I co-created my relationship with xabf

[NYC_Chick]

Recent threads about blaming the alcoholic got me thinking about my relationship with my xabf.

Before I knew of his drinking, we went to couples therapy together. We would both blame each other for stuff. She would say we co-created the relationship and both responsible for the problems. Ok, fair enoungh. After I learned of his alcoholism and continued to see her on my own I would continue with the poor me blame game. She would again tell me I co-created the relationship. At first I was mad. He lied, manipulated, drank and schemed. How was I to blame for any of it? Well, I allowed it. All of it. Instead if being mad, this information empowered me. I had a choice. I stayed. The good news was that I still had choices. I could choose to have pity parties for what he did, or I could choose to acknowledge my part in it, accept that something in me had to change, and go on to a much more happy life. There are many hard things in this. The anger at myself was huge, but got better as time went on. There is hope for everyone in the same situation if they choose to take their power back.

[LaTeeDa]

That's what I love about this place. It gets me thinking. I often have AHA moments because of topics and threads here.

L

[catlovermi]

Y'know, I'm evolving to believe that the angrier I am, the more likely it is I am angry at MYSELF, when I really examine it. This has been my experience. Sometimes it takes quite a while to see that I'm actually angry at MYSELF, but in the end, that is what it is. But coming to this realization, now when I mount an angry response, I look at it differently, and start looking at where I'm angry at MYSELF, while thinking I'm angry at another person. What am I putting up with that is ticking me off?

Short of some power swooping in and taking away my rights and properties, such as in an act of war, mostly my angry responses have to do with things I have enabled, allowed, neglected, avoided, or ignored.

Ouch.

CLMI

[ElegantlyWasted]

So true! Great post. Hope you are making meaningful choices concernng how you interact with your world. I think like anything else; we get out of it what we put into it. Reading posts sincerely communicatng with others, and working my program allows me step back and view things from a more objective perspective. We do have choice, but at times fall into automatic behavior patterns that are not healthy for ourselves nor those we care about. Thanks for a great post. Humbly on day 101 this time.

[NYC_Chick]

Cat: I try to remember the anger at myself back then and use it to guide better decisions for myself in the future. I think the feeling if anger at myself was worse to live through than being with him. I don't ever want to feel that bad about my choices again.

[Still Waters]

Originally Posted by NYC_Chick

Recent threads about blaming the alcoholic got me thinking about my relationship with my xabf.

Before I knew of his drinking, we went to couples therapy together. We would both blame each other for stuff. She would say we co-created the relationship and both responsible for the problems. Ok, fair enoungh. After I learned of his alcoholism and continued to see her on my own I would continue with the poor me blame game. She would again tell me I co-created the relationship. At first I was mad. He lied, manipulated, drank and schemed. How was I to blame for any of it? Well, I allowed it. All of it. Instead if being mad, this information empowered me. I had a choice. I stayed. The good news was that I still had choices. I could choose to have pity parties for what he did, or I could choose to acknowledge my part in it, accept that something in me had to change, and go on to a much more happy life. There are many hard things in this. The anger at myself was huge, but got better as time went on. There is hope for everyone in the same situation if they choose to take their power back.

Some of us were the opposite though, we blamed ourselves for ALL of it - going so far as to think we should have done more, should have been more understanding, given into sex more often, cooked better/more, listened harder, cleaned more. In my case, should I have watched what he drank?? Maybe I should have sent the kid away more often so he had more one on one time with me. I should have never asked about the expenses. I should just admit he's always right, because I'm always wrong.

Something in me needed to change for sure, and a turning point was being able to place blame where it belonged, and it wasn't all mine.

It took a lot of courage for me to speak up in marriage counseling, about the abuse. A lot. Was I pointing fingers? You bet I was. But it wasn't until I was in individual therapy that I even recognized the abuse for what it was, before I thought it was all me. That's what he said it was, and I believed him.

Once I realized what was going on, I no longer allowed it. I got out.

[LaTeeDa]

The thing about blame, though, is it's all about the past. And fear.

I was raised to believe that it had to be someone's fault. That meant that if I couldn't blame someone else, then it must be my fault.

I had to learn to take the blame/fault out of it all together. Blaming someone else only makes me a victim. Blaming myself makes me the problem.

This is where "it is what it is" comes in. It doesn't really matter to me whose "fault" something is anymore. I no longer need to point fingers and blame because -- it just doesn't matter. What matters is what I do NOW. Where do I go from here? Blame only keeps me wallowing in the muck of the past. It does nothing to enhance my life in the present.

L

[NYC_Chick]

Still: What I am trying to say is that staying in a place where anyone assigns blame for all bad things in a relationship keeps you stuck. At least it did for me.

