So many changes...

[stg1979]

I have a long story, but I will try to condense it for the sake of anyone who is reading this.

My boyfriend is an alcoholic. I once gave him the "ultimatum" to quit drinking or quit us. To my surprise, he quit drinking and stayed sober for a while. I was naive in thinking he could do this without help. Last weekend he got drunk. When he drinks, it is a classic case of Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde. He goes from a loving, caring, sweet, respectful, plugged-in boyfriend, to being down-right mean. A long story short (since I am sure we all know the story...person gets drunk, thinks irrationally, fight blows out), he pushed me and a few minutes later slapped me. He didn't cause me any pain, but the fact that he did it at all was 110% not ok. 911 had to be called to have him removed since he was not leaving on his own and my children were due back from their fathers at any time.

He has been staying at his moms and we have been in contact over the phone only (we have not seen each other). Of course he has made the "I'm sorry. It will never happen again. I will change" yadda-yadda-yadda speech. His words mean nothing to me, and I told him that (in a lot more words, of course). I told him if he is really truly sorry, and really wants us to work, then he needs to get help for himself before I can allow him back into my house with my children. I also told him he would have to continue getting help until I felt 100% confident that I would not be putting my children or myself in harms way to have him here. I also told him HE has to get help, I will not get it for him. I will support him, I will go with him to AA meetings, but I will not do it for him. (He has been seeing a counselor for a few months to deal with other issues, and I told him he needs to talk about this issue/incident specifically with his counselor as well as everything else he is working on with her). I have taken care of him in the past (cooking for him, keeping track of dr.s appointments, picking out clothes when he needs to be dressy, etc.), which I don't mind. That has always been a 2-way street with us. But this one is his battle, not mine.

I am 100% set that if he fails to do what I need him to do then I will wipe my hands clean of this relationship and move on. It is so hard to not let him back here right this second. I love him to death, and I know if he can overcome this and get the help that he needs, we can have a happily-ever-after. Everything else about our relationship is perfect (ok, not perfect. Of course we have our ups-and-downs, but we can work through our issues with mutual respect, which I believe is a huge part of what makes our relationship so strong).

I joined this forum to keep the strength I have right now to make sure I don't allow him back here until he is ready to come back. I also want to know if I am doing the right thing. I know it's hard to get an accurate assessment from a group of strangers who do not know the whole situation and do not know us, but I also know you all have experience with this. Any words of encouragement, advice, even criticism, is greatly appreciated. (So much for keeping is short, huh).

[naive]

hi stg1979-

welcome! you're in the right place.

i think you are doing the right thing. mine pushed me once when he was drunk. the next day, he was so sorry. said it would never happen again.

it did happen again. and again. and again.

finally, i got hurt. i have a broken shoulder. it's not healing well and i can't lift things with that arm anymore. i can't swim. i can't do a cartwheel. i used to be a gymnast and competed also in swimming.

i do believe that it wouldn't have happened without the alcohol. he promised he would stop and he did for periods. but he never worked a program, so it never stuck.

if yours is like mine, i believe you are in danger of a repeat attack as long as there is drink involved.

please, learn from my mistake and stick to your resolve. if he wants help, it is available for him at AA. without that, i would stick to no contact if i was you.

naive

[NYC_Chick]

Hi and welcome!

Don't let him back! I know this sounds harsh, but my dad was a non violent alcoholic until he wasn't. He hit my mom, then us. The last time je did it he had her in a corner b her neck until she was blue. I walked in to see. What he was doing and he let her go. They divorced right after. Please be careful! Hugs!

[FreeBird09]

Mine was, as you described yours, the most wonderful person. Non violent, at peace, on and on and on... (all the things I miss about him) and on several occasions, while drinking he became violent. It started with the name calling, (which stunned me, as he was a gentleman from what I had known of him) pushing me, twisting my wrists, screaming in my face... then one night I had a huge birthday party for him, he was drunk I said something confrontational to him I turned around and walked away and he hit me as hard as he could in the back that it was bruised for weeks.

