

Ravenseyez,

I can honestly say that I understand your frustration. I am new to Al-Anon and was in a similar position in that I didn't have any significant level of faith. I have been seeing a counselor for several years before ever starting to attend my Al-Anon meetings (started a few months back).

During my counseling sessions my therapist would ask me from time to time what I thought about faith and I would ALWAYS avoid discussing it b/c it was not the right time for me. However I did know that I believed in something (which based on your Agnostic reference leads me to believe you have something there as well). I found myself drawn to Eastern religions which seem to be based more on how you live your life than punishment for what you have done. There is a sense of optomism that you have more than one chance to get it right without pissing (sorry if this offends) off the Power.

When I first started attending Al-Anon meetings I was troubles b/c I didn't have a specific Higher Power (HP) to speak of. And I don't know that I do now either but I do know that there is SOME HP that has helped me in many amazing ways over the past few months. I don't have a name or a picture in my head - I just trust that if I let go it is ok to do so.

"Giving it up" is a slogan that doesn't have to be to some specific HP - for now. The ability to let the thought that someone will help us and cares for us is the tangible (if that is logical) outcome. I gave up on my faith a long time ago - in part due to unhealthy relationships but find that I get something out of acknowledging that there is something out there much greater and more complex than me.

If you let the thought that for you there might be an HP who will help if you let them, there is a great potential of letting your mind rest and be some much needed down time when the "noise" of life stops buzzing - even if only for a minutes.

I hope this helps even a small bit.

Petunia

Vampgirl

What I was told when I was new to al-anon is that your higher power can be anything other than another person...It can be the ocean,it can be a sunset,it can be nature it can be whatever you choose it to be. It just has to be something that you can believe in enough to let go and to trust in...I know that I am not wording this well,but if you think of it as being willing to believe in a higher power to free yourself of the "control"....That higher power just has to be the one of YOUR understanding,that's one of the beauties of this program.
I hope you keep coming back,there is so much to gain here,a beautiful life is out there for you.
Take care,Elsa

EmotionalMeg

Hi again,
Vampgirl brought up a good point; you don't have to have an HP... but you do have to realize that "turning it over" or "giving it up" is an essential part of Alanon.

Is it possible that you have a sense of the kenetic energy in the universe? The force of mother nature; the wind, the tides... This is a great place to start because it is REAL, and you can "touch" it. Even think of the "life cycles" on earth... from the trees and plants, to the creatures, and to us. We all create an energy, a force that impresses itself on our world. This can certainly be YOUR sense of "spirituality"... Only thing is, YOU have to be WILLING to give the program itself a good honest effort. If you're not ready, than thats OK too . Remember, the Alanon program doesn't offer up guaruntees or step-by-step instructions for a happier life. The health, serenity and happiness only comes when YOU are willing, to really and truly "work" it.

Don't rush it girl... hang out here with us for awhile if you like. We'll take you, no matter what you believe.

Take care
Meg

Mogqua

While most of us find a God of Our own understanding, it is important to note that not all do. Some remain agnostic or gnostic for many years and still recover. God isn't even mentioned until the third step. There is a reason for this. You may want to try reading a couple of the A.A. Books such as "Came to Believe" or the fourth chapter of the Alcoholics Anonymous "Big Book". Until then just rely on the fact that you are here and that means you believe in something greater than yourself to aid in your recovery. Welcome to the path.

ravenseyez

Hi all. Pretty down this morning. Really feel hopeless. I just can't turn it all over to something I just feel is not there. I feel like I have wasted my entire life, and now it is just a day by day thing untill it all clicks off. I don't feel suicidal, just biding my time. Don't see any options. I fake happiness in front of my kids and at work but usually that gets screwed up by my A too. I've read some of the alanon readings which seem to make me feel worse. Is that normal at first? The one about showing my best side to my A at all times almost made me laugh. When he's drunk and making my kids miserable to the point where they don't ever want to come home, I'm supposed to be all smiley? Sorry, I'm venting and hurt and angry and don't mean to take it out on you all. I'm rambling so I'll just stop.

12stepmarce

Agnostics are welcome in Al-Anon. One thing we emphasize is "Take what you liked and leave the rest." The steps are suggested....but not required. This is a program that has no leaders, no rules, no police, no real organization, except that which we all agree might work.....just for today.

So you should feel at ease, unless it bothers you to be around someone who may have found a power greater than themselves and shares about that. I assume you don't mind if others believe differently from you.

Al-Anon is a wonderful program where you can meet others who love alcoholics. You can learn a lot about this illness and great ways to cope better for yourself. And....you can meet people who will understand how you feel.......because they have been in your shoes.

