Couples Therapy

[Lavash]

I went with my BF to one session of couples therapy back in Sept. Didn't work out so well. But we've now decided to go back again. We said we would at least to commit to 4 session, then assess.
Our first appointment is next week.

I've been to therapy many times, but always alone, so I'm a pro at that, but couples therapy, I have no clue about.

What was your couples therapy experience like?

Do's and Do not's?

[intheknow]

We have gone to couples therapy 5x or more. It was always very good for me, but then again I was the only participant in it, and the only one that followed thru afterwards.

The last time we went, I found out that my husband was addicted to cocaine early in our relationship. I had no idea. I sat there, unable to even breathe. This person sitting next to me that I had known for 20 years just dropped a bomb on me.

I knew early in our relationship that he had issues with alcohol, and with pot. Cocaine was a deal breaker then, and would still be now.

Do's and Do Not's...from my point of view:

Do be honest. Brutally honest. This is the one time in your life that it counts more than ever.

Don't put too much emphasis on the other person. In order for the relationship to work you both have to want it, you both have to be willing to work at it, and you both have to be happy.

Do follow up with the suggestions the counselor makes. Even if the other person doesn't follow up.

Do have an open mind to change. If change was easy we would do it everyday, right?

Do listen to what the other person is saying - verbally and non-verbally. If I had done this, I would have only been to counseling once or twice. And I would have realized that he was not committed to doing anything different in his life.

I'm sure I will think of more things later, this is just a start...

[GiveLove]

I have experienced couples therapy and can't come up with a better list than intheknow (great name, by the way )

Look closely at whether you are both equally invested in the outcome. Be brutally honest with yourself about what you learn about your relationship, and whether it's right for your life and your future.

I found that doing couples counseling in tandem with personal therapy was much more productive. There were things I was bringing to the party that I wasn't aware of, or wasn't willing to admit to myself.

[Still Waters]

Honesty is vital for therapy, and in my situation my AH isn't capable of being honest. So it was useless.

[Chrysalis123]

My experience with couples therapy was a disaster for 2 reasons. The first was XAH was not honest with the therapist. The second was the counselor was not familiar with addictions and gave horrible advice. At the time I did not know any better and kept going. All through it my gut was telling me this therapist was wrong and I was getting ganged up on. And... I was getting ganged up on by a lying alcoholic and the therapist he conned!

[CatsPajamas]

My exH was a controling, conniving and manipulating person. He agreed to go to counseling, but was quickly able to manipulate and control the counselor. It was really quite amazing.

The remarkable thing is that I saw it, I told her it was happening, and one day she had an "aha" moment and saw it. She called him on it.... ultimately she was the one who helped me get out of that dangerous situation.

As others have said, this therapy can be incredibly beneficial to couples, provided that they both have good and pure motives going in. If each is only going to make the other do (or stop doing) something, it probably won't have a good outcome.

[Ago]

In addition to the most excellent advice listed above, what I found most important was listening and hearing what the therapist told me, if she told me something I didn't like, and didn't want to hear, it was most likely it wasn't her assessment of the situation that was wrong.

That is the biggest failing I have seen from couples counseling and therapy from watching sponsees over the years is one of the couple stomping out saying "she doesn't know who I am, she can't know my character just from an hour a week" when in fact alcoholism is a disease according to the American Medical Association, so I have always thought of my codependency as a "disease" in it's "an unhealthy condition of mind or body with certain recognizable signs and symptoms" which most certainly describes alcoholism and codependency to me.

It's like not all alcoholics are "cookie cutter" but their behaviors certainly are, thus so are our coping mechanisms, so it behooved me to listen to what she had to say in order to heal myself.