Hold your ground and do not let this happen in your house around your children. I always say, you can get any one of these men a dime a dozen at any local watering hole, but you can never replace your child, or any emotional damage that will occur being involved with someone like that.

[veryregretful]

Freebird - Your absolutely right that you can never replace your child or the emotional damage that has been caused by the AH. My AH is very verbally abusive. It's been almost 3 weeks since he has been gone. It's very hard on me but what is holding me together is that I have these 2 precious 14 year olds that need stability in their life and a sane mother. I'm finally able to do more for them than I have in many years because I was so involved in his life. I hope I didn't lose too much with my kids.

STG welcome - my AH hardly ever says I'm sorry and I'll change, etc. I wouldv'e like some kind of aknowledgement from him knowing he was abusive while drinking. He's been gone almost 3 weeks and he's staying at a friends house and she's telling me that he wants to only drink during football games but he'll stay away from us so he won't get abusive. Yeah okay. I've heard that before. I can handle drinking 1 or 2 beers that's it. Yeah, maybe 1 or 2 six packs.

I am not totally there yet on wiping my hands clean of him if he decides not to get sober. I'm trying to get there. I just bought the book CoDependent No More and am excited about reading it. I still love him deeply and would take him back if her were sober and actively seeking help. Who actually wants a broken family to happen to them? I certainly didn't. But my kids come first right now!!!!

STG - How long has he been out of the house and how old are your children?

I just wanted to add a little to this post but don't know if it helped. I'm just almost 3 weeks into it and right now I see no hopes of reconcialtion anytime soon as he is not looking for help. He still wants to drink.

I'm trying to stick to the no contract rule. I was doing bad at the beginning but as time goes on I really don't want to talk with him. I posted another post about him disappointing his son for not showing up twice to take him to dinner I want to call him and tell him how angry I am for him disappointing my son but what good is that. I'm better off not trying to contact him. He is supposed to be picking up my daughter tonight for dinner. We'll see what happens. I'm not going to go into this on this post because I have another one going but I just wanted to reply to this one.

Sorry I rambled on again!!!!!! Take care STG and sounds like you are doing better than what I am right now. Hope you post again!!!!

[rdy4change]

I agree with NYC Chick on not letting him back. I know it's hard when you love someone and you want to have faith in them and support them the best you can. I love my AH to death (when he's sober) and other than that want to leave so badly. I'm afraid what will happen if I leave because if I were him I would hate for someone I loved to turn their back on me when I needed their help. HOWEVER.....if he were to walk out the door today I know I would be sad but the sense of relief would be much greater.

Having said that, you're free...stay that way. It will be easier to walk away now than later. If he gets help...great...you can still support him, from a DISTANCE. Easier said than done but if support is what you need...you'll get it here!

Hang tough!

[stg1979]

FINALLY...support without the judgment. Thank you!

My mother has told me if I take him back after last weekends episode, she would "take steps" to have the kids removed from my home. I told her I am way smarter than she gives me credit for and I would never, NEVER put my children in harms way.

That said, I would like to be with him, just not have him living here, and not having my kids in the picture. I would love for him to move back here sometime after he has remained sober for a while and has committed to getting help. I also know that will not happen tomorrow.

So far he has remained sober, despite his sleepless nights and depressive state. He tells me he never wants another drop of alcohol again if it means losing me. He also has said that he doesn't want to drink, he just never had a reason to stop before. I don't know how I feel about that response. I want to know he is not only doing this for me, but for HIM as well. I know that if he is doing it only for me then it probably will not last and he will learn to resent me eventually.

It has only been 3 days, so not long at all. This is only the beginning. I am going to an AA meeting with him tomorrow. That is a start (well, the fact that he hasn't drank in 3 days is a start...a huge start, considering all that is happening).