That alone is worth checking out.

DocSea

(This version of the steps is an attempt to explain the spirituality of AA without resorting to belief in the existence of God or a Higher Power or taking a moral stance. It originated in Cleveland.You may find them useful as "training wheels" while you develop your own spirituality)

An Agnostic Version of the Twelve Steps (Cleveland)

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol-that attempts to control our drinking were futile and that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that even though we could not fix our problem by ourselves, circumstances and forces beyond our personal control could help restore us to sanity and balance.

3. Made a decision to accept things that were outside our control, especially what already is and to do the best with it.

4. Made a searching examination and a fearless inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to ourselves with total openness and to another human being, the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Became willing to let go of our behaviors and personality traits that could be construed as defects and were creating problems.

7. With humility we acknowledged that we had these shortcomings and with openness we sought to eliminate these shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through contemplation and meditation to improve self-awareness and adopted a spiritual approach to life as our primary purpose.

12. Having had a profound change in consciousness as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

kiki5711

I'm not religious either and it annoyed the hell out of me when I was in rehab and the jesus thumpers would do their halleluah stuff, but I learned to just ignore it. In fact there was this man there walking around with his rosary in his hand and if anyone said anything bad about religion or god, he'd go apeshit and look you down like he wanted to step on you. Well, I realized that his religion and holding that rosary may be his only way of dealing with his addiction and hardships in life, so I just over looked that part of him and start making friends with him and acknowledging his "love" for his god. Hey, I figured, whatever gets you through the night and another day of sober life, that's fine with me, just don't shove it on me.

I don't like religion. I think it divides people and it's just another form of fantasy, but hey, that's another subject.

Eight Ball

Hi Ravenseyez and welcome,

It sounds like you have come to the right place and your story sounds sooo similar to mine. Me 44, Alcoholic husband for 22 years (met at 15ys) recently had a very brief stint at sobrietry and is now worse than ever, taken up smoking and surfing for porn and two children, neither living at home as the youngest (19yrs) moved out recently due to her dads bullying behaviour towards her and the feeling of treading on eggshells when she came home. I feel physically and mentally sick right now and like running away from my life but really looking forward to my night out at Al-anon tommorrow evening, when I get some time for me and I hope that you will eventually feel this way.

I can tell you that I am an athiest and really struggled with the god stuff at Al-anon. Someone else at my Al-anon group who struggled with it too said that she thinks of God as her 'good orderly direction'. For me its like that spooky coincidental thing that happens that makes your hairs stand up on your back. You know when you are thinking about something and it happens or similar. I personally have embraced my Al-anon group as they are all so warm and welcoming, no-one rams religion down your throat and some offer some really great advice via their own 'sharing'. For me its a night out from the house, atmosphere and madness and time spent with some warm and lovely people. I said to someone on SR recently, that you go to listen to what others have gone through, others in similar positions to yourself, you listen and everynow or again you hear a real snippet of information that you need at that time. Sometimes thats the spooky coincidental thing working, when someone will say something about a problem that I am going through right at that time and I get my answer or at least some 'good orderly direction' on how to deal with the problem.

Why dont you put off going to Al-anon for the time being as it wont help if you are not in the right frame of mind but continue to read and post on this website, at least until you have had chance to cool down. You will find lots of helpful threads, stickies and SR members on this site and we all empathise as we know exactly how you feel.

I cant say that I have read that particular pearl of wisdom before but I know there will be something written that you can relate to. My personal favourite is Merry-Go-Round which is an Al-anon publication and a sticky up the top somewhere. Just keep reading.

CatsPajamas

WOW what a blast from the past! If you look at the original post it was written nearly 7 years ago! It's fun to see some names from my early days of being a member here- some I'd forgotten about and some I will never forget for how much their wisdom helped me to grow.

I find it particularly interesting that the problems we were discussing are the same today as they were 7 years ago, and probably 20 years before that. It confirms my belief that there are no quick and easy fixes - if there were, we'd have heard about them on Oprah or CNN by now, don't you think?

One of the many things I love about SR is that it encourages people to find their own solutions to their struggles. Many of us are active members in 12-step groups and/or churches or other organizations. Others find help via counselors, some by reading from outstanding self help books. Our members come from all walks of life -rich, poor, young, old, celebrity,homeless, butcher, baker and candlestick maker.

We post questions and challenges, and occasionally we get into heated debates.

Ultimately, we each find our unique path to recovery. Rather than tear down another's belief systems, we are encouraged to lift each other up and offer our own experience, strength and hope.

I'm sorry for what brings people here, but my life is often richer for having walked along the path with them.

Hugs and love,
Cats