The first time I went I was newly sober, and the therapist made a list of stuff to do that I found incredibly threatening, but being committed to recovery I did them, the list was:

Separate our finances
Drive our own vehicles
I had to move into my own place (I had moved in with her)

I was terrified, it turned out that although the list looked terrifying to me, what the therapist was doing was removing the ways in which my GF controlled me and monitered my behavior, where I was, what I was doing, so although it looked as if the therapist was "harming" me, she was in fact doing me a huge favor by giving me my freedom


I love couples counseling and have reaped untold wonderful rewards from it, I got so many great tools from it, I trust my therapist implicitly

[Jazzman]

During my first marriage we went to regular couples counseling on several different occasions with different counselors. Learned some great communications skills like active listening. I found that counselors are like everyone else in that there are some good ones and some not so good ones.

Finding as counselor you are both happy with can be challenging. But I would also share that this was with my first wife were there were no addictions and we both wanted to improve our marriage.

Every counselor I have met in conjunction with my second marriage would not consider couples counseling to be an option until the addiction was handled separately and successfully. We did go to her counselor once as a couple but that was a disaster. M stormed out and the counselor recommended I attend alanon meetings.

I would suggest a counselor with experience in addictions, anyone else is just going to be billing you.

Just sharing my experience.

[Lavash]

Thanks so much everyone. This is all great info.

Intheknow, that is a great list, thanks for that.

Everyone who knows me, knows I am very honest, almost to a fault.
My BF and I talked about CT for a while but never followed through.

Then during the summer, my gut was telling me he was lying to me and I thought he may be cheating. Never in the 4 yrs together did I mistrust him until this gut feeling!
For the first time, I snooped and found a few things. No proof of cheating but he was emailing and FB other women.

This is when I realized it was therapy or I was gone. I didn't tell him I snooped and saved the info for our 1st therapy session.

I told the therapist I felt he was being dishonest and maybe cheating. She asked him, he said "ABSOLUTLY NOT, It's all in her head"
I said "is my gut lying and am I just making this up and do you swear on your daughter's head". (he never swears on her head) and he sat up, looked me right in my face and said "I swear, and yes it's all in your head"

This is when I told him I got into his email and FB (I have to admit, it was a MASTERCARD moment to see his face). He said "oh that, please that's nothing"
Played it down and then of course, our time was up with the therapist. Doh!
The therapist was like "Oh no, time is up and I ask that you don't talk about this when you leave here, but that's going to be impossible"
She was right, what a fight we had after that and said he didn't want to go back.

I will say this, he's not going because he wants to get well, he's going cause he's worried I'll leave. And I have little faith he can/wants to be honest.

He's been in AA over a year and not even talked in a meeting. He has a HUGE fear of communication but when we went to that one session, he seemed to open up to her and he talked more than I did (and that is a tough thing to beat...haha) Not sure if it was nerves or him wanting to find answers!

In any case, I'm going. Not sure if I'm going for the right reasons, but I can honestly say, not even sure what the right reasons are right now

Like I said in another thread, this man, this relatonship and all this new recovery has me terribly confused!

Who knows, maybe with 3rd party input, he'll see a few things.

[Lavash]

Originally Posted by Jazzman

During my first marriage we went to regular couples counseling on several different occasions with different counselors. Learned some great communications skills like active listening. I found that counselors are like everyone else in that there are some good ones and some not so good ones.

Finding as counselor you are both happy with can be challenging. But I would also share that this was with my first wife were there were no addictions and we both wanted to improve our marriage.

Every counselor I have met in conjunction with my second marriage would not consider couples counseling to be an option until the addiction was handled separately and successfully. We did go to her counselor once as a couple but that was a disaster. M stormed out and the counselor recommended I attend alanon meetings.

Just sharing my experience.

This is very interesting, because a while back, I gave my BF the email of a very well known addiction therapist in our city who deals only in addictions and she told him to go to AA and then she would see him.
I emailed her also to say maybe we can come for couples therapy and she said she would not see "US" unless we got help on our own.

Not sure I agree with this, unless of course the partnership is super abusive or the addict is seriously using.

In any case, he joined AA and I went to 1 on 1 therapy for months and months. The dynamics were still off so I emailed this therapist again and asked if we could come to couples therapy and she would not see us a couple.

I get two people needing to work on their stuff alone, but when is it ok for them to work on them together?

So your 1st marriage never worked, even with therapy?