I did break down and went to see him today. That was bitter sweet. It was good to discuss this face to face. I can tell by the way he looked at me and held me he is truly sorry for what happened. He cried many times during our visit, something he never does (he once cried when he had to put a dog down. He is just so numb to emotions due to his past). That was huge. I can tell he gets it, really gets it.

I am still concerned about my mother's threat. Is it possible for her to have my kids taken if he is getting help and is remaining sober? Like I said, it will be a while before he is back in my home or around them. I will NEVER put my children behind anything or anyone. They are my number one priorities (btw, someone asked their ages: they are 2 and 9). I have never put my children in harms way. It is my job to protect them. I am their mother. No man will ever come before them, no matter how much in love I am...they are my first loves. My life is centered around them. It always has been.

I am long-winded sometimes. I just have so much in my head, and typing it out helps me to organize it a bit. I thank those of you who have read these posts and responded.

[hello-kitty]

Hi. I really appreciate your post and the firm conviction of your words.

I encourage you to remember that when it comes to an alcoholic and recovery, it is the actions that count, not the alcholics (or physically abusive person's) words or tears. Even alligators cry alligator tears... Not saying your BF is an alligator but of course he's depressed right now - he's probably feeling a lack of alcohol in his system and he lost his wife because of his drinking.

You have set boundaries and I encourage you to follow through on them. See if he really works the AA program (on his own without your encouragement). See if he really stays sober. Or see if he's just manipulating you with his tears and feeling sorry for himself because he screwed up and smacked his girlfriend around when he was drunk.

I'd be really wary of the whole idea that if he quits drinking you will live happily ever after... there is no happily ever after. Life is not a fairy tale. There are underlying problems that cause a person to turn to alcohol to deal with emotions. And it takes a lifetime to learn healthy coping mechanisms... not just three days.

Have you thought about attending alanon while he attends AA? Then you can BOTH work on recovery and maybe end up meeting in the middle somewhere.

[me11109]

Originally Posted by stg1979

I am still concerned about my mother's threat. Is it possible for her to have my kids taken if he is getting help and is remaining sober? Like I said, it will be a while before he is back in my home or around them. I will NEVER put my children behind anything or anyone. They are my number one priorities (btw, someone asked their ages: they are 2 and 9). I have never put my children in harms way. It is my job to protect them. I am their mother. No man will ever come before them, no matter how much in love I am...they are my first loves. My life is centered around them. It always has been.

Your mother is right to impress upon you how serious the situation is. She can go to child protective services and report the situation. Then, she can go to court to try to get guardianship of your kids.

Now, I am assuming that your mother is a pretty reasonable person normally.

If she is willing to go to these lengths and likely destroy her relationship with you, it does say something about her concern, the situation, and her conviction.

Remember that you are not able to see the situation perhaps as objectively as an outsider can.

My thought is that your Alcoholic would need to show that:
A) they can remain sober for a significant length of time (perhaps 6+ months)
B) during the sober time, they are working on the underlying problems as to why they drink.

So, since this would be six months out, you don't have to worry about it today. You need to protect your kids.

Just love your kids (and your mother too). One day at a time. You don't have to solve everything today .. but you need to do it with the A out of the house.

[Dreamer42long]

STG1979 - I am a newbie too and when I say you are telling my story, I MEAN you are telling my story. For 4 years, I have been with my ABF. Sober he is the sweetest, gentlest person I have ever known. But like your ABF, once drunk, he turns from Dr. Jeckyll to Mr. Hyde. His behavior during his alcoholic binges became more aggressive over time. In the beginning all he wanted to do was "hug" me while he was drunk....then after awhile hugging turned to yelling turned to filthy, abhorrent language turned to pushing turned to arm twisting. It seems the more I stayed with him, the more comfortable he became abusing me, like he was saying, "you idiot!" (I have to agree with him there!)

After the binges come the remorse and I cannot tell you how many time I have heard "Never again." Our heart-to-hearts always left me hopeful and I'd say to myself, 'I think he really means it this time." But it never lasts, there is always a next time because he is still in denial and is not ready to accept help. He thinks he can quit on his own.