I was not happy for a very long time before I left. I thought that if he changed I would be happy. After the truth came out I literally would tell anyone who listened how bad he was for what he did to me. I mentioned nothing of my own self torture. My therapists job was to help me figure out how to be unstuck and to tell me the truth. The truth is that I stayed when I wasn't happy. I allowed what he was doing to rule my life. I was the only one who could change that. Was some of this his fault? Yes, but it takes two people to create a sick relationship. Continually blamming did not help then and won't help now.

[Laverene]

Originally Posted by NYC_Chick

Still: What I am trying to say is that staying in a place where anyone assigns blame for all bad things in a relationship keeps you stuck. At least it did for me.

True for me as well. At any point I have a multitude of options in my actions. Anytime I change my actions, it automatically changes the dynamic in the relationship.

I recently ended a relationship and he wants to take all the blame for things ending. Sorry, nope. You made choices - I made choices - you made choices - I chose to leave. Equal footing. No blame. I don't give away my power anymore, even after I walk out the door.

In a way, I see his wanting to take blame as a cop out and I'm trying to wrap my head around why. If he 'blames' himself, he sees it as inevitable that I left and now he doesn't have to get creative and work on new ways? Something to that effect.

Relationships don't have cause and effect IMHO, they are reciprocal. I'm really working on this understanding.

[bookwyrm]

Originally Posted by LaTeeDa

The thing about blame, though, is it's all about the past. And fear.

I was raised to believe that it had to be someone's fault. That meant that if I couldn't blame someone else, then it must be my fault.

I had to learn to take the blame/fault out of it all together. Blaming someone else only makes me a victim. Blaming myself makes me the problem.

This is where "it is what it is" comes in. It doesn't really matter to me whose "fault" something is anymore. I no longer need to point fingers and blame because -- it just doesn't matter. What matters is what I do NOW. Where do I go from here? Blame only keeps me wallowing in the muck of the past. It does nothing to enhance my life in the present.

L

This is what I'm trying to get the hang of now - and I'm getting better at it! Like SW, I too shouldered the blame for everything and it took a long time for me to turn around and point the finger back at him in my head. Now, with the help of my counsellor, I have realised that the blame game does no one any good. Its just another thing I have to let go of. I really give those first 3 steps a work out!!!

[Still Waters]

Originally Posted by LaTeeDa

The thing about blame, though, is it's all about the past. And fear.

I was raised to believe that it had to be someone's fault. That meant that if I couldn't blame someone else, then it must be my fault.

I had to learn to take the blame/fault out of it all together. Blaming someone else only makes me a victim. Blaming myself makes me the problem.

This is where "it is what it is" comes in. It doesn't really matter to me whose "fault" something is anymore. I no longer need to point fingers and blame because -- it just doesn't matter. What matters is what I do NOW. Where do I go from here? Blame only keeps me wallowing in the muck of the past. It does nothing to enhance my life in the present.

L

To me you're just calling blame something else. I needed to understand that I was not to blame for being abused. Blaming myself for it was unhealthy and it stopped me from seeing it for what it really was.

I was the victim of abuse. I'm sorry that bothers you, that I would call myself a victim, but that is exactly what I was...and am no longer.

And it wasn't in the past, it was going on every single day, every minute.

Sitting around blaming now? Yes, that's mucking around in the past, but back when I needed to take action for my sanity and my health it was a very important step.

Many come here in the very beginning steps, searching for answers through intense pain. I don't want them to allow abuse to continue because they're told it's unhealthy to place blame on others.

That said, you're absolutely right: It just no longer matters, thank God.

[LaTeeDa]

It doesn't bother me at all. And, for the record, I was speaking from my own experience of blaming the alcoholic for my misery, not speaking of abuse.

The main point I was making was that you don't have to blame someone else in order NOT to blame yourself. You don't have to blame AT ALL. It's not required. And, for me at least, it gets in the way of moving forward and healing.

L

[Still Waters]

The main point I was making was that you don't have to blame someone else in order NOT to blame yourself.

Good point I wish I had known that back then.

[Live]

There are so many paths and journeys to that place called freedom.
Freedom from living in pain and fear.
If we can only reach out a hand....to the one who is right behind us and the one in front of us....as long as we know we can take a step on our own today....or reach out a hand,
Yes, I too, had to know I was being victimized in order to know I was a victim, so that I could no longer be one.
I had to learn what kind of mess I was in, in order to find my way out.
A victim of what and whom....the answers to that are legion.
That is why it was so confusing, complicated and is being worked out daily,
for me.
There was never anything quite so simple to it as simply stepping out of it
in a single leap and bound...
That is why I still carry scars and why I am still working on this journey of life.
Hindsight is always easier than foresight.
I guess that is why we are called healing and recovering.
I am grateful that I am more free to do that now than ever.