[Lavash]

Originally Posted by Ago

In addition to the most excellent advice listed above, what I found most important was listening and hearing what the therapist told me, if she told me something I didn't like, and didn't want to hear, it was most likely it wasn't her assessment of the situation that was wrong.

That is the biggest failing I have seen from couples counseling and therapy from watching sponsees over the years is one of the couple stomping out saying "she doesn't know who I am, she can't know my character just from an hour a week" when in fact alcoholism is a disease according to the American Medical Association, so I have always thought of my codependency as a "disease" in it's "an unhealthy condition of mind or body with certain recognizable signs and symptoms" which most certainly describes alcoholism and codependency to me.

It's like not all alcoholics are "cookie cutter" but their behaviors certainly are, thus so are our coping mechanisms, so it behooved me to listen to what she had to say in order to heal myself.

The first time I went I was newly sober, and the therapist made a list of stuff to do that I found incredibly threatening, but being committed to recovery I did them, the list was:

Separate our finances
Drive our own vehicles
I had to move into my own place (I had moved in with her)

I was terrified, it turned out that although the list looked terrifying to me, what the therapist was doing was removing the ways in which my GF controlled me and monitered my behavior, where I was, what I was doing, so although it looked as if the therapist was "harming" me, she was in fact doing me a huge favor by giving me my freedom


I love couples counseling and have reaped untold wonderful rewards from it, I got so many great tools from it, I trust my therapist implicitly

What I bolded out is what I'm pretty sure is going to happen.
In that one and only session, the dr told me my critical attitude was very damaging, I humbly agreed. She sort of read me a mini riot act, and I agreed with her.

When she got to him and said "Talking to other women outside a relationship and being emotionally abusive is a terrorist attack on the person and the love they have for you"

He said NOTTA word, but when he left he said "she doesn't know the whole story"

Of course she doesn't, but she sees "fools" like us all the time.

I'm happy you had a good experience, it gives me some hope mine won't be a total disaster.

I'm good though since I live alone, have my own car and my own mulla....hahaha.

It is all very scary though

thanks for sharing

[Ago]

Who knows, maybe with 3rd party input, he'll see a few things.

Personally I had to go to therapy with the intention to fix myself, not with the intention to fix her, which falls under the three C's, in all the years of watching sponsees go to therapy I have never seen therapy succeed when the goal was to "fix" the partner

we didn't cause it
we can't cure it
we can't control it

It was me that got to "see" a few things, and they weren't comfortable, but in order for the therapy to succeed i had to listen for me, not for her

[Jazzman]

Originally Posted by Lavash

I get two people needing to work on their stuff alone, but when is it ok for them to work on them together?

I can't tell you clinically why therapists take that position, but I can tell you that the reason M was in therepay was becasue of her addiction and all the associated side effects.. depression, difficulty at work, relationships, yada yada, I'm sure you know the drill. M thought that a good therapist and the right dose of ADs would be her ticket to drinking in moderation... (right!)

So lemme ask you, you think someone in that kinda shape is ready to present them self as a worthy partner to another?

Originally Posted by Lavash

So your 1st marriage never worked, even with therapy?

Lavash, nothing would have saved my first marriage! Not that we didn't try mind you, for thirteen years we tried. But that's for a completely different forum all together.

[Lavash]

Originally Posted by Jazzman

I can't tell you clinically why therapists take that position, but I can tell you that the reason M was in therepay was becasue of her addiction and all the associated side effects.. depression, difficulty at work, relationships, yada yada, I'm sure you know the drill. M thought that a good therapist and the right dose of ADs would be her ticket to drinking in moderation... (right!)

So lemme ask you, you think someone in that kinda shape is ready to present them self as a worthy partner to another?

Lavash, nothing would have saved my first marriage! Not that we didn't try mind you, for thirteen years we tried. But that's for a completely different forum all together.

You're right, an active user with depression does not make for a good CT partner.