I wish I found this site years ago. Please, please heed the advise that the above posters give you. Take what he 'says' with a grain of salt and tread carefully.

Keep us posted on your progress....

[NYC_Chick]

Are you really sure he hasn't drank in 3 days ? My xabf said the same thing and went to meetings. All lies. Please be careful!

[stg1979]

Originally Posted by NYC_Chick

Are you really sure he hasn't drank in 3 days ? My xabf said the same thing and went to meetings. All lies. Please be careful!

He is staying with his mom and her bf. His moms bf is currently laid off, so they have been together all the days, and he has confirmed that my bf has not drank.

[stg1979]

Originally Posted by me11109

Now, I am assuming that your mother is a pretty reasonable person normally.

If she is willing to go to these lengths and likely destroy her relationship with you, it does say something about her concern, the situation, and her conviction.

I know where my mother is coming from, I really do. My mother has always been controlling & manipulative of me when I have done things a different way then she might have. That's just her nature. I see her doing it with my brother & her husband as well.

I am not saying that my mother isn't right in this case. I know she is. And even without my mother's threat, I wouldn't want him in the house right now. I am just wondering if he did stay away for 6 months (I was thinking that number, too), and during that 6 months remained sober & did what he has to to get help (AA AND therapy), would my mother still have a case. My guess is no, but I need to be sure before I invest any more time into him. I love him till the ends of the Earth, but I love my kids even more.

I understand how an addict works, my daughter's biological father was a drug addict. I played the fool and stayed with him for a year and a half, thinking he was going to change. Of course, he only got worse. He is not in my daughter's life and signed his rights over to my ex-husband.

But, I also know that if an addict really wants to stop, they can. My step-father was an alcoholic when he and my mom first met, but he stopped when he almost lost my mother. My brother is a recovering alcoholic and has not touched a drop in a few years.

I am taking this whole situation with a huge grain of salt, and my eyes are wide open. Thank you again for all of your advice.

[veryregretful]

Hi

I don't have much advice as my AH has been out of the house for three weeks. My AH never had remorse or said I'm sorry when he was on a binge and verbally abused either myself or my children. they are 14. I would not believe anything they say. Seeing is believing. In my case, my AH told my kids last night (they went to dinner to talk) that he deserves to drink after working so hard. That I believe about him continueing to drink. At least he told the kids so it came from the horses mouth.

Talk is cheap!! He says he's and alcoholic but doesn't do anything about it. He's lied the last 20 years so there is no way I would believe him unless I saw a chip in his hand and had proven to me he has gotten help along with becoming sober. He was sober from jan to aug this year but nothing changed with his attitude. I admit mine either but I didn't trust him. How could I? Deep down I love him and want him home but these last three weeks have been peaceful. no eggshells here. I feel sorry for him. But because I feel sorry for him doesn't mean that I'm bringing him home while still drinking. My kids don't want him home until sober so I'm going to respect that. They opened my eyes and I am here to protect them.

I don't think he has hit bottem but I'm not sure if I'll be there when he does. His choice. I'm trying to things to change me because I'm tired of being sick but nothing from him. No remorse. He isn't even in the house and verbally abusing me. He called me saturday night till 2am telling me I'm sleeping with his brother. Dillusional.

He's total Jekle and Hyde.

I really don't think this post helped but I just felt I needed to add something.

P.S. I can't keep my posts short either. I try to but just keep typing. Take care and PM me if you would like.

[JMFburns]

stg,

He is an adult and can get to AA meetings on his own. If he is willing to go with out you being there to support him and hold his hand then it might mean he wants this for himself. If he doesn't want it for himself it won't be of any value.

Just take that step back and see if his ACTIONS speak louder that his WORDS.

[Bernadette]

My thought is that your Alcoholic would need to show that:
A) they can remain sober for a significant length of time (perhaps 6+ months)
B) during the sober time, they are working on the underlying problems as to why they drink.