[abcdefg]

Originally Posted by LaTeeDa

The thing about blame, though, is it's all about the past. And fear.

I was raised to believe that it had to be someone's fault. That meant that if I couldn't blame someone else, then it must be my fault.

I had to learn to take the blame/fault out of it all together. Blaming someone else only makes me a victim. Blaming myself makes me the problem.

This is where "it is what it is" comes in. It doesn't really matter to me whose "fault" something is anymore. I no longer need to point fingers and blame because -- it just doesn't matter. What matters is what I do NOW. Where do I go from here? Blame only keeps me wallowing in the muck of the past. It does nothing to enhance my life in the present.

L

This is so, so, so, so true for me LTD.

I was very, very ill when I started working my steps and when I would hear people talk in meetings about "What's my part?" all I heard them saying was, "What's my FAULT?"

Since I despised As, I would silently react with: NOTHING is my FAULT -- those people are pigs and blah blah blah.

As I learned and grew in program, I stopped judging so much but I still heard "What's my FAULT?" because I was so guilt-ridden and I had never lived in a world-view absent of fault-finding.

Well, that's not what the question is. The actual question is: What's my PART?

PART as in PARTICIPATE. How did I participate in the situation?

Sometimes my participation is that I was refusing to listen when someone told me who they really are and instead I heard what I wanted to hear. Sometimes I was mean to someone and justified it by saying they were mean to me. Sometimes my participation boils down to just standing there -- nothing right or wrong about it but that's my participation.

At any rate, hearing it accurately made a big difference in my progress.

[Ago]

Originally Posted by abcdefg

This is so, so, so, so true for me LTD.

I was very, very ill when I started working my steps and when I would hear people talk in meetings about "What's my part?" all I heard them saying was, "What's my FAULT?"

Since I despised As, I would silently react with: NOTHING is my FAULT -- those people are pigs and blah blah blah.

As I learned and grew in program, I stopped judging so much but I still heard "What's my FAULT?" because I was so guilt-ridden and I had never lived in a world-view absent of fault-finding.

Well, that's not what the question is. The actual question is: What's my PART?

PART as in PARTICIPATE. How did I participate in the situation?

Sometimes my participation is that I was refusing to listen when someone told me who they really are and instead I heard what I wanted to hear. Sometimes I was mean to someone and justified it by saying they were mean to me. Sometimes my participation boils down to just standing there -- nothing right or wrong about it but that's my participation.

At any rate, hearing it accurately made a big difference in my progress.

Thank You so much for this, I have trying to explain this revelation and doing really a very poor job of it, but it was like the HUGE a-ha, I can assign responsibility, but not "blame" it's not that someone else is "blameless" it's just I needed to remove them and blame from the equation entirely in order to make the right decision for ME, as long as I am blaming them OR me, I am unable to see my part, which, for one example, was me trusting my alcoholic mother.

No fault, no blame, just I trusted her, and she was untrustworthy, so now having moved on and getting away from where she had power over me, I will never place myself in her power again but there is no more "blame".

She is a very selfish and ill person but I no longer think ill of her because it's a waste of MY time.

As long as I am blaming or fingerpointing I am blocked from the solution, and stuck in the past.

[Live]

I just found a stickie that I did not know existed. (I sure wish I did and had read it the day it came out!)
It explains why codependency/al-anon treatment and abuse/domestic violence treatment are incompatible.
Suddenly, the two different perspectives on this very thread make so much sense.
We are talking about two very different things/situations/experiences/problems and there solutions are just as different.
Sw, I hope you have read it. If not, I am sure you will appreciate it very much.
It is titled something like DV and Chemical Substance Abuse or some such very similar.

[Still Waters]

No, I haven't read it, but I definitely will!

BTW - just found some information for domestic abuse help locally. I'm going to call them on Mon.

[intheknow]

This is such a great thread. As I look back at my life, through pictures, I think it is very interesting that I have gone thru so many changes.

When he wasn't happy, I had to somehow find and create the reason that I thought he wasn't happy. Since I thought I couldn't change who I was...the one thing I could change was my appearance.

I was a blonde, a brunette and a redhead. I had short hair, long hair, curly hair and straight hair. I was skinny, I was average and I was heavier than I needed to be (hmmm, interestingly enough this was always in the lowest of the low points). I was into fitness, I was so not into fitness. I was too tan, and then I was not. I wore heavy makeup, I didn't care anymore.

I spent so long trying to figure out what was wrong with me - I mean it had to be me right? This person was so unhappy in our relationship for 20 years - it had to be me!

Now that I understand this disease, I wish I had all that energy, time and money back that I spent doing things I thought would make him happy. I would have been a stronger, wiser person much sooner.

And I would have found someone who loved me for who I am.