Sorry about your first marriage, it's so tough

[Lavash]

Originally Posted by Ago

Personally I had to go to therapy with the intention to fix myself, not with the intention to fix her, which falls under the three C's, in all the years of watching sponsees go to therapy I have never seen therapy succeed when the goal was to "fix" the partner

we didn't cause it
we can't cure it
we can't control it

It was me that got to "see" a few things, and they weren't comfortable, but in order for the therapy to succeed i had to listen for me, not for her

I'm going for me, for him and for us. Al Anon is for me, this will be for us.
If it doesn't work, I won't walk away knowing that I didn't give it one great try

[Jazzman]

Originally Posted by Lavash

Sorry about your first marriage, it's so tough

Oh that's OK. That was back in 96 but to be honest it was the right thing to do. We weren't right for each other and it became very apparent after enough time removed from that situation that my objectivity and clarity of thought returned. I have two great sons and I returned to my old happy-go-lucky self that I had missed for so long

[Still Waters]

Originally Posted by Jazzman

During my first marriage we went to regular couples counseling on several different occasions with different counselors. Learned some great communications skills like active listening. I found that counselors are like everyone else in that there are some good ones and some not so good ones.

Finding as counselor you are both happy with can be challenging. But I would also share that this was with my first wife were there were no addictions and we both wanted to improve our marriage.

Every counselor I have met in conjunction with my second marriage would not consider couples counseling to be an option until the addiction was handled separately and successfully. We did go to her counselor once as a couple but that was a disaster. M stormed out and the counselor recommended I attend alanon meetings.

I would suggest a counselor with experience in addictions, anyone else is just going to be billing you.

Just sharing my experience.

Yes. But when is the addiction issue handled? When the A lies about going to meetings or says they have it handled themselves? LOL.

I too was going separately, and when my AH insisted that I either go to marriage counseling with him or get out, I went. Mind you, I had suggested marriage counseling about a year previously - but had been told that we both needed individual before that happened by a counselor.

In that session I made it clear that, in my opinion, we both needed individual help prior to marriage counseling. But my AH disagreed, though he did agree that I was the problem and needed help. LOL.

Our marriage counselor who didn't specialize in addictions and just went along with my AH. She didn't know about the extent of the addiction or abuse issues. If it hadn't been for that moment of clarity I had sitting in that meeting, it would have been a complete waste of time and money.

[Jazzman]

Originally Posted by Still Waters

Yes. But when is the addiction issue handled? When the A lies about going to meetings or says they have it handled themselves? LOL.

Clearly when the addict says it's all good now! LOL!!

Originally Posted by Still Waters

In that session I made it clear that, in my opinion, we both needed individual help prior to marriage counseling. But my AH disagreed, though he did agree that I was the problem and needed help. LOL.

No kidding? I was the problem too! I was the only one that thought her drinking was a problem! LOL!!

Originally Posted by Still Waters

Our marriage counselor who didn't specialize in addictions and just went along with my AH.

Perfect example of a therapist billing you and insurance for their time, not their help!

Originally Posted by Still Waters

AH insisted that I either go to marriage counseling with him or get out

You know what they say... careful what you wish for...

[silkspin]

Hi Lavash, we haven't gone to traditional couples therapy so I can't comment about that specifically, but over the summer we tried a couples AA/Al Anon group that was immensely helpful. It had weekly speakers from both sides, and we interacted with other couples that are working through it together. It gave us both food for thought and allowed us, through the experiences of other couples, reflect upon ourselves and our behaviour. So that was very valuable, I think to both of us. He's since admitted that he doesn't think AA is for him, and has stopped going to meetings, but he didn't close the door completely on the couples night (although we can only go if we have a sitter).

But before he got sober, he went through a variety of addiction-type programs at a local hospital. There was group and individual therapy. None of it stuck and I'm not sure if any of it had impact because it didn't stop the drinking.

