Am I doing more harm to myself by staying?

[rmm]

I don't know what to do and the more I read here, the more I see myself in so many of you- particularly those who have chosen to leave.

I feel NOTHING but hurt and anger and resentment toward my husband. I can't look him in the eye because I just see the man I thought I knew and who I loved intensely and I don't feel that way anymore.

I don't know how or what words to use to explain clearly to him how his drinking (which he doesn't think is that serious and he thinks I'm exagerrating the effect it has had on "us") has killed most of what used to exist between us. I don't know how to begin to tell him why I don't want to stay right now.

He doesn't hurt me physically, he doesn't scream and yell, but the words he says in a calm voice are hurtful as any screaming or hitting. He's apathetic about everything in life, he doesn't seem to want to make changes (he stopped drinking but doesn't want to see a counselor, or go to AA so his personality is still the same as when he drinks). I am beginning to reflect on our life together and realize that most of the great talks we've had, most of the times I recall having fun in the past few yrs with him have been times when alcohol has been involved. I'm not sure what there is between us without alcohol.

I think that if I were not here he would have to choose whether to get better or not. Right now he seems to think that he can act however he wants b/c I will stay no matter what.

I am tired of being sad and lonely all the time. I don't know if or when any spark will come back between us and I live my life waiting for the few good moments we have.

Would it be better for all involved (we have 2 young girls) for us to be separate while he chooses whether or not to fully invest in his recovery? I am leaning toward thinking that it would. It seems to me that for as long as he knows I am here, there's no real incentive to do the hard, soul searching work that he needs to. I've been sitting for the past week just waiting for him to talk to me about his plans for recovery, or to ask for help, or to show any indication that he is consumed by this even half as much as I am. So far I've gotten nothing. He wants to just chat about the weather and try to play "normal" and all I can do is wonder what the hell is going on with him, whether he wants to get better, whether he even sees that he needs help and how to keep my sanity and perhaps find happiness somehow for myself again.

But then when I feel certain that leaving temporarily would be best, I think to myself-- what would everyone else think? how do i explain how a non-violent, financially supportive, responsible man is someone i am leaving?

I have no idea what to do....

[bookwyrm]

(((rmm)))

Whatever you decide, please make sure you're doing what is best for you and your children. You say that you want to leave so he can finally do the soul searching you think he needs to do. What if you leave and he doesn't change? What if he changes and doesn't want you back? What if he changes yet relapses when you return?

Your post is all about how you want him to do this or that and how you want his recovery to be. What is happening with your own recovery? How far have you gotten with letting go? You still seemed so focused on controlling him.

Its time for you to try some of that soul searching yourself. What has been your role in making this situation? What can you do to make your life better? Remember, you can only control YOU. If you want to live in an alcohol free environment, then leave - but it would be foolish to rely on this to 'make' your AH do what you want. My STBXAH soon found a 'replacement' enabler. But I am living a better life without him in it. I am happier (though I have my good days and bad days). Trying to 'make' him do ANYTHING drove me insane and I'm well out of it!

Have you read the sticky posts? Have you read 'Co Dependent No More' by Melody Beattie? Have you tried Al Anon? Counselling?

Again, what other people think is none of your business - you can't control that either! Why should you have to answer to 'everyone else'? The only person you have to answer to is you. Try and keep the focus on you. Let all the worrying on your AH go. Its not easy to do, but it is so worth it! I remember walking on eggshells/screaming the place down/crying/driving myself nuts trying to get my STBXAH to 'see'. Putting down the responsibility I had assumed for him and letting him stand (or fall) on his own two feet was such a relief! Letting go of trying to control the uncontrollable, once I got the hang of it (and I still slip sometimes), was so liberating! If I can do it, you can too!

[cmc]

Hi rmm,

It seems to me that for as long as he knows I am here, there's no real incentive to do the hard, soul searching work that he needs to

If I make any decision with an agenda that it will affect someone else's recovery- then I am expecting an outcome that is unrealistic.

how do i explain how a non-violent, financially supportive, responsible man is someone i am leaving?