And if he is really in recovery and working a program he will not need to "show it." It will be so obvious to you and everyone around him.

I would not want to set myself up to be in a position of monitoring or judging whether I think he is working his recovery etc. You may not like who he becomes once he is recovered. Right now, and for all the years you've known and related to him he has been an alcoholic. That is a huge dynamic in a person's personality & relationships. When A's find sobriety and recovery things shift and change - you honestly cannot know from this vantage point what he will be like in 6 months whether he gets sober or he keeps drinking.

Base your decisions on the facts. He has a drinking problem. He got violent with you, the person he is meant to love and respect.

I would take this precious opportunity to practice completely letting go of him and his problems. To trust the process of life and put my focus on myself and my kids and MY problems...just step off completely from his alcoholism and his recovery. Let it be 100% his to own and let him answer to himself.

And I would take the big amount of available energy that will be mine once I let go of his problems and I would focus it on me! For me AlAnon and therapy helped me do that to maximum effect!

peace-
B

[me11109]

Originally Posted by stg1979

I know where my mother is coming from, I really do. My mother has always been controlling & manipulative of me when I have done things a different way then she might have. That's just her nature. I see her doing it with my brother & her husband as well.

I am not saying that my mother isn't right in this case. I know she is. And even without my mother's threat, I wouldn't want him in the house right now. I am just wondering if he did stay away for 6 months (I was thinking that number, too), and during that 6 months remained sober & did what he has to to get help (AA AND therapy), would my mother still have a case. My guess is no, but I need to be sure before I invest any more time into him. I love him till the ends of the Earth, but I love my kids even more.

...

But, I also know that if an addict really wants to stop, they can. My step-father was an alcoholic when he and my mom first met, but he stopped when he almost lost my mother. My brother is a recovering alcoholic and has not touched a drop in a few years.

Hi STG -

I do know about controlling mothers and I know something about alcoholism.

For me, it has become so clear that a person who stops drinking and does nothing else -- frankly, isn't in recovery. Period. Alcohol is the solution, not the problem.

An alcoholic will stop because, in their manipulative mind, it gives them something ... there is a benefit to them.

So, the real measure of whether an alcoholic is serious after they have completely stopped drinking are things like:

- they are working a program of recovery (AA, 12 step, other) seriously
- you are seeing them become more self aware about their problems in life (depression, anger, resentment, stress, etc.) and they are taking specific steps to work on these issues (seeing a therapist, working to learn more about how they feel, meeting with a sponsor, doing amends, etc.)
- you are seeing them be honest with themselves about their past drinking, its effects, and what it would mean to relapse
- you are seeing them begin to move away from being self-centered to wanting to focus on helping others first
... many more, but you get the idea

Yes, they can recover. Yes, they can return to being the loving person you care for. But, they have to work at it every day -- and alcoholism gives you no credit for past sobriety. It is ruthless and cunning and you are only one drink away from destruction.

I know. I am an alcoholic and I will be until I die.

But today, I get to work with a newcomer who is on day 12 of their sobriety -- and this keeps me sober.

God bless.

ME

[stg1979]

Well, I went with him to his first AA meeting today. He sat there and listened. When they asked him if he wanted to share, he hesitated and said he doesn't really like to talk, so that was that. He is a very shy and quiet person. I know it will be hard for him to open up. Afterward he told me he almost said something, but couldn't find the words. He is hoping to find the courage to talk at the next meeting. We will see. I hope he does because I think it will help him. I know saying things out loud (or typing them on a message board such as this) helps me to organize my thoughts and feel better inside, rather than bottling it all up.

He has asked me to sit in on his next therapist appointment with him. He has been seeing a therapist for anger management for about 3 or 4 months...on his own. I told him I felt he could benefit from it, and he made an appointment. And he has made and attended every appointment since. I told him I would go with him, but that it is better he does the therapy part by himself, like he has been doing. He just wants me there when he tells his therapist about what happened the other night. He wants to make sure he tells her everything and doesn't leave out any important details. He acknowledges that he needs to discuss this problem specifically with her. That he has said on his own.