At this point, you are still so early in recovery, and I had asked this same question when in your boat (I'm just over a year in Al Anon). Advice to me from this community was to focus on myself first, and allow him to do the same. I was having issues because of the gap between us. I was very unsure of how to act with him because I second-guessed everything I thought of - was that unhealthy? Was this an unhealthy reaction? I wanted to know how to get on with him in a healthier manner. I discovered that this meant separate recovery, at least for a while. The couples group came up at around the same time, so I opted for that, maybe a bit more casual, and I think it's worked well. In any case, we both had so much crap to deal with individually, I started to feel that the best way was to tackle our own demons, then when we're at a stable level, we can deal with coming together. Turns out, we're at different stages, but that's ok. We all recover differently and must allow that of one another. A few weeks ago my focus started turning back on him after he said the things about not wanting AA etc. This is when I talked to a friend and asked her to be my sponsor, and she said things that made me realize I was slipping. So again, I'm back on my road. If I focus on my road, then hopefully his and mine will have some good intersections.

It sounds like you guy is still a ways off in terms of recovery, even if sober. You also have to really examine your motives for therapy - if deep down there is something that you hope he will get out of it, because although he may, he may not. Sometimes what we see as 'best interest' is really veiled attempts at control and trying to steer to a certain result. If you go for you, then it doesn't matter if he's there or not. And when you get better, your actions and reactions to him improve and you feel better and then it snowballs from there. Best to you.

[Lavash]

Thanks for that Silk.
There was a AA/Al Anon meeting 2 weeks ago and he thought we should go. But we didn't!
He is far way to recovery and far because I truly don't think he wants to get well.
I'm far from recovery but I want to get well.

I'm going to couples therapy to see if we can be a couple. It was this or leave. There is no in between.
Not sure why he agreed to go, but it's probably because he knows I'm going to leave him if things don't get better.
The appointment is today at 5pm, so should be interesting.

[LaTeeDa]

I think couples therapy can work if both people have the objective of learning how to be a better partner in the relationship.

When we tried it, neither of us was interested in learning about ourselves. My objective was to enlist someone who would vindicate me. Tell him how right I was and how he needed to change. I wanted him to "see some things," as you put it.

His objective was to prove that he was not as bad as I made him out to be. That I was overreacting and he was just fine. He went in order to get me off his back.

Needless to say, couples therapy was a failure under these conditions. The silver lining, however, was that I continued to see her without him and changed my life in the process.

L

[Cowgirl1265]

Originally Posted by LaTeeDa

When we tried it, neither of us was interested in learning about ourselves. My objective was to enlist someone who would vindicate me. Tell him how right I was and how he needed to change. I wanted him to "see some things," as you put it.

His objective was to prove that he was not as bad as I made him out to be. That I was overreacting and he was just fine. He went in order to get me off his back.

LTD, are you my long lost twin? That is to a tee how couples therapy went for my and my H. The only session that was ever really helpful was when we were separating and the agenda we went with was how to work together to make it better for the children. As long as our agenda was self-involved, couples therapy was useless. He was NEVER going to see the light and I was NEVER going to stop trying to get him to.

[Lavash]

The session was not good.
Two really angry people in front of a doctor trying to both be heard.....She "clobbered" me on one point and my BF was so thrilled she called me out he screams out to her "thank you"
Then she looked at him and said "That is uncalled for and an attack, I'm not taking sides here'
He says "I'm sorry"
She says "Don't say sorry to me, say sorry to her"

He could not say sorry to me, all he could say was "Can I explain why I said that"

The rest I don't even want to talk/think about.

I left the session got in my car and came home. Didn't even look at the BF.

I cried the entire 30 mins home and am very unsettled and in pain right now

[intheknow]

Just breathe. This too shall pass. You will see the real person thru this process, and then you can make a decision based on logic, not emotion.

(((((hugs))))) I have been right where you are.

[Lavash]

Originally Posted by intheknow

Just breathe. This too shall pass. You will see the real person thru this process, and then you can make a decision based on logic, not emotion.

(((((hugs))))) I have been right where you are.

Thank you, I need that hug a lot.
I'm sitting here alone at home not eaten since 11:30 am today, still sitting in my work clothes, my cats are crying for food and all I can do is sit here and cry. I'm so very depressed right now, I can't seem to function!