Is it enabling letting AH live in the same house

[whyamistaying]

while drinking. Someone was telling me that if there was any hope for my marriage, I should kick him out. That I am enabling him because it is comfortable to be here (home). That he needs to lose his wife and kids to hit rock bottom.

Is that really true that I am enabling him by letting him live here?

He is still drinking...12 or 18 beers a day and I just do nothing...well, I avoid and detach and don't stay home...but he is still living here.

[wanting]

I thin that implies you can help him reach his rock bottom. I think you should kick him out if you can't take living with him anymore, but not if it's an effort to have any effect on his drinking.

[Still Waters]

What do you think whyami? You know your AH best.

[whereisthisgoin]

I'll be watching for the replies - I'm very curious to know the answer to this question.

[Trying2Fly]

In my experience with my AS, I set a boundary with her that she could not come live with me and my husband; it was a natural consequence for her behavior, but also it was an action to save my OWN sanity. I cannot be around her when she drinks, and that's that. I put myself and my marriage first, and I'm ok with that.

Are you OK with feeling how you feel when you are around him and his drinking? That might be the question to examine first.

[JenT1968]

Originally Posted by wanting

I thin that implies you can help him reach his rock bottom. I think you should kick him out if you can't take living with him anymore, but not if it's an effort to have any effect on his drinking.

Exactly what wanting said.

focussing on whether you are enabling him or not is still focussing on him, on how your actions could control his drinking and his outcomes.

and they can't.

enabling is often waved at codependents because we give until it hurts with the excuse that others need us. Well we aren't helping them, but we aren't hurting them either. What we are doing then is hurting ourselves for no good reason. Their choices aren't our fault. Plenty of people wake up to the damage they are causing in their life without their loved ones kicking them out, you can't predict what will be the bottom for him, if indeed there is one....


.....so lets look at what you want. Are you happy with him living there? Is this a nurturing environment for you? If nothing changed in the next 5 years, or, as is likely, got worse, would you be happy or are you hanging on in there hoping for some sort of change in his behaviour? what can you do today that would make your life better? even something small?

[LaTeeDa]

I'll add my voice to the chorus. The only thing that matters here is what YOU want. Are you living the life you want to live with him in the house? If not, then maybe you should consider a change in the situation. Not because it's enabling, not because it *might* be his bottom, but because it's YOUR life and you have the option to live it the way you want.

L

[MeHandle]

whyamstaying,

you kicking him out doesn't decide his bottom. I told my AH to leave and I would not go forward with divorce , that when he was prepared to be a healthy husband and father he could come home.However, when i told mine to leave he wouldn't. So i told him I would leave and would file for legal seperation. He told me i could just file for divorce if I was going to play that game. Soooo, I can stand to live and so can my kids in the present situation. We are in the same house. I believe that the reality of what is happenening won't hit him with a full force until we are not in the same house and he is alone. However, moving out of the bedroom, telling him i was getting a divorce and doing the paper work is enough for him to 'get it' and I am not enabling him. I am allowing what has been best for my family at present and what i can tolerate.

But I want to make clear, there is consequences to his comments and actions. He needed to get out but refused so I offered all I could for my conscience towards this marriage. Me getting out . But i also let him know that waiting for him to be an RA would not last forever and I wouldn't live in seperation limbo forever. He refused and i called his bluff. When i called his bluff he still didn't hit bottom. Still blamed me, "how could I through away 22 years of marriage, we can work this out." Daaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!! If nothing changes, nothing changes. Daaaa!!!!!!! Who is throwing away, and who is not moving with action to 'work this out.'Daaaaa!!!!

I told him my standard for me, I could not stayed married to an active alcoholic or even a dry one. We are in the same house but he knows my boundaries and he knows where I am progressing too.

Oh crap, i am late!!!!!!!! Well, maybe i will come back and finish . Really left off at paragraph 2.

[URMYEVERYTHING]

I kicked my RABF out of the house not because I was waiting or wanting him to his bottom but because I didn't want to be wrapped up in his chaos and whatever else addiction brings in the home (drugs, illegal activity, moodiness, and on and on).

Kicking him out was about ME. My sanity. MY boundaries and what I was willing to tolerate. It was about protecting MY child and his health and well being. It was about protecting MY finances and not worrying about MY safety and health.

I hope this helps in making your decision. It is true... the longer you make it comfortable for them.. the more they are not willing to get treatment even if you walk around not talking to him and completely ignoring him. He won't care about that but in the meantime your psychological health is affected.

[MeHandle]

I came back and finished it. did it on edit. got lost. oh well, not 'finishing' it again.

[CatsPajamas]

For me it was all about my motives. If I made a choice or took an action that adhered to my boundaries and was in my best interest? Then it was probably a good one. If I took an action or made a decision hoping that I could make someone else see the light or do something I wanted him to do? That was unhealthy, and in some cases it was enabling, controlling, manipulating. For me, a healthy marriage required two healthy partners. I chose to get healthier by going to counseling, going to Al Anon, making some important changes in my life. My partner made other choices.

One day at a time, you can make positive changes and choices for your own life. Your H might go along with them, and he might not... either way you've gone in a good direction.

[Learn2Live]

I agree with the other posters that you cannot make someone else hit rock bottom. No one can even KNOW what someone else's rock bottom is.

I personally do not believe that it takes "hitting rock bottom" in necessarily all cases. Plenty of people get sober or reach out for help before they hit bottom. Some of them hit what would be considered rock bottom to you and I, like homelessness and destitution, but still do not reach out for help. Some people die in active addiction and alcoholism.

Is this person advising you that kicking him out will force him to hit rock bottom which will allow you to have hope for your marriage?

Is that really true that I am enabling him by letting him live here?

Each situation is different. Are you doing anything for him that he can do for himself, that allows him to continue to drink? Each situation is different; does he contribute financially to the home? Does he share in the responsibilities of the marriage? Those are questions only you can answer.

[me11109]

Originally Posted by Learn2Live

I agree with the other posters that you cannot make someone else hit rock bottom. No one can even KNOW what someone else's rock bottom is.

I agree with Learn2Live. You can't make someone else hit their bottom and you shouldn't enable them to drink.

So, all you can control is yourself. What you are willing to put up with? What limits you want to enforce and what you will do as a consequence of those limits being crossed?

Not an easy answer, I know.

[Jadmack25]

I left my XAH after 27 years married, and he drank himself into oblivion from then on.
He finally hit his rock bottom, by mental and physical problems that put him in a nursing home, where after a non healing hip fracture, many strokes and dementia, he mercifully died 7 weeks ago. If those problems were his bottom, it took 15 years to reach it.

I don't know if my ABF has hit bottom yet, but God knows he has been in so many yukky places over the years and any of them them would have been mine.

I finally hit my bottom last year, when I realised that mentally, spiritually and physically, I just could not handle one more binge session, the c**p it brought or go thru any more withdrawals and broken promises.

He is 11 months sober and recovering, a much nicer person this time and I hope it stays that way, BUT if he relapses then he will be on his own for good, whether he sobers up or not. He may still have his bottom ahead of him, I don't know and it isn't my worry, because I have already HIT MY BOTTOM, and I am not going backwards from here.

I enabled both my late XAH and ABF, for years. Leaving each and no longer enabling had 2 different results for them, but one result for me.

I found Peace, time to care for me, energy to learn who I was and am, and a new lease on life.

Priceless gifts for me.

Look at what YOU want for you and leave your AH to take responsibility for himself. If he can't or won't do that, then TOUGH. You are not on this earth to mollycoddle someone who because of their own choices, is not caring for himself.

Put yourself FIRST and if you see it as necessary for your well being, let him go.

God bless

[Linkmeister]

I faced the same situation, asked myself the same questions and finally realized that kicking out my ABF was not about forcing him to "hit his bottom" - it was because I couldn't stand living in the chaos any longer.

I repeatedly asked him to leave and his response was to stay drunk enough so I wouldn't confront him about all what had been going on. Finally, one night after a particularly bad fight, I told him - drunk or not that it was over and that he could leave any time he wanted to. Problem was-he refused to leave and got progressively more argumentative and verbally abusive. Don't know what the exact trigger was but I phoned the police not once but twice in the same night as he tried to break his way back in to "go to bed."

To be honest, I didn't know what was going to happen, where we would end up, where he would end up and whether he would even stop drinking and the more I thought about it and talked to Al-Anon friends, the more I realized that I had finally let him go to his higher power, I gave him the grace and dignity to end up wherever he chose with no direction from me.