I am confused about the whole sponsor concept, as I think he is because he really couldn't tell me what that meant. But I know one of the men there (the one who pulled us aside after the meeting and told us about other meetings, welcomed us,and congratulated him for being there) said he called several of his "sponsorees" this morning and left them all messages. I gather a sponsor is someone who offers encouragement and guidance???? I told him that he should ask someone to be his sponsor (I am rooting for the man we talked to today...my bf seemed easy to open up to him immediately). He told me that I am all the encouragement he needs. I told him I can't do it all, and I can't talk to him on his level of being an alcoholic. I don't know what he is going through. I don't know what it is like to give up an addiction to alcohol. A sponsor can because he has been there and done that. I saw the wheels turning about that, so hopefully he will take it upon himself to ask someone to sponsor him at the next meeting. I will start another thread to ask more about the whole sponsor thing.

I was very proud of my bf today. I have seen him attend things where you can tell his mind is somewhere else. I was afraid that was going to happen today. But he was plugged in the whole hour. He listened to all of the stories (which were very inspirational, even to a non-alcoholic, I might add), and he discussed some of them with me afterward. I hope this continues as time goes on.

I think he hit rock bottom. I think the thought of losing me, my children, and our dreams of the future, scared him. I see a difference in his telling me he will stop now that I have in the past. He never showed remorse in the past. And he never seemed as though he was doing it for him (just telling me what he thought I wanted to hear). I am hopeful that this is the beginning to a life of sobriety (hopeful, but not naive and blind).

I may look into al-anon for myself. I think it could be helpful. I know I have a lot of anger, resentment, and hurt from his alcoholism that I need to work out as well.

[me11109]

Originally Posted by stg1979

I am confused about the whole sponsor concept, as I think he is because he really couldn't tell me what that meant. But I know one of the men there (the one who pulled us aside after the meeting and told us about other meetings, welcomed us,and congratulated him for being there) said he called several of his "sponsorees" this morning and left them all messages. I gather a sponsor is someone who offers encouragement and guidance????

STG - good positive steps forward. This is good.

Tell him to have realistic expectations about meetings and not to try to understand everything the first day. Just keep going to meetings.

He should get a copy of the Big Book (if he doesn't have one already) and begin reading it. You can find it online at A.A. Big Book

As to your question about "sponsors", the concept is explained in Chapter 7 of the Big Book "Working With Others". There is a lot more in other AA literature, but let's start slow. This should begin to help you understand what is going on.

Support him in going to lots of different types of AA meetings.

I am proud of you and him.

[NYC_Chick]

Please take care of yourself. If you have read the stories on here, you no doubt see the same pattern play out.

When I left xabf, he freaked out. He went to aa right away and called his family to tell them everything. He seemed serious for the first time about sobriety. 3 weeks later, we was right back at it. I continued to communicate with him. He continued to lie. I chose to save myself. You also have children who deserve to have a calm, chaos free life. You are the only one that can provide that.

In regard to the therapist, not trying to be harsh, but this feels like text book manipulation. If you are still with him, then it could not have been that bad. That's how most addicts think. At the worst times, my ex asked me and his family to go to therapy with him, although we were both in couples counseling with someone else. If your boyfriend truly wants help for being a physical abuser, he can get it without your help.

I hope for your sake and your childrens your story is different, but with alcoholism and physical abuse...

Best of luck! Keep focusing on you.

[forjg]

I am living your story too. My ABF never got violent with me but he did get verbally abusive a few times. I have 2 children and he was living with us. He is now in inpatient treatment and will be going to a halfway house for 90 days when he gets out next week. He is doing amazingly well and it very cognizant and working on his issues. We take things one day at a time. My exhusband is understandably a little bit concerned about him coming back into our lives and my family is concerned as well. But, the way I see it is if he does the things one needs to do to work recovery then his actions will show if it is a good idea to continue our relationship more seriously.