Remove the alcohol from the equation, and ask yourself the same question; and furthermore- why would you need to explain it to anyone? It's your life and your decision, not anyone else's.

[laurie6781]

But then when I feel certain that leaving temporarily would be best, I think to myself-- what would everyone else think? how do i explain how a non-violent, financially supportive, responsible man is someone i am leaving?

IRRECONCILABLE DIFFERENCES

That is a full and complete answer to all who 'wonder.' It really is NONE OF THEIR BUISINESS.

Yes, I do believe you will be doing yourself and your children 'harm' by staying at this point.

Please check out the Adult Children of A's forums and do some reading to see how it affects a child into adult hood.

By staying, what are you teaching your children.

Oh, I am not suggesting the D word right now, but a legal separation would probably do you and the children a lot of good, and give you 'time' from afar, to watch his ACTIONS, not his words. Give you time to work on YOU. Should you decide that this is what you need then go far. However, please do not have expectations that this will 'make him see the light.' Whatever action you take, please make sure it is for you and the children.

J M H O

Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing as we do care so very much.

Love and hugs,

[Trying2survive]

You decide to leave when the ever-present question "what am I doing here?" gets answered somewhere in the back of your soul. With the answer comes clarity.

When I looked at my AH, all I could see was a bottle of vodka, so much so I nicknamed him "mr. smirnoff" - and still refer to him by that name. When our world came tumbling down, and the ship was sinking - I realized I had to jump or go down with it.

Just so you know, there is lots of help out there for us survivors.

[Ceridwen]

Originally Posted by laurie6781

IRRECONCILABLE DIFFERENCES

I say "musical differences" with a wry smile. sort of lets them know its none of their business.

Before I could initiate a seperation I had to allow myself to act for my own good. I, in all honesty never wanted to do it for his good, to allow him space etc, to give him time to think, but I felt that I was only allowed to make a decision of this magnitude if it were for the benefit of others, for their own good. It seemed unbeleivably selfish to do what was best for me, especially if others were hurt.

But a counsellor helped me learn that I am important, I am allowed to be happy, and happy right now. I don't have to give one* more last chance, I can do what is best for me.

Decisions became lots less complicated when I concentrated on what was best for myself and the children and stopped making decisions based soley on my predictions of their possible effect on a grown adult's choices and feelings and behaviour.

what do you think would be best for you


*(to the power infinity)

[rmm]

Just to clarify-- I wouldn't leave to try to force his hand to do something I want him to do. I am questioning whether to stay or leave because I am not sure that I have enough strength to stay. I can't just stop trying to "fix" him and I feel like as long as I am here with him that's an impossible battle within myself. I think that I might need to be separate from him in order to stop trying to control what he does or doesn't do. It is eating away at me to try and say nothing, to try and be happy in a lonely marriage and I don't really see the point in staying simply to stay. Right now I am staying because I am afraid of the uncertainty of what leaving means.

[TakingCharge999]

How do i explain how a non-violent, financially supportive, responsible man is someone i am leaving?

1 You owe NO explanations

2 Non-violent? He says words that hurt you. That IS violence. Responsible? Someone who numbs his problems away does not seem responsible to me.

((rmm) if you are afraid and willing to make fear your Personal God, you can always stay.... and feel how you are feeling the whole month, this year, until year 2015, or until your last days on this Earth... that is what you have now and is as good as it gets...

Read GiveLove's posts, Freedom's posts, LaTeeDa's posts.... they left, dettached from the active alcoholics in their lives... to me they are quite happy, relaxed and content. Even myself, granted I still feel totally defeated many times, but I can tell you, right now I am alone in my apartment listening to the birds chirping after a storm, no one is criticizing me, no one is insulting me, and the only eggshells around are the ones after I cook my favorite breakfast (french toast).

This is priceless.

There is no reason you can't get the same serenity and build the life you always imagined for yourself.

[rmm]

You are absolutely right. I just need to decide and act. I fully admit that I am letting fear and uncertainty rule me right now. I just wonder if I'm making more of all of this than is necessary. Maybe it's not so bad and I'm just expecting something unreasonable?

[Bernadette]

I just wonder if I'm making more of all of this than is necessary. Maybe it's not so bad and I'm just expecting something unreasonable?

It's a fairly common result of living with an alcoholic to minimize the kinds of things that to anyone outside of the alcoholic relationship would appear unacceptable and insane. And sadly, alcoholism is a progressive disease, it only gets worse and more intense, not better.

My dad was an alcoholic. Never lost his job or had a DUI. But I learned a lot of really bad ways to handle my emotions as a child growing up w/ an alcoholic father and a codie mom.

I learned to minimize people's unacceptable behavior.
I learned to be ashamed.
I learned to deny reality.
I learned that my parents were total hypocrites, and that they lied to themselves, to each other, to us, and to the outside world.
I learned, from mom, that what other people thought of us was more important than what was really going on.

I could go on.
I've left those things behind thanks to AlAnon and therapy. But not until I recreated perfectly the dynamic of my parent's marriage (minus the alcohol - I thought I was so clever - but I married an irresponsibiliholic! Who I was certain if i just showed him the error of his ways he would "get it" and get help and be the man I thought he should be! I am very happily divorced needless to say!)

I sure do wish someone in my childhood had the guts to call it what it was: alcoholism. And to let me know that the way my parents behaved wasn't healthy and wasn't how it HAD to be.

I hope you can do the right thing by your kids and be in reality with them. If my memories are any indication they know much more than you realize and at an earlier age than you think. I was aware in 1st grade of my dad's drinking problem and my mom's problem with my dad's drinking problem.

All that energy my mother put in to maintaining the illusion of a normal family - wow! because it was not based in reality it came to no good.

Your post asked if you are doing more harm by staying? Only you can answer that for yourself - I just hope that whether you stay or go you get the issue out in the open for your kids when they are older so they won't be ashamed and so they know they have one reliable truth-telling sober parent who sees what they see.

peace-
b

[luciddreamrgrl]

But then when I feel certain that leaving temporarily would be best, I think to myself-- what would everyone else think? how do i explain how a non-violent, financially supportive, responsible man is someone i am leaving?

That same statement could have come directly from my mouth. This is exactly what I said to myself before I left. That statement is why I'm having such a hard time now.

I'm not going to lie to you. It's very hard. But at least you are a step in front of me. At least you realize that you are done with it. That the same type of love isn't there anymore. I still loved my XABF very much. I left because I knew the madness would never end. I left because I knew how much it would effect my child. I left because I looked at his own child, and how messed up she is becoming due to his drinking, and knew I had to get out.

Making responsible decisions for your child IS important. It DOES make sense, and guess what? EVERYONE ELSE WOULD SAY IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

Look at all these people here supporting you! We have all been there. We understand better than the people on the "outside". If something doesn't feel right, deep down inside, then it's not right. Reguardless of violence, or jobs or any other excuse you can make for a person who is dependent on alcohol. You deserve better and so do your children.

It may be hard now. Trust me I know. But one day, when you leave, you will look back and say.... THANK GOD I DID THAT.

Hang in there. It gets better.

Light and Love,

Sarah

[Wascally Wabbit]

It's a hard decision to make.
Why not invite him to counseling? If he refuses perhaps you could tell him how he hurts you and you don't want to live in a hurtful atmosphere.

[MaryUK]

Originally Posted by rmm

I just wonder if I'm making more of all of this than is necessary. Maybe it's not so bad and I'm just expecting something unreasonable?

That's how I keep feeling too. I listen to friends talk about their husbands and they all moan about aspects of them. No-one's perfect. BUT I never bring up my hubands drinking in these coversations (usually complain about his failure to complete DIY jobs!). It's too "big" a problem - too shameful, not just a subject for a chat but something to be "dealt with". IF you see what I mean.

I think we both know what we're wanting is not unreasonable. It's easier to see when you're talking about someone else's problem. I keep thinking that I would be devastated to think of one of my daughters ending up in this sort of relationship.

[praiseHim]

I'm struggling with a lot of these same issues right now. I'm dragging my feet and minimizing things and blaming myself. Hugs.