I still struggle with the 2 sides of the coin-did I do this to force him to hit his bottom or because I made the choice not to live in chaos any more? We have actually talked openly about this and I think ABF realizes that I may have kicked him out, but it was his choice to stay drunk or get sober-that was (and will always be) out of my hands.

As it turned out, he ended up in a men's shelter after I repeatedly refused to take him back. That was his bottom as he sobered up and started going to AA and to counseling. So far, it's 41 days sober for him and for us, separate places but still together, both embracing our recoveries, both knowing that we take each day as it comes, live it one day at a time and put our faith in our respective higher powers.

I am finally coming to terms with my decision-that it was not done out of a desire to control the outcome-in other words, to get him to stop drinking but that I made a choice to change something I could-not living with active alcoholism.

[puckettcg]

This thread has really got me thinking. Over the last year and a half, I have often threatened to kick my AH out - even going so far as to pack his bags for him and drag him out. More recently I started thinking more seriously about following through. Talked to folks on an Alanon board, who suggested I not act out of anger but give myself six months to get to a decision. I even called an attorney friend and asked her to recommend someone. And I am actually preparing for a January break if it comes to that.

If it does, it has to be about me, and not my desire to stop/controls his drinking. The last time I threatened was four days ago, and I even explained to him exactly what was going to happen to him - I even wrote down his license plate number and the number for the police station and then told him that as soon as he drove out the driveway I was going to call the police and let them know he was drunk-driving. I then went on to explain how I would not bail him out or pay for an attorney. But, why would I say that? Because its not really about me not wanting to be around a drunk, but rather this delusion I have that this will force him to wake up and understand what he is risking if he doesn't stop drinking. If it was really about me, I would have just told him he had to leave, and if he didn't I would have called the Police to have him removed. What happened after that would be his problem.

That's probably why its a good idea to wait six months before making a permanent decision. I need to make sure that when, and if, I decide to make a break it is because of me and my desire to be free from his alcoholism. And, I really need to stop threatening him - its hard, and even his parents are telling me I need to so that he will understand and stop.

Thanks for the thread.

[JenT1968]

I've been wondering about your posts "why", and please forgive me if I am way off base: this comes directly from my experience.

Two things I'd like to share with you,

1) when I first went to AL-anon my purpose was to "show him" and "try and change him" or leave. I started hearing about enabling, I felt horribly guilty and tried to get my head around it. I asked one of the members what the point of stopping doing one thing (can't remember what it was) if he would just find someone else to do it and carry on drinking regardless. She replied that the point would be that it wasn't me doing it. That made no sense to me at all, I mean none, I couldn't even begin to understand how that could be an answer to the question I'd posed. My focus was so much on him on how my actions impacted him, and on his behaviour, that the point being me in any shape or form didn't compute at all. I am thankfully not there any more, but it has taken me a long time, therapy, reading here, reading books, changing my life, doing things for me, cultivating friendships, getting a different job, and finally seperating from living with my H, to get here.

2) Because I couldn't do anything for me, just for me, I had to find reasons that would give me permission to do what I wanted "for the good of others".

I wonder, with your user name, the questions you pose, whether actually you know that you don't want to live with him like this, but don't know how to give your self permission to own that feeling and act on it?

Again, that is my experience and I might be completely off base with you, and I apologise if that's the case. But perhaps it is something to think about.

[Learn2Live]

I found Peace, time to care for me, energy to learn who I was and am, and a new lease on life.

Priceless gifts for me.

Hallelujiah Sistah!!!!

[chrisea]

I couldn't stand living in the chaos any longer, change something I could-not living with active alcoholism.

because it's YOUR life and you have the option to live it the way you want.

if doing Nothing, no helping him money wise, doing anything for him... would he still be there. For myself, he wasn't allowed to watch tv all night, I bought food I really liked (& stuff he didn't like). Mine moved on to get help elsewhere... Cathy - It was short living w her, he was then living in a car. She was a quicker learner, than myself (but wise up myself was the ultimate gift) I would have moved, but why should I, when this was my place to begin with, the rent is reasonable & would be hard to replace...

[smacked]

True, as long as he's comfy, he has no reason to change.. course.. being on street may not motivate him to change either. You're not responsible for 'creating his bottom'.

Bottom line is this, assume he'll never change, no matter what YOU do (because what YOU do, does not control this..), are YOU ok to live like this? For how long? I can't remember now if you have children.. but are you making this environment ok for them to live in too? When you decide what you will allow in YOUR life, you'll make the right choice. Until now, it's been ok that he live with you and drink as much and as often as he wants. Are you ready to live differently now?

[whyamistaying]

Originally Posted by Still Waters

What do you think whyami? You know your AH best.

I can see why it would be enabling but at the same time I don't think it is. So I guess I don't know what I think. As far as his bottom, I don't know if losing us would matter at this point. 2 DUIs, stealing from my parents, and a tresspass charge hasn't done it. Maybe jail since he hates jail. But I think maybe a 3rd DUI will do it because then there is hefty jail time.

[whyamistaying]

Originally Posted by MeHandle

I told him my standard for me, I could not stayed married to an active alcoholic or even a dry one. We are in the same house but he knows my boundaries and he knows where I am progressing too.

Thank you. AH knows about me reading and doing Al Anon and he knows what I won't do. I printed the "to my wife" letter and put it on our refrigerator. When he wanted me to do something I told him, "See (and pointed to the letter), I'm not supposed to do that as part of my recovery."

I don't think I would kick him out for him to hit rock bottom, but I was wondering if it would speed things up if this marriage was to work out every.

[whyamistaying]

Originally Posted by JenT1968

I wonder, with your user name, the questions you pose, whether actually you know that you don't want to live with him like this, but don't know how to give your self permission to own that feeling and act on it?

Again, that is my experience and I might be completely off base with you, and I apologise if that's the case. But perhaps it is something to think about.

Well, the reason I go to Al Anon is not for him. I started going because things were just too unbearable and I couldn't deal with it. So I guess I went because of him. I didn't know what else to do. And it makes me feel better so that is why I keep going. LOL But there have been several times I just look around and think how sad this whole thing is and all the pain in that room and I get mad.

I do picture my life without him. Everyone has told me that "normal" people put up with "_" this much crap and then leave. That religious people put up with "___" much crap and then leave. And that I put up with "_______________________________" much crap and still don't leave. I do know that once I leave I won't come back even if he is sober. That once I file for divorce it is over sober or not down the road. Even though we have kids, a heck of a lot has happened and there is so much damage.

[URMYEVERYTHING]

Originally Posted by whyamistaying

I can see why it would be enabling but at the same time I don't think it is. So I guess I don't know what I think. As far as his bottom, I don't know if losing us would matter at this point. 2 DUIs, stealing from my parents, and a tresspass charge hasn't done it. Maybe jail since he hates jail. But I think maybe a 3rd DUI will do it because then there is hefty jail time.

The thing is you don't know what will do it. Jail may not have him hit his bottom either. My RABF shared with me that jail was never his bottom when he was deep into his addiction years ago. It was a safety net (no access to drugs, no more crime, no more misery of living on the streets, a safe and warm place to go with 3 square meals). Once he was released, he hit the streets again.

Please remember, there are no guarantees with addiction. There is no reasoning with it. There is no sugar coating it. It is what it is. A baffling disease that only the addict can control.

[URMYEVERYTHING]

Originally Posted by whyamistaying

I don't think I would kick him out for him to hit rock bottom, but I was wondering if it would speed things up if this marriage was to work out every.

Please, I say this with the best intentions... this is still a form of control. You have no control of if he stays or leaves of speeding up his recovery. This is something he will have to decide when he is ready. When will that be? Who knows... he can wake up tomorrow and leave the house and say he's going to rehab. He may wait until 5 years from now to make that decision. The thing is.... how long will you let the emotional rollercoaster continue? If no one draws the line... then the madness of addiction will continue. The addict will not draw that line.

I completely understand your situation and feel your pain. I had to kick my RABF out of my house when I found out he was using. I know it may sound harsh to some but I didn't care where he went when I kicked him out. He had no where to go but to the streets or rehab. He chose rehab and has been there ever since. I'm not saying that my actions caused him to go to rehab and I didn't have control over this..... I'm saying that I didn't want to be involved in his chaos and that was a choice I had to make for myself not him.

Hope